Cnet: Wii sales are falling, Xbox 360 rising and Halo 3 like Mario will sell consoles

[Zeus]

Don Reisinger of Cnet believes that Halo 3 will seal the fate of the Xbox 360, which in his opinion is looking very good. He states that like Mario games in the 90's and Final Fantasy series movied a heck of a lot of consoles, Halo 3 is the only reason why a number of gamers will buy a next-generation console. So he asks people to re-think their actions before they go off shouting that the Wii will be the best ever selling next-gen console as Wii's sales are falling and Xbox 360 sales are on the up with things only getting better as Halo 3 has just been launched.


But for all of its issues--shoddy hardware and underpowered technology--the Xbox 360 will take the day as long as Halo 3 becomes the success we all expect it to be.

By the end of this year, Halo 3 will sell millions of times. And as long as current Xbox 360 aren't purchasing the game two or three times, we should expect higher console sales numbers going forward.

Much like Mario games of the '90s and Final Fantasy VII, Halo 3 is a blockbuster title that will sell consoles. In fact, Halo 3 is the only reason some people will buy a console this generation.

So before everyone runs out to tell the world that the Nintendo Wii will be the de facto leader going forward, it's incumbent upon all of us to realize that Wii sales are falling, Xbox 360 sales are rising and with Halo 3 right around the corner, that trend will only continue until the latter cements itself as this generation's console war victor.


News Source: <A href=http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13506_1-9783413-17.html" target="_blank">cnet</a>

[des]

no wonder that 360 rise now....the most over rated / hyped game in history was just released...

[Cheunce]

Let the fanboy war begin

[Wesyeed]

shush des. this is exactly what i predicted. I said Nintendo's reliance on nostalgic games and its unwillingness to move forward into next gen gaming will backfire on it.

Say whatever you will, but it's the damn truth. Gamers are going to grow tired of kiddy poo nintendo and want to experience more powerful and adult games. that's just the way it is.

[allybally]

interesting! ... Im a bit of a console freak (own 12!!)... and right now the xbox 360 is my favorite... because of Halo 3.... Well thats until Killzone 2 arrives :D

[Raist3d]

short-term thinking. Unless a general major trend of Wii dissapointment starts, Halo is not going to be that trend.

We'll see what happens this Xmas... I expect Wii to be the #1 system seller in USA.

- Raist

[So-Unreal]

"In fact, Halo 3 is the only reason some people will buy a console this generation." nigga please someone is just trying to get their blog more hits.........

[JacKz5o]

Xbox and Halo 3 sucks..

[miserabillis]

its a nice game BUT in NO WAY near FF7 or MARIO they revolutionized gaming...Halo is a r evolution in game marketing and hyping xD and seriously SOme ppl will just buy an XBOX for this?

p.s i will only buy XBOX if an FF comes to it or if i like TOO HUMAN

[Unceshinya]

Haha, just wait till Smash is launched in December, right before Christmas! Then we'll see who will be outselling who.

[sigma8]

interesting! ... Im a bit of a console freak (own 12!!)... and right now the xbox 360 is my favorite... because of Halo 3.... Well thats until Killzone 2 arrives :D

I will cite AllyBally here as my example of why this cnet guy is wrong.. I don't think Halo3 is a reason people will buy a console at all. Anyone who is not into consoles, is not likely to be "into" Halo3 at all. Halo3 is the archetypical console game. The same type of game that has been wowing console junkies and the PC junkies before them for the last 15 years. Allybally is a die-hard gamer, and already has a 360.

The Wii does well because it appeals to non-gamers, or former gamers who don't really game much anymore. Halo3 is a die-hard FPS game through and through. It's not going to to appeal to those groups.

It will sell well, but that's because the 360 has a great install-base. I would predict that they sell maybe a million consoles because of Halo3, but I would bet most people who want Halo3 already had a 360.**

** of course, sales will appear higher because some people have to "repurchase" 360's for certain reasons. The only way to really gauge how well they do will be to review the the H&E division's revenue--remembering that they will have no "losses" this year due to earmarking a billion dollar's from last year's budget in advance..

[des]

shush des. this is exactly what i predicted. I said Nintendo's reliance on nostalgic games and its unwillingness to move forward into next gen gaming will backfire on it.

