What are the consequences of Microsoft's crackdown?

[Timboo]

With Microsoft using the latest Xbox Live service update to detect kernel mods and unauthorized hard disk upgrades and in turn to ban the player's Xbox 360s based on its console ID, rather than the player's Xbox Live account. With the possibility of players selling their banned 360's on ebay, this presents a big customer relation problem for Microsoft when the new owner can't get on live. Is banning an expensive way to go?

Steve's Ban Circumvention strategy? (PlayNoEvil would, obviously not do anything so... evil)

So, what is going to happen:

1. Banned player sells banned Xbox 360 on Ebay.

2. New player signs up for the totally cool Xbox Live service that he heard so much about.

3. Gets bounced.

4. Calls Xbox Live Customer Service.

5. What will Microsoft do?

A. Reinstate the machine?
B. Tell the person "tough luck"?
C. Both, at random.

If they reinstate the box, this opens up the lazy circumvention strategy of skipping that whole "sell on eBay" thing and just try to get reinstated.

If they tell the person "tough luck"... Microsoft is going to have an UGLY CUSTOMER RELATIONS PROBLEM (followed by some nasty stories in the news) which should lead back to Answer A.

Even stupider option for Xbox Customer service - tell the naive purchasing person to "fix" their Xbox so that it isnt' hacked anymore.

I tend to argue strongly against banning. It is directly expensive and can have "highly entertaining" unforeseen consequences.

Also, if Microsoft hits "critical mass" with its banning activities, it may encourage the creation of a "guerrilla Xbox Live" that could spur further piracy.

What should Microsoft do?

News Source:http://playnoevil.com/serendipity/index.php?/archives/1269-Xbox-360-Exploit-Crackdown-via-Xbox-Live-Good-Idea-or-Not.html

[Scorpion3]

Sorry Timboo, you're a little late. According to G4's The Feed, they already lifted the fix for the wrongfully banned 360s. It was just a problem in the way it banned apparently, and they got it fixed. Anyone who sold their 360's because of this are morons, like they actually expected MS not to release a fix to it? Every update that has created problems has gotten a fix update shortly after.

[XxBigP123xX]

and im still not banned! im amazing

[LordX]

M$ are so stuped , Live Cost $$$ so why to ban paying customers :confused: :eek:

[tomgreen99200]

i was on the same train as you, enjoying xbox live with my hitachi 78 but i turned it on today and i got banned... be aware

[So-Unreal]

They are its good that MS banned burned games from LIVE. The only stupid thing they did was not stop the burned game from playing at all. Be happy you can still play the games..........

[legendofphil]

If I were MS, I would send out a message on Live saying "You have been detected using a mod and have 10 days (or whatever) to restore your Xbox to the factory settings (reflash the original firmware or take out the mod chip) before the console is banned from the network".
After this point I would charge a modest amount to restore any system that has banned, if it were found that the console was wrongly banned then it would be repaired for free/a refund.

[nwo504]

I think its tough for MS because when someones banned from live they are losing out. One less person to pay for live content like arcade games. Alot of people wont renew live if its exprinig. I saw alot less people on smackdown when I played at a friends house. Alot of people missed out on the original xbox live because they would rather play backups than get on live.

With the ps2 you atleast could play online games as long as you owned the original.

[XxBigP123xX]

If I were MS, I would send out a message on Live saying "You have been detected using a mod and have 10 days (or whatever) to restore your Xbox to the factory settings (reflash the original firmware or take out the mod chip) before the console is banned from the network".
After this point I would charge a modest amount to restore any system that has banned, if it were found that the console was wrongly banned then it would be repaired for free/a refund.
MS is a person?

[dutchmaster]

lol yes, give m$ a reason to un-ban me

[sexycommando]

If I were MS, I would send out a message on Live saying "You have been detected using a mod and have 10 days (or whatever) to restore your Xbox to the factory settings (reflash the original firmware or take out the mod chip) before the console is banned from the network".
After this point I would charge a modest amount to restore any system that has banned, if it were found that the console was wrongly banned then it would be repaired for free/a refund.

I was about to say the same thing. MS can offer to "repair" the banned console for a fee. That is the simplest solution to this problem.

Buying a modded and banned 360 on eBay is the same as buying a broken 360. Microsoft does not have to fix any 360 that is out of warranty, and the buyer should file a complaint with eBay about the seller and get a refund.

[Scorpion3]

i was on the same train as you, enjoying xbox live with my hitachi 78 but i turned it on today and i got banned... be aware

Be aware everyone, you may be banned if you're doing something illegal! BE AWARE!!!!! :rolleyes:

M$ are so stuped , Live Cost $$$ so why to ban paying customers :confused: :eek:

'Cause despite of what some may say, MS DOES want the gamer who have the best experiences online, when you have people who are playing modded games, not just burnt games, it ruins the game. How would you like it if you were playing online on CS and some guy comes in and hacks the game to death so you go flying into the sky and smashing into the ground? As much as I love that hack, I'd hate it. lol. As for the people just playing burnt games, it's been MS' policy since the first Xbox that if your console has voided your warranty (Opened) and has been modded in any way (Console Wise) you are automatically banned from Live. Sony did the same thing with the PS2 and they'll do it when the PS3 is hacked, probably a lot faster than Xbox Live since it's free.

[joe90]

I was about to say the same thing. MS can offer to "repair" the banned console for a fee. That is the simplest solution to this problem.

Buying a modded and banned 360 on eBay is the same as buying a broken 360. Microsoft does not have to fix any 360 that is out of warranty, and the buyer should file a complaint with eBay about the seller and get a refund.

yep.. you are 100% correct..
image buying a car from ebay, and the power steering doesn't work.. you don't moan to honda about it do you..

[cammy1011]

They should of just banned ya from gold let ya still have silver so at least you could still get money from all the movie content themes all that other stuff they charged for.My friend has a modded box and he was always buying points for movies and stuff.No more money from him.

[n0rthstar]

The ONLY thing M$ should be doing is making it so burned games cannot be played on Live. That way it forces the people wishing to play multiplayer game on Live buy the damn thing... also forces the developer to make the game worth playing with other people.

The wrong thing to do would be to ban any modded console at this point. Its gone on far too long to start banning people who 'may' have bought their console secondhand... M$ has made its bed and has to lie in it. I know I would certainly be pissed to buy a console only to find i cant play on live.

BTW... Im not on Live, i tried the free trial for a while and got bored, i dont even play on my xbox single player much at all (and yes its modded).

[nwo504]

imagine banning 10,000 people from your store

[mmicrosysm]

yep.. you are 100% correct..
image buying a car from ebay, and the power steering doesn't work.. you don't moan to honda about it do you..MS blantently caused this problem so it is not the same as in your Honda power steering reference.

Also MS has killed EBGames, Gamestop and so on 360 resell program with one single blow I'm sure they are impressed.

[rbranma]

this is really bad case, a really expesive shiit, if you got banned.
No go MS! This is NO go that way with consumers!

[dannybII]

Thats complete bullsh!t bout MS wanting people to have the best experience playing live. This means banning a flashed console.

What they should be doing to improve the "playing experience" is banning team killers and tw@s that hide in glitches. They should put pressure on the likes of Activision to plug their buggy games. Initially live was fun, COD3 was like heroin, then all the idiot boy team killers and glitch snipers ruined it. Enjoyable experience my ar$e. I ended up hating online play with a passion. I would have gladly threw my 360 out the window it got so bad.


