FOX News: 2.5 million Xbox 360's reported defective

[Zeus]

According to FOX news 10PM TV news report, an estimated 2.5 million Xbox 360's have been reported defective which has led to the estimation of the cost of the official three year warranty extension ending up at over $1 billion (USD) for MS.

<center><img src="http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/fxnewsradi.jpg"></center></a>

[des]

lol that means 25% of all 360s ... so the 33% wasnt even that far off...

[funnybutrandom]

lol that means 25% of all 360s ... so the 33% wasnt even that far off...

the remaining 75% is consoles that are still working, Diy fixes, banned from live, arnt used or have been smashed to peices :rolleyes:

[Quadzilla]

You would think with that amount of defective units they would have issued a world wide recall no matter the cost. all the BS they have spewed at us over the past 2 years about how theyre defective rate is within line of there total sales is and has been all BS and for the record i love my 360 elite and is now my 3rd box the first 2 being the premiums which both pooped out on me .

[mushobisho]

How the consoles not reported by those who has not claimed warranty due laziness, expired 90 day warranty, ignorant of their manufacturer warranty (thinking store warranty is all) or just not caring because they bought another?

It could turn the mark into 3 millions.


About ppl ignorant of manufacturer warranty: Believe me. In my country that is very common. :(

[kayjay]

are all xbots silent now??? to the arms, cant you blame it on sony somehow?

[MadonnaProject]

its extremely rate for a company to inject an estimated one BILLION into extending warranties. but you folk are seriously out of your mind if you think microsoft is going to RECALL the 360 worldewide. i know theyre microsoft but no company can pull that off.

[khukon]

im still laughing:D

[Evil-Rebirth]

I'm inclined to believe that this move was made for several reasons.
1. They were pissing off some very loyal customers who dealt with more sh*t than they had to.
2. The truth was getting much more exposure, and this was making MS and the 360 look really bad.
3. Both of these are resulting in choked 360 sales.

Because of this I MIGHT get a 360 now. I know it has some great titles, but the hardware issues were enough to keep me away. However, I won't purchase one until I know I won't have to send in my console after X months of use. I really hate having to waste my time for something I won't be responsible for.

How about all those people that purchased extended warranties because of hardware failures? Or those who took it upon themselves to repair their systems? I'm still shaking my head at how long this has been going on and how reluctant some users have been to agree that this is something that was manifested by MS alone.

[jostboart]

damn...is it so difficult to fix those 3 red lights 360's by yourself?

the xclamp replacement mod isn't that difficult to do by yourself...

[Sinar]

A three year extension won't fix the problem this just means people have to send their unit back more. The elite still gets the rings of death and so do machines with the new heatsink.

[wigsplitta]

Almost everyone I know with a 360 has had the ring of death. None of us have had to pay a red cent to get them fixed. I think it took MS so long to admit the problem because they were collecting data. You can't create an equation without numbers. Posting to forums and complaining about how your 360 died doesn't count . I also think once they had the data they needed they were pretty much forced to extend the warranty. The officials would have stepped in and the consequences for MS would have been much worse. I still think that class action suits are going to start popping up. I for one am relieved that my 360s are under warranty again.

[neurotoxin]

A three year extension won't fix the problem this just means people have to send their unit back more. The elite still gets the rings of death and so do machines with the new heatsink.

I wasn`t aware of the new heatsink equipped 360`s where failing as well? Where did you hear that? I would very much like to read that news.

[Xenogears V]

Microsoft facing a bill of more than $1bn to cover costs of extended Xbox warrnaty:

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=18675

[KainXS]

I am SO happy as they screwed over consumers for so long and now its finally coming back to them

microsoft always has to do thing the hard way

[Vesica]

its extremely rate for a company to inject an estimated one BILLION into extending warranties. but you folk are seriously out of your mind if you think microsoft is going to RECALL the 360 worldewide. i know theyre microsoft but no company can pull that off.

It's also extremly rare for a company to produce a product with such a big failure rate. And you know, if it was someone else than Microsoft that produced the 360 they would be forced to do an recall. But this is Microsoft, they can get away with murder.

oh, and before some xbots start to scream "Sony Sony Sony", Sony where infact forced to do an recall on some million Mac batterys, because some of them overheated.

