Dyack: Xbox 360 and PS3 are equal

[Zeus]

The boss of Silicon Knights, Dennis Dyack has commented that the PS3 and Xbox 360 are equal in terms of technical capabilities despite a general belief that the PS3 is a more robust next-gen offering. Dyack believes that both systems are equal and while the PS3 may have more processing power, the 360 has more available memory so its pretty much equal.


"Maybe the PS3 has more processing power. The 360 has more available memory. It's pretty much a net, net," he said. "The public perception of the PS3 was that it was much more powerful. To developers, they look even."

Regarding the victor of the console war, Dyack implied that it is still far too early to tell, stating, "It's a tough one. Microsoft is looking really good. Everyone is looking pretty good. At the beginning, everyone thought Sony would walk away with it. We won't know for sure for two years."

As for the Wii, he stated it all depends if the "controller stands the tests of time."


News source: <A href="http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/14530/Dyack_PS3_and_Xbox_360_Are_Equal.html" target="_blank">GWN</a>

[fearevil19]

Finnaly!! I totally agree with this.The only reason i'm going to the PS3 is because I don't want to pay to play online and I don't want to get that "Ring of Doom" thing.

[russcarr]

Sony really should have stuck more memory in the PS3

[Dark_Vendetta]

Let the flame war begin ...

[segaman1977]

I can't wait for the Sony Fanboys to jump on and talk about how a developer is wrong; you know since fanboys have so much experience in programming and hardware engineering. This pro and con comparison has been brought up so many times, and in the end the same conclusion has been drawn. Both systems is capable of providing the same gaming experience, and that is all that matters: What the gamer can enjoy. Usually when a developer talks about one system being superior than the other, those developers are from in-house studios or close partners. Of course they are going to be bias. The only reason I like to defend the 360 so much is that Sony people try so much harder than "XBots" to down-talk the opposite console. I like my PS3, but right now the 360 just has better content. This is Sony's fault. If the software potential is the same on both systems, I don't think it's right that developers have to work so much harder to get the same result as its 360 counterpart. It's not fair to call programmers lazy. Hardware should be easy to manipulate. This allows more games to be developed, and released sooner. If I needed to cut my yard, and was offered a lawnmower or a pair of scissors, using the lawnmower just makes more sense: especially if the result is the same. That wouldn't make me lazy, just more logical and productive.

[big46uk]

I thought the PS3 had the same amount of memory as the 360?? when did 360 get more memory? I think this guy talking horse crap.

[fearevil19]

I can't wait for the Sony Fanboys to jump on and talk about how a developer is wrong; you know since fanboys have so much experience in programming and hardware engineering. This pro and con comparison has been brought up so many times, and in the end the same conclusion has been drawn. Both systems is capable of providing the same gaming experience, and that is all that matters: What the gamer can enjoy. Usually when a developer talks about one system being superior than the other, those developers are from in-house studios or close partners. Of course they are going to be bias. The only reason I like to defend the 360 so much is that Sony people try so much harder than "XBots" to down-talk the opposite console. I like my PS3, but right now the 360 just has better content. This is Sony's fault. If the software potential is the same on both systems, I don't think it's right that developers have to work so much harder to get the same result as its 360 counterpart. It's not fair to call programmers lazy. Hardware should be easy to manipulate. This allows more games to be developed, and released sooner. If I needed to cut my yard, and was offered a lawnmower or a pair of scissors, using the lawnmower just makes more sense: especially if the result is the same. That wouldn't make me lazy, just more logical and productive.
I'm a PS3 owner and a Playstation fan and I totally agree with this.I hate
fanboys (from Microsoft and Sony).

[ando2k5]

I thought the PS3 had the same amount of memory as the 360?? when did 360 get more memory? I think this guy talking horse crap.

ps3 has 256mb 360 has 512mb

[kidman64]

nah, ps3 has 256+256 (gpu) mb of ram, 360 has unified 512mb of ram, which is easier to use

[big46uk]

ps3 has 256mb 360 has 512mb

i thought it had
* 256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
* 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

Am I right?