Clamp down on that sh!t microsoft then come talk to me about an enjoyable cheat free experince.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Deap]

Ok maybe im the retadred one here but how is this news, MS have a zero tolerence policy regarding console mods, if they find a box has been modded then they are well within their right to police this and ban these boxes from live. hell your lucky they dont brick them. the only reason anyone puts a firmware mod on a console is to play copied games, before you give me any of this backup games bull. shove it, take care of your damn discs you tramp its not hard. take out of case put in console. done leave them on the side or touch the surface with your fingers.

and how is it MS's problem with people buying and selling on ebay. if the seller sells a modded console on ebay then they should disclose that it is modded, if the buyer gets a modded console then he maybe shoudl have just double checked or ask the seller to refund him, ebay has policies in place to protect both buyer and seller in these cases. there is no need for MS to get involved. if i bought a car from ebay that was still under manufacturer gaurentee and it had had the engine chipped. the manufacturer will imediately end my warranty for modifying the vehicle i didnt do it but it isnt their problem to police the sale of second hand versions of their product.

micrsoft should stick by their guns and tell people that they are sorry they cannot get on live but it is because they have bought a modified console, they need to take this up with the seller or buy a new console. its not exactly "tough luck" like you said but it is one of their policies set up to protect themselves.

Please go back to putting news on this site instead of just ranting about how MS wont let you play your free copied games onlne anymore. boohoo stop being such a cheap TW*T! and pay if you want the content it clearly bothers you that you have lost access to it dont you think in that case its content worth paying for

[mmicrosysm]

Ok maybe im the retadred one here but how is this news, MS have a zero tolerence policy regarding console mods, if they find a box has been modded then they are well within their right to police this and ban these boxes from live. hell your lucky they dont brick them. the only reason anyone puts a firmware mod on a console is to play copied games, before you give me any of this backup games bull. shove it, take care of your damn discs you tramp its not hard. take out of case put in console. done leave them on the side or touch the surface with your fingers.

and how is it MS's problem with people buying and selling on ebay. if the seller sells a modded console on ebay then they should disclose that it is modded, if the buyer gets a modded console then he maybe shoudl have just double checked or ask the seller to refund him, ebay has policies in place to protect both buyer and seller in these cases. there is no need for MS to get involved. if i bought a car from ebay that was still under manufacturer gaurentee and it had had the engine chipped. the manufacturer will imediately end my warranty for modifying the vehicle i didnt do it but it isnt their problem to police the sale of second hand versions of their product.

micrsoft should stick by their guns and tell people that they are sorry they cannot get on live but it is because they have bought a modified console, they need to take this up with the seller or buy a new console. its not exactly "tough luck" like you said but it is one of their policies set up to protect themselves.

Please go back to putting news on this site instead of just ranting about how MS wont let you play your free copied games onlne anymore. boohoo stop being such a cheap TW*T! and pay if you want the content it clearly bothers you that you have lost access to it dont you think in that case its content worth paying for:mad:

I have kids and sick of either having get the disk resurfaced or replaced at my expense. So FU

[mcmanic]

i'd take single player backups rather than LIVE anyday. Live has become so frustrating, all it seems these days is who can be the 1st to get that elusive online achievement point at any means possible and people that use exploits in games making it no fun for anybody else. I have a PS3 also and because its free and has dedictated servers i'm actually enjoying that more knowing that if i do expericence the above at least i'm not paying a subscription for it and wasting my money.

[Deap]

:mad:

I have kids and sick of either having get the disk resurfaced or replaced at my expense. So FU

ok so because you have kids you think its ok to mod a console and backup games, perhaps a better idea would be to keep prised posesssions out of reach of your kids?

And whats with the FU! this is a discussion forum and yoyr swearing at me for having an apposed opinion.

perhaps then if you have time when your not slobbing on the couch or drinking yourself to sleep. spend some time with your kids explaining to them wright and wrong and what things they are allowed to touch ect. its not that difficult to be a parent. you just need to actually put some effort in

my parents managed to raise me not to keep breaking CD's or other objects belonging to them i probably broke 1 VHS tape ever. they then taught me a lesson i never did it again.

dont tell me FU you F*cking YOB!

[loliix]

Once again, a ban on backups is a smart move towards earning publishers rep and appease the broad masses that actually (like some of us) buy games.
I have nothing against banning backups on Live! since that may actually be very healthy to the platform.

So what's bad in this picture? Well, Microsoft didn't just ban backups online.. Unlike what common sense would advise against, they didn't only root out an evil but introduced a new one, shutting down their online store to a portion of their costumers.
This was unnecessary and damaging.

In short, ban "backups" (aka piracy) is great to a long living platform.. Bundling a ban to your online store and services that pirates couldn't access other than paying the price in full is.. well.. dumb.
Don't think this is a whole new idea, Sony already did the same thing with PS2 online service. Instead of banning their consoles from being able to generate revenue from purchased games, they only banned the "backups", leaving you with the only option of buying the games.

Iron out piracy but keep milking money out of pirates when they are unaware.

[mmicrosysm]

ok so because you have kids you think its ok to mod a console and backup games, perhaps a better idea would be to keep prised posesssions out of reach of your kids?

And whats with the FU! this is a discussion forum and yoyr swearing at me for having an apposed opinion.

perhaps then if you have time when your not slobbing on the couch or drinking yourself to sleep. spend some time with your kids explaining to them wright and wrong and what things they are allowed to touch ect. its not that difficult to be a parent. you just need to actually put some effort in

my parents managed to raise me not to keep breaking CD's or other objects belonging to them i probably broke 1 VHS tape ever. they then taught me a lesson i never did it again.

dont tell me FU you F*cking YOB!Again FU douche bag

[Deap]

i'd take single player backups rather than LIVE anyday. Live has become so frustrating, all it seems these days is who can be the 1st to get that elusive online achievement point at any means possible and people that use exploits in games making it no fun for anybody else. I have a PS3 also and because its free and has dedictated servers i'm actually enjoying that more knowing that if i do expericence the above at least i'm not paying a subscription for it and wasting my money.

finally! a response worth of respect. someone not against MS for doing what they have done and proibaly see's why they have done it. but theyve weight up what means more to them and as they dont like live anyway decided to forgo the service in favor of playng the single player games only. your choice mate, i like the live service and think its worth the money, im not calling you names however just for having a different opinion to mine.

[Deap]

Again FU douce bag

does that mean im some kind of wet bag? how can you have kids, you obviously have a mental age of a child yourself. grow up and actually make an arguement. stop wasting everyones time in this forum just having a go at me.

[mmicrosysm]

finally! a response worth of respect. someone not against MS for doing what they have done and proibaly see's why they have done it. but theyve weight up what means more to them and as they dont like live anyway decided to forgo the service in favor of playng the single player games only. your choice mate, i like the live service and think its worth the money, im not calling you names however just for having a different opinion to mine.Oh let me guess you are also happy with their 3 Red Light Syndrome as well. I bet you think it is ok for them to say buy another one sorry about your luck. Why don't read a little about Microsoft and find how they became what they are now by STEALING from others.

[ando2k5]

Oh let me guess you are also happy with their 3 Red Light Syndrome as well. I bet you think it is ok for them to say buy another one sorry about your luck. Why don't read a little about Microsoft and find how they became what they are now by STEALING from others.

such bullshit

[n0rthstar]

and how is it MS's problem with people buying and selling on ebay. if the seller sells a modded console on ebay then they should disclose that it is modded, if the buyer gets a modded console then he maybe shoudl have just double checked or ask the seller to refund him, ebay has policies in place to protect both buyer and seller in these cases. there is no need for MS to get involved. if i bought a car from ebay that was still under manufacturer gaurentee and it had had the engine chipped. the manufacturer will imediately end my warranty for modifying the vehicle i didnt do it but it isnt their problem to police the sale of second hand versions of their product.

Do you live in the real world at all? You make it sound so simple, but its not THAT simple, not even in your little bubble world.

You cannot sell any modded console on ebay, its in the T&C and ebay remove any listing that says a console has been modded... if they catch you that is. I would also like to see you try getting a refund from someone who sold their banned console on ebay and used the money to buy a new one... i really would.

It IS Microsofts responsibility to a point. They have allowed people to play backup games for far too long with the ability to stop it for a long time 'probably'.

Stop being so naive and step into the real world, take a look around you and smell the cold hard reality.

[mmicrosysm]

such bullshitSteve Jobs does not think so!