[grapeape]

It's also extremly rare for a company to produce a product with such a big failure rate. And you know, if it was someone else than Microsoft that produced the 360 they would be forced to do an recall. But this is Microsoft, they can get away with murder.

oh, and before some xbots start to scream "Sony Sony Sony", Sony where infact forced to do an recall on some million Mac batterys, because some of them overheated.

Why recall? There is no danger to the consumer and 75% of them are working fine. I am still on my launch console no problems at all, I do have one friend who has had his replaced but everyone else I know is on their first as well. Recalls are normally done when there is a safety concern or a defect so severe that all of the products are unusable. What they are essentially doing here is a voluntary recall, if you have the problem they fix it no charge.

[sjkhounk]

Faux news said that? Now I don't know what to believe.

[wigsplitta]

It's also extremly rare for a company to produce a product with such a big failure rate. And you know, if it was someone else than Microsoft that produced the 360 they would be forced to do an recall. But this is Microsoft, they can get away with murder.

oh, and before some xbots start to scream "Sony Sony Sony", Sony where infact forced to do an recall on some million Mac batterys, because some of them overheated.
Overheated? They were exploding and catching on fire. That's why there was a recall. You know because people could have died. The 360 isn't putting lives in danger. MS can't get away more than any other company. They are always under the gun and constantly in court.

[jerzmob]

PLZ 360...why can't it just die.:cool:

[Rinny]

You would think with that amount of defective units they would have issued a world wide recall no matter the cost. all the BS they have spewed at us over the past 2 years about how theyre defective rate is within line of there total sales is and has been all BS and for the record i love my 360 elite and is now my 3rd box the first 2 being the premiums which both pooped out on me .
Lets weigh the issues:

1) They do it like they are doing and do a back-door, phased recall
-If they fix the problem in the next 6 months nearly none will die out of warranty from the problem.


or

2) They issue a recall
-Microsoft does not have the stock it would take to get a 360 quickly into everyone's hands. That would mean people would send in a working 360 and wouldn't get another for months.
-pandemonium for the console which at worse could lead to the entire console being wiped from this generation. Millions of dollars wasted by developers, some game companies could go bankrupt. The best that could come out of that would be that the 360 stays off shelves for months.
-Game exclusives that would normally sell consoles, wouldnt. Halo comes out and there arent 360s? That would hurt the hardware AND the software developer. Bioshock, Mass Effect, Blue Dragon?

Essentially Microsoft is issuing a recall, by giving the console a ridiculous warranty while they fix the problem, but since there is ABSOLUTELY no danger to the consumer they are replacing the consoles as they die. Mathematically (statistics) more than 99% of consoles that have the problem WILL die while under warranty. Microsoft recalls that unit and replaces it with a new one. Since its phased, there are still consoles in stores and not mass hysteria.

I'm not such a dumb fanboy that I deny there are problems. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with the original design of the 360, but are actually handling the messup gracefully and with full concern for both the consumers and the software developers. Billion dollar blunder? Ouch, but at least there will be a competitor to Sony this round and Microsoft can try to make some money back if the console stays around.

[sigma8]

Almost everyone I know with a 360 has had the ring of death. None of us have had to pay a red cent to get them fixed. I think it took MS so long to admit the problem because they were collecting data. You can't create an equation without numbers. Posting to forums and complaining about how your 360 died doesn't count .
Yeah ok. Well, remember it wasn't just people posting in forums. People were SENDING XBOX360's TO MICROSOFT FOR REPAIR/REPLACEMENT.

I'm sorry, if MS needed 2.5 million broken Xbox360's in their repair shops to figure this out, then they are pretty dense.

[Rinny]

Yeah ok. Well, remember it wasn't just people posting in forums. People were SENDING XBOX360's TO MICROSOFT FOR REPAIR/REPLACEMENT.

I'm sorry, if MS needed 2.5 million broken Xbox360's in their repair shops to figure this out, then they are pretty dense.

BTW M$ is refunding all money that people paid for actual repairs, so no one will have paid a dime for those repairs while Microsoft was first figuring out what the problem was, and second (which took a while) figuring out there strategy for dealing with it.

