MS say 360 can be this generation’s PS2

[Zeus]

Microsoft executive Jeff Bell believes that they are positioning the 360 to make it this generations PS2. He also believes people will graduate from Wii to the Xbox 360 because it's limited on the type of gameplay that's available and the technology inside of the Wii.

<center><img src="http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/xbths.jpg"></center></a>


“We very much are positioning ourselves to be the choice console of this generation, much like the PS2 was in the last generation.

"[That's] Great value for money from a price standpoint, all of the games that you want to play, a huge variety of games, and now, not only a DVD, but the ability with Xbox Live to have great community relationships, as well as downloadable television shows and movies - not only here, but around the world.

“We're positioning ourselves to be ready if, in fact, gamers find they're ready to graduate from a certain experience potentially with the Wii, either because it's limited on the type of gameplay that's available or the technology in that box.”


News Source: <a href="http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29466/Microsoft-360-can-be-this-generations-PS2" target=_blank">mcv</a>

[MadMax31]

...(waiting for some idiot to come up with the RROD issue :rolleyes:)

[yusky03]

This is true but I don't have to like it. :D

[mironicus]

After the next price drop, maybe (with GTA 4).

[danight]

It could be, but its not likely to be. The ps2 had the best game line up (360 does to) fair price (360 has that also). But the ps2 didnt have issues with gamecube. The wii is a whole nother beast in itself even if at heart its a pimped out cube. Wii could very well run away with this gen just because of demand for the console. I just don't think there will be a clear winner like last gen. The 360 followed in the ps2 footprints and Microsoft used sonys playbook play for play to make the 360 just like the ps2. While sony went more the other direction worring about dvd formats and high prices.

Nintendo will have to drop the ball for Microsoft be copy what the ps2 did overall. That doesn't look like it will happen. As long as demand stays high, more and more 3rd parties will eventually flock to the wii because thats where the money trail leads. While the 360 also has a nice money trail from actualy games sold. The wii has a bigger install base.

[LastinFirstout]

hahahaha we can all dream. :D


so far :

wii in number 1

ps3 in number 2

the box in number 3


comparing both the PS3 & the BOX for the exact period they have been out for.;)

even though the BOX didn't have any competition for almost 16 months the PS3 still sold more :eek: :p

[Zilluss]

The Ps2 didn't have this funny RRODs :rolleyes: No just kidding I own one by myself^^. I don't think there'll be anything like the PS2 it's just too late even for the Wii I guess...

EDIT: LaL Ps3 Number 2 :rolleyes:

[legendofphil]

Their one to talk about limited types of gameplay.

[EliteStance]

Nothing against the 360, but yet again a marketing remark sounds dumb. Where do MS, Sony, etc. get these guys? Can't they hire someone who can come across as sensible and confident without desperately trying to take sideswipes at competitors?

Particularly more successful competitors. Didn't he go to the marketing class that states you don't mention more successful competitors in relation to your own product?

Oh, and unless it's escaped his attention the Wii is rapidly becoming this gen's PS2 - you know the less powerful, more popular console with casual gamers and families?

[sigma8]

I'm not entirely sure why the PS2 was so successful, but I'm pretty sure it was because it was cheap--later in its lifecycle. It also had a lot of mass appeal type games, like Singstar and Dance Dance.

I do know of a few people (they aren't friends of mine, but I hear about this through a coworker) who are trying to virally spread the gospel of Xbox360, by trying to convince my coworker to get one so they can play online game together, so obviously the whole "community" thing works on some level.

However, I don't think the PS2's success was due to being online (it barely was) and I'm not sure "community" will drive the 360 into the hearts and minds of people everywhere. I think one of Microsoft's fatal flaws, is that it's too obviously trying to make money. You've got a console that comes pretty much bare bones, and adding functionality is disproportionately expensive compared to its competition. You've got them charging for this online "community". They're spending a lot of time and effort on their "marketplace" where all they want you to do is spend money.

I mean, Sony wants the same thing, but for better or worse, they're not very good at it.

I think, in the end, all the consumer wants is a gaming console that is as inexpensive as possible, easy to use, and does everything they want it to do. Xbox360 could very well be that console, but based on how they handle things now, I suspect they are going to be a little too selfish in terms of trying to their their hands in people's wallets on an ongoing, recurrent basis. Plus, I think for the average Wii owner, the dashboard is a bit complex.

Plus, and I don't really hold this against them in the long term--as long as they fix it--they really need to get that crap about transferring your purchases between 360's straightened out. As long as their failure rate is what it is, and you can't easily move your "possessions" to your replacement console, they're not going to be the next PS2.

[TheReality]

The Xbox 360 has the same destiny as the Atari Jaguard, Sega 32X and 3DO :(

[grapeape]

I dont really see the Wii as a "gateway" console. Most of the folks I know that have bought the Wii are either former gamecube owners or people who havent bought a console in generations if ever due to their percieved complexity. Those in the former are Nintendo fans and probably will be for life, those in the later enjoy the simplicity but that also carries over into the games they buy. My parents arent going to buy Zelda, Metroid, Mario or even Smash Brothers but they buy the hell out of any and all mini game collections.

I dont see them suddenly waking up and deciding they need to play Halo or Final Fantasy. Frankly they are the type as are many of the new Wii market that would be satisfied supporting the console for the next 20 years if Nintendo supported it that long.

[Jongamer]

no I don't think so.

Wii has already sold millions more than the 360, and is projected to sell over 100million. (Sold, not shipped like PS2, but I don't doubt that it sold over 100million)


The PS2 also had a ton of shi**y games too, so you can't count the Wii out of being the PS2 this generation because of games.