Say whatever you will, but it's the damn truth. Gamers are going to grow tired of kiddy poo nintendo and want to experience more powerful and adult games. that's just the way it is.

I would rather play a new super mario game than halo.

Oh yeah and I only own a 360 so far, will have my Wii sooner or later ;).

[danight]

ouch he went on to blast the ps3 in that story!!!!

Halo 3 will undoubtedly be the biggest game of the year. With millions already enjoying previous iterations, tomorrow's release could be the biggest we have ever seen. For many casual gamers, the release of Halo 3 means it's time to buy an Xbox 360. And it's this cadre of individuals that Microsoft has been waiting for.

Up to this point, the Playstation 3 has performed about as poorly as we can expect from a console. With no games to tout as deal breakers, the PlayStation 3 is dead in the water. And while some still hope for the days of Killzone saving the PS3's day, it's time to give up hope--nothing can save it now.


Pretty harsh words....

[firaX]

I bought Halo 3 too, completely free of bias as im not a halo freak, and quite honestly MP3 is more fun for Wii, and the graphics, despite the HD, are kind of not much better than MP3 either, quite honestly and i yes halo 3 has many objects on screen at once - especially mid game - however to me it is just a FPS game, the highlights being the vehicles imo, that is what makes the game different imo. Note i am talking about the campaign/coop mode, as i dont like the other kind of multiplayer (not everyone does).
I dont think halo3 will seal xb360 fate, and if it does Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros end of the year will do just enough to counter that, especially outside the Usa.

[DaFireStarter]

I loved Halo 3 and it's currently the best multiplayer experience on any console... I liked the graphics but not everything can live up to Gears of War graphics... I think the music is more important than graphics and Halo 3 delivers like no other game can.... Music lifts the soul and carriers it through the experience in the game... Just like Shadow of the Colossuss... It's a masterful experience but is not better than Bioshock or Gears....

[allybally]

I will cite AllyBally here as my example of why this cnet guy is wrong.. I don't think Halo3 is a reason people will buy a console at all. Anyone who is not into consoles, is not likely to be "into" Halo3 at all. Halo3 is the archetypical console game. The same type of game that has been wowing console junkies and the PC junkies before them for the last 15 years. Allybally is a die-hard gamer, and already has a 360.

The Wii does well because it appeals to non-gamers, or former gamers who don't really game much anymore. Halo3 is a die-hard FPS game through and through. It's not going to to appeal to those groups.

It will sell well, but that's because the 360 has a great install-base. I would predict that they sell maybe a million consoles because of Halo3, but I would bet most people who want Halo3 already had a 360.**

** of course, sales will appear higher because some people have to "repurchase" 360's for certain reasons. The only way to really gauge how well they do will be to review the the H&E division's revenue--remembering that they will have no "losses" this year due to earmarking a billion dollar's from last year's budget in advance..

You are totally right! There is no chance that my "non gamer" friends would ever buy a 360 JUST for halo 3... Well... Unless I forced them :D

[sigma8]

I loved Halo 3 and it's currently the best multiplayer experience on any console... I liked the graphics but not everything can live up to Gears of War graphics... I think the music is more important than graphics and Halo 3 delivers like no other game can.... Music lifts the soul and carriers it through the experience in the game... Just like Shadow of the Colossuss... It's a masterful experience but is not better than Bioshock or Gears....

Wait, you beat Halo3 already? And people complain about Heavenly Sword's length...amazing.. Granted, Halo3 has online, which is big in terms of long term playability.

Music lifts the soul, lol.. You should seriously play Heavenly Sword then. It has some incredible music.. Some of it is just as overly grandiose as Halo music, but lots of it is incredibly well done. If you go to heavenlysword.com and just stay at the region select, you can hear some of it. I think the GB site plays it throughout. The USA one sure doesn't.

edit: here's a direct link to the brit site, where you can at least browse while listening.. Got the link from someone else in these forums a day back or so. The tune they play is one of the character themes, and also the credit music.
http://www.heavenlysword.com/#/en_GB/characters/

[sigma8]

You are totally right! There is no chance that my "non gamer" friends would ever buy a 360 JUST for halo 3... Well... Unless I forced them :D

I actually posted a similar reply on the cnet article. I made one point that I think is a better point that I forgot to make in my first post in this thread: I have a hard time imagining that there are many gamers that were holding their breath for Halo3, who wouldn't have bought a 360 to play Gears of War.. Since Gears is aimed at the same type of gamer...and it enjoyed critical success, great word of mouth, and aggressive marketing last holiday season..

