HD DVD: We're Not at War with Blu-ray

[Zeus]

While discussing the first network enabled movie titles with the HD DVD Group, Nate Mook of 'Betanews' claims that one remark struck him - HD-DVD stated that it is not at war with the Blu-ray format and couldn't care less for Sony's format. Further to this, a member believes that once HD DVD hits 1 million stand alone players sold, then exclusivity will not matter as studios will simply go where the money is.


As I sat in a Washington, D.C. hotel suite earlier this month demoing and discussing the first network-enabled movie titles with the HD DVD group, one remark struck me: HD DVD says it is not at war with Blu-ray and seemingly has little concern over Sony’s format.

It’s hard to miss the ping pong game of rhetoric between the promotion groups pushing HD DVD and Blu-ray. From sales figures to exclusive deals, press releases are churned out almost daily. The so-called “format war” is Betamax and VHS redux - at least that’s what the media wants you to think.

Microsoft’s Collins noted that once HD DVD hits 1 million set top players sold, which could happen before the end of the year, none of the exclusivity will matter, because the studios will go where the money is. Currently, sold players total over 500,000 - largely due to recent price drops and free movie deals.


News Source: <A href="http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_Were_Not_at_War_with_Bluray/1187630265" target="_blank">Betanews.com</a>

[Gambit]

So it's not a war since HD DVD is losing?

[daps83777]

So it's not a war since HD DVD is losing?

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?p=641680&posted=1#post641680

paramount and dreamworks just turned their backs on blu-ray and are going hd-dvd exclusive.

[crono]

"Microsoft’s Collins noted that once HD DVD hits 1 million set top players sold, which could happen before the end of the year, none of the exclusivity will matter, because the studios will go where the money is."

EEEhhh arn't there like 3 milion ps3 sold already whitch mean 3 milion blu-ray players being sold,witch must mean they are already the winner!!! :p

[whackawookie]

"Microsoft’s Collins noted that once HD DVD hits 1 million set top players sold, which could happen before the end of the year, none of the exclusivity will matter, because the studios will go where the money is."

EEEhhh arn't there like 3 milion ps3 sold already whitch mean 3 milion blu-ray players being sold,witch must mean they are already the winner!!! :p

people buy standalone players with only watching movies in mind. Sony released a comment a few days ago that everybody that has a ps3 has atleast 1 movie purchased. if you buy a standalone then you have more then one movie bought so eventhough people can play bluray on the ps3 its not its sole purpose

[ASSPOP]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6200/lmaopwntwk6.jpg

[crono]

LOL

Well i have the ps3 whit 1 game and 6 blu-ray movies. :rolleyes: god dammend make some good ps3 games. :mad:

[adamlowery]

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6200/lmaopwntwk6.jpg

So hd-dvd gets all the huge summer blockbusters exlusively and what does blugay get....disney cartoons. ::borat voice:: VERY NICE!!!!

[Eric10301]

So hd-dvd gets all the huge summer blockbusters exlusively and what does blugay get....disney cartoons. ::borat voice:: VERY NICE!!!!

Guess you are forgetting the #1 movie for 2007. Spider-Man 3

[kcvfr400]

So hd-dvd gets all the huge summer blockbusters exlusively and what does blugay get....disney cartoons. ::borat voice:: VERY NICE!!!!

Have you forgotten about spiderman 3, pirates 3, simpsons movie and die hard 4. Are none of those blu-ray exclusive big titles then as I am sure pirates and spiderman alone have been hugely successful franchises without the unknown of simpsons popularity in film format and the dirty vest still can pull the crowd lol.

[CZroe]

exclusivity will matter, because the studios will go where the money is

And just where is that money for the studios? Oh yeah! It's on whichever format sells more movies regardless of the install base. This is why I laugh inside any time someone says that only stand-alone player sales count. Yeah, once the PS3 is no longer the best BD player deal around, THEN weekly/monthly player sales will be more meaningful, but clearly even then comparing the install player base is not as important as comparig dual-format disc sales.

Clearly, the circumstances for BD are different with the primary player being a console with most buyers buying it for other purposes, but movie sales clearly indicate that they DO amount to something as they are clearly more than making up the difference. They aren't just assisting in gaining a tie for the format with fewer stand-alone players sold, because they've managed in allowing it to outsell a movie available for a larger install base... and by a consistant margin (nearly 2-1)!