[sigma8]

BTW M$ is refunding all money that people paid for actual repairs, so no one will have paid a dime for those repairs while Microsoft was first figuring out what the problem was, and second (which took a while) figuring out there strategy for dealing with it.
Um, ok? How does this change the fact that it took them 2.5 million Xbox360's to determine "yes, we have a problem". I guess even if the PS3 had a fatal problem, we won't know for a while, because it's only sold about 3.6 million of them, and based on MS's example, it should take Sony several million units sitting on their engineers' desks--not working--for them to actually say "Wait a tick! These are all not working! By golly, 80% of them mention the same symptom in the customer ticket! I think there may be a connection here!"

[OblivionX]

Um, ok? How does this change the fact that it took them 2.5 million Xbox360's to determine "yes, we have a problem". I guess even if the PS3 had a fatal problem, we won't know for a while, because it's only sold about 3.6 million of them, and based on MS's example, it should take Sony several million units sitting on their engineers' desks--not working--for them to actually say "Wait a tick! These are all not working! By golly, 80% of them mention the same symptom in the customer ticket! I think there may be a connection here!"

they dont fail striaght away though do they. I do admit that its a major problem, but im not complaining. They fixed mine for free and now they are fixing everyones for 3 years for free. Either way your only paying once for your console. So im not bothered.

[Scorpion3]

are all xbots silent now??? to the arms, cant you blame it on sony somehow?

Of course they are, but obviously the Sony fanboys aren't. :)

PLZ 360...why can't it just die.:cool:

Case and point. I love people like that, they don't post at all until something is posted that is either positive or negative for the 360 so that they can come and fanboy the thread up.

But really, no news here, if anything it's just proving the 33% was pretty shy of the actual numbers.

[msanchez]

Not that I'm defending MS, but in all honesty these failure news bits are getting almost as redundant as the wii vs ps3 sales comparison.... almost not quite there yet. We all know, ok so not all of us as some are in an unwavering state of denial, that the 360 isn't exactly the best designed piece of hardware ever, so what's the point of telling us over and over and over again? not that I mind that much since I'm not planing on buying a 360; then again, I'm sure some get a kick out of negative press.

Anywho until something new gets reported I'll simply skip over these kinds of articles for now, enjoy guys.

*edit* That said, I still don't get why some of you feel so happy that they fix your consoles for free or whatever, that doesn't make things right. Would you consider it a good deed for a father to provide food for his children? probably not. Maybe that wasn't the best example, but what I'm trying to say is they're supposed to fix your console when it's such a widespread problem. I guess that's the problem though, people (or companies) rarely do what they're supposed to. Anyways knowing MS in 3 years there will already be a new xbox out LOL *edit*

[LeGioN1202]

its extremely rate for a company to inject an estimated one BILLION into extending warranties. but you folk are seriously out of your mind if you think microsoft is going to RECALL the 360 worldewide. i know theyre microsoft but no company can pull that off.

Yes, but any product with that kind of faulty rate shouldn't even be on store shelves.

Why do people keep defending this company? They keep dicking you and you keep running back with open arms... what a bunch of morons.

[OblivionX]

Yes, but any product with that kind of faulty rate shouldn't even be on store shelves.

Why do people keep defending this company? They keep dicking you and you keep running back with open arms... what a bunch of morons.

im sorry but no1 has "dicked" anyone. They released a console with a high fault ratio, they reconized this, they gave a year free warrenty, they then reconized that the figure is extremely high, so refunded everyone who paid for a repair and then extended it to 3 years. Thats 3 years warrenty, bearing in mind that lots of electric devices last about 3-5 years before developing a fault. So if yours breaks after 3 whole years you get a brand new one free. Who is being "dicked" exactly?

[romek]

I figure Microsoft is just buying time... time for the re-design Xbox360 to come out. You know, the one with the quieter DVD Drive, and the smaller CPU (65nm I think). In theory this should make a cooler, quieter Xbox360. I'm very surprised they did not wait for this BEFORE releasing the Elite (a big mistake I think).
The biggest issue with the Xbox360 design is the heat that the CPU gives off, and that's because it was the only tri-core CPU on the market. So I don't think it was tested right, I also don't think IBM is good at making cool (temp I mean) chips. That's why Apple switched to Intel. I think the new Xbox360 (due out in Sept 07) should make all the difference.