[Deap]

im not familiar with he 3 light syndrome fully, is it not just a HDD failure. HDD's fail. its crap but they do if i have something with a 1 year warranty however that i have read on the forums is fprone to failure il buy it from currys and get cover on it, alternately il buy a new one when it fails outside of warranty. its crap that MS are using Cheap hdd;s that are prone to failure but so do HP/Copmaq in their laptops i dont see people raging that this is a major conspiracey.

im fully aware of MS's reputation of stealing from others but i think that point and bear in mind that its not fact its speculation that they got where they were from stealing is kind of shot down as its not really for or against the arguement as to weather banning consoles for being modded is a good or bad idea. im pretty sure they got where they are from more than just stealing. they must be offering some good stuff if they are the richest company in the world

[Deap]

Do you live in the real world at all? You make it sound so simple, but its not THAT simple, not even in your little bubble world.

You cannot sell any modded console on ebay, its in the T&C and ebay remove

It IS Microsofts responsibility to a point. They have allowed people to play backup games for far too long with the ability to stop it for a long time 'probably'.


ok i was not aware of Those T&C but the point owas that its not MS problem if someone sells a modded console, or if someone buys one. if it is agains the T&C to sell one and the buyer finds out he has recieved a modded box, they can inform ebay that the seller sold this under false pretences and if they paid by paypal can escilate the claim and forcefully recieve their money back.

thanks for pointing out the flaw in my post but the point is the buyer is protected if they follow the right chanels.

regarding MS allowing this for so long? when has MS ALLOWED? this, they put security on their product and hackers have found a way to circumvent this. they have never allowed it bu it takes time to get the legal precidence to crackdown on things like this and i think they are being fair by just booting you off live. they arent stopping modded consoles from playing backups. you can stoll play all the free games you want, you jsut aent allowed access to the premium service.they created the service they can say who does and doesn't have access.

I dont live in a bubble world i live in the real world, i can tell because all the things i stand for like banning cheaters and modders is happening in my world and i fully support this. you seem to believe that you and i are in different worlds but let me just ask in the world you are in are MS banning modders from live or is it a different world where MS should be bending over to everyone who wants to continue software piracy.

i must have some allies in here, back me up please!

[mmicrosysm]

im not familiar with he 3 light syndrome fully, is it not just a HDD failure. HDD's fail. its crap but they do if i have something with a 1 year warranty however that i have read on the forums is fprone to failure il buy it from currys and get cover on it, alternately il buy a new one when it fails outside of warranty. its crap that MS are using Cheap hdd;s that are prone to failure but so do HP/Copmaq in their laptops i dont see people raging that this is a major conspiracey.

im fully aware of MS's reputation of stealing from others but i think that point and bear in mind that its not fact its speculation that they got where they were from stealing is kind of shot down as its not really for or against the arguement as to weather banning consoles for being modded is a good or bad idea. im pretty sure they got where they are from more than just stealing. they must be offering some good stuff if they are the richest company in the worldSee I'm not stealing but protecting what is mine, I have every right to do so. I Back up all my media and store away such as CD's. I rip them into MP3's and put the disk away.

As for the 3 red light syndrome thats not a HDD problem but a manufacturing problem that plagues more then half the units out there except the new Elite 360.

[Deap]

I dont blame you for backing stuff up for say in the case of house fires, burgalaries or natural disasters in this case i would use my house insurance, i only normally back up irriplaceable stuff like family photos or my music collection but to each his own ripping mp3's serves the purpose of protecting you cd's whilst having easyer access to your music collection and the software is out there to let you do this you dont need to mod the device that you do this on either. its just much more practical to rip you music to your pc or whatever device you do it on. but with xbox games you ahve to rip the image, encode it onto the correct format create the iso burn the disc for a backup of a game you may never break, its not like a cd where you put it in the drive then out then in then out, you put it on your box 10 or 20 times until your bored of it then sell it on or put it away maybe play it once r twice in the future is it really worth all that hasstle to have a backup? dont use having kids as your excuse it just makes you look like a bad parent who cant control his children.

oh and i doubt the red light syndrome happens on over 50% of units. i know 30+ people who have xbox's and none of them have had HDD issues. in fact ive never even heard from a friend of a friend anybody who has had this problem and 3 of my firends work at a GAME store i used to work at.

il bet its less than 10% probably even 5%

[mmicrosysm]

oh and i doubt the red light syndrome happens on over 50% of units. i know 30+ people who have xbox's and none of them have had HDD issues. in fact ive never even heard from a friend of a friend anybody who has had this problem and 3 of my firends work at a GAME store i used to work at.

il bet its less than 10% probably even 5%EA has been quoted in saying at least 45% of the 360 are plagued with this defect and it effects the CPU and GPU again not the HDD (Hard Drive).

[Deap]

can you provide me a source to that quote?

[KingPepper]

Microsoft Have just Given the Next Gen War to Sony and its PS3, Because as more and More People get Banned from Xbox Live, they are all going to Change Formats & start Using there PS3's Instead, and so Making the PS3 the Dominate Console..............:eek:

Also there is No Reason Now to use So Called Backups of your Originals, as in every GAMESTATION Shop in England, they have a Disc Repair Unit in there to Repair all Discs, Scratched or Not....For £2.99 i think it said!!!
So Disc's will Last for Ever now, well longer than the life of your Modded 360 anyway :D

[n0rthstar]

ok i was not aware of Those T&C but the point owas that its not MS problem if someone sells a modded console, or if someone buys one. if it is agains the T&C to sell one and the buyer finds out he has recieved a modded box, they can inform ebay that the seller sold this under false pretences and if they paid by paypal can escilate the claim and forcefully recieve their money back.

thanks for pointing out the flaw in my post but the point is the buyer is protected if they follow the right chanels.

regarding MS allowing this for so long? when has MS ALLOWED? this, they put security on their product and hackers have found a way to circumvent this. they have never allowed it bu it takes time to get the legal precidence to crackdown on things like this and i think they are being fair by just booting you off live. they arent stopping modded consoles from playing backups. you can stoll play all the free games you want, you jsut aent allowed access to the premium service.they created the service they can say who does and doesn't have access.

I dont live in a bubble world i live in the real world, i can tell because all the things i stand for like banning cheaters and modders is happening in my world and i fully support this. you seem to believe that you and i are in different worlds but let me just ask in the world you are in are MS banning modders from live or is it a different world where MS should be bending over to everyone who wants to continue software piracy.

i must have some allies in here, back me up please!

Theres a big difference to piracy and banning people who buy the original game to play on Live... Why ban the console, stop ALL backup games working on Live... that would solve the problem.

I CAN see a very big problems banning modded consoles... and yes, we all know its not legal to mod it, thats besides the point, millions of people do for whatever reasons they have, be it to keep their originals safe or just to play pirate games... at the end of the day stopping backups working on Live forces these people to BUY the game they want to play against others = more money in developers/M$ pockets.

Heres the problems with banning consoles.

#1 Loss of a lot of subscribers = a lot of revenue.

#2 Loss of people buying original games to play on Live.

#3 Joe Blogs buying a secondhand console not only from ebay but other places too... only to find s/he cant get on live because its a banned console.

#4 The people who have sent their console to M$ to be fixed and recieved a previously modded console back... ut oh.

[mmicrosysm]

can you provide me a source to that quote?"An insider at Electronic Arts told GameDaily that the Xbox 360 failure rates were around 30-50 percent and not the 3-5 percent Microsoft suggested. This insider also pointed out that Dead Rising seemed to make things much worse. Then, he or she or it said that owning a PLAYSTATION 3 in the long run will be cheaper than an Xbox 360, once you factor in out-of-warranty repair fees. Here is Microsoft's response:

We can't speak directly to the situation at EA and the conditions of use of each one of our consoles and would encourage you to contact them directly. What we can tell you is that the vast majority of Xbox 360 owners are having an outstanding experience with their new systems. Each incident is unique and these customer inquires are being handled on a case-by-case basis. We have not seen anything out of the ordinary in the current return situation that we experience."