[grd94533]

That's funny. Microsoft comparing their latest system to Sony's old sytem.

[grapeape]

The Xbox 360 has the same destiny as the Atari Jaguard, Sega 32X and 3DO :(

Sorry Mastegeek but it already passed those hurdles a few weeks after launch...

Atari Jaguar sold less than 400,000
3DO sold less than 2 million
Sega 32X sold less than 200,000

You should really try to put more effort into your trolling...perhaps for Morocco comments or better yet maybe actually looking into the acuracy of the crap that spews from your head.

:rolleyes:

[danight]

That's funny. Microsoft comparing their latest system to Sony's old sytem.

why wouldn't they? The ps2 is one of the best consoles ever for gamers. The ps2 still outsells the ps3. The ps2 set the standard for what all 3 companies wish to achieve if not surpass.

[superaktieboy]

...(waiting for some idiot to come up with the RROD issue :rolleyes:)

ermm aren't you the first one to do that?


anyways..
this is highly unlikely, if it was the DS or Wii, it was likely but i don't/can't believe the xbox 360 winning the generation.. first of its too early to say.. second, Xbox 360 is loosing ground whereas ps3 is gaining and Wii still going!! (check vgchartz) soo highly unlikely.. i say (just like alot of analysts) that it will be Wii on no 1, PS3 no 2 and 360 last..

sorry but the only thing atm i like on xbox is Mass Effect, Halo 3 and BioShock, which is not enough for me to convert to xbox, i know there are other 'good' exclusives, but i don't like most of them... as i said before, ME, H3 and BS are the only ones that can convert me.. and since ME can also come on PS3 and most defo will come on PC, and BS is already on PC, i am not going to change to 360 only for Halo ... Halo Wars will come on PC and Xbox 360 which is good for me :)


greeetzz

[kcvfr400]

No chance of this happening with wii sales as they are and even the ps3 is picking up nicely now.

But hardware sales aside where are the games for kids and casual games that the ps2 had loads of. There is nothing like singstar or eyetoy on 360 to create a new audience and they don't even have motion controls so very hard to see them bringing in much of a new audience to what bought the xbox before it. So far all the 360 games have been games aimed at the pc gamer or so called hardcore console gamer.

Its only the quality of a few games that stand out for the 360 and that will disappear as their head start is caught by the quality of the ps3 and wii releases in the near future.

[LastinFirstout]

The Xbox 360 has the same destiny as the Atari Jaguard, Sega 32X and 3DO :(

QFT, i 100% agree the box might have sold few millions so far but there are factors why like piracy,no competition for over 1 year & the facts why i think it will end up the same as the Atari & Sega is RROD,Lack of great games compared to Sony & Ninty , expensive accessories & charging for a dodgy online gaming & lets not forget that microsoft is keeping it going now on $1 billion life support extended warranty otherwise it would be a history a long time ago .

[ando2k5]

QFT, i 100% agree the box might have sold few millions so far but there are factors why like piracy,no competition for over 1 year & the facts why i think it will end up the same as the Atari & Sega is RROD,Lack of great games compared to Sony & Ninty , expensive accessories & charging for a dodgy online gaming & lets not forget that microsoft is keeping it going now on $1 billion life support extended warranty otherwise it would be a history a long time ago .

idiot fanboy repeating the same old sh!t over and over get something new to say instead of being stuck on repeat idiot!

[ando2k5]

No chance of this happening with wii sales as they are and even the ps3 is picking up nicely now.

But hardware sales aside where are the games for kids and casual games that the ps2 had loads of. There is nothing like singstar or eyetoy on 360 to create a new audience and they don't even have motion controls so very hard to see them bringing in much of a new audience to what bought the xbox before it. So far all the 360 games have been games aimed at the pc gamer or so called hardcore console gamer.

Its only the quality of a few games that stand out for the 360 and that will disappear as their head start is caught by the quality of the ps3 and wii releases in the near future.

quality wii releases haha what a joke take a look at half of the games for the wii and future releases there aimed at 2 year olds

[kcvfr400]

quality wii releases haha what a joke take a look at half of the games for the wii and future releases there aimed at 2 year olds

ok I was being both optimistic and generous about the quality of the wii releases. Surely they can't get any worse lol.

[lenitao]

poor man......is he just saying this to make himself seem stupid.....

i think it's:

1.Wii
2.Ps3
3.Xbox360

[danight]

No chance of this happening with wii sales as they are and even the ps3 is picking up nicely now.

But hardware sales aside where are the games for kids and casual games that the ps2 had loads of. There is nothing like singstar or eyetoy on 360 to create a new audience and they don't even have motion controls so very hard to see them bringing in much of a new audience to what bought the xbox before it. So far all the 360 games have been games aimed at the pc gamer or so called hardcore console gamer.

Its only the quality of a few games that stand out for the 360 and that will disappear as their head start is caught by the quality of the ps3 and wii releases in the near future.

ummmm ever heard of rock band? As far as quality of games. All 3 will only get better. As devs learn tricks with the sdk and from actually programming on the box. The games will only get better for all 3 systems. Now that being said. The xbox 360 has the most potential here since it came out first and devs have had great success on the xbox 360. many and many games have broke the 1 million sales mark. Yes i know halo3 and gears of war etc etc all had super great sales. But im talking games that dont get mentioned as much like blue-dragon and eternal sonata. The xbox 360 has a easy to use sdk, its dev freindly, the console has a great attachment rate, the console is a known producer for games to sell over 1 million copies, it also is easy to port to pc.

the ps3 games sales generally suck compared to xbox 360 counterparts. The sdk is harder to use and it shows in delays or bugs in the games. The ps3 with the smallest user base and low attachment rates is the biggest gamble for 3rd party devs to make a game for. Now thats not to say the ps3 games wont get better as well. Its just normal that games get better in time.