[KainXS]

actually a worldwide recall sounds better than all the units or even half breaking and recieving massive lawsuits

[Scorpion3]

Yes, but any product with that kind of faulty rate shouldn't even be on store shelves.

Why do people keep defending this company? They keep dicking you and you keep running back with open arms... what a bunch of morons.

Ever think you're just being a cockbite and not accepting the fact that it wasn't their faults and they're doing everything they can to help the consumer? No, that would be too good of Microsoft, huh? Pathetic that people blindly BASH a company, worse than blindly following a company if you ask me.

I figure Microsoft is just buying time... time for the re-design Xbox360 to come out. You know, the one with the quieter DVD Drive, and the smaller CPU (65nm I think). In theory this should make a cooler, quieter Xbox360. I'm very surprised they did not wait for this BEFORE releasing the Elite (a big mistake I think).
The biggest issue with the Xbox360 design is the heat that the CPU gives off, and that's because it was the only tri-core CPU on the market. So I don't think it was tested right, I also don't think IBM is good at making cool (temp I mean) chips. That's why Apple switched to Intel. I think the new Xbox360 (due out in Sept 07) should make all the difference.

Smartest thing I've heard all day, at least someone is thinking logically. I believe that when they redesign and add the 64nm processors to the 360, they'll also add the new cooling system they're putting in refurbished consoles. And thus making it TROD free and faster at a cheaper cost, so not only could we see a newer model but with a nice price cut. :D

[Sinar]

I wasn`t aware of the new heatsink equipped 360`s where failing as well? Where did you hear that? I would very much like to read that news.
Check back a bit for the elite rrod reports you will find images of dead 360 complete with the new heatsink.. sad but true. All it takes is more time for heat to build up.

[stop_loading]

But really, no news here, if anything it's just proving the 33% was pretty shy of the actual numbers.

fanboyism at its best!, so 25% is okay because it's less right? lol

xbots are pathetic, they shaft you with a horrible unreliable hardware and yet you're defending them

in fact they're supposed to have a recall since they're been selling defective product with "25%" failure rate

here's a better news for you, the actual failure rate is neither 25 or 33, it's 100%, until they removed the xclamp that is

[des]

Ever think you're just being a cockbite and not accepting the fact that it wasn't their faults and they're doing everything they can to help the consumer? No, that would be too good of Microsoft, huh? Pathetic that people blindly BASH a company, worse than blindly following a company if you ask me.


LOL! Yeah as a company you don't have to test the console if it has any flaws. Seriously how could it be not their fault? They just wanted to be first on the market and they could easily have invest like 6 more months into the development but no they needed to be first and just rush things, and 33% failure rate for gaming console is one of the worst things that can ever happen. Also most people got a reason to bash MS simply because they were denying this problem all the time and they just threw everything back at the consumer and said its the users fault because of wrong handling and whatever...( which wasn't true). But yeah MS is a company who only wants the best for you ... thats really pathetic!

[Scorpion3]

LOL! Yeah as a company you don't have to test the console if it has any flaws. Seriously how could it be not their fault? They just wanted to be first on the market and they could easily have invest like 6 more months into the development but no they needed to be first and just rush things, and 33% failure rate for gaming console is one of the worst things that can ever happen. Also most people got a reason to bash MS simply because they were denying this problem all the time and they just threw everything back at the consumer and said its the users fault because of wrong handling and whatever...( which wasn't true). But yeah MS is a company who only wants the best for you ... thats really pathetic!