Do a search for Xbox 360 failure rate in your favorite search engine.

[mmicrosysm]

Theres a big difference to piracy and banning people who buy the original game to play on Live... Why ban the console, stop ALL backup games working on Live... that would solve the problem.Totally agree man ban the game not the system. If I want to play on live I'll bust the seal off my original :D

[pCeSlAyEr]

I have a modded 360, but my uses are slightly different. I have 2 360's 1 modded one unmodded. I'll be damned if I have to buy 2 copies of the same game so that my wife/friends/kids can play at the same time as me... and my wife plays alot of games. we both enjoy coop and online play with eachother.

whatever though, i'm not stressing that its banned I knew it would probably happen sooner or later, but whats funny is I bought crackdown and either rented or own every other game you see on my achievement list. I got busted with Halo 3 using my backup of crackdown :(

also MS's banning is BS because a modded 360 gives no advantages to the user in any game. none of the game data can be altered or the 360 will reject it. everything must retain its signature and hash/md5.

whatever.. it does suck that the system cannot touch live even with a retail game. so all of that d/l content is stuck locked to that system :(

[thePANICHIOteam]

Its a bad move by M$. People that indulge in piracy dont reflect lost sales. They will not be forced into buying the games, most will only buy the occasional game. We are being ripped off at £50 a game, with no clear explanation at why games cost this much. Is not as if theyre sharing with the Devs that actually make the games. Piracy doesnt automatically = bad. Dont let propaganda from big wigs at top companies fool you. Steve Balmer says if you download music you are a thief. I know quite a few thiefs. The laws for physical property dont apply to creative works as many theories point out.
I cant remeber the last time I saw a poor M$ executive, or the last time I seen 50 cent without a couple hundred grands worth of jewllery on. Then they've got the cheek to call ordinary working class people thiefs.

Untill there is a pricing system that rewards the companies fairly but also treats customers fairly then they can go to hell.

They are just going to lose money from people getting live accounts.

It marks the start of the death of the 360. Ability to mod would have kept it selling for a long time.

In a year it will hardly sell at all, then after 2 years they wont make many games for it, its over.

[pCeSlAyEr]

Theres a big difference to piracy and banning people who buy the original game to play on Live... Why ban the console, stop ALL backup games working on Live... that would solve the problem.

I CAN see a very big problems banning modded consoles... and yes, we all know its not legal to mod it, thats besides the point, millions of people do for whatever reasons they have, be it to keep their originals safe or just to play pirate games... at the end of the day stopping backups working on Live forces these people to BUY the game they want to play against others = more money in developers/M$ pockets.

Heres the problems with banning consoles.

#1 Loss of a lot of subscribers = a lot of revenue.

#2 Loss of people buying original games to play on Live.

#3 Joe Blogs buying a secondhand console not only from ebay but other places too... only to find s/he cant get on live because its a banned console.

#4 The people who have sent their console to M$ to be fixed and recieved a previously modded console back... ut oh.

I agree 100%

[KainXS]

I actually sold a banned xbox 360 to some guy on ebay for 236 and a day and a half later he put it on ebay saying it was new

either way you look at it, somebody's bought a banned console

its called Xbox 360 New - AS-IS

DO NOT BUY THIS AND DO NOT BUY FROM THE SELLER EITHER. HE ONLY SELLS BANNED 360's

[pCeSlAyEr]

I actually sold a banned xbox 360 to some guy on ebay for 236 and a day and a half later he put it on ebay saying it was new

either way you look at it, somebody's bought a banned console

its called Xbox 360 New - AS-IS

DO NOT BUY THIS AND DO NOT BUY FROM THE SELLER EITHER. HE ONLY SELLS BANNED 360's
man.. and just when I was about to use ebay to buy up a few of RLOD 360's for cheap and repair them... now I have to wade though the banned ones aswell..

man this sucks..:(

[bondbillon]

All the stuff I read about is Ebay..... What if the persons go to EB Games or Gamestop and trade their systems to the elite system?? Or to a PS3 paying the difference in $$$ of course.... The people that buy the already used machine will have a surprise when they connect to the XBOX Live network....
What can M$ do about that if you buy the machine from those shops?? That's not Ebay........ I smell a lot of problems to M$ and to those stores that sell used systems....... ;)

[pCeSlAyEr]

All the stuff I read about is Ebay..... What if the persons go to EB Games or Gamestop and trade their systems to the elite system?? Or to a PS3 paying the difference in $$$ of course.... The people that buy the already used machine will have a surprise when they connect to the XBOX Live network....
What can M$ do about that if you buy the machine from those shops?? That's not Ebay........ I smell a lot of problems to M$ and to those stores that sell used systems....... ;)
my buddy works at EB games and they dont even bother to check to see if that seal is intact when taking a trade in... they just power it up.

[alkalinetrio]

the day i bought my launch 360 and put in a brand new copy of CoD2 (£49.99)
yes launch games in the UK was equivalent to over $100 USD.

The moment i turned it on and heard strange noises then found a giant ring carved into the disc, only to be told by MS that its my fault was teh day i never wanted to purchase a single game for it ever again.

Not banned from live yet as i KNEW this was the update that was going to screw and i didn't go on live with a retail or back up disc since the update. and was going to give it 4 weeks. well the bannings began.

anything involving a huge game like halo, was obvious something was going to be implemented.

and yes... as usual MS has COMPLETELY gone about it the wrong way.

as i mentioned before, the ebay/ eb problems will arise but i thought a bigger problem would involve the thousands of refurbished machines ( god knows how many of those are flashed and banned ) get in the hands of innocent gamers. Screwed by the 3 lights, screwed by paying the repair then screwed gettign a banned console!

[bondbillon]

my buddy works at EB games and they dont even bother to check to see if that seal is intact when taking a trade in... they just power it up.

I know because I already traded a PS2 to one if these stores. They only check that the machine is working. They pay you a lot of less $$$ and gain more from that. But they will start receiving this machines, thats a fact. But the people that buy these machine will not know what they're up to...

We will see how M$ and those stores will handle this..... ;)

[saleem]

then comes the big question,would it be possible for them to stop pirates booting at all?i think not myself.

also how many consoles sell annualy for pirated games purpose?

basicly anyone who sells a console and withholds the fact the console is banned from xboxlive is a person with no morals.but,they would just give the bull about "i forgot" or"they never asked" pathethic lttle persons indeed.okay sell a prehacked console and tell them its banne,no sweat.

also about time for ms to get their finger outta their ass and stop accepting consoles with breached warranties.they should introduce a more stringent way of putting the warranty seals on the consoles.like the warranty seal and a checked for warranty seal.if both are tampered with in any way or removed they should send it back.

i get sick of people who keep posting in the in sent a modded 360 back to ms for repair thread.they are basicly thieves.

also sick and tired of them coming up with the "well its not my fault it went red lights thats ms's" but,its their fault it was warranty breached.

see ms accept the units,but,say they dont tolerate pirates on hacked consoles online.uh!where is the logic in that?

also i have not to the best of my knowledge encountered a cheater if you can call them that who uses a modded version of a game to the best of my knowledge.if there is a glitch in the game that can be and is exploited then thats the developers fault,fix it so it cant be.

bad news and you got a point that has been brought up in the hacking forum,someone even said they went to trade in a console at a shop and was told they wasnt accepting them due to the fact that consoles were being banned and that was a policy.

nice topic.
:)

[So-Unreal]

ungrateful

Be happy you can still play the games!

[Scorpion3]

ungrateful

Be happy you can still play the games!

Seriously, I can't believe peopl are using this as an excuse to sell their consoles. Rofl. There was a time that Live wasn't around, true internet gaming sucked before Live, but even still...games still have offline play for a reason.

[cammy1011]

Your right,we all knew it was coming sooner or later,just didnt know when,now its here and it sucks.