[sigma8]

The ps2 still outsells the ps3.

Wrong yet again. PS2 only outsold the PS3 during 1 of out of the last 9 weeks.

http://tinyurl.com/2n5lny

[NexusBurst]

17 million sales and only 600k sold in japan. Lack of japanese studio support. Not able to double own sales in the first two years. Year to year the wii is crushing the 360 and the ps3 is sustaining a rate to double its own sales by november 08.

Software attach rate the 360 could be considered as successful as the ps2 but it needs to sustain this for a few more years and keep selling once the 360 is replaced. MS cannot be positioning the 360 to be like the ps2 because it's just not widely accepted. Win over square and konami then we'll talk.

[kcvfr400]

ummmm ever heard of rock band? As far as quality of games. All 3 will only get better. As devs learn tricks with the sdk and from actually programming on the box. The games will only get better for all 3 systems. Now that being said. The xbox 360 has the most potential here since it came out first and devs have had great success on the xbox 360. many and many games have broke the 1 million sales mark. Yes i know halo3 and gears of war etc etc all had super great sales. But im talking games that dont get mentioned as much like blue-dragon and eternal sonata. The xbox 360 has a easy to use sdk, its dev freindly, the console has a great attachment rate, the console is a known producer for games to sell over 1 million copies, it also is easy to port to pc.

the ps3 games sales generally suck compared to xbox 360 counterparts. The sdk is harder to use and it shows in delays or bugs in the games. The ps3 with the smallest user base and low attachment rates is the biggest gamble for 3rd party devs to make a game for. Now thats not to say the ps3 games wont get better as well. Its just normal that games get better in time.

Rock band is a good game but the price alone makes it a niche purchase. Also its available on ps3 so not a reason for a casual gamer to buy a 360 unlike the playstation eye and new buzz game and of course singstar that are exclusives to ps3. Even Nintendo has taken some of its inspiration for wii from these titles and the audience they bring in thats a huge untapped mass market. I see the 360 doing nothing to capture any of that market at all so it will end in 3rd place.

[LastinFirstout]

idiot fanboy repeating the same old sh!t over and over get something new to say instead of being stuck on repeat idiot!

the old sh!t is still the same sh!t nothing has changed.:rolleyes:

fagbot!

[nambit]

The PS2 this generation? That's BS. The PS2 is more than just this generation.
It was a juggernaut that is the #1 selling console of all time. Sure, the 360 has
a lot of games, but it doesn't have as much of a wide variety of games like the
PS2 did. I am not talking about having games that satisfy all genres, I'm talking
about having lots of games for each genre, and a few that seem to defy genres
(ie: Shadow Of The Colossus, Ico, etc) and brings it to the forefront. It's a
whole lot more than just having Japanese developers onside too. It's a whole
lot more than PC-inspired games as well. Heck, it's gotta be #1 in every region
by a large margin before it even comes close. They can declare all they want,
the 360 is no PS2 in that respect. Also, to 'graduate' from the wii? These folks
need to respect that there are different tastes. Just because someone has the
wii doesn't mean they'll go for the 360. Don't expect casual gamers to just
move on. Only core videogamers might.

The 360 will do well this generation, I am not disputing that. But to compare it
to the most popular console in all time is stretching things a whole lot. The PS2
is still selling, and it's gone beyond the 120 million mark... something unheard of
for a home console... heck, even for handhelds:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6181828.html

Sorry, but the 360 is not that.

[crypysmoker]

....... MS failed to also comment on out of this generation or any other generation of consoles, why their 360 console has had more manufacturing defects and returns then any other console ever made combined.




I would rather play my ps2 and dreamcast for 8 hours a day then spend $400 on a 360 that lets me play 20 min then explodes

[JouDoos]

I believe the wii is a fad. Just like tamagotchi, furby, pokèmon...

[danight]

Rock band is a good game but the price alone makes it a niche purchase. Also its available on ps3 so not a reason for a casual gamer to buy a 360 unlike the playstation eye and new buzz game and of course singstar that are exclusives to ps3. Even Nintendo has taken some of its inspiration for wii from these titles and the audience they bring in thats a huge untapped mass market. I see the 360 doing nothing to capture any of that market at all so it will end in 3rd place.

Actually xbox 360 has scene it :) which is exclusive and is like the buzz game. While rockband is on the ps3. Rockband on the xbox 360 can use gh2 guitars :) making it a cheap pick if you all ready own 2 guitars. You can even do like me and buy a ps2 singstar mike for like 10 dollars and it works on the xbox 360 :). So while both the ps3 and xbox 360 have that game the 360 still is the cheaper choice.
But the ps3 also does not tap into the wii market any better than the xbox 360 does. Look at game sales. The wii is just a different beast in itself and it was ment to be that way. The ps3 is more targeted to trying to be like the xbox 360 rather than be like the wii.

[sigma8]

All 3 will only get better. As devs learn tricks with the sdk and from actually programming on the box.
Maybe true for the Wii and PS3, but the Xbox360 already had that year headstart. 360 devs should know a year's worth of more tricks and cool SDK things already. This point of yours is not an Xbox360 advantage, compared to its competitors.