[MadMax31]

Don't forget to add that the architecture of the PS3 differs of a conventional PC whether the X-360 has a similar architecture to a PC, and therefore is easier to develop for, the reason I bring this up, is because in order to squeeze the best graphics out of the PS3, you need to have the time, and resources to do it, a thing that many idiots don't understand and just come up with the "lazy developers :mad:" statement.

[fearevil19]

i thought it had
* 256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
* 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

Am I right?
Yep, thats correct.

[big46uk]

knew I wasn't dreaming. these boss of what every company sure know jack. its amaze me that they can open their mouth with out even checking the facts.

[Aeond]

rather believe the ps3 is more powerful

[AndrewLeon]

and heeeeerrrree come the fanbois

[mrhocuspocus]

isnt this the same guy who is sueing epic, bc he stole source code from their unreal 3 engine to make his own and, then the game he made with it was in the shadow of gears of war at e3?

sounds like a legit source for a comparison...

[nuke868]

Sure u see how much they are the same when u compare the 3d in colin mcrae on the x360 where the box explodes and theres blurr 24h/24h(on the ps3 not)
with the 3d engine in Motorstorm clearly u do see a lot of x360 games that looks like that,Lair included.... pathetic considerations i own both and its clear from the very first games thats the ps3 is more powerful.

[Rotmm]

Lazy Devs :mad:

[whackawookie]

knew I wasn't dreaming. these boss of what every company sure know jack. its amaze me that they can open their mouth with out even checking the facts.


maybe you should check your facts before you accuse an actual developer of not knowing what he's talking about or better yet everyother developer who has said the same exact thing in regards to memory. don't bash if you don't know what your bashing

[SSChevy2001]

I thought the PS3 had the same amount of memory as the 360?? when did 360 get more memory? I think this guy talking horse crap.The 360 has 512MB GDDR3 + 10MB EDRAM vs PS3 256MB XDR + 256MB GDDR3. Also the 360 OS only uses 32MB vs the PS3 OS using 56MB XDR 32MB GDDR3.

So the 360 has 490MB free for games, while the PS3 has only 424MB. Not to mention the 360 can split that 490MB anyway it wants to the CPU or the GPU.

The 360 also has a better CPU as well for gaming. So far the PS3 has only 6 SPEs for gaming as 1 is reserved for the OS. Each SPE was rated at 25 GFLOPS, but IBM was only able to achieve a 75.9% efficiency. So doing the math 6 x 25 x .759 = 113.85 GFLOPS vs the 360's 115.2 GFLOPS. Not to mention how hard it seems to be for developers to use the SPEs as uncharted is only using 30% of the SPEs.

As far as GPU the 360 also has the edge with 240 GFLOPS vs the PS3 228 GFLOPS. Also the 360 GPU has double the fillrate.

DVD vs Bluray give the edge to PS3 as far as space goes, but that's about it.

So yeah it's looks that they are not exactly equal, but close.

[cokemusic1]

At this moment in time , looking at the games from both consoles i'd firmly agree that at this time that both consoles are equal (actualy 360 bit better because of
the ease to develop for it.)

I'm not sure about which console will proove to be more powerfull in the long run ,it may be the case that neither has been fully utilised yet.

I think the general public would think that the PS3 is more powerfull than the 360 , it was released later , it sounds better on paper , folding@home , used for mathmatical/scientific research etc etc.

[arcticjoe]

Sure u see how much they are the same when u compare the 3d in colin mcrae on the x360 where the box explodes and theres blurr 24h/24h(on the ps3 not)
with the 3d engine in Motorstorm clearly u do see a lot of x360 games that looks like that,Lair included.... pathetic considerations i own both and its clear from the very first games thats the ps3 is more powerful.

yes, ps3 is more powerfull, and thats why most multi-platform games run at higher framerates and have better visuals on 360. /sarcasm


PS3 has three main problems with its architecture:
a) its GPU isnt as advanced as 360's
b) Split memory architecture and lack of memory bandwitdth is a major bottleneck, where as 360 has 256gb/s EDRAM reserved to counter that problem. Also, PS3 has reserved about 3x of system memory for OS than 360, which is one of the reasons that some multi-platform titles have to have some features culled for the game to run
c) cell is notoriously difficult to program for and because if that most dev's choose 360 as lead platform. its not a case of "lazy developers", its simply too costly in terms of time and money to rewrite and re-optimise code for a platform that isnt selling all that well.