BTW, I am AGAINST removing XBOX 360 HD-DVD player sales from HD-DVD installed player numbers because it's only purpose is playing HD-DVD movies (same as a stand-alone player). That doesn't mean I'm "for" including PS3s in the BD player sales numbers (I think they are irrelevant compared to movie sales), but it is possible to mathematically create a formula that shows about how many fractional HD-DVD players a single PS3 sale is equivalent to at the moment by using BD movie sales compared to the HD-DVD versions sales then dividing the equivalent amount of standalone players for the excess amount of a title sold across the PS3 install base. It clearly shows that the "equivalent" install base for BD is far greater than HD-DVD in calculations that actually figure and factor out the amount currently used for gaming. And once again, the average amount per player is irrelevant to a studio, so it doesn't matter if reality actually means that sales are spread out by selling to a larger amount of owners: larger sales are larger sales.

The problem with this statistic is that things will improve for the PS3 as a BD player as more long-time PS3 owners buy HDTVs or upgrade to 1080p through the years.

[ASSPOP]

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/1690/lmaopwnt2mn7.jpg

[sigma8]

Not at war?

So Collins has proved nothing other than he is fluent in lyingbastardese.

$150million in bribes says HD-DVD knows it's at war.

[Jar Jar Insano]

The guy has a good point. It's whoever has more players out there is gonna win this. Look at 360 vs ps3. how many exclusives did they lose because they have a small install base compared to 360.

[cardboardbox]

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?p=641680&posted=1#post641680

paramount and dreamworks just turned their backs on blu-ray and are going hd-dvd exclusive.you seem to quite enthusiastic today even though you believe we dont need anything more than dvd.

[daps83777]

you seem to quite enthusiastic today even though you believe we dont need anything more than dvd.

enthusiastic? i have posted on things that are fact. and i'm not the one that uses stupid words like xbot, that would be you.

[cardboardbox]

enthusiastic? i have posted on things that are fact? and i'm not the one that uses stupid words like xbot, that would be you.ooooh, defensive are we? Must have hit on the truth there. You suddenly posted a lot on the some subject with no hint of your beliefs that we dont need hd movies and neither format will outlive dvd.

[CZroe]

The guy has a good point. It's whoever has more players out there is gonna win this. Look at 360 vs ps3. how many exclusives did they lose because they have a small install base compared to 360.

No, I said exactly the opposite. Well, I guess I didn't if you factor the PS3's contribution as some sort of player. ;) What I said was that the studios will go with whichever format makes them more money. Why would they sell less movies on one format and make LESS money just because Toshiba got more players sold? It wouldn't matter if Toshiba sold ten times more *IF* that wasn't able to sell a single additional movie (in reality, it would sell more, but that's not the point... *IF*).

As I wrote it, MaxConsole updated with the news of Paramount and their studios going HD-DVD exclusive. Now, what was their incentive? They claim that it is because players are cheaper, and yet they know that that is only temporary. They are not invested in the player sales at all and they sell far more on Blu-Ray, so what is the *REAL* reason? Oh yeah: The $150,000,000 Toshiba & the HD-DVD group paid them for exclusivity through 2008. Because the market can't possibly grow as fast as DVD, this is a number that is probably greater than the amount they will lose from Blu-Ray movie sales (some will be converted to HD-DVD movie sales). THAT is their incentive. THAT = Profit. Right now, without motivators like Toshiba subsidizing player sales and paying off studios, the money for studios is on Blu-Ray format due to sales twice as high. Toshiba's losses on both player sales and (desperately needed) studio support are not sustainable: This is a last-ditch effort that will sputter out in 2008.

[daps83777]

ooooh, defensive are we? Must have hit on the truth there. You suddenly posted a lot on the some subject with no hint of your beliefs that we dont need hd movies and neither format will outlive dvd.

defensive? no just not an idiot that uses gamer baby talk liked owned or pwnd or xbot.

i don't even own an hdtv so i could care less about the hd format war. though PS3 guys acting like idiots is getting old.

300 sold what under 300,000 copies on hd formats combined and what on dvd sold what? how many millions? i think its around almost 7 million sales on dvd now. yeah those hd formats are selling so close to standard dvd.

[cardboardbox]

No, I said exactly the opposite. Well, I guess I didn't if you factor the PS3's contribution as some sort of player. ;) What I said was that the studios will go with whichever format makes them more money. Why would they sell less movies on one format and make LESS money just because Toshiba got more players sold? It wouldn't matter if Toshiba sold ten times more *IF* that wasn't able to sell a single additional movie (in reality, it would sell more, but that's not the point... *IF*).