[MadonnaProject]

hahahaha....i cannot give a SMALLER FUKK if microsoft ban me from live or not. as soon as i heard news of the banning, i disconnected, called them up and CANCELLED my subscription.

i only played burnout on live anyways, tried playing f.e.a.r and graw2 but didnt get into them, and i always thought i had ABSOLUTELY NO use for live apart from burnout, and now i actually have an excuse to not pay for the overpriced service.

thank you for giving me a reason to stop paying for your overpriced service. dont miss ya, wouldnt wanna kiss ya. oh and by the way, it plays just as great on xbconnect.

:D

all my friends (about 6 people) have migrated to connect already!!!!

[MadonnaProject]

What I Would Like Is To Get Very Cheap Banned Xbox360's Off Of Live.

:d

Woo Hoo....

[thebox]

hahahaha....i cannot give a SMALLER FUKK if microsoft ban me from live or not. as soon as i heard news of the banning, i disconnected, called them up and CANCELLED my subscription.

i only played burnout on live anyways, tried playing f.e.a.r and graw2 but didnt get into them, and i always thought i had ABSOLUTELY NO use for live apart from burnout, and now i actually have an excuse to not pay for the overpriced service.

thank you for giving me a reason to stop paying for your overpriced service. dont miss ya, wouldnt wanna kiss ya. oh and by the way, it plays just as great on xbconnect.

:D

all my friends (about 6 people) have migrated to connect already!!!!

$4 a mo. is overpriced? How do you have an internet connection in your cardboard box?
Although xbconnect is cool! Not as cool as live!

[Totalfixation]

and im still not banned! im amazing


Last i looked on xbox live you signed on not more than 5 hours ago.

your quote even say "PS3 PWNED MY 360" it just seem you are trying to bash the 360.

[SteveNZ]

I fail to see how this is any different to MS banning the original Xboxes that had been modchipped. If you mod it, your warranty is banned and all risk is on your head.

That said, I'm sure my original Xbox used to be banned, but it's not now. Not that I particularly care as there's a problem with my account that MS can't fix that causes voice-support to be disabled in original Xbox games on Xbox or Xbox360.

[Scorpion3]

Last i looked on xbox live you signed on not more than 5 hours ago.

your quote even say "PS3 PWNED MY 360" it just seem you are trying to bash the 360.

That could be because he tries to appear as a Sony fanboy at every turn. Or at least that's how he maks himself look.

[cardboardbox]

Seriously, I can't believe peopl are using this as an excuse to sell their consoles. Rofl. There was a time that Live wasn't around, true internet gaming sucked before Live, but even still...games still have offline play for a reason.damn, I wonder how I played those PC games online in the 90s.

[pavel]

buying on ebay worked for me...I bought a used system, who already had the console number registered somewhere else. I haven;t got banned yet

[SSChevy2001]

I fail to see how this is any different to MS banning the original Xboxes that had been modchipped. If you mod it, your warranty is banned and all risk is on your head.

That said, I'm sure my original Xbox used to be banned, but it's not now. Not that I particularly care as there's a problem with my account that MS can't fix that causes voice-support to be disabled in original Xbox games on Xbox or Xbox360.There's a big difference between the xbox1 ban and the 360. The xbox1 could run unsigned code, which the 360 still can't. I'm more that certain Epic could of fixed the ini problem that allowed hacks to Gears of War, which is so far the only hacked game, but instead MS choose to ban consoles from Live instead.

Even better as most have said, why no just banned backup games instead of the console? That's what Sony did with the PS2. Or why not allow modded consoles back on Live after the firmware is restored back to original, certainly if they can check for modded firmwares, they can also check to see if it's restored back to original.

Also what does this say for people that just want to replace a bad DVD drive? Can we just replace the drive or will that trigger a ban?

My consoles was banned and I want to get a second 360 core just for online. Only I really wanted to wait for the 65nm dies, just bad timing on MS part. Oh well now what do I do? Thanks MS for leaving me options! :rolleyes:

[pCeSlAyEr]

There's a big difference between the xbox1 ban and the 360. The xbox1 could run unsigned code, which the 360 still can't. I'm more that certain Epic could of fixed the ini problem that allowed hacks to Gears of War, which is so far the only hacked game, but instead MS choose to ban consoles from Live instead.

Even better as most have said, why no just banned backup games instead of the console? That's what Sony did with the PS2. Or why not allow modded consoles back on Live after the firmware is restored back to original, certainly if they can check for modded firmwares, they can also check to see if it's restored back to original.

Also what does this say for people that just want to replace a bad DVD drive? Can we just replace the drive or will that trigger a ban?

My consoles was banned and I want to get a second 360 core just for online. Only I really wanted to wait for the 65nm dies, just bad timing on MS part. Oh well now what do I do? Thanks MS for leaving me options! :rolleyes:
Just do what i'm doing... scower ebay for a RLOD 360 with all the connections and no HDD and fix it... the fix is easy as sh!t..

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=599216

[SSChevy2001]

Just do what i'm doing... scower ebay for a RLOD 360 with all the connections and no HDD and fix it... the fix is easy as sh!t..

http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=599216LOL. I just got back from the ebay page, tommorow if I find something good I'll buy it. You can bet if I buy it used the first thing I will do is the X-Clamp replacement. Just hope MS doesn't really piss me off and release the 65nm 360 anytime soon. Knowing my luck a month later a release date will come out.

[Scorpion3]

damn, I wonder how I played those PC games online in the 90s.

Could be because I was refering the consoles? Hm...Yep, that's exactly it. You know, this site is called MaxCONSOLE and doesn't have a PC section...so...yeah, point made.

[wadsy]

What are the consequences of Microsoft's crackdown? For me none, for Microsoft hmmmm live service numbers will drop like a stone.

Well anyway I cancelled my account when the spring update first came out not because of the issues concerned here but because of Microsoft’s yes and no men, Yes men at the top and no men on the help desks. Why should I pay top dollar for a service that they cannot/will not provide me with any help?

1st call to Microsoft support ages ago was with battlefield 2 I rang to say look I can connect to live but not with battlefield. They diagnosed the problem to be EA's problem with dedicated servers and they couldn't help me. When I asked why I was paying them money for a service they cannot help me with they said it was EA's problem and I should call them on there premium number.
Lucky enough for me after the phone call it started working again.

2nd call to Microsoft support came with the spring update. I wanted to change the email address associated with Xbox live account, I had meant to do it ages ago when I changed ISP but was quite happy because I wasn't getting annoying Xbox live emails sent to me but with the spring update I wanted to use the new messenger features.
How hacked off was I when I was told that once an email address is associated with a live account that’s it. I was told to create a new account with the correct email address or to import them 1 by 1. Great feature there from Microsoft you can have a buddy list online with 600 friends you only have to import one at a time.

3rd call to cancel live

Why should I pay for a service when Microsoft is trying to discourage as many users it can from its use?

[DEDDOA]

Personally, i'd have gone with just banning gold access. If they just banned accounts, you could create another one so it would just be ineffective. If I was MS I would do this.

1. Block Gold accounts on hacked consoles
2. All new games come with a code/serial/key (like on PC games), this code/serial/key is locked to the console (so can't be used on other 360's).
3. Non Banned consoles would need only enter the key once and be allowed on live.
4. Banned consoles would be allowed on live but would have to enter the code for each game before playing on live.

That in my view would fix the problem, hackers would still be able to play on live, but would have to pay via a code that only works for that console.

They could also add a key to each disk that is read on startup, so that the key on the disk is paired with the key for XBL, so that if the game is copied it can be recognised and XBL key or not will be a banned (just that copy of the game).

Maybe a little complex, but it would be little hassle for non modded console owners (just a one off thing first time the game is run), but still enable MS to make money out of hackers.

Tho that said, the policy is that anything that "could" lead to cheating (even though I have yet to hear of any being possible using the firmware hack) means the entire console is banned to reduce the risk of any possible cheating.