[satel]

match GT5 graphics then come & say the powerful PS3 is at the same power level as the defective red ringer.

GT5 is only the beginning ;) halo 3 at the 640p is the end :rolleyes:

[EliteStance]

I don't care about these dumb comparisons... I want games, I want better multi-media facilities... I want people to stop arguing that one has to be better than the other. What difference does it make? Does everyone have the same TV, the same car, the same house?

You have a choice and you make the one that's best for you.

The only complaint I have is that some devs have pushed out poor ports or unoptimised code for PS3 rather than take the time to get it right. That I care about.

[Covert Knight]

The 360 has 512MB GDDR3 + 10MB EDRAM vs PS3 256MB XDR + 256MB GDDR3. Also the 360 OS only uses 32MB vs the PS3 OS using 56MB XDR 32MB GDDR3.

So the 360 has 490MB free for games, while the PS3 has only 424MB. Not to mention the 360 can split that 490MB anyway it wants to the CPU or the GPU.

The 360 also has a better CPU as well for gaming. So far the PS3 has only 6 SPEs for gaming as 1 is reserved for the OS. Each SPE was rated at 25 GFLOPS, but IBM was only able to achieve a 75.9% efficiency. So doing the math 6 x 25 x .759 = 113.85 GFLOPS vs the 360's 115.2 GFLOPS. Not to mention how hard it seems to be for developers to use the SPEs as uncharted is only using 30% of the SPEs.

As far as GPU the 360 also has the edge with 240 GFLOPS vs the PS3 228 GFLOPS. Also the 360 GPU has double the fillrate.

DVD vs Bluray give the edge to PS3 as far as space goes, but that's about it.

So yeah it's looks that they are not exactly equal, but close.

I always love it when you come in to own fanboy face lol.

But despite memory argument, I do feel that they are pretty much equal, so yes I concur with this developer about the capabilities of each console.

[cokemusic1]

I think i'm going to have to end up buying both consoles because thinking about which one to choose is killing my brain.

The 360 is probably in the superior gaming system in the eyes of the objective gamer.

The PS3 is probably the more versatile system in the eyes of the objective gamer.

I want good games , but i'm really impressed with what Sony have to offer Home,MGS,FF,KH,EOF etc I just relate to Sony more than MS. I don't really care so much about crysis,bioshock wouldn't mind gears of war and I coudln't stand not having the more superior gaming console.

PS3 this month , Arcade in the new year...

[XxBigP123xX]

my ps3 fell off my tv stand today. works fine now:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Skyline34]

Found this... sounded interesting:

Recent tests by IBM show that the SPEs can reach 98% of their theoretical peak performance using optimized parallel Matrix Multiplication.


o_0 did that really happen XxBigP123xX ??

[cokemusic1]

Recent tests by IBM show that the SPEs can reach 98% of their theoretical peak performance using optimized parallel Matrix Multiplication.[22]

Wikipedia isn't the most usefull of sources but it's there....does 98%= 98% usable ?? would this then mean that the PS3 > 360.

Why would anyone make technology they couldn't fully utilise in the first place ?did they know that they'd fully utilise it at some point ?how could you make technology that you couldn't currently utilise but knew you could utilise in the future? , that'd be really difficult.

I'm confused here lol.

[kidman64]

i don't understand something.. why don't people believe devs when they say things like that? they're not saying ps3 is worse (well, Newell from Valve says so) or that 360 is worse, so why do you even fight about it? Cause sony said ps3 was more powerful? well, what were they suppose to say?

[arcticjoe]

The problem with SPE's is that unlike 360 cores SPE's have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing.