More reasons why it's not an Xbox360 advantage:
- 360 is based off of more firmly established architectures, PPC + DirectX, thus things are better known. Generally, this is a GOOD thing. I mean, it is a good thing. But if you're looking for things to magically get better as time goes on, it's not as conducive to that.
- PS3 is built on a completely new architecture..which sucks for early development, but means it will have a more noticeable improvement curve. I mean, this is generally a BAD thing, because you don't want to start out "weak"...however if you are looking for things to get better over time, it'll do that.
- Wii is based on an old architecture, but that is not its focus. With the Wii, you have programmers who are like "pff, I know this" but you have game designers who are still designing games for the gamecube, and have zero talent in utilizing the Wii's unique input system. The improvement curve for the Wii will not be graphics, but it will be making games with controls that are innovative and don't suck.

The games will only get better for all 3 systems. Now that being said. The xbox 360 has the most potential here since it came out first and devs have had great success on the xbox 360. many and many games have broke the 1 million sales mark.
The fact that it has done so well implies that the product has reached maturity and is reaching its plateau. This is a standard product lifecycle. The 360 has LESS potential for future improvement, BECAUSE it came out first. Generally, "improvement" has diminishing returns over time. The first year will see the most improvement--compare 360 launch titles with Gears of War. The second year will have less improvement, the third year even less, etc.. Can you even note any big improvements in xmas 2007's games over xmas 2006's? I'm thinking Gears of War versus Halo3. Where are the technological improvements? They can tweak some gameplay, of course. That's a good thing. Spyro 2 was better than Spyro 1 on the original Playstation...because they used their experience as designers to make a more interesting game. The tech was identical.

The xbox 360 has a easy to use sdk, its dev freindly, the console has a great attachment rate, the console is a known producer for games to sell over 1 million copies, it also is easy to port to pc.
Ease of development is good. That said, anything that becomes popular will become easy to develop for, through middleware. The PS2 was perhaps hard to develop for in the beginning, but now it's a cakewalk. That's not because it's any easier, but because you can license things like Criterion's rendering engine. You can just buy pre-built stuff to make your development much easier.

I mean, this is in effect on the 360, too. Maybe it is easier to develop for, but does it matter when a company is licensing the Unreal engine for both the 360 and PS3 versions of its games? It doesn't matter if the 360 is easier...they're only going to need to know how to make a game in the Unreal engine.

the ps3 games sales generally suck compared to xbox 360 counterparts.
I feel I've disproved this with ample hard evidence. I'm not even going to bother now, as I know you've been in those threads. Suffice it to say that on a per capita basis, actual sales data does not back you up.

The sdk is harder to use and it shows in delays or bugs in the games. The ps3 with the smallest user base and low attachment rates is the biggest gamble for 3rd party devs to make a game for.
I've also demonstrated in other threads that attachment rate is not much of an issue for PS3. It has good attachment rates. Better than the 360 on some multiplatform games (like Assassin's Creed, and Fifa).

I don't think any of us can really intelligently state that the SDK itself is harder or easier. Do you have any first hand experience with it whatsoever? What we do know, is that the Xbox360 uses DirectX api's. DirectX has existed in Windows for years, and is a well-known, well-documented API. There is a lot of existing talent that knows how to use this API.

The PS3 is using less common API's, like OpenGL (which is well-documented, but less popular), and several newer ones as well. There are a lot less developers that know this stuff.

Is this because it's harder? Maybe. Can't say! However, I think it's safe to say that if you get a bunch of DirectX developers and ask them to make something in OpenGL, it's going to be more difficult for them. It's not an issue of the SDK being hard, it's an issue of developers being unfamiliar with something new.

I don't know if you do much programming, but even obtusely designed languages are easier than logically designed ones, if you're more familiar with the obtuse one.

[msa]

no, the 360 cant be this generations ps2, because the wii already is.

[danight]

sigma8, very good post and very good comebacks. We could probably argue sales and manipulate numbers to make both of us seem correct. But for now its nice to see 2 opposing views that both do make sense on and hit on some good points.

But one point i will debate is gears of war. Now i think bioshock is a fair comparison as well as ut3 for pc,ps3 (soon to be 360) vs halo3. I think bioshock did prove that gears was not pushing the 360 to its limits and more could be done. Lets also note that bioshock was one of the best pc games of the year as well. Now ut3 is more a comparison to halo3. both multiplayer games at heart. But H3 did have a sp game and ut3 pretty much had a story mode bot match. Now is that to say a great mp game cant have a great sp in it? No. But like gears raised the bar for sp and added mp (ut3 didnt make the bar that epic set in gears) , bioshock raised it further in just sp. Now you wont see bioshock looking maps, with gears of war characters in a game called ut because that really is unreal.
But like r6:vegas 2 and gears 2 and even bioshock 2 or even saints row 2. Gamers expect the sequels to get better. COD4 proved it still can happen. So i disagree that the 360 has peaked and actually think the 360 is right side by side with pc games (except for crysis of course). But i think if there is a ut4 there is now way it wont be better than ut3.
We could go on and on of franchise titles that only got better and there will be those who argue older version where the best ones. But it still doesnt disprove that the future is bright when you think games like gears of war 2, bioshock 2, saints row 2, guitar hero 4, dmc4, gta4 or for ps3 owners mgs4 proves the same point. I dont think we see a concole peak out until around 4-5 years now just because of how much power is under the 360 and ps3 hood. Now the wii is the same way just not power but controls. It will only get better.

[Ozma1968]

The Xbox360 IS the new PS2...

They upgraded the "Disc Read Error" to the RROD. A whole lot of BOTH consoles sales are replacement consoles. If you bought any amount of games and the console dies....you buy another SAME console....so little Johnny can play the games without having to rebuy them on another console. The only reason I do not have an XBox360 is because of the RROD. The console has been around long enough that that issue should have become a NON-ISSUE by now. It also kills MS that a lot of it's good games can be played on a PC with the XBox360 controller no less.