I think the gamer who could resist that, would probably stand a good chance of resisting Halo3 as well--which doesn't even look as good! (and like it or not, graphics are a big sell with these next-gen consoles)

Ironically, I didn't buy a 360 for Gears...but I came VERY close last night to buying a 360 for Halo3. There are a few people where Halo3 won't be the reason they buy a 360, but it will push things "over the edge" and pass a threshold where the person can say "Well, I guess now I can buy it and get Gears, Halo3, Bioshock, etc.."

But each gamer's threshold is different, I don't think it will be a massive flood just based on a single game.

[FreePlay]

I bought the console because it was hackable, not because of Halo 3. This is why I haven't got a PS3 yet - official 'homebrew' support is lame :p

[Kumba]

shush des. this is exactly what i predicted. I said Nintendo's reliance on nostalgic games and its unwillingness to move forward into next gen gaming will backfire on it.

Say whatever you will, but it's the damn truth. Gamers are going to grow tired of kiddy poo nintendo and want to experience more powerful and adult games. that's just the way it is.

Define "gamers", please.

[maxRus]

I actually posted a similar reply on the cnet article. I made one point that I think is a better point that I forgot to make in my first post in this thread: I have a hard time imagining that there are many gamers that were holding their breath for Halo3, who wouldn't have bought a 360 to play Gears of War.. Since Gears is aimed at the same type of gamer...and it enjoyed critical success, great word of mouth, and aggressive marketing last holiday season..

I think the gamer who could resist that, would probably stand a good chance of resisting Halo3 as well--which doesn't even look as good! (and like it or not, graphics are a big sell with these next-gen consoles)

Ironically, I didn't buy a 360 for Gears...but I came VERY close last night to buying a 360 for Halo3. There are a few people where Halo3 won't be the reason they buy a 360, but it will push things "over the edge" and pass a threshold where the person can say "Well, I guess now I can buy it and get Gears, Halo3, Bioshock, etc.."

But each gamer's threshold is different, I don't think it will be a massive flood just based on a single game.



Good Point!

[miserabillis]

I bought the console because it was hackable, not because of Halo 3. This is why I haven't got a PS3 yet - official 'homebrew' support is lame :p
yes exactly alot of ppl here and specially in countries(im not trying to offend) where they dont make much they dont and wont buy ps3 until hombrew no matter what...ive been there alot and most of my frnds dont care aboout games and consoles they just says"the momnent its hackable ill buy it if never hackable i will never buy it"

[iratasan]

shush des. this is exactly what i predicted. I said Nintendo's reliance on nostalgic games and its unwillingness to move forward into next gen gaming will backfire on it.

Say whatever you will, but it's the damn truth. Gamers are going to grow tired of kiddy poo nintendo and want to experience more powerful and adult games. that's just the way it is.

well, i guss that depends on what you consider an adult game. by now i have seen and played enough halo's, farcries, street fighters, metal gear solids, devil may cries, NBA games, FIFAs.... etc to last a lifetime. so, if you are really a gamer of the first hour by now you should have grown out of those series and those types of games in general.

as an adult i don't have the time anymore to waste a whole day on seeking other people online to shoot em down. those innovative wii games are a very fresh new start when 95% of games on other consoles are just re-works of the same stuff we have seen and played for ages.

about the sales, we will see. xbox 360 and ps3 have major flaws at the moment so i don't see the wii's throne crumbling in the near future.

from a commercial point of view, this is one major hit, until final fantasy on the ps3 comes out and until super mario galaxy comes out and then the whole butt-talking starts all over again.

[Adopted]

Come for Halo3, stay for Gears and Bioshock.

Never underestimate the power of Mplayer IMO. I only picked up Halo3 for the co-op and the inevitable LAN Party.

[allybally]

I actually posted a similar reply on the cnet article. I made one point that I think is a better point that I forgot to make in my first post in this thread: I have a hard time imagining that there are many gamers that were holding their breath for Halo3, who wouldn't have bought a 360 to play Gears of War.. Since Gears is aimed at the same type of gamer...and it enjoyed critical success, great word of mouth, and aggressive marketing last holiday season..