[whackawookie]

i don't understand something.. why don't people believe devs when they say things like that? they're not saying ps3 is worse (well, Newell from Valve says so) or that 360 is worse, so why do you even fight about it? Cause sony said ps3 was more powerful? well, what were they suppose to say?

because its not in there best interest. its a double standard, if a developer says the ps3 is the greatest its valid but if its opposite of that then its a lie. Sony, Nintendo and MS only provided the Easel, the developers are the artists so without them its just a blank canvas. If you have a single system preference then always be prepared for comments you dont agree with because your never going to find a console that gets the approval from every single developer

[big46uk]

The 360 has 512MB GDDR3 + 10MB EDRAM vs PS3 256MB XDR + 256MB GDDR3. Also the 360 OS only uses 32MB vs the PS3 OS using 56MB XDR 32MB GDDR3.

So the 360 has 490MB free for games, while the PS3 has only 424MB. Not to mention the 360 can split that 490MB anyway it wants to the CPU or the GPU.

The 360 also has a better CPU as well for gaming. So far the PS3 has only 6 SPEs for gaming as 1 is reserved for the OS. Each SPE was rated at 25 GFLOPS, but IBM was only able to achieve a 75.9% efficiency. So doing the math 6 x 25 x .759 = 113.85 GFLOPS vs the 360's 115.2 GFLOPS. Not to mention how hard it seems to be for developers to use the SPEs as uncharted is only using 30% of the SPEs.

As far as GPU the 360 also has the edge with 240 GFLOPS vs the PS3 228 GFLOPS. Also the 360 GPU has double the fillrate.

DVD vs Bluray give the edge to PS3 as far as space goes, but that's about it.

So yeah it's looks that they are not exactly equal, but close.

nahhh you're full of crap. s*** is pouring out your mouth.

[kidman64]

he's mostly right, besides ps3's OS was known for eating up more ram than 360's

[big46uk]

he's mostly right, besides ps3's OS was known for eating up more ram than 360's

Don't try to agree with a person pouring crap out of their mouth you'll get some in yours.

[rahilb]

nahhh you're full of crap. s*** is pouring out your mouth.

Great point there, stellar argument.

[big46uk]

because its not in there best interest. its a double standard, if a developer says the ps3 is the greatest its valid but if its opposite of that then its a lie. Sony, Nintendo and MS only provided the Easel, the developers are the artists so without them its just a blank canvas. If you have a single system preference then always be prepared for comments you dont agree with because your never going to find a console that gets the approval from every single developer

If I was a developer I would lean toward the platform I was developing on. Because I want that platform to get me the most profit.

[whackawookie]

Great point there, stellar argument.

im convinced. before i was on the fence but with such a great rebuttle how could you not side with him:rolleyes:

[rahilb]

Don't try to agree with a person pouring crap out of their mouth you'll get some in yours.

Your insight continues to impress me, keep it up...







you tosser.

[big46uk]

Your insight continues to impress me, keep it up...







you tosser.

You don't have any sight.

[whackawookie]

If I was a developer I would lean toward the platform I was developing on. Because I want that platform to get me the most profit.

then you as a developer would go bankrupt because in the world of business you go where the money is not where it could possibly be. Cross platform development is where the money is, just look at guitar hero 3 sales across the board. picking one system which may or may not have the particular fans for your franchise could break that franchise in half if it isnt succesful, why risk it - because you have a preference?

[big46uk]

I just talking crap here.

[big46uk]

then you as a developer would go bankrupt because in the world of business you go where the money is not where it could possibly be. Cross platform development is where the money is, just look at guitar hero 3 sales across the board. picking one system which may or may not have the particular fans for your franchise could break that franchise in half if it isnt succesful, why risk it - because you have a preference?

its called exclusives. Mass effect, gears of war, Halo. don't see them bankrupt

[kidman64]

ah, trollbait.. please, spare us, we have enough of fanboys here, really;)

[big46uk]

ah, trollbait.. please, spare us, we have enough of fanboys here, really;)

lol.. Don't know what you are on about I am just trying to stire up s***

[whackawookie]

lol.. Don't know what you are on about I am just trying to stire up s***

which is why i didnt respond to your last comment :D

[big46uk]

which is why i didnt respond to your last comment :D

Becos the last comment was the only correct one about exclusives ;)

[big46uk]

Its good to stir up sh** you get more discussion going ;)

[sigma8]

Well, before this I was open to any possibility...but when Dennis Dyack says it, you know it's false. So I guess the PS3 really is better.