[kpn]

cool i agree

[Jinx13378]

While I truly think of PS3 as of the next gamecube (in terms of popularity and attatchment rate), I can't really see why they are trying to compete with the Wii.

Wii is an alternative or an addition to either PS3 or 360.
No way to compare both.

[Skyline34]

The 360 is in a completely different league... failing.

[croatoan]

...(waiting for some idiot to come up with the RROD issue :rolleyes:)

:D If its the new ps2 then it surely cant have those issues.....................more likely the ps3 will be the ps2 of this generation.....................eventually.

For the time being 360 is still king.

On the average user has 7 games posts? Does this include live titles?

I own all three and in terms of favourites, I like the ps3 and wii. 360 is a great machine but owning a top end pc really limits the number of worthwhile 360 games to a small number....................funny enough down to about the same amount of games that the ps3 has!

[Jongamer]

I believe the wii is a fad. Just like tamagotchi, furby, pokèmon...

Last time I checked, Pokemon was still one of the Best selling games on the DS, definatly not a fad, just because you grew out of it doesn't mean it was a fad.
Personally I grew out of Pokemon, havnt played a Pokemon game since LeafGreen, and I never really play more than a few hours of it total.

The Wii still has Brawl and Mario Kart to boost its sales, remember Melee was the main reason people bought a Cube, well at least during the last half of its life, and that Mario Galaxy is the best selling game on the system, hell for this month Galaxy Beat out Major Hardcore games like COD4, and Guitar Hero 3, and Assasin's Creed.

Imagine what numbers Brawl is gonna pull in.

[MadMax31]

ermm aren't you the first one to do that?


Wow you didn't get my point :eek:, you are stupid :p

[switchg3ar]

I just sold my xbox 360 yesterday because of the RROD. I'm sick of sending it in. I think a fair assessment of Microsoft’s xbox is that it’s a crappy console with amazing games.

[Skyline34]

I wonder who removed the Hi-Res photo of the RRoD?

Fucking forum.

[Blazeking]

Maybe true for the Wii and PS3, but the Xbox360 already had that year headstart. 360 devs should know a year's worth of more tricks and cool SDK things already. This point of yours is not an Xbox360 advantage, compared to its competitors.

More reasons why it's not an Xbox360 advantage:
- 360 is based off of more firmly established architectures, PPC + DirectX, thus things are better known. Generally, this is a GOOD thing. I mean, it is a good thing. But if you're looking for things to magically get better as time goes on, it's not as conducive to that.
- PS3 is built on a completely new architecture..which sucks for early development, but means it will have a more noticeable improvement curve. I mean, this is generally a BAD thing, because you don't want to start out "weak"...however if you are looking for things to get better over time, it'll do that.
.

I have to correct you on one thing: The PS3's arch isn't entirely new.
It also uses PPC architecture, I think it can also run PPC64.
The only thing that separates the arch's is Direct-X (The "X" in XBOX: Direct-Xbox).

XBOX used the same production they did in 2001 but just changed little things
and they had a year before PS3 did to get it right. But the rushing lead to non-os problems that they overlooked.

But one thing: 360 this generations PS2? Why on earth would you want to go backwards? Why think "last-gen"? Because the PS2 stomped the XBOX, and I thought the custom soundtracks, HDD, and pay online service would have kept it around much longer than it was. Guess I was wrong. The original Box had more of a chance of being this generations PS2. I actually liked the box back then, except the Duke controller:confused:

[sigma8]

But like r6:vegas 2 and gears 2 and even bioshock 2 or even saints row 2. Gamers expect the sequels to get better. COD4 proved it still can happen. So i disagree that the 360 has peaked and actually think the 360 is right side by side with pc games (except for crysis of course). But i think if there is a ut4 there is now way it wont be better than ut3.
Was Bioshock really better looking than Gears of War? They're both using the Unreal engine, aren't they? I think Bioshock used more interesting design, but is that a function of squeezing more out of the Xbox360? I don't think so. That's just using a wider variety of textures, and creating interesting architecture.

You can have a game improve without really "pushing the system" more than its predecessors. Look at God of War 2 versus God of War. Sure there may be some minor technological improvements, but in general, the best improvement is that the game itself is more interesting.

Compare/contrast with Tenchu 1 and Tenchu 2 on the PS1. Tenchu 2 should have been able to benefit from more refined programming technique, right? Maybe it did...but the game as a whole was inferior. They just made some really stupid design decisions.

Please try to separate "console" advancements from "game" advancements. I mean, Halo1 with its two-weapon at a time inventory system...that was a big gameplay advancement...but it wasn't really a demonstration of the prowess of the console. Likewise, Gears' amazing graphics were a good demonstration of improved results from coding efforts. Gears' implementation of its hide/cover gameplay mechanic made it a better game, but did not demonstrate improved programming efficiency.

[danight]

Was Bioshock really better looking than Gears of War? They're both using the Unreal engine, aren't they? I think Bioshock used more interesting design, but is that a function of squeezing more out of the Xbox360? I don't think so. That's just using a wider variety of textures, and creating interesting architecture.
.

But if that was the case then was is ut3 not as good as gears or bioshock or r6:vegas (all games based off unreal 3 engine). I think when you can get a game to be as nice as bioshock, then you are pushing it. I would say it compare to running a pc with a low end video card. Yes you still get the great bioshock game but because of the hardware your getting a slide show. So to be able to achieve a frame rate thats equal to a high end pc setup, i think does prove the power thats still being used. I mean at heart we could say graphics alone are nothing more than textures. Its just like with unreal 2 engine. You could add some real high res graphics to that but it wouldn't run good. If it was that simple then everyone would have super great looking games.