I think the gamer who could resist that, would probably stand a good chance of resisting Halo3 as well--which doesn't even look as good! (and like it or not, graphics are a big sell with these next-gen consoles)

Ironically, I didn't buy a 360 for Gears...but I came VERY close last night to buying a 360 for Halo3. There are a few people where Halo3 won't be the reason they buy a 360, but it will push things "over the edge" and pass a threshold where the person can say "Well, I guess now I can buy it and get Gears, Halo3, Bioshock, etc.."

But each gamer's threshold is different, I don't think it will be a massive flood just based on a single game.

Ofcourse Halo 3 is goanna be a system seller... But proportional ONLY for gamers... Not like the Nintendo Wii.. I have seen freakin´ mom´s buy those small son of a bitches :D ....

But then again, its not ONLY halo 3 that is attractive... I think many gamers (just like you said) will include multiple games in their consideration of buying the 360... Halo 3 may just be the drop that makes the glass spill :p

[Shin555]

?I couldn't help myself from not posting...blame the news pic...lol

All i'm saying is Super Mario World now that is the best game ever....beat Halo any day of the week.

[Mikeyy]

Without being all fanboy lets be REALISTIC. Halo is Xbox's no. 1 franchise.

Out of the 11.6 million 360 owners, 3/4 of them are probally going to buy Halo 3. Microsoft expects to sell 10 million copies, So being realistic. Halo3 is only going to sell 3 million more new 360s.

Anybody dissagree?

[MadMax31]

Wii, will continue to sell like hotcakes, I like how many anal-ists always predict that the wii will fade away in time... make me laugh, about the stupidity, nintendo has learn from the past mistakes (media format, developer support, online sort of :o, playing with the big guys), when they really begin to fall, they will release a new product with HD support and better graphics (and because it's in the future, cheaper to manufacture), anyway that's what I think it would be a smart move for them (gameboy series anyone :rolleyes:)... :D

[iratasan]

for most people that don't already own a 360 halo 3 is just another shooter. if you haven't bought a 360 for gears or bioshock then i highly doubt that you start feeling that you just can't live without one anymore just because halo 3 was released.

[switchg3ar]

The sad thing is I bought Halo 3 and I don't even have 360 I just bought into the hype

[mystic54]

I bought Halo 3 too, completely free of bias as im not a halo freak, and quite honestly MP3 is more fun for Wii, and the graphics, despite the HD, are kind of not much better than MP3 either, quite honestly and i yes halo 3 has many objects on screen at once - especially mid game - however to me it is just a FPS game, the highlights being the vehicles imo, that is what makes the game different imo. Note i am talking about the campaign/coop mode, as i dont like the other kind of multiplayer (not everyone does).
I dont think halo3 will seal xb360 fate, and if it does Mario Galaxy and Smash Bros end of the year will do just enough to counter that, especially outside the Usa.

Nobody is ever completely free of bias, but Halo is more about the multiplayer experience in the long run.

[danight]

Without being all fanboy lets be REALISTIC. Halo is Xbox's no. 1 franchise.

Out of the 11.6 million 360 owners, 3/4 of them are probally going to buy Halo 3. Microsoft expects to sell 10 million copies, So being realistic. Halo3 is only going to sell 3 million more new 360s.

Anybody dissagree?

But you also have to look at this as a holiday thing as well. I mean when the kid goes telling santa (incase anyone still believes :) )what game system they want. Remember their cool freinds are playing bioshock, gears of war, eternal sanata, mass effect and of course halo 3. they will not wanna be the left out kid and will be asking for it for x-mas. I mean a 360 plus any of those games will make a kid very happy.

So i think figures now are not just a factor but holidays with all these great games to choose from will increase sales beyond expect perportions and expectations.

[DaFireStarter]

The sad thing is I bought Halo 3 and I don't even have 360 I just bought into the hype

Nominate this for funniest post this year!

[RomTheStampede]

Halo 3 is just a fad....

Super Smash Bros Brawl will bring the Wii even higher! I mean look at Super Smash Bros Melee? It's still selling and being played as we speak.... Imagine SSBB?

Nintendo don't wanna hype it up coz rly MS is being immature and prolly paying ppl to rate it as game of the year... *cough* BS *cough* It makes me sick seeing Halo 3 franchises everywhere i go.. damn jeez.. did MS need the cash soo badly?