[shemmy]

its called exclusives. Mass effect, gears of war, Halo. don't see them bankrupt

first two published by microsoft game studios and the last from a company that was owned by ms at the time. the chances of those companies going bankrupt were nil.

anyway...

right now the ps3 and xbox seem pretty much the same, with the 360 edging it on total number of worthy games. if i was to look at a random bunch of screenshots of games from both systems i doubt i could tell the differnece.

[XxBigP123xX]

Found this... sounded interesting:




o_0 did that really happen XxBigP123xX ??

YES:mad::D my brother ripped out the cord for the PSEye and it took the whole thing down:(

but it works fine so i dont care:D

[MadMax31]

The question is: are the developers going to invest the resources and the time to optimize the PS3 games (not talking about 1st and 2nd parties)?.

I mean if you don't see profit, just output a port and make some "quick" cash in from a game... (like it has been done).

I think Sony needs to give better support to the 3rd parties and optimize their SDK, so that maybe next year we see real examples of what the PS3 is capable (and please don't come with MGS of FF, as they have been in development for quite some time), and more importantly give us a reasons as why we need the PS3 as a gaming machine...:(

[fearevil19]

and more importantly give us a reasons as why we need the PS3 as a gaming machine...:(

GTA 4 & Kingdom Hearts 3 FTW!! Sorry about that, I couldn't held it :p

[[Evol]]

its only business choices to get the most mulla for the product

A. develop product for win32 rehash for xbox and port it to ps3
B. develop product for xbox upgrade content for win32 forget about ps3
C. develop product multiplatform with a different game engine for all systems (content is the same but with different size restrictions for graphical data)


model A. is for the win32 developers who wants to maximize profit without reorganizing the company.

model B. is for the company's who believe that there is only profit in the present here and now.

model C. is for the company's who wants to stay competitive in the future

what he,s saying ive tried to say so many times in these forums

ps3 = more processing power and storage place
xbox360 = prettier graphics and easier access to the hardware

Overall its a tie.
and anybody bitching about a few pixels here, or low resolution there, should just be thankful that these company's practically is giving away equipment that is 3x more powerful than the price implies.

[busboy33]

GTA 4 & Kingdom Hearts 3 FTW!! Sorry about that, I couldn't held it :p

And how is GTA4 a win for Sony? Especially with the extra content on the 360 version?

Now if role-playing Goofy is your thing, then by all means KH3 is the way to go . . .

[fearevil19]

And how is GTA4 a win for Sony? Especially with the extra content on the 360 version?

Now if role-playing Goofy is your thing, then by all means KH3 is the way to go . . .

you obviously never completed KH2.

about the GTA 4 thing:


At X06 late last month Microsoft was very keen to make it known that the Xbox 360 version of Grand Theft Auto IV will feature exclusive downloadable content, in the form of two epic episodes with hours of new gameplay. It now appears that the same is true of the PlayStation 3 version.

Speaking to Eurogamer, an unnamed source said to be close to Rockstar North said the team is working on extra downloadable content for both versions of the game. The new content will be unique to each system and will essentially be some brand new areas that link in with the rest of the game world.

The source says to "think of the world as a large island - the new downloadable areas will be like smaller islands linking into it."

It's one thing to charge for new exclusive content post release, but by offering different content for each platform Rockstar is more likely to be pleasing the platform holders than the people who buy their games - the full GTA IV experience will now require a PS3, an Xbox 360, a copy of the game for each platform, and the cost of the extra content.

Grand Theft Auto IV is scheduled to launch here in Europe on Xbox 360 and PS3 on October 19, 2007.

Source: Eurogamer

[LeGioN1202]

YES:mad::D my brother ripped out the cord for the PSEye and it took the whole thing down:(

but it works fine so i dont care:D

I know what you mean. I either tripped over, knocked over, left on for days, etc... and this thing still works as it did the day I bought it.

Thing is built like a tank bro, kind of like those old Phat DS'.

[snuffomega]

I don't care..... Remember the PS1 vs. The Sega Saturn.... The Saturn was supposedly a more "advanced" system than the PS1, but where did this "advanced" system go?? Nowhere!!!!!!!..... I love my Xbox 360 and until PS3 gives me a reason to get it, I won't.