Agreed, the fact that they didn't test it to the fullest is complete and utter BS. But they thought it was needed to get out before the PS3 so they needed to release it early. :rolleyes: If they would have known Sony would delay it by a year, they could have released it a little later without defects.

fanboyism at its best!, so 25% is okay because it's less right? lol

xbots are pathetic, they shaft you with a horrible unreliable hardware and yet you're defending them

in fact they're supposed to have a recall since they're been selling defective product with "25%" failure rate

here's a better news for you, the actual failure rate is neither 25 or 33, it's 100%, until they removed the xclamp that is

Assumptions at it's best, and by that I mean you making an ass out of you and me of course. Did I say it was alright that the 360 has a 25% failure rate? Assumption. Did I say that I was happy with my 360? Assumption. Did I say that the 360 is way better than the PS3 and Wii and the PS3 is going to DIE!!!!!!? Assumption. I do find it comical that you play the part of the Pot in calling me black with your incredibly biased "100% of 360's fail". lol

[romek]

You have to also think about why did Microsoft FINALLY admitted there was an issue. I mean it wasn't because they are nice people who want to keep everyone happy. This is a massive company trying to make AS MUCH money as possible (hence the ridiculous MS Points model that sees you buying ad-ons for games that should be free -well since the games cost $50-$60 that is).
I think MS is VERY worried about law suits, but not from users (those they can deal with) but from places like the European Union. You see, one of the few things the EU does well (did I mention VERY few?) is it stands up for customers. Just look at the MS anti-trust case as a good example of how the US rolled over and took it the a**e (english spelling), while the EU actually stood up to MS and is still fighting them. Now the EU is taking the Hollywood studios to court over HD-DVD and Blue Ray exclusivity contracts for movies which the EU says is NOT legal.
If the EU took MS to court over this, there is the potential they would be forced to do an official recall, something MS is obviously willing to pay over $1b to avoid.

[Scorpion3]

You have to also think about why did Microsoft FINALLY admitted there was an issue. I mean it wasn't because they are nice people who want to keep everyone happy. This is a massive company trying to make AS MUCH money as possible (hence the ridiculous MS Points model that sees you buying ad-ons for games that should be free -well since the games cost $50-$60 that is).
I think MS is VERY worried about law suits, but not from users (those they can deal with) but from places like the European Union. You see, one of the few things the EU does well (did I mention VERY few?) is it stands up for customers. Just look at the MS anti-trust case as a good example of how the US rolled over and took it the a**e (english spelling), while the EU actually stood up to MS and is still fighting them. Now the EU is taking the Hollywood studios to court over HD-DVD and Blue Ray exclusivity contracts for movies which the EU says is NOT legal.
If the EU took MS to court over this, there is the potential they would be forced to do an official recall, something MS is obviously willing to pay over $1b to avoid.

Apparently you don't know that it's the game devs that set the downloadable content pricing. Despite that wrong-ness, you're write about Microsoft trying to make as much money as possible, but any good consumer can tell you the way to do that is to keep the consumer happy, which is what this is all about; A means to an end. So the idea that they want to make everyone happy is valid, but the idea that they don't try and keep everyone happy is ignorant. And the reason they're willing to pay that much is because it would cost more for them to do a recall rather than just fix the consoles that DO break for free.

[Vesica]

After reading through this whole thread it made want to post this.



http://photos.commongate.com/11/38441_7dtr2scy8f_l.jpg

[romek]

well I currently have two major issues with Next Gen games (specifically MS but the others are headed in the same direction).

1. The games (costing on the average $60 each when they come out) are too expensive. I do not care to hear the high cost of development behind this because I have been a long believer (having a major in Marketing and Economics) that you can in fact sell so many more copies of software if the price was realistic for most people (the high price also fuels piracy as someone can easily do the math that even if they brick their system, it's only a couple of games worth). This leads me to the idea of paying for new content. WHY? Why would people allow these companies to not only set a very high price initially but to then pay additional money for content which should be made available for free. Nintendo really pisses me off with their Virtual Console making you buy each game separately (and really focusing on the VC instead of releasing more software for the Wii). Here is my solution... if you have old games that you want to sell, make it a subscription model. I'd be willing to pay... $10 a month to download as much as I want. The truth is you usually play these older titles for a bit and then put them down (this is what I've noticed playing old ROMs using PC Emulators). So I'd LOVE to play Zelda on the Wii, but I'm probably NOT going to play the whole game through again so... it is a waist to buy it separately.