[cuppajoe]

Again FU douche bag

My, what a shining example you must be to your kids..

[modojojo]

Seriously, I can't believe peopl are using this as an excuse to sell their consoles. Rofl. There was a time that Live wasn't around, true internet gaming sucked before Live, but even still...games still have offline play for a reason.

Yeah I agree. It was no big deal to me. I never really played my games online. However MS did loose revenue from me with a live subscription and the marketplace. Now they won't get any more money from me as far as the 360 Is concerned. They shoudl've just banned you for playing copied games online, not the marketplace. They took money out of there own pocket.

[gonepostl]

I don't think it's right.
But it's THEIR right to do so. If it effects fair consumers though that's a completely different story. We don't live in an ideal world unfortunetly but Microsoft are responsible to cleanup what they implemented I think that's very fair to say. If they can't do that then that's not fair

[Murc]

MS has sure created a big mess....one that I dont see how they are going to clean up...unless they start un-banning everyone that they have banned these past few days.

and I agree with the majority of people...the best option MS could of chose would of been to ban Gold subscriptions only...banning gold & silver will hurt their revenue flow.

Deap- The ROD is much lower now then it used to be....some were cause by just plain faulty equipment, but its known that the main cause of it was overheating...and the culprit...thermal paste...something that only costs a few bucks. (thermal paste is a paste that goes in between the cpu & the heatsink...it helps transfer the heat from the toasty processor into the heatsink, which dissipates the heat.

SSChevy2001 - wrong, the 360 has been hacked, several months ago, it ran unsigned code...it was the old kernel that could do this...meaning if you updated you consoles dashboard with the fall 06' update...Microsoft changed the kernel, and the new kernel cant run the unsigned code, and they blew the efuse (which is a electronic fuse...so no, you cant simply go to walmart and buy a new fuse)...blowing the efuse prevents people who updated their console...from going back to the old (hacked) kernel.

On a side note, I'm hoping that now the hackers dont have to try and figure out ways to avoid MS detection....so now they should just get to work on hacking the 360 wide open like the first xbox, and come out with a XBMC360.

[sneef]

ok so because you have kids you think its ok to mod a console and backup games, perhaps a better idea would be to keep prised posesssions out of reach of your kids?

And whats with the FU! this is a discussion forum and yoyr swearing at me for having an apposed opinion.

perhaps then if you have time when your not slobbing on the couch or drinking yourself to sleep. spend some time with your kids explaining to them wright and wrong and what things they are allowed to touch ect. its not that difficult to be a parent. you just need to actually put some effort in

my parents managed to raise me not to keep breaking CD's or other objects belonging to them i probably broke 1 VHS tape ever. they then taught me a lesson i never did it again.

dont tell me FU you F*cking YOB!
learn how to spell, idiot.

[RAISH]

just buy another damn console and be done with it. I've picked up a core for £150. Not bad.

[ZildjianKX]

Like many, I think it's absolutely stupid for MS to ban access to Xbox Live Silver features on modded consoles. My console was banned and I personally spend a LOT of money on XBL content. Way to prevent me from giving you my money.

I would buy a 2nd console just for XBL, but like many I'm waiting for a quiter conole with HDMI output (~$300). Of course I might get impatient and just buy a PS3 instead, not sure yet.

A very important issue comes up with buying a replacement console. MS does NOT allow the transfering of DRMed XBL content to a new console. Of course the content is tied to the gamertag, but you'll still have to sign into XBL to play the DRMed XBL content. I personally will not buy a new 360 until they change this archaic policy (people who are upgrading to the Elite console have also been upset about this).

[cory149]

if i bought a car from ebay that was still under manufacturer gaurentee and it had had the engine chipped. the manufacturer will imediately end my warranty for modifying the vehicle i didnt do it but it isnt their problem to police the sale of second hand versions of their product.
:rolleyes:
Last time I checked, no manufacturer of cars will stop selling you service and parts after warranty, in fact, most warranty centers will be glad to charge you the premium rate for quality service of your out of warranty car. And generally speaking, warranty is not transferable on any used merchandise anyway, including consoles. They most certainly wouldn't disallow you from using the "gas" you already purchased from them in that specific car simply because your warranty is void ('nuff said about the extremely bad comparison).

The only consequence I suffer is knowing I didn't spend any money on titles or a console to further fuel the oddity that M$ seems to think it can create law by feeding lawyers money, and seem to justify punishing potential thieves by essentially stealing value from their customers (and, essentially calling them thieves) who have already paid them but have not received what they paid for (the pot becomes the kettle, and they may well both be black).

Theft is theft, one theft does not justify another - especially when it is from those who claim to be taking the "high road". To me, they seem to be justifying another company reversing their protocols and coming to bat for a revenue producing service to compete with "Live" and give M$'s disgruntled customers a choice.

[KainXS]

whatever you do do not buy a used 360 on ebay and unless the person has at least 97 percent feedback its not worth it
theres some people with 100 percent feedback who sell banned consoles anyway but this should be easily detectable

im mad because now a console which i got banned console is being sold and it makes me feel strange

thats the only way i know how to put it

[Shroud]

If MS is so worried that everyone is pirating their system and no one is performing real backups they should let you return games that are no longer working, I.E. scratched, damaged, etc.. with a modest $5 return shipping fee to replace the original game with no questions asked.
The games here in Spain are 70 euros which is over $100 USD, except the problem is that an average Spaniard makes about 20,000 euros a year so its very expensive to buy a game and have it damaged for reasons that are not in your control.
Anyways I find it very ironic that people are defending MS on a site that advertises modchips.

[lee6370]

The only consequence I suffer is knowing I didn't spend any money on titles or a console to further fuel the oddity that M$ seems to think it can create law by feeding lawyers money, and seem to justify punishing potential thieves by essentially stealing value from their customers (and, essentially calling them thieves) who have already paid them but have not received what they paid for (the pot becomes the kettle, and they may well both be black).

Theft is theft, one theft does not justify another - especially when it is from those who claim to be taking the "high road". To me, they seem to be justifying another company reversing their protocols and coming to bat for a revenue producing service to compete with "Live" and give M$'s disgruntled customers a choice.

MS have stolen nothing from you, your account is still active, and you can still access it. Just not from a modded system.

It's like saying you bought a holiday home abroad, and fly there in a stolen plane, but the person who sold you the holiday home takes away the stolen plane, you still own the holiday home and can still go there and use it, you just have to get to it without stealing some transport.

[xtubbyx]

You knew when you got it hacked that someday down the road MICROSOFT was going to put a patch out on Live or on a game. It's just common sense. This happened back in the day with the original Xbox all you had to do was buy a new system and that was that. All you people crying about "I got banned wah wah" buy a new system transfer your live account over, bam mission complete. They banned your system not your account be grateful you didn't lose money. If you dont wanna spend money on a shitty game, do some research online and read reviews calculate the percentage of good to bad review ration, save some money buy the game, help the company make better games with the money you used to pay for it.


Shut up you pansies already.

[loliix]

You knew when you got it hacked that someday down the road MICROSOFT was going to put a patch out on Live or on a game. It's just common sense. This happened back in the day with the original Xbox all you had to do was buy a new system and that was that. All you people crying about "I got banned wah wah" buy a new system transfer your live account over, bam mission complete. They banned your system not your account be grateful you didn't lose money. If you dont wanna spend money on a shitty game, do some research online and read reviews calculate the percentage of good to bad review ration, save some money buy the game, help the company make better games with the money you used to pay for it.


Shut up you pansies already.Dude, if you actually read the posts people made you would be aware must of us aren't against the concept of banning piracy, neither care that much for our loss of Live!

What we can't understand is how Microsoft can do one thing right (banning backups online) and straight after do a stupid thing, banning access to Marketplace contents that no one could get without paying the full price for it.

It was a unnecessary move that is costing them the values of those microtransactions and lowering their acceptance statistics.
Why do we care? Because we wanted XBOX360 to set a role model of what PS3 should have been if Sony didn't make all those PR mistakes. It seams that Microsoft was only warming up to do their own share of mistakes..