Like gt5. You think they dont look at forza 2 and go, we have to be better than that! I think multiple studios achieving the high standard or better yet setting a new standard is a testament to the system being pushed and devs still getting better. Like ps2 you know games just aren't gonna look but so good. They sucked and tapped all the juice out of that baby they could. Now when the majority of games reach that standard and cant surpass it. Then ill say its peaked. Then it shows all the tricks have been learned and used. But now i think the bioshock team is sitting around thinking what they could do to surpass what bioshock did. I think they will say "what can we do to make this look even better, run even faster, sound even better" when you combine all that stuff it shows a console that developers have become comfortable working with and can concentrate on the game side instead of trying to figure out how to make it run or load faster.

[SpoonerPSP]

Wrong forum: moved to "Joke of the Day":p

[XxBigP123xX]

Wasn't this said a few months ago:confused:

I just get that feeling:o

[croatoan]

Well now the lame duck xbox 360 HDD drive is a dead duck. Will be very interesting.

Hate to say I told you so ..........................

If anything I am dissapointed in MS, whoever designed the original 360 should be shot..............from an cosmestic point of view.

The 360 was designed by a girl looks wise, the bloke in charge of thermal management had no idea.

Still has some good games

At least the ps3 is well designed, WAS stupidly priced, has the better controller with the................................long awaited rumble. Quieter but less efficient at divx playback despite being proper certified.

FACT: the best thing about the original xbox was XBMC.....................................THATS THE ONLY THING THAT WILL SAVE THE 360.

[88888888]

That's funny. Microsoft comparing their latest system to Sony's old sytem.

lol nice comment :p

[DieselGuy]

......I think one of Microsoft's fatal flaws, is that it's too obviously trying to make money. You've got a console that comes pretty much bare bones, and adding functionality is disproportionately expensive compared to its competition. You've got them charging for this online "community". They're spending a lot of time and effort on their "marketplace" where all they want you to do is spend money. .....

I completely agree with you...I own Three(3) Ps3(two firmware 1.10) and one that updated to current firmware..

I own Three(3) Xbox360 (one Kernel 4548, one BANNED) and one thats updated to current kernel/firmware

I hate Sony AND MS but I have a feeling MS will fail...whenever people ask me what system to get I recommend 1. Wii and 2. PS3...advise them to stay away from Xbox360.

MS wants me to PAY for their stupid XboxLive??? HA!!! never!!

I could NOT download Devil May Cry 4 Demo from XboxLive with my "Silver" account? well I powered up my PS3 and got it!!

I WILL keep my Xbox360 to play "my original backups" HA!! yeah you know...I save my money for systems/hardware.

With their 150meg limit I just read about on XboxLive Arcade games(Castlevania had broken that limit I thought) so SF 2 HD will look better on PS3...guess where I'll buy it from??

I hate sony but MS is the worst of both Evils..their whole notion of "PAY for DEMOs if you want them the first week or GO F yourself" atitude may have worked IF they did NOT have competition.

They want me to pay for HD movie download but they will NOT allow me to upgread my HDD from any HDD from I can purchase at store while SONY encourages you to go and buy a BIGGER hard drive and install it.

MS ripped me off first with their Xbox360 NOT having HDMI, Then banned me, over charge for their 20GB and 120gb HDD KIT.

MS Xbox360 WILL fail if have anything to do with it....people who know me trust my judgement because I've been a gamer for decades...I will always advise them to NOT buy MS craps.

[danight]

You wouldn't happen to be mad you got banned are you :rolleyes:
shame on Microsoft for holding that gun to your head while you flashed your drive or chipped the box, just so they could ban you. :D


sorry but anyone banned,cant blame microsoft for that. They knew bans where gonna happen just like with the orig xbox. People got greedy playing games not even released or released in different regions. They got busted. Everyone who mods knows the risks. That isnt microsofts fault.

[DieselGuy]

You wouldn't happen to be mad you got banned are you :rolleyes:
shame on Microsoft for holding that gun to your head while you flashed your drive or chipped the box, just so they could ban you. :D


sorry but anyone banned,cant blame microsoft for that. They knew bans where gonna happen just like with the orig xbox. People got greedy playing games not even released or released in different regions. They got busted. Everyone who mods knows the risks. That isnt microsofts fault.

Danight you're a MORON...NO I am not mad because they banned me...I bought my Halo3 Edition Xbox360 after being banned and I was happy with the HDMI(non of two previous had HDMI) so EASY for you to ASSuME that I would be upset over that...I AM UPSET BECAUSE THEY WANT TO CHARGE FOR DEMOS you F*CKING MORON AND PSN DOES NOT!!!

You IMMEDIATELY disregarded all my other points and when to the "banned" thing...as you can see I CAN AFFORD MULTIPLE systems OF THE SAME systems so getting banned did not upset at all...I laughed when it happened.

So MY point of being able to UPGRADE a PS3 HDD from ANY store to ANY size you want WHILE the Xbox360 DOES NOT allow you to do that HOLDS NOT relevance? you just decided to point out that I got banned cuase you're a simpleton and could not argue anything else.

Go a head BUY 5 to 10 HD movies from XboxLIVE and see if you $99.99 DOLLARS 20GB hard drive will hold them WITH THE DEMOS they made you get a GOLD XboxLive membership for.

[LeGioN1202]

sigma8, very good post and very good comebacks. We could probably argue sales and manipulate numbers to make both of us seem correct. But for now its nice to see 2 opposing views that both do make sense on and hit on some good points.