2. Games are starting to get more and more advertising meaning the developers SHOULD be getting money from these companies. In fact they can introduce a new model... make the games MUCH cheaper ($10 each), this way you sell MANY MANY more games (people would get games just because the price is low even if its not a grade A title) as you sell them charge the company advertising inside the game based on the number sold. So initially you'd charge a "startup fee" then that fee would change based on the number of games sold. Having new games priced so low allows for greater numbers and therefore more money to the developers. You sell more consoles and more a huge amount of software per user. This makes life better for the average consumer (especially the parents who buy games for kids) the typical gamer (who can now experiment more and get games they usually would not) and piracy would go away (for the most part) as it would NOT make sense to buy pirated games as the price would be so low (which should save huge amounts of money with the different anti-piracy systems companies think they need to employ on their systems).
That's what I think... Someone will try this model someday and when it works everyone will jump on it. Mark my words! :D

[Scorpion3]

well I currently have two major issues with Next Gen games (specifically MS but the others are headed in the same direction).

1. The games (costing on the average $60 each when they come out) are too expensive. I do not care to hear the high cost of development behind this because I have been a long believer (having a major in Marketing and Economics) that you can in fact sell so many more copies of software if the price was realistic for most people (the high price also fuels piracy as someone can easily do the math that even if they brick their system, it's only a couple of games worth). This leads me to the idea of paying for new content. WHY? Why would people allow these companies to not only set a very high price initially but to then pay additional money for content which should be made available for free. Nintendo really pisses me off with their Virtual Console making you buy each game separately (and really focusing on the VC instead of releasing more software for the Wii). Here is my solution... if you have old games that you want to sell, make it a subscription model. I'd be willing to pay... $10 a month to download as much as I want. The truth is you usually play these older titles for a bit and then put them down (this is what I've noticed playing old ROMs using PC Emulators). So I'd LOVE to play Zelda on the Wii, but I'm probably NOT going to play the whole game through again so... it is a waist to buy it separately.

2. Games are starting to get more and more advertising meaning the developers SHOULD be getting money from these companies. In fact they can introduce a new model... make the games MUCH cheaper ($10 each), this way you sell MANY MANY more games (people would get games just because the price is low even if its not a grade A title) as you sell them charge the company advertising inside the game based on the number sold. So initially you'd charge a "startup fee" then that fee would change based on the number of games sold. Having new games priced so low allows for greater numbers and therefore more money to the developers. You sell more consoles and more a huge amount of software per user. This makes life better for the average consumer (especially the parents who buy games for kids) the typical gamer (who can now experiment more and get games they usually would not) and piracy would go away (for the most part) as it would NOT make sense to buy pirated games as the price would be so low (which should save huge amounts of money with the different anti-piracy systems companies think they need to employ on their systems).
That's what I think... Someone will try this model someday and when it works everyone will jump on it. Mark my words! :D

Just want to remark on one thing you said, the bolded area...Not only are there millions put into making the game, like you mentioned, but the media is getting more expensive. Despite all that, if you were around in the generations before Playstation and N64, you remember that cartridges would at times cost even more than some games today. I remember spending my birthday money on Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 for the Genesis and it costed 70 bucks for the cartidge alone.

[romek]

Just want to remark on one thing you said, the bolded area...Not only are there millions put into making the game, like you mentioned, but the media is getting more expensive. Despite all that, if you were around in the generations before Playstation and N64, you remember that cartridges would at times cost even more than some games today. I remember spending my birthday money on Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 for the Genesis and it costed 70 bucks for the cartidge alone.

I have been around since the old NES days, so yes... I do remember. Having said that... media is getting more expensive???? No I don't agree. A DVD (or even blue-ray disc) is MUCH cheaper to make than the old style cartridges. Plus the downloadable games (such as the VC on Wii) is just that downloadable.

You might have missed my point. You see companies like MS and everyone else for that matter, have gone on the campaign to "brainwash" the public into being able to charge more for software. This is the case with other software too (Windows, MS Office, etc). Part of the reason is that they don't want things to change (since it's not broke, don't fix it) part of the reason is that they are run by a bunch of old suits who really just "don't get it". It's the quick fix... instead of making software that will sell 5-6m copies at a smaller price.. they'd rather sell 300-500K copies at a higher price. They "think" it's less risk. Now they are also pulling a fast one on people charging them these ridiculous amounts for downloadable content (hiding it behind the "points" system so it's not so obvious how much you are spending).