[grudge1981]

you obviously never completed KH2.

about the GTA 4 thing:

assuming what you say is true i may be getting the ps3 version instead, then just borrow my buddies hdd and his copy of gta iv for the 360 (no need in buying both) and play the dlc when im done with mine

[busboy33]

you obviously never completed KH2.

about the GTA 4 thing:


I just went through Eurogamer and couldn't find this info -- ???

Assuming its true, how does it make the PS3 version better than the 360 version?

[fearevil19]

I just went through Eurogamer and couldn't find this info -- ???

Assuming its true, how does it make the PS3 version better than the 360 version?
welll, thats what I'm trying to tell you, its the same thing.They are both getting extra content.Admit it Xbox 360 and PS3 is the same thing.:)They are both good, the companys are the ones who suck.


PS:Sorry, i got a little bit angry, i need to calm down:p

[Video Boy Club]

When ordinary people realize that they have purchased more than 1 year after a lower hardware also paid much more will be the beginning of real decline in PS3, understanding that the success stems from the sharing of new entertainment experiences with the highest possible number of people.

Surface people , which are now the majority of consumers, are usually those who say if I pay more have the better, but this time the news ps3 is not so much new as he wanted to appear.

[Mikeyy]

I just went through Eurogamer and couldn't find this info -- ???

Assuming its true, how does it make the PS3 version better than the 360 version?

How does it make the 360 version better than PS3's?

They both have unique DLC...

[Mikeyy]

When ordinary people realize that they have purchased more than 1 year after a lower hardware also paid much more will be the beginning of real decline in PS3, understanding that the success stems from the sharing of new entertainment experiences with the highest possible number of people.

Surface people , which are now the majority of consumers, are usually those who say if I pay more have the better, but this time the news ps3 is not so much new as he wanted to appear.

What is with you guys? 7 months ago, It was agreed PS3 was more advanced hardware, now all the sudden 360 fanboys boast the 360 has more advanced hardware. Back then you told us, The superior consoles always sell the least, yet you claim the 360 is now the superior, so you doom yourself.

Now the details are out, and the diffrences are Miniscule.

Edram this, Unified memory that, Double fill rate this, like you guys are MIT students or something, The nintendo 64 has **** for graphics memory, and they adapted and developed tricks to get the most out of it. night and day differences from launch games to late games. Night and day, this is true Every generation.

The same is true for any console, Code can be optimised, and optimied AGAIN so much so that 2 years from now the differences cannot be determined. We are already reaching that point with some games, but you guys convieniently ignore that news.

Xbots need to revise there arguments, hardware is a dead end. More and more developers like Infinity Ward are doing fine with the PS3. All you have is an EX-harmonix dev, and Gabe newell whos console knowledge is less then EA's quality. Gabe is a PC guy, Gabe has NO IDEA what its like to work in a confined area. You can count his console games on 1 hand. stop citing that fat ass. The PS3 prices are down to obtainable levels, yet you bash the 40gig for having now BC when the Core couldnt natually do it either.

this double standard has to end. It just has to, too many people are accepting this banter as fact, when it isnt.

[grapeape]

What is with you guys? 7 months ago, It was agreed PS3 was more advanced hardware, now all the sudden 360 fanboys boast the 360 has more advanced hardware. Back then you told us, The superior consoles always sell the least, yet you claim the 360 is now the superior, so you doom yourself.

Now the details are out, and the diffrences are Miniscule.

Edram this, Unified memory that, Double fill rate this, like you guys are MIT students or something, The nintendo 64 has **** for graphics memory, and they adapted and developed tricks to get the most out of it. night and day differences from launch games to late games. Night and day, this is true Every generation.

The same is true for any console, Code can be optimised, and optimied AGAIN so much so that 2 years from now the differences cannot be determined. We are already reaching that point with some games, but you guys convieniently ignore that news.