But one point i will debate is gears of war. Now i think bioshock is a fair comparison as well as ut3 for pc,ps3 (soon to be 360) vs halo3. I think bioshock did prove that gears was not pushing the 360 to its limits and more could be done. Lets also note that bioshock was one of the best pc games of the year as well. Now ut3 is more a comparison to halo3. both multiplayer games at heart. But H3 did have a sp game and ut3 pretty much had a story mode bot match. Now is that to say a great mp game cant have a great sp in it? No. But like gears raised the bar for sp and added mp (ut3 didnt make the bar that epic set in gears) , bioshock raised it further in just sp. Now you wont see bioshock looking maps, with gears of war characters in a game called ut because that really is unreal.
But like r6:vegas 2 and gears 2 and even bioshock 2 or even saints row 2. Gamers expect the sequels to get better. COD4 proved it still can happen. So i disagree that the 360 has peaked and actually think the 360 is right side by side with pc games (except for crysis of course). But i think if there is a ut4 there is now way it wont be better than ut3.
We could go on and on of franchise titles that only got better and there will be those who argue older version where the best ones. But it still doesnt disprove that the future is bright when you think games like gears of war 2, bioshock 2, saints row 2, guitar hero 4, dmc4, gta4 or for ps3 owners mgs4 proves the same point. I dont think we see a concole peak out until around 4-5 years now just because of how much power is under the 360 and ps3 hood. Now the wii is the same way just not power but controls. It will only get better.

Just curious... but is it possible to name something other than shooters? Some of us, me included don't care at all for these types of games, or Gears for that matter.

Any non shooter games you can speak of? I like Platformers and RPGs... anything worth my time?

I always thought Scene It? was a great idea. I mentioned how great of an idea I thought it was the first day I saw it in Bestbuy. My gripe however is that MS wants people to use LIVE! and branch these casual games and their online service, yet Scene It? has no Online Play... huh? That game would have been great if it had Online.

Also to stay on topic, I do not see how MS could make such a bone headed claim like this when they only have 1... yes 1 territory. They still seem to think the US is the only place on Earth that exists. If you win the US you win the race???? Since when? Last I checked, for about 6+ weeks now 360 has been outsold Worldwide by both the Wii and the PS3.

[msanchez]

You know regardless of what console sells how many units, there won't be another ps2 for quite a while. The ps2 was the console that made gaming cool for so many people; gaming stopped being a hobby for the nerds, geeks, and other social misfits thanks to the ps2. Now it did have it's bunch of crappy games, it did have it's fair share of hardware issues, but then it had other games there were... actually still are, amazing.

All the pretty words about the ps2 aside, in this gen there probably won't be a definitive king. This generation is like the good ol' Sega vs Nintendo figths. As such it's still anyone's race, but in the end they'll probably have to split the throne.

[phallius]

This generation's PS2? That's like saying McCain is a Republican.:eek:

[Gamer87]

Just curious... but is it possible to name something other than shooters? Some of us, me included don't care at all for these types of games, or Gears for that matter.

Any non shooter games you can speak of? I like Platformers and RPGs... anything worth my time?

I always thought Scene It? was a great idea. I mentioned how great of an idea I thought it was the first day I saw it in Bestbuy. My gripe however is that MS wants people to use LIVE! and branch these casual games and their online service, yet Scene It? has no Online Play... huh? That game would have been great if it had Online.

Also to stay on topic, I do not see how MS could make such a bone headed claim like this when they only have 1... yes 1 territory. They still seem to think the US is the only place on Earth that exists. If you win the US you win the race???? Since when? Last I checked, for about 6+ weeks now 360 has been outsold Worldwide by both the Wii and the PS3.

Ditto. I'm sure about half of the current 360 exclusives are shooters. The only way they can reach the success of PS2 is if they release a varied genre line up of games which the PS3 seems to be sorting out for the next two years.

[DEDDOA]

I doubt there will be a "PS2" this generation. Even the Wii probably won't manage it as unless it's software drastically improves, it will continue to become somthing you store next to you Fonduset and sandwich toaster after the novelty wears off (we havn't touched either of ours since October, not even Wii fit or Brain training :( ).

I doubt the 360 will manage it either, as even if MS do manage to fix the RRoD completely (and you would think they would have invested in completely redesigned board development by now so hopefully they can fix the source) the gap bettween it and the PS3 is not really that much (though it is the the same size since the PS3 launch of around 7mill) and even if they maintain the gap it will be comparatively smaller over time. The smae goes for the PS3, it may well have gathered a bit of momentum, but even that just seems to bring it up to 360 sales levels.

I think it would take something outstanding to boost 360 sales, or that of any other console for that matter, to the same levelsa as the PS2. Though for one, I'd say MS doing away with the core are moving the premium into it's price slot would be a start and add wifi (i loathe wireless personally, and use it only on my laptop, but even then I plug in when I can as wifi is to unstable for me even with a good strong N connection in my house (I only got it because my brother in law moved in opposite us and is a bit skiin t at the mo so can't afford the internet, so he leaches mine).

Also maybe some sort of rebate, much like they did for early xbox adopters, (where to make up for the major price drop shortly after launch, the gave out free games and an a contollerS) and offer some sort of voucher for at least cash off a 20GB HDD (for core serial numbers) and cash off Wifi (which along with the HDD and Mem card costs are probably the only rip offs on the console, i'd want at least a 2GB card and 120GB HDD for the 512MB and 20GB priced parts, the rest seems ok to me tho)

[DEDDOA]

Ditto. I'm sure about half of the current 360 exclusives are shooters. The only way they can reach the success of PS2 is if they release a varied genre line up of games which the PS3 seems to be sorting out for the next two years.