As I wrote it, MaxConsole updated with the news of Paramount and their studios going HD-DVD exclusive. Now, what was their incentive? They claim that it is because players are cheaper, and yet they know that that is only temporary. They are not invested in the player sales at all and they sell far more on Blu-Ray, so what is the *REAL* reason? Oh yeah: The $150,000,000 Toshiba & the HD-DVD group paid them for exclusivity through 2008. Because the market can't possibly grow as fast as DVD, this is a number that is probably greater than the amount they will lose from Blu-Ray movie sales (some will be converted to HD-DVD movie sales). THAT is their incentive. THAT = Profit. Right now, without motivators like Toshiba subsidizing player sales and paying off studios, the money for studios is on Blu-Ray format due to sales twice as high. Toshiba's losses on both player sales and (desperately needed) studio support are not sustainable: This is a last-ditch effort that will sputter out in 2008.Paramount did the math and is thinking that they will come out ahead with the $150M in lieu of bluray movies sales. Its not a bad gamble, getting the money up front and taking the chance that hddvd sales pick up.

[cardboardbox]

defensive? no just not an idiot that uses gamer baby talk liked owned or pwnd or xbot.

i don't even own an hdtv so i could care less about the hd format war. though PS3 guys acting like idiots is getting old.

300 sold what under 300,000 copies on hd formats combined and what on dvd sold what? how many millions? i think its around almost 7 million sales on dvd now. yeah those hd formats are selling so close to standard dvd.there you go... now I wonder why you didnt spew any of that in the "Paramount goes HDVD" threads. BTW - I dont mind if you insult me. Just proves my point.

[KainXS]

defensive? no just not an idiot that uses gamer baby talk liked owned or pwnd or xbot.

i don't even own an hdtv so i could care less about the hd format war. though PS3 guys acting like idiots is getting old.

300 sold what under 300,000 copies on hd formats combined and what on dvd sold what? how many millions? i think its around almost 7 million sales on dvd now. yeah those hd formats are selling so close to standard dvd.

gotta agree with ya

as far as hd goes, its not really needed, i can understand these formats being used for games but an hd movie will fit n a dvd9 just fine

[daps83777]

there you go... now I wonder why you didnt spew any of that in the "Paramount goes HDVD" threads. BTW - I dont mind if you insult me. Just proves my point.

proves your point? that you think i am supporting hd-dvd or what? also i can get defensive if you call me out.

How does it feel to get OwN3D? You are just spewing trash out of your mouth rite now, because as far as his post goes..... no where did I see him mentioning M$ or Xbox, let alone the term "Xbot". Getting owned makes you say silly things sometimes, it's OK, you'll get used to that feeling pretty soon.

i'm not talking about him using the xbot term on this thread but he has used it in other threads. and to be honest i don't care what you think because you are definately an an immature person that uses HaX0rZ in your user name. puts you up there with nimbus.

[cardboardbox]

proves your point? that you think i am supporting hd-dvd or what? also i can get defensive if you call me out.plain to see isnt it?
i'm not talking about him using the xbot term on this thread but he has used it in other threads. and to be honest i don't care what you think because you are definately an an immature person that uses HaX0rZ in your user name. puts you up there with nimbus.oh noes! I typed xbot in another thread!! Earth to dapsy, its easy to type xbot than "microsoft xbox 360 fanboy."

[daps83777]

plain to see isnt it?
oh noes! I typed xbot in another thread!! Earth to dapsy, its easy to type xbot than "microsoft xbox 360 fanboy."

how old are you 4? i like all the different consoles i could care less which hd format wins. i don't use stupid fanboy terms. and if you weren't a fanboy for something you wouldn't use the PS3 fanboy term to call 360 fans xbots. why can't people shut up and play games and not care what stupid console they are on. they should just care about the good games and being able to play them. same goes with movies. who gives a crap what format it is in. as long as you get to see them.

[cardboardbox]

how old are you 4? i like all the different consoles i could care less which hd format wins. i don't use stupid fanboy terms. and if you weren't a fanboy for something you wouldn't use the PS3 fanboy term to call 360 fans xbots. why can't people shut up and play games and not care what stupid console they are on. they should just care about the good games and being able to play them. same goes with movies. who gives a crap what format it is in. as long as you get to see them.arent we getting excited? Too much Paramount+HD-DVD news for one day?

Yes I'm 4. Do you feel better now?

[daps83777]

arent we getting excited? Too much Paramount+HD-DVD news for one day?