[Knives]

It's lame to be locked of arcade, or marketplace.

I guess M$ don't care about making money.

I'll go buy a defective red light xbox and fix it and get back on live for cheap.

Suck my **** M$!

[starteck2002]

imagine banning 10,000 people from your store

Imagine if those 10,000 people were all shoplifting....

[Knives]

Why we are defending M$ here, go xbox.com, and have fun there.

I thought this was modchip site. LOL!

[starteck2002]

Why we are defending M$ here, go xbox.com, and have fun there.

I thought this was modchip site. LOL!


er... no, it's not a 'modchip' site. it's a console *cough* news *cough* site - here to keep us mere mortals informed of the latest developments in the console world.

[Knives]

Why they review modchips then, and talk about firmware in the forums then. :rolleyes:

[starteck2002]

Why they review modchips then, and talk about firmware in the forums then. :rolleyes:

A modchip or firmware release could be considered as news. The BBC often reports about murders - this doesn't make the a 'Murder Channel' does it?

Anyway, way off topic here....

[lee6370]

Dude, if you actually read the posts people made you would be aware must of us aren't against the concept of banning piracy, neither care that much for our loss of Live!

What we can't understand is how Microsoft can do one thing right (banning backups online) and straight after do a stupid thing, banning access to Marketplace contents that no one could get without paying the full price for it.

It was a unnecessary move that is costing them the values of those microtransactions and lowering their acceptance statistics.
Why do we care? Because we wanted XBOX360 to set a role model of what PS3 should have been if Sony didn't make all those PR mistakes. It seams that Microsoft was only warming up to do their own share of mistakes..

You just don't get it do you.

You seem to think that it's ok to pirate games and that MS are wrong to take action, it's there market place and if they want to ban you then they can and have.

They can't stop you playing your pirated games but they can stop you using there online services, now several things will happen as a result of this action.

1. People will not use Live or the market place - MS lose some money, but nothing compared to what they are losing by the same people stealing games.

2. Some people will buy a second console, get some legit games and get back on Live and the market place.

Now I don't know the how many people MS need to act on point 2 to offset point 1, but I’d bet given that a large percentage of people will buy another console and use it to get back on Live, then the financial lose MS will face is a lot lower than you think and in fact given that no one who wants to go online in the future will be able to mod their console than long term they will benefit from this.

Let me ask you this if you owned 2 shops and caught someone stealing from one of them would you ban them from the one they stole from or would you ban them from both shops?

[wadsy]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

not seen this then (http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=604157)

hopefully tis true

[n0rthstar]

1. People will not use Live or the market place - MS lose some money, but nothing compared to what they are losing by the same people stealing games..

These same people will continue pirating games whether they are on Live or not, in fact they have even less incentive to buy the game at all. Why buy a game if you cant get on Live anyway, just copy it and play alone... or on Xlink-Kai/XBC. Now if they allowed original games to be played and block all backups on Live then people have a reason to actually buy the games to play on their service. It also puts pressure on the people making games to make em worth playing online rather than knock out shoddy crap.

Unless M$ pull their finger outta their ass i see their sevice degrading.
There will be less people to play against because of the console banning. Noobs who bought a secondhand console to play on their service only to find it banned wont bother buying original games... why should s/he when a copy will work just as well as an original game... In the long run they are forcing banned console to be used for piracy with little incentive to buy any original games for it at all... and people who cant afford to buy a second console is gonna do just that.

[Xenogears V]

Banned, ugly thing, however I remember a cd utility for Ps2, that succeeded in changing id of the console for the games on line, I believe that soon someone will invent the same thing for 360.:rolleyes:

[lee6370]

These same people will continue pirating games whether they are on Live or not, in fact they have even less incentive to buy the game at all. Why buy a game if you cant get on Live anyway, just copy it and play alone... or on Xlink-Kai/XBC. Now if they allowed original games to be played and block all backups on Live then people have a reason to actually buy the games to play on their service.

2 points.

1. To say "people will continue to pirate games whether on live or not" is no reason for MS to not ban them. -
Thats like saying to a shoplifter if we fine you, will it stop you from shoplifting? and them saying "no i'm going to continue shoplifting even if you fine me", oh ok then no point in fining you is there, since your going to do it anyway, of you go and carry on stealing.

2. MS should allow machines that they know to have been modded for the purpose of playing pirated games to use it's services as long as it's with a genuine game. -
For gods sake man their whole business plan is based on selling the console's at either a lose or very little profit, so that they can make money on the games, would you let someone you know who is stealing from you still use a service you offered? even if it did mean you lost a few more quid?

[johnnewhouse]

but if you are not at all interested in playing on live, then microsoft are only removing a possible future revenue stream from themselves, and not hurting the person stealing from them at all.

i just dont get it.
why not update the firmware to not allow copied disks to be played?? they can clearly tell now

[n0rthstar]

2 points.

1. To say "people will continue to pirate games whether on live or not" is no reason for MS to not ban them. -
Thats like saying to a shoplifter if we fine you, will it stop you from shoplifting? and them saying "no i'm going to continue shoplifting even if you fine me", oh ok then no point in fining you is there, since your going to do it anyway, of you go and carry on stealing.

2. MS should allow machines that they know to have been modded for the purpose of playing pirated games to use it's services as long as it's with a genuine game. -
For gods sake man their whole business plan is based on selling the console's at either a lose or very little profit, so that they can make money on the games, would you let someone you know who is stealing from you still use a service you offered? even if it did mean you lost a few more quid?

Hey ban em all, no skin off my nose. Im just giving you my opinion on the situation. Ban every single moded console on Live and these consoles will still be used to play copied games anyway... thats not gonna change by banning the console from going on their services, its just gonna force them to play ONLY copied games... as i said.

[lee6370]

but if you are not at all interested in playing on live, then microsoft are only removing a possible future revenue stream from themselves, and not hurting the person stealing from them at all.

i just dont get it.
why not update the firmware to not allow copied disks to be played?? they can clearly tell now

If the person isn't on live then MS arn't earning anything from them anyway, and the fact that they might in the future, well my point still stands. Would you let someone who's stole form you use a service you provided, even if it meant losing a few more quid?

Who said future FW upgrades won't prevent the use of backups, at the monent they looking after Live, the next update might be very differant.

[lee6370]

Hey ban em all, no skin off my nose. Im just giving you my opinion on the situation. Ban every single moded console on Live and these consoles will still be used to play copied games anyway... thats not gonna change by banning the console from going on their services, its just gonna force them to play ONLY copied games... as i said.

You really are thick aren't you.

If a console is being used to play backups and it's now banned it will still be used for backups, this is true but it's also true that if it hadn't been banned it would still be used for backups.
So what has MS lost? nothing.
What has MS gained nothing, except the satisfaction of knowing they have stopped a few pirates enjoying their services.

To say the ban is going to force people to ONLY play copied games is stupid, if you want to get on Live you will get another machine (i know a few people who are already doing this) if you're not bothered about Live then you'll do as you have always done and carry on playing your back ups (just not on Live). So what has MS lost nothing.
What has MS gained, some console sales, and game sales.

It really is that simple, you stole, got caught, got punished, get over it.

[n0rthstar]

You really are thick aren't you.

If a console is being used to play backups and it's now banned it will still be used for backups, this is true but it's also true that if it hadn't been banned it would still be used for backups.
So what has MS lost? nothing.
What has MS gained nothing, except the satisfaction of knowing they have stopped a few pirates enjoying their services.

To say the ban is going to force people to ONLY play copied games is stupid, if you want to get on Live you will get another machine (i know a few people who are already doing this) if you're not bothered about Live then you'll do as you have always done and carry on playing your back ups (just not on Live). So what has MS lost nothing.
What has MS gained, some console sales, and game sales.

It really is that simple, you stole, got caught, got punished, get over it.