Xbots need to revise there arguments, hardware is a dead end. More and more developers like Infinity Ward are doing fine with the PS3. All you have is an EX-harmonix dev, and Gabe newell whos console knowledge is less then EA's quality. Gabe is a PC guy, Gabe has NO IDEA what its like to work in a confined area. You can count his console games on 1 hand. stop citing that fat ass. The PS3 prices are down to obtainable levels, yet you bash the 40gig for having now BC when the Core couldnt natually do it either.

this double standard has to end. It just has to, too many people are accepting this banter as fact, when it isnt.

The difference is the same as every other argument that fanboys used to evengilize their console....their standards are a moving target.

When the ps3 was close to release all the fanboys and most of the press ranted about how its sales were going to trounce the 360 and how the console war was already over. Now those same fanboys claim that selling "about as good as the 360 did its first year" is good enough.

When the 360 was released fanboys ranted that it had terrible backwards compatability and boasted about the 100% compatability of the PS3, now that its been cut out of the new model the same fanboys claim backwards compatability is not needed and is over rated. How many "xbots" did you see promoting the core?? Most of them on here wish they would drop it.

When the games started trickling in and games looked better on the 360, fanboys claimed it was lazy devs or poor ports. The lack of games was acceptable since it was just the first year. Nevermind that developers had their dev kits only 4 months after MS sent out theirs, the delays were mostly on the retail side, but lets not let that get in the way of a good excuse.

When the specs for the ps3 (both before and after they cut them back) fanboys and most of the press again went on and on about fill rate this and cell that and how the 360 had no chance. Now that the realworld specs are showing there is very little performance difference at all the same fanboys find that acceptable and have moved on to storage.

The double standard is a two-way street...

[[Evol]]

hey... hey... hey... stop it right there. where in our galaxy can i find these "real world specs" you're talking about. i seem to hold up to your notion of a fanboy, but that does not worry me. What worries me is that people seem to think that the xbox would be in the same number crunching league as the ps3

(same muddled thinking that people that think that a 733mhz 32bit celeron is faster at crunching numbers than a 294mhz 128bit mips)

[fearevil19]

;754230']hey... hey... hey... stop it right there. where in our galaxy can i find these "real world specs" you're talking about.

you can see the specs everywhere.Try youtube.

[[Evol]]

i would rather suck on a goat, than seeing anything on youtube as "fact"

[OblivionX]

I find the whole specs thing rather tiresome.

I said from the start from day one sony released their specs that they where BS number spinning. I was correct as so where many others but the sony fanboys ate it up and still do. But you know what I don't care they can believe what they want.

Im enjoying my 360 and Wii combination. And if metal gear doesn't come to 360 I will possibly buy the ps3 in a few years to play it.

I think the 360 is the hardcore gaming console for me, it has all the games I want, it runs them well at 720p 60fps with reasonable AA. The online is great and im having no red ring issues.

The ps3 only has the same games, minus the great online with a few exclusives that im not really interested in. The muliplatform games I would get on my 360 for online but also usually for the better AA and colour representation.

The specs argument is old. The games are where its at. I have 34 retail games and around 7 arcade games on my 360. There isn't even 10 games on the ps3 I want.

[Spnoz]

One can have specs that looks like able to crush the competition, but what count, in the end, is the result you see and play.

And right now, the 360 and the PS3 games all look similar enough in graphic capabilities to say that they are roughly capable of doing the same thing. Those arguing otherwise obvioulsy haven't played the two, or are pretty anal about small details most don't care about.

Who cares about fillrate, clockspeed, unified RAM or other meaningless specs, when those differences aren't showing themselves when I look at my screen? Like I say, what count in the end, is the RESULT. Who care how you got there. You're there. PS3 games aren't looking really better than 360 games, and the other way around is also true. Sure, some games might look better on one or the other, compared to other games, but more than likely, it is not due to the hardware being "better". Sure, the PS3 can crunch numbers faster then the 360. But this have ZERO impact on the actual GAME experience. Well, so far, it doesn't show anyway.

Maybe in the future, the PS3 will have a small edge over the 360 when people will get used to the PS3 hardware (like it happens on all systems) but then, it has more to do with the fact that the PS3 was released later.

But right now, both systems provide us with similar results and similar game experience.

Just take your pick and enjoy the games. Why is there a need to argue about something so irrelevant anyway?