The same goes for the PS3, seems shooters as ou call them are more popular than any other game type. Haze, KZ2, R:FoM, even Uncharted and MGS falls into the war game/on rail 3rd person shooter, catagory that some short sighted people apply to the 360. Though just like the PS3, though admitedly more so at present, the 360 has more of a selection of non shooter or driving game games simply because it has more games. You could say the PS2 was the "shooter" console as it had more than any other console so far, but you don't even though technically it's true.

Simply put, "Shooters" and sports/driving games are sure fire sellers these days so safe bets for developers, which is why you see so many of them. Most of the best games of last year were "shooters2 or sports/driving games games.

I think the real issue here is that PS3 owners don't pay any attention to their own catalogue of games due to it's uninspiring nature when compared to the 360

[grapeape]

The same goes for the PS3, seems shooters as ou call them are more popular than any other game type. Haze, KZ2, R:FoM, even Uncharted and MGS falls into the war game/on rail 3rd person shooter, catagory that some short sighted people apply to the 360. Though just like the PS3, though admitedly more so at present, the 360 has more of a selection of non shooter or driving game games simply because it has more games. You could say the PS2 was the "shooter" console as it had more than any other console so far, but you don't even though technically it's true.

Simply put, "Shooters" and sports/driving games are sure fire sellers these days so safe bets for developers, which is why you see so many of them. Most of the best games of last year were "shooters2 or sports/driving games games.

I think the real issue here is that PS3 owners don't pay any attention to their own catalogue of games due to it's uninspiring nature when compared to the 360

You dont really expect fanboys to really pay attention to that do you. Remember when comparing the 360 to the PS3 its alway the 360's current catalog vs whatever is released, announced, speculated or wished for.

They dont want to hear that the only thing close to an RTS on the ps3 is PixelJunk Monsters on PSN, that the only RPG's are Oblivion and Enchanted Arms which were out on the 360 a year earlier, that it has far less fighting games, racing games, less parlor/party game, only 1 platformer and a higer ratio of shooters than any other console out right now.

The ps3 already has 23 shooters in a single year not including action/adventures like Uncharted. The 360 has 33 so far in over 2 years.

Guess we just cant let facts stand in the way of fanboyism.

[Cyclone57]

It'll make a very noisy this gen's PS2. I've grown to dislike my 360 in favour of my PS3. :D

[majeddy]

i like the 360 better then my wii for myself and I like the wii when I have friends over for a get together.

[msanchez]

...The ps3 already has 23 shooters in a single year not including action/adventures like Uncharted. The 360 has 33 so far in over 2 years...

Good point, I didn't know the exact # on each console, I did suspect that the ps3 has as many/more FPS than the 360, but I do feel sony is getting a bit too trigger happy for me. The only reason I have bought both previous sony consoles is for it's RPGs, I bought the psp on launch, assuming that it would get many great RPGs and in all honesty only recently has it started to live up to my expectations. Now there have been many great psp games, I just expected WAY more rpgs... I guess I'll have to learn japanese.

Anyways, I don't regret buying the psp when I did (untold legends is another story), but I definitely could have waited. After learning that lesson I'm applying it this time around and so I'm waiting for enough reasons to hop on the current gen train.

[Gamer87]

Damn DEDDOA and grapeape, you need to pay complete attention to what others write before bashing them for no reason. I clearly stated the word exclusive

and so far the PS3 only has Resistance and Time Crisis 4. Also calling Uncharted and Metal Gear Solid shooters is ridiculous. You can do much more actions in

these two games than a standard shooter game and you would know this if you actually played them so don't criticize games you haven't played yet.

[grapeape]

Damn DEDDOA and grapeape, you need to pay complete attention to what others write before bashing them for no reason. I clearly stated the word exclusive

and so far the PS3 only has Resistance and Time Crisis 4. Also calling Uncharted and Metal Gear Solid shooters is ridiculous. You can do much more actions in

these two games than a standard shooter game and you would know this if you actually played them so don't criticize games you haven't played yet.


Your right i didnt figure when there were less than 20 exclusives to start with that it would make for any kind of real statistics...based on "exlusives" the ps3 is mostly a sports game console...but we all know thats not really the case. BTW I specifically mentioned excluding Uncharted for that reason, left out MGS because it isnt out yet and completely forgot that Time Crisis 4 exists even though I own it :(

I wasnt bashing anything...I just think the typical "360 is nothing but shooters" line is a total myth.

[Rotmm]

Damn DEDDOA and grapeape, you need to pay complete attention to what others write before bashing them for no reason. I clearly stated the word exclusive

Ok, so I'll bash you for stating about 1/2 the 360 exclusives are shooters. You're way, way out there.

[DEDDOA]

Damn DEDDOA and grapeape, you need to pay complete attention to what others write before bashing them for no reason. I clearly stated the word exclusive

and so far the PS3 only has Resistance and Time Crisis 4. Also calling Uncharted and Metal Gear Solid shooters is ridiculous. You can do much more actions in

these two games than a standard shooter game and you would know this if you actually played them so don't criticize games you haven't played yet.

I probably shouldn't have quoted you, it's just you were the latest "the 360 only does FPS" type posts, and so I got irritated enough to post that such comments are a falacy usually created by PS3 fanatics.

Anyway, I disagree MGS4 esspecially seems to have more in common with the likes of GRAW or R6 (not to mention looking a lot like R6), ok so there is stealth and interaction not all shooters have to be all action, bioshock, deus ex etc are a prime example of this. As for uncharted, it is little more than a platform shooter (and yes I have played it, infact it is sat in front of me with R&C, Motorstorm and Heavenly sword, thats 2/3rds of the half decent PS3 exclusive catalogue out so far) in my view.

Anyway I stand by my cooment that on average the the PS3 is the "Shooter" console at present, well shooter and sport, so it's full of dev's "safe" games.