[benny32]

:confused:

First of all,

LOL at Cnet, being a paid presitute must really pay well at that place. ;)

Second of all,

This is absolutely overstating Halo 3. It will move consoles, you know what else will? Smash Bros. You cant judge a consoles success on one games success...

The majority of sheeple console purchases are on "wow this is kinda cool" not "omg this is teh hardocrez!". Mainstream gamers dont play games as much, thus wii is the console of choice for the herd. Not that i'm complaining, I cant wait to get a wii for myself :)

[Critical_Impact]

I'd buy a 360 but seeing nearlly everyone I know has had there console fail at least once I'm going to steer clear for a long long time.

[Brandogg]

The Wii was the number one console last month in North America, selling as much as XBox 360 and PS3 combined? How are those "falling sales"?

[grapeape]

Halo 3 is just a fad....

Super Smash Bros Brawl will bring the Wii even higher! I mean look at Super Smash Bros Melee? It's still selling and being played as we speak.... Imagine SSBB?

Nintendo don't wanna hype it up coz rly MS is being immature and prolly paying ppl to rate it as game of the year... *cough* BS *cough* It makes me sick seeing Halo 3 franchises everywhere i go.. damn jeez.. did MS need the cash soo badly?

Meanwhile Halo 3 fans are stating Super Smash Brothers Brawl is just a fad...everyone has opinions. I liked the last one but I dont see what is so different with this one just slightly better graphics, improved multiplayer, a few new characters, and new backdrops. Kinda sounds like Halo 3 actually. Well except you have to deal with Nintendo's crippled idea of online play and have no way to communicate with people your playing with. Super Smash Brothers is getting kids meals at Wendy's and will be advertised everywhere so dont worry you will see enough of it to get sick of that too.

I agree though SSBB will be a good test to judge just what percentage of real gamers are grabbing Wii's versus people who just bought into the controller and wii sports.

[yourM0M1]

Haha, just wait till Smash is launched in December, right before Christmas! Then we'll see who will be outselling who.

everyone waiting for smash already has their wii......




and i agree with this article due to the fact that this past week is the FIRST time ive seen a wii console sitting on a store shelf in orlando,fl. and there were actually 3 at walmart on monday evening....either they kicked up shipments a bit early or the sales have fallen

[untime]

Wow what an unprofesionnal claim !! Cnet is on Ziff Davis network who is the biggest money whore of all internet beside IGN network. It's pretty hard to believe their claim. Specially when microsoft bought NASDAQ for publicity :eek: .Of course X360 sell more console, Halo 3 came out, same thing in japan with PSP and Final fantasy 7 Crisis Core. That doesnt mean this sell boost gonna last . As for Nintendo Wii guess what people ?? One day there are not gonna be sold out anymore !!!! WOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS !!! That doesn't mean the console goes bad. And btw I still can't get a Wii at my local store.

It's all about game and we got a proof here. But as long M$ TOP3 games gonna be first person shooter there not gonna sell well. There biggest card is out. What's next ?

[LeGioN1202]

Ok, so Halo 3 alone is going to power sales for the next few years...


Right...

I see nothing else big in their lineup... not even really for 08.

How is that a "good position"?

[asdf3d3d]

great that ms is doing well with halo, but lets face it, nintendo will sweep xmas once again(you cant beat the wii+ds combo) i have soccer moms at work now telling me how much they like playing wii.

so what if all these great games are anounced for xbox for this xmas, its tradition that they will get delayed, ahem look at UTs bullcrap excuse, there will be more. the only one i really hope doesnt get pushed back is rockband, even still id settle for guitar hero3 and rockband later on.

[krawhitham]

shush des. this is exactly what i predicted. I said Nintendo's reliance on nostalgic games and its unwillingness to move forward into next gen gaming will backfire on it.


I would not say it backfired, Nintendo made money on every system they sold unlike MS and Sony. Nintendo is making money hand over fist and the Wii will do just fine until Nintendo releases the Wii 2 with HD graphics. They will be doing so a couple years after MS and Sony so the new Nintendo HD machine will once again be very cheap and they will most likely make money on each unit once again.

[krawhitham]

This is absolutely overstating Halo 3. It will move consoles, you know what else will? Smash Bros.