Yes I'm 4. Do you feel better now?

i notice you love putting words into people's mouth's. really where did i show excitement seriously? now you would have been like pwnd you stupid xbots!!!! but i didn't use an exclamation point or anything. i think you need to come back to reality and stop seeing things.

[jerzmob]

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?p=641680&posted=1#post641680

paramount and dreamworks just turned their backs on blu-ray and are going hd-dvd exclusive.

exactly. it's funny how HD-DVD are declaring this and with a hand of Gates/M$ they still want to keep it going. Blu Ray wins and it has been proven. Chronicles of Riddick and King Kong didn't save it so what makes them think Shrek is going to do it. Once they are out they have to pay up Paramount and dreamworks for the deal they established. Great on Paramount and Dreamworks part.

[daps83777]

exactly. it's funny how HD-DVD are declaring this and with a hand of Gates/M$ they still want to keep it going. Blu Ray wins and it has been proven. Chronicles of Riddick and King Kong didn't save it so what makes them think Shrek is going to do it. Once they are out they have to pay up Paramount and dreamworks for the deal they established. Great on Paramount and Dreamworks part.

i think in the end this splits it worse. i didn't think either format could take over for standard dvd before. in alot of ways this makes it worse because this makes everything get drawn out.

its also blockbuster is owned by viacom and so are paramount and dreamworks, so it makes you wonder if the blu-ray exclusive in store rentals will change seeing as viacom has apparently changed their minds.

[cardboardbox]

i notice you love putting words into people's mouth's. really where did i show excitement seriously? now you would have been like pwnd you stupid xbots!!!! but i didn't use an exclamation point or anything. i think you need to come back to reality and stop seeing things.not seeing anything but someone who repeatedly talked down HD movies when bluray was clearly winning go post crazy when a movie studio switches to HDDVD.

But I'm 4, why should it matter?

[daps83777]

not seeing anything but someone who repeatedly talked down HD movies when bluray was clearly winning go post crazy when a movie studio switches to HDDVD.

But I'm 4, why should it matter?

i post on blu-ray threads and give numbers for things for them to. maybe you just like to argue.

oh and congrats on admitting your only 4.

[daps83777]

Wow...... childish arguments..... what a loser.

its childish posting things for both sides. yeah thats so childish.

[cardboardbox]

Will someone give me a hug? He just said I'm 4 and my feelings are hurt! :p

[daps83777]

Will someone give me a hug? He just said I'm 4 and my feelings are hurt! :p

you also said your 4. :rolleyes:

But I'm 4, why should it matter?

maybe you should give yourself a hug. i hear its therapeutic. and you did insult yourself by saying your 4.

[cardboardbox]

you also said your 4. :rolleyes:I thought you'd feel better if you thought I was at your level.

[daps83777]

I thought you'd feel better if you thought I was at your level.

see you argue and people bash me because i will defend by giving pro's of something, but i will also give the cons of something. fanboys hate that. they don't want us to like everything. they want us to like what they like and hate everything else.

i'm not going to do that. everything has plus and minuses and nothing is perfect. but bash away. because i am being childish if i don't act like a raving fanboy that uses your fanboy terms. maybe you should do some self reflection.

[CZroe]

Paramount did the math and is thinking that they will come out ahead with the $150M in lieu of bluray movies sales. Its not a bad gamble, getting the money up front and taking the chance that hddvd sales pick up.

Yup. I wager that they made the right choice as far as profits are concerned. They couldn't care less about the health of the industry as far as one format competing with another because they aren't invested in player sales. If a BD buyer really wants their movies and BD takes off over 2008, that buyer will just have to wait until 2009 to buy them and Paramount will make the sale regardless (and be $150 million richer in the end).

[cardboardbox]

see you argue and people bash me because i will defend by giving pro's of something, but i will also give the cons of something. fanboys hate that. they don't want us to like everything. they want us to like what they like and hate everything else.

i'm not going to do that. everything has plus and minuses and nothing is perfect. but bash away. because i am being childish if i don't act like a raving fanboy that uses your fanboy terms. maybe you should do some self reflection.self reflection told me you are fanboy. Anything else you'd like to know?

[cardboardbox]

Yup. I wager that they made the right choice as far as profits are concerned. They couldn't care less about the health of the industry as far as one format competing with another because they aren't invested in player sales. If a BD buyer really wants their movies and BD takes off over 2008, that buyer will just have to wait until 2009 to buy them and Paramount will make the sale regardless (and be $150 million richer in the end).what do you think Bluray will respond with? Certainly they cant sit on their thumbs and assume they will still win.