Let's do some math:

at $60 per game IF a company sells 500K copies (which is a GREAT seller) they get about $30m

at $10 per game IF a company sells 5m copies they get about $50m

Now you might ask if that's even possible? If there are 10m consoles out right now can half of the user base get a game? Actually the short answer is yes, but not because it's half the user base but because a couple other factors come to mind:

- Since the game is so cheap piracy goes away, now everyone else who would pirate the game buys it (no advantage of buying off some guy on the street, even in China) = sell more copies

- More people buy the console, now that they can afford more games they are inclined to get the console in the first place, so your user base grows, and grows (not sure how big it could get? Check out how many PS2s have been sold) = sell more copies

- As you mass produce greater numbers (and I do mean greater) your manufacturing costs (among others) falls. So now you make more money on each game = making more $$$

- Introducing the model of getting money from advertisers (just look at how much advertising is in the sports and racing games) the company can make a continued stream of money from the advertisers who see their products in front of more people (and we all know that having products in video games is far better than a 30 second commercial on TV, your product stays in the game forever). = make more $$$

I know I've oversimplified the matter a bit, but this is what I think and it can be done. And the downloadable stuff (especially the old games) should be subscription based ($50 a year, download all that you want--- maybe have a 5-10 game at one time limit, kind of like NetFlix).

[grapeape]

Let's do some math:

at $60 per game IF a company sells 500K copies (which is a GREAT seller) they get about $30m

at $10 per game IF a company sells 5m copies they get about $50m

Now you might ask if that's even possible? If there are 10m consoles out right now can half of the user base get a game? Actually the short answer is yes, but not because it's half the user base but because a couple other factors come to mind:

- Since the game is so cheap piracy goes away, now everyone else who would pirate the game buys it (no advantage of buying off some guy on the street, even in China) = sell more copies

- More people buy the console, now that they can afford more games they are inclined to get the console in the first place, so your user base grows, and grows (not sure how big it could get? Check out how many PS2s have been sold) = sell more copies

- As you mass produce greater numbers (and I do mean greater) your manufacturing costs (among others) falls. So now you make more money on each game = making more $$$

- Introducing the model of getting money from advertisers (just look at how much advertising is in the sports and racing games) the company can make a continued stream of money from the advertisers who see their products in front of more people (and we all know that having products in video games is far better than a 30 second commercial on TV, your product stays in the game forever). = make more $$$

I know I've oversimplified the matter a bit, but this is what I think and it can be done. And the downloadable stuff (especially the old games) should be subscription based ($50 a year, download all that you want--- maybe have a 5-10 game at one time limit, kind of like NetFlix).

There are a few flaws in that logic. As an example we can use Halo2, it took over 190 people and $40 million dollars to develop. Minus the advertising, packaging and media costs (lets be cheap and say its $3 though in reality its closer to $5), at $10, 5 million sales would leave them not only unprofitable but deeply in debt.

The all you can eat gaming plan is being tried with gametap, at $10 a month (more than twice your suggested price) it could not turn a profit, they have added tiered gaming including a free advertising based portal to try and offset that but they are still having problems actually making money.

[the_blackadder1]

what, i agree games could e slightly cheaper, like when you get the same game such as p2s few months down the line- a platinum edition half the price


if you think it would stop piracy because its so cheap then you are deffinatly wrong, just remind me how much dvd's are these days and how many off them are pirated just the same as music cd's. to be honest it could make it worse. just remember there only has to be one copy of the game on the net and thats it its everywhere.

but yes i agree they should be around £25 > $50

anyway going off topic, ive always been a playstation/sega/n64 cube gamer never touched the xbox 1 or pc games. now i bought xbox360, what a great console it is, i was so happy until i had months off unrecognised disc errors and lock ups sent back to store happened again sent back to store all ok now but does make a few scary noises lol my 2nd xbox360 was even scratching my discs while lying horizonal, microsoft was adament that it dont do this which peed me off.

now though im very happy i got rainbow six vegas and for myself its the best game i have ever played and for $60 for playing a game for a full year then i am really happy, i dont mind paying if it has playability and lastability.

its just a shame msft could have announced problems earlier and aknowledged there customers. they still need to address a few things now