Most of the core mario fans already have a Wii, so it will not be pushing new systems out the door

[grapeape]

Ok, so Halo 3 alone is going to power sales for the next few years...


Right...

I see nothing else big in their lineup... not even really for 08.

How is that a "good position"?

We know...that ones getting kinda tired...you dont like anything in the lineup, you see nothing big, eternal sonata is going to the ps3...yadda yadda yadda....in the meantime people list tons of games that are strong titles....lather rinse repeat.

The only game I see as big enough for me to buy a PS3 is a year away, but im sure there are titles others will buy and enjoy and I dont feel the need to constantly express my lack of enthusiasm everytime a thread pops up...you really dont think titles like Mass Effect, Ace Combat 6, PGR4, World in Conflict and Lost Odyssey will sell this year and Alan Wake, Dead Island, Ninja Gaiden 2, Legendary The Box, Too Human, Infinite Undiscovery, Left for Dead, Huxley, Marvel Universe Online, Banjo 3, Splinter Cell 5, etc wont sell next year?

[yourM0M1]

after a quick look on ign (the only place that i could come across with a decent/accurate coming soon list) the wii will be wiping the floor with both consoles combined as far as amount of titles coming out....105 wii, 56 360, and 47 ps3

so the wii should deff hold a lead just with the shear amount of titles that will be on store shelves...titles that arent geared towards hardcore gamers also.....i mean come on JENGA?? lol

guess ill be getting a wii sooner than later after looking this list


edit: i think post #43 is confused with the ps3

[dee]

Maybe now M$ will release the falcon motherboard for the 360, now that people are buying all these defective equipment. I predict a lot of people are going to experience the RROD and send their 360's back to M$ to have them fix it. It looks like its going to get ugly, maybe a class action lawsuit will ensue.

[sigma8]

Without being all fanboy lets be REALISTIC. Halo is Xbox's no. 1 franchise.

Out of the 11.6 million 360 owners, 3/4 of them are probally going to buy Halo 3. Microsoft expects to sell 10 million copies, So being realistic. Halo3 is only going to sell 3 million more new 360s.

Anybody dissagree?

I think 1-2 million, but more or less, I agree.

[Mr.Do!]

all these analysts are very short sighted. They see the latest game come out for the latest system... then its this system will be the best for ever.. They barely research their claims.. Its all about jumping on the latest bandwagon to get their names out there to justify their otherwise unjustifiable salaries..

All consoles will do well.. It doesnt seem like the wii is going to be stunted or limitied due to its so called lack of power.. The DS/Wii combo was a very smart move and a lot of good (and not so good) games are coming out for it.

[Xenogears V]

Yes, but after...... the nothing...:(

[*StoneCold*]

Don Reisinger of Cnet believes that Halo 3 will seal the fate of the Xbox 360, which in his opinion is looking very good. He states that like Mario games in the 90's and Final Fantasy series movied a heck of a lot of consoles, Halo 3 is the only reason why a number of gamers will buy a next-generation console. So he asks people to re-think their actions before they go off shouting that the Wii will be the best ever selling next-gen console as Wii's sales are falling and Xbox 360 sales are on the up with things only getting better as Halo 3 has just been launched.



News Source: <A href=http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13506_1-9783413-17.html" target="_blank">cnet</a>

So since the Wii dropped off in Japan then that automatically means the 360 is going to win???

This guy seems to be really full of crap and i will say why, 1st off the Wii has dropped in japan but so has every other console by the looks of things! and 2nd the 360's sales only rose when halo 3 came out and it STILL wont beat the wii, the wii is hitting almost half a million a month in America so how the hell is its sales getting smaller???

[kmoed]

shush des. this is exactly what i predicted. I said Nintendo's reliance on nostalgic games and its unwillingness to move forward into next gen gaming will backfire on it.

Say whatever you will, but it's the damn truth. Gamers are going to grow tired of kiddy poo nintendo and want to experience more powerful and adult games. that's just the way it is.

What a load,
HALO 3 is a kiddie game, There is nothing adult or the way over used"hardcore" about it. The most over hyped sub par video game ever released. It is to video games what the spice girls is to music. All fluff no substance.

Nintendo is the ONLY company that has moved into Next Gen Gaming, the other two are same old, same old. What innovation has either Sony or MS brought to the table...Nothing.