[daps83777]

self reflection told me you are fanboy. Anything else you'd like to know?

your the fanboy. i'm not. based on your posts your own judgement doesn't seem very good.

you double post all the time as well, which is really bad forum manners. everyone knows you can do multiple quotes in a post. you don't need to start a new one for every single little thing.

[CZroe]

what do you think Bluray will respond with? Certainly they cant sit on their thumbs and assume they will still win.

Well, considering that they already own three major studios for exclusivity and have other exclusive studios (Disney/Buena Vista is still more important than Paramount/Viacom), I doubt they need any more exclusivity. They DO need more content, so I'm expecting them to either pay Universal for going dual-format or pay Warner for more Blu-Ray support (too may HD-DVD exclusives for a so-called neutral company... Matrix Trillogy, Batman Begins, etc). That said, as Toshiba suspects, I think they were already paying off Warner for their current level of support and Warner is still pushing their curiously-delayed TotalHD (combo format including BD/HD-DVD instead of DVD/HD-DVD).

Even if it's a third option: You're right. They can't just sit there, especially if this means that Blockbuster will reverse their Blu-Ray stance due to being owned by Viacom.

[cardboardbox]

your the fanboy. i'm not. based on your posts your own judgement doesn't seem very good. youre right, I am a fanboy. I'm a fan of good games, good movies, and HDTV. Cant say the same for you I'm afraid.

you double post all the time as well, which is really bad forum manners. everyone knows you can do multiple quotes in a post. you don't need to start a new one for every single little thing.OH NOES! The double post police!!!

[cardboardbox]

Well, considering that they already own three major studios for exclusivity and have other exclusive studios (Disney/Buena Vista is still more important than Paramount/Viacom), I doubt they need any more exclusivity. They DO need more content, so I'm expecting them to either pay Universal for going dual-format or pay Warner for more Blu-Ray support (too may HD-DVD exclusives for a so-called neutral company... Matrix Trillogy, Batman Begins, etc). That said, as Toshiba suspects, I think they were already paying off Warner for their current level of support and Warner is still pushing their curiously-delayed TotalHD (combo format including BD/HD-DVD instead of DVD/HD-DVD).

Even if it's a third option: You're right. They can't just sit there, especially if this means that Blockbuster will reverse their Blu-Ray stance due to being owned by Viacom.I would suspect some money going to Warner or Universal to get them to be exclusive or multiformat respectively. Or another option would be to just lower prices. Attempt to match HDDVD standalone player and movie prices. But Sony (assuming they determine the course of Bluray) seems slow to respond to changes in the market and while it would surprise me if they did nothing from a business standpoint, it wouldnt surprise me if they did nothing because of what they've done in the past.

[daps83777]

youre right, I am a fanboy. I'm a fan of good games, good movies, and HDTV. Cant say the same for you I'm afraid.

OH NOES! The double post police!!!

so what am i a fanboy of? i'm sure your going to say the 360 but i don't own one and don't plan on getting one anytime soon. i have an original xbox but only for xbmc and the xbox was given to me.

if anything i have been a huge sony fanboy in the past. i have bought up everything sony.

and i watch like 1 movie a month max. so i really don't care which format wins. though i still think either hd format is going to have an incredibly hard time taking over. especially now with the studios so split.

double posting is bannable on some forums and almost every forum gives a warning for it. maxconsole is one of the few i have seen let it go or not edit the posts into a single one and issue a warning.

i don't own an hdtv though i love stuff moving to digital as far as signal goes. i own a sdtv with a digital tuner because of the reception and perfect picture alone. i get max quality on everything. and i rather prefer that than watching alot of non digital cable or dish on an lcd where it looks like crap. and i am not paying the crapload of money they expect for digital versions of those services.

[cardboardbox]

so what am i a fanboy of? i'm sure your going to say the 360 but i don't own one and don't plan on getting one anytime soon. i have an original xbox but only for xbmc and the xbox was given to me.you are a peculiar brand of fanboy I'll admit.
double posting is bannable on some forums and almost every forum gives a warning for it. maxconsole is one of the few i have seen let it go or not edit the posts into a single one and issue a warning.too funny. I'm on a ton of forums and no one has ever mentioned this. I think you hang out in the wrong places.

[grapeape]

I'm on a ton of forums and no one has ever mentioned this. I think you hang out in the wrong places.