[shemmy]

;754230']where in our galaxy can i find these "real world specs" you're talking about.

you find the "real world specs" in the only place it really matters, your tv screen. all the techonobabble you read about is pointless and a waste of time, the 360 and ps3 are pretty much equal.

[[Evol]]

yeah sure ....
so Dyack is wrong because the "realworldspecs" say so.
where do you all crawl out from. ???

do you guys actually believe that 3ppc cores @ 3.2 ghz is faster than
1 ppc core @ 3.2 ghz and 7 spes @ 3.2 ghz ???

microsoft must be using some mindaltering,subliminally,dumbening,thingy in their products

[shemmy]

;756956']do you guys actually believe that 3ppc cores @ 3.2 ghz is faster than
1 ppc core @ 3.2 ghz and 7 spes @ 3.2 ghz ???


from what you see on-screen there appears to be no difference.

[kidman64]

;756956']yeah sure ....
so Dyack is wrong because the "realworldspecs" say so.
where do you all crawl out from. ???

do you guys actually believe that 3ppc cores @ 3.2 ghz is faster than
1 ppc core @ 3.2 ghz and 7 spes @ 3.2 ghz ???

microsoft must be using some mindaltering,subliminally,dumbening,thingy in their products

aw.. that's so cute.. you can't deal with something you don't like, so you refuse to believe it, way to go little boy

[billysastard]

;756956'] do you guys actually believe that 3ppc cores @ 3.2 ghz is faster than
1 ppc core @ 3.2 ghz and 7 spes @ 3.2 ghz ???



that would depend if the 7spe's @ 3.2ghz were bottlenecked to hell or not realy.

as for real world specs, there is only one important one and that shows the wii is kicking both ps3 and x360's arses, and once you accept that i'm afraid its time to accept less games with less time and money spent on them, exactly the same as the xbox and gamecube suffered with the all conquering ps2.

[OblivionX]

;756956']yeah sure ....
so Dyack is wrong because the "realworldspecs" say so.
where do you all crawl out from. ???

do you guys actually believe that 3ppc cores @ 3.2 ghz is faster than
1 ppc core @ 3.2 ghz and 7 spes @ 3.2 ghz ???

microsoft must be using some mindaltering,subliminally,dumbening,thingy in their products

Yes you have shown you know nothing about programming or how cpus work. In some things the 360 has the advantage, AI for instance and general game code. But the ps3 can do clouds, water, anything with physics calculations rather well due to the SPEs.

But the 360 can do anything it wants on its 3 cores. The ps3 needs to do gamecode and AI on one core and the delegate what it can to the SPEs for them to do floating point calculations.

As a programmer I would prefer the 360 approach and most people generally do. But its not to say the ps3 cant do it, it just requires more effort and time.

You are just looking at the 360 and going 3 cpus then at cell and going ooo 8 cpus. Even though it only really uses 5 SPEs, since 1 is reserved for the OS and another can be asked to stop what its doing and help the OS do something.

[[Evol]]

hmm.. at first i didn't want to insult your intelligence but wtf man!!!!
i know nothing about programing ???

first the spes crunch fixed point not floating point numbers (thats the reason that ps3 use openGL ES spes can do floating/fixed point but it shines on fixed )

second of all why do you believe that working on one sort of dual threading is "better" than the other ???

third AI code can be executed by the spes

fourth ps3 has 8 spes but the reason for not using all is for manufacturing concerns (if one spe is broken in assembly line, they just enable a working one)

so 7 spes it is, one is reserved so its 6 spes active for computational purposes (the windows kernel also uses one of the 6 threads in the 3 cores so whats up with freaking out that one core is occupied by the Os of ps3 ????)

fifth the extra effort has more to do with tools like a good HAL CC Debuger and so forth

"you have shown you know nothing about programming or how cpus work" wtf does that mean did you know that 32bitx86 is not the only cpus used in devices its because different needs require different solutions.

arm,mips,risc,cisc,ppc,dsp,arc,avr,sparc,motorola 68000,system/360,vax,pdp-11,Z80,6502

all have their place

saying that xbox360 is fun is one thing but saying that it crunches more ops than ps3 is fubar

you sir are brainwashed by the mindaltering,subliminally,dumbening,thingy