Thats a new one to me too and I've been hanging around in forums and newsgroups since arpa days. I have seen a few forums that go a little nuts with rules...but they are usually just the result of semi-OCD power-tripping admins who spend more time screaming about top posting and spoiler alert type crap than posting actual useful information and conversation.

[daps83777]

you are a peculiar brand of fanboy I'll admit.
too funny. I'm on a ton of forums and no one has ever mentioned this. I think you hang out in the wrong places.

will i would deduct that because you love hd you probably aren't a huge fan of the wii. and you call 360 fans xbot's so i don't think you like it alot either. i have never seen you say anything bad about the PS3 so i would guess thats your poison of choice.

i hang out on blog sites sometimes for tech stuff like daps (digital audio players) or gaming blogs or forums. even audio forums like avs and talk about receivers or speakers, or even headphones. most of them don't allow double posting. there philosophy is you can say what you want and answer multiple people's questions in a single post. and there is no need to do it in multiple ones if you just take the time to do it in a single one. alot of people double or triple post to get high post counts which alot of admin's don't like either. it makes the poster look like he is a bigger part of the community than he is.

[cardboardbox]

will i would deduct that because you love hd you probably aren't a huge fan of the wii. and you call 360 fans xbot's so i don't think you like it alot either. i have never seen you say anything bad about the PS3 so i would guess thats your poison of choice.I have all three and like them all. 360 fans are not xbots... irrational 360 fans are xbots. I wouldnt call grapeape an xbot but he definitely likes his 360. I really dont say much bad about any system but I think the bots on this forum have the PS3 bashing covered for me even if I wanted to bash it.
alot of people double or triple post to get high post counts which alot of admin's don't like either. it makes the poster look like he is a bigger part of the community than he is.dont worry, I have no interest in passing your post total. I've got fat totals on other forums but i've always been in favor of no visible post totals.

[grapeape]

I have all three and like them all. 360 fans are not xbots... irrational 360 fans are xbots. I wouldnt call grapeape an xbot but he definitely likes his 360. I really dont say much bad about any system but I think the bots on this forum have the PS3 bashing covered for me even if I wanted to bash it.
dont worry, I have no interest in passing your post total. I've got fat totals on other forums but i've always been in favor of no visible post totals.

Yep I do...love my Wii too...I tend to like all my consoles, I even still buy ps2 games :) In fact im helping to organize and chaperone a guitar hero II (ps2 version) contest at the youth center in my town this weekend.

I've never understood the post count thing either...IMHO its easier to hit reply as I read than to read a couple pages of posts and cut and paste together a single confusing repsonse. Guess I wouldnt last long on those forums but seem to do ok in the ones I am on. If post counts ment anything Xenogears would be the king of maxconsole...

[Raist3d]

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showthread.php?p=641680&posted=1#post641680

paramount and dreamworks just turned their backs on blu-ray and are going hd-dvd exclusive.

That gives HD DVD a chance. The sad thing is, I am starting to get the impressions both formats will be around and we are heading well into a double standard. What a mess.

- Raist

[daps83777]

I have all three and like them all. 360 fans are not xbots... irrational 360 fans are xbots. I wouldnt call grapeape an xbot but he definitely likes his 360. I really dont say much bad about any system but I think the bots on this forum have the PS3 bashing covered for me even if I wanted to bash it.
dont worry, I have no interest in passing your post total. I've got fat totals on other forums but i've always been in favor of no visible post totals.

as far as games go right now i think the PS2 is still the best console. and it keeps getting rpg's that are surprising. like odin sphere and now persona 3 is getting huge reviews. there is also a new wild arms coming out on the PS2 at the end of the month. i love console rpg's and to be honest all three new consoles haven't really covered the rpg genre. so until then to me being an rpg guy the PS2 is still the best console. i prefer fps on pc so those don't appeal to me much on PS3 or 360.

and the PS2 keeps selling and games keep coming out of nowhere. its been said 4 or 5 times now that a game will be the last great game on the PS2.

i don't really care about post counts. i have alot of posts from before, during, and after different E3's. also been involved in some really huge threads where alot of us debate things. on most days i don't get alot of posts. as of late not even one a day. mainly only got multiple posts in a day if i argue with someone, like today. though i posted on the hd-dvd threads. but mainly just because i had some free time today.

i can praise what all the consoles are doing or bash them. like i said they all have pros and cons. if something does something right or wrong i have no problem with it. though as of lately some consoles have had more pros than others.

That gives HD DVD a chance. The sad thing is, I am starting to get the impressions both formats will be around and we are heading well into a double standard. What a mess.

- Raist

i hope not. if it takes to long it could give enough time for another format to emerge. or maybe at some point they would finally go back to talks about a unified format.

[Raist3d]

enthusiastic? i have posted on things that are fact. and i'm not the one that uses stupid words like xbot, that would be you.

You are always bashing Blue Ray and the next generation formats when all news are that Blue Ray is selling more. Then something good happens in HD DVD and you come forward.

Of course, we know what's going on, admitting it or not is academic :-)

- Raist

[daps83777]

You are always bashing Blue Ray and the next generation formats when all news are that Blue Ray is selling more. Then something good happens in HD DVD and you come forward.

Of course, we know what's going on, admitting it or not is academic :-)

- Raist

i don't bash blu-ray. i have pointed out its flaws, like its slow read speads on the PS3. also i have stated that people shouldn't get all excited about press releases about blu-ray sales because the sales of both formats are low enough it wouldn't take hardly anything to make one get a huge lead.

hd-dvd has flaws as wells. the one thing it has in its corner is price though. they use the same machines to make hd-dvd's as they do standard dvd's because it uses similiar technology so that of course gave it the price advantage. but capacity is an issue unless they keep upgrading players to use the multiple layers and can keep the price down. or they will have to cut the quality.

the only real way i did bash blu-ray is that i have said i wish it wouldn't have been included in the PS3. sony themselves said it raised the msrp $200 or more. so $200 or just to what the consumer pays. which means that the PS3 would have been the same price as the 360's two models.

i would have loved to have seen a $299 PS3. and that would have probably happened if blu-ray had been left out.

[cardboardbox]

You are always bashing Blue Ray and the next generation formats when all news are that Blue Ray is selling more. Then something good happens in HD DVD and you come forward.

Of course, we know what's going on, admitting it or not is academic :-)

- Raistamen bro. :)

[Mikeyy]

The guy has a good point. It's whoever has more players out there is gonna win this. Look at 360 vs ps3. how many exclusives did they lose because they have a small install base compared to 360.

Well The HDCAMP is fooling themselves, because they arent counting the PS3 as a player. With the ps3 counted Blu-ray has the majority of the players, and Blu-ray has the majority of Movie sales.

HD is loosing on all sides of this. You CAN'T convienently ignore the ps3 factor.

think about back with DVD and the PS2.

[daps83777]

Well The HDCAMP is fooling themselves, because they arent counting the PS3 as a player. With the ps3 counted Blu-ray has the majority of the players, and Blu-ray has the majority of Movie sales.

HD is loosing on all sides of this. You CAN'T convienently ignore the ps3 factor.

think about back with DVD and the PS2.

with the PS2 it was the best dvd player on the market and it was also the cheapest and it had no competition. this time around the PS3 is the cheapest blu-ray player, that i know of anyways, correct me if i am wrong i don't care, however the PS3 isn't the cheapest hd player.

also i read somewhere else that paramount also talked about how standalone hd-dvd players are significantly outselling blu-ray ones. at some point standalone blu-ray players need to sell and they haven't thus far.

it would also be interesting to see if paramount thinks that once the PS3 starts getting games if alot of those owners won't be purchasing very many movies anymore.

i think they are really looking at hd-dvd because they think that the hd-dvd players are getting cheaper faster and will hit a price friendly point sooner. my local costco is selling an hd-dvd player for under $300, and its not on sale or clearence. they are selling the blu-ray player for a little over $200 more if memory serves.

never underestimate price point. cheap sales. look at how huge walmart is. people like cheap things. look at the wii. its selling the best and its the cheapest new console. so if hd-dvd players get down to $150 or $100 and blu-ray ones are selling for $300 or more then it could turn the tides. this is speculation of course but its common sense that people adopt in mass when things are cheap. price is usually the deciding factor.

[cardboardbox]

my local costco is selling an hd-dvd player for under $300, and its not on sale or clearence.but its not on their website so it could just be a local or one time thing.
never underestimate price point. cheap sales. look at how huge walmart is. people like cheap things. look at the wii. its selling the best and its the cheapest new console. so if hd-dvd players get down to $150 or $100 and blu-ray ones are selling for $300 or more then it could turn the tides. this is speculation of course but its common sense that people adopt in mass when things are cheap. price is usually the deciding factor.generally the bluray standalone is 67% more so if there were a $150 hddvd player, I'd expect the bluray to be 250. $100 hddvd = 167 bluray.

After todays news, I would expect the bluray camp to stay within $100 of hddvd and/or bribe a studio like hddvd did.

[grapeape]

but its not on their website so it could just be a local or one time thing.
generally the bluray standalone is 67% more so if there were a $150 hddvd player, I'd expect the bluray to be 250. $100 hddvd = 167 bluray.

After todays news, I would expect the bluray camp to stay within $100 of hddvd and/or bribe a studio like hddvd did.

My local costco has the Toshiba HD-A2 (they call it the HD-D2 for some reason but its identical) for $299, they have been selling them since the first of the year. A while back they even had a rebate with it that brought it down to $249...I came >< that close to buying one...but chickened out.

[daps83777]

but its not on their website so it could just be a local or one time thing.
generally the bluray standalone is 67% more so if there were a $150 hddvd player, I'd expect the bluray to be 250. $100 hddvd = 167 bluray.

After todays news, I would expect the bluray camp to stay within $100 of hddvd and/or bribe a studio like hddvd did.

well at some point i would expect blu-ray would not be able to stay as close. seeing as hd-dvd is using dvd technology it is much cheaper than blu-ray. if blu-ray players wanted to keep pace they would probably have to do it at a loss.

[cardboardbox]

My local costco has the Toshiba HD-A2 (they call it the HD-D2 for some reason but its identical) for $299, they have been selling them since the first of the year. A while back they even had a rebate with it that brought it down to $249...I came >< that close to buying one...but chickened out.How does the $299 player compare to the ones for $899?

[cardboardbox]

well at some point i would expect blu-ray would not be able to stay as close. seeing as hd-dvd is using dvd technology it is much cheaper than blu-ray. if blu-ray players wanted to keep pace they would probably have to do it at a loss.in the how much does the PS3 cost thread, the drive was a little over $100 and the entire system was $630. Take out most of the logic, much of the ram, hard drive, wifi (not listed so i subtracted 20) and you have a standalone bluray player that costs $347. A better way to figure this out would be to assume the HD-DVD drive actually costs something ridiculously low like $20. That makes the Bluray drive $87 more expensive so just add that to the HDDVD standalone price and thats as close as they could get unless the bluray camp loses money on each unit. Assuming that most of the guts of the units are similar other than the optical drive.

This of course is assuming they want to lower the price. Sony has a different mindset than I do... I'd go to the mat with everyone in an attempt to destroy them by being as agressive with the price as I could be. They dont seem to feel the same way.

[grapeape]

How does the $299 player compare to the ones for $899?

I have no idea I still havent bought either one :)

[Xenogears V]

They are not in war because, the war and already ended, the Blu-Ray has already won!.

[Norlo]

A question for all the people arguing over which will ‘win’; Bluray or HD DVD.

Why do you even care who ‘wins’ this ridiculous ‘war’?:confused:

Do you stand to make money if one or the other format prevails? Will you sleep more soundly at night knowing that [insert preferred format here] wins or loses?

What you should be thinking about is that fact that the biggest loser in all this is ‘us’. The guy in the street with his cash in hand who just wants to watch his favourite films in HD. Why should we be forced to choose a format, and therefore which films we can watch in HD?

I personally, am not much of a movie buff, I just kinda take or leave it. But I will say this, fragmenting the movie industry like this is doing no one any favours. And by ‘no one’, I mean us, the paying consumer.

The games industry is used to this fragmentation (that does not make it right, but it's a fact), it has been so since the start. And as such, us gamers have becomes used to choosing a format. But for people who are into films, this is just left field, particular after the universal use of DVD. Movie lovers have become used to being able to go into a shop, grab the film and enjoy it – not think about formats and compatibility. The knock on effect of this is that most movie buffs (of which a couple of my mates are) are just going to sit on the fence until one format drops away, or a hybrid HD DVD/Bluray player is released at a realistic price.

And as a result of that, all that is being achieved here is that the adoption rate of either HD format is suffering.

[Punyetta]

They are not in war because, the war and already ended, the Blu-Ray has already won!.

That is a trademarked to Sony.I mean the "War is Over" bit.

[cardboardbox]

A question for all the people arguing over which will ‘win’; Bluray or HD DVD.

Why do you even care who ‘wins’ this ridiculous ‘war’?:confused:The quicker a single format is established, the quicker HD movies can go mainstream. Until yesterday, HD-DVD appeared to be dying but now the format war will likely be extended.