I hate conversing with idiotic people like yourself... but i'll give it one last try.

IF a console is being used for backups and is also on Live but backups are being blocked from being played on their service = the person HAS to buy said game to play it online. So M$ loses original game sales. If M$ blocks modded console alltogether then it will ONLY be used to play backup games.

If people buy another console to play on live they will #1 STILL have the modded console to play backups offline and only be buying certain games to play on their newly bought console... or #2 sell old console to pay for new console (old console STILL banned) and still only gonna be used to play backup games either way... how does this benefit M$ at all?

Try convincing someone else that your argument and silly schoolboy comparisons to stealing things hold any water.

This conversation with you is over because you lack respect for other peoples opinions and insult them with "You really are thick aren't you"... i have very little time for people like you.

[lee6370]

This conversation with you is over because you lack respect for other peoples opinions and insult them with "You really are thick aren't you"... i have very little time for people like you.

I understand, it's not easy to take when you lose an arguement, never mind i'm sure you'll win one someday.

[n0rthstar]

I understand, it's not easy to take when you lose an arguement, never mind i'm sure you'll win one someday.

LMFAO @ that.

I didnt know it was an argument, at least not from my end. I thought it was a mature debate about consoles being banned.

Obviously your some little schoolboy who thinks everything is an argument. So theres no winning or losing for me, i dont argue with children. Take your childish behaviour to some teen forums, where people are more on your 'lower' level.

Its a shame theres disrespectful kids like you around, but im sure you feel safe behind your pc to act in such a manner... im quite sure you dont act like that in the big scary real world.

[DEDDOA]

Let me ask you this if you owned 2 shops and caught someone stealing from one of them would you ban them from the one they stole from or would you ban them from both shops?

In this case it more like, you don't ban the shoplifters you just don't let them come in and shoplift with other people, and you stop them from buying stuff from you on order. So essentially you are still being robbed but now you are making no income from the thieves at all.

The fact is that if people were playing copied games before they will carry on playing copied games now, just offline. The only people really who end up with a hole in their pocket is MS and that hole has now gotten a fair bit bigger. I doubt there are that many people who will buy another 360 and original games just to play online, most will just think "oh well, back to split screen and single player".

I am well aware it's within MS's rights to completely ban people, but the simple fact is, silver access was pirate free, and if anything made money from pirates. Look at games like oblivion, copy or not if you want the shivering isles and the other extra's you "must" buy it off live. I doubt MS will change the policy now, but either way it is a less than sound judgment by them from a financial standpoint.

Anyway, as some have already said, now that live is no longer somthing that has to be worked around, maybe hackers will start doing for the 360, what was done for the original xbox.

[lee6370]

LMFAO @ that.

I didnt know it was an argument, at least not from my end. I thought it was a mature debate about consoles being banned.

Obviously your some little schoolboy who thinks everything is an argument. So theres no winning or losing for me, i dont argue with children. Take your childish behaviour to some teen forums, where people are more on your 'lower' level.

Its a shame theres disrespectful kids like you around, but im sure you feel safe behind your pc to act in such a manner... im quite sure you dont act like that in the big scary real world.

oh dear, oh dear, we really are showing our age aren't we, you think an argument has to be two people shouting or taking aggressive stand points?

Let me educate you.

An argument is:

1. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate
2. Course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood
3. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason
4. Set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others

As you can see we were having an argument, and there are always winners and losers, whether to choose to acknowledge that fact or not.

It's a shame you don't argue with children, they have a way of looking at things that makes you have to work harder to get your point across, trust me arguing with children is much better than arguing with adults (who on the whole tend to have set views from which they refuse to move even when they are wrong, much like yourself)

and if you really think me a child, how much sadder for you to lose!

[marshcroft]

I have a flashed 360 for the reason when I bought my 360 I noticed the scratched disc syndrome, M$ customer service didnt want to know, so as soon as I could make backups and play then I did, all my games I own and I have backups of them, now I am banned. However I had Halo 3 and Forza 2 on order, luckily I have just managed to cancel both as I see no point in ever buying a game for a banned 360 as it wont play on live, so thanks Billy boy for saving me $130.

[joeschmoe.lyt]

Take your childish behaviour to some teen forums, where people are more on your 'lower' level.

What do you consider maxcuntzl to be? The Holy Grail?

[n0rthstar]

oh dear, oh dear, we really are showing our age aren't we, you think an argument has to be two people shouting or taking aggressive stand points?

Let me educate you.

An argument is:

1. A discussion in which disagreement is expressed; a debate
2. Course of reasoning aimed at demonstrating truth or falsehood
3. A fact or statement put forth as proof or evidence; a reason
4. Set of statements in which one follows logically as a conclusion from the others

As you can see we were having an argument, and there are always winners and losers, whether to choose to acknowledge that fact or not.

It's a shame you don't argue with children, they have a way of looking at things that makes you have to work harder to get your point across, trust me arguing with children is much better than arguing with adults (who on the whole tend to have set views from which they refuse to move even when they are wrong, much like yourself)

and if you really think me a child, how much sadder for you to lose!

Well i dont want to 'argue' the point but as i already stated "Im not arguing".

We can all go to dictionary.com to make ourselves look more intelligent than we really are by looking up the word "Arguing" or "Debating".

Im not acknowledging i am even arguing with you, so i cant possibly be losing or winning anything now can I?

I was debating with you, or so i thought, and the fact there seems to be many people disagreeing with your views on this board suggests only one thing... you're losing your own argument that you're having with yourself lol.

If you want to think you have won something fantastic, go right ahead, be my guest... i dont see any prizes being handed out to anyone.

I stand by what i said earlier about M$ and the way they have dealt with the situation, you can agree to disagree if you like, i dont win anything for my opinions and neither do you.

Heres a little Gold Star for your 'win' stick it on your forehead. :rolleyes:

[SSChevy2001]

SSChevy2001 - wrong, the 360 has been hacked, several months ago, it ran unsigned code...it was the old kernel that could do this...meaning if you updated you consoles dashboard with the fall 06' update...Microsoft changed the kernel, and the new kernel cant run the unsigned code, and they blew the efuse (which is a electronic fuse...so no, you cant simply go to walmart and buy a new fuse)...blowing the efuse prevents people who updated their console...from going back to the old (hacked) kernel.Your talking about the King Kong - linux thing. Surely that's nothing compared to xbox1 situation.

1) Not many poeple were able to run the exploit, including myself.
2) It's not like anyone of those people were able to run a modded games on LIVE, because of the older Kernel.

So honestly while yes I was wrong not to mention it. It still wouldn't effect LIVE cheating, which is really the point behind the banned. I stick with my guns that banning the console id is not best way, ban the backups.

[n0rthstar]

What do you consider maxcuntzl to be? The Holy Grail?

LOL naaa. I dunno why I expect better, but there you go. Maybe im too mature for games forums. :)

[lee6370]

Well i dont want to 'argue' the point but as i already stated "Im not arguing".

We can all go to dictionary.com to make ourselves look more intelligent than we really are by looking up the word "Arguing" or "Debating".

Im not acknowledging i am even arguing with you, so i cant possibly be losing or winning anything now can I?

I was debating with you, or so i thought, and the fact there seems to be many people disagreeing with your views on this board suggests only one thing... you're losing your own argument that you're having with yourself lol.

If you want to think you have won something fantastic, go right ahead, be my guest... i dont see any prizes being handed out to anyone.

I stand by what i said earlier about M$ and the way they have dealt with the situation, you can agree to disagree if you like, i dont win anything for my opinions and neither do you.

Heres a little Gold Star for your 'win' stick it on your forehead. :rolleyes:

lol, you’re excellent, "I'm not acknowledging I am even arguing with you" that very statement means you are arguing with me. you are taking an opposing view err go you are arguing.

So you've gone for the well everyone else thinks your wrong angle have you, not so sure of your own point of view you need to call on the opinion of others for support.

Here's another lesson for you, 25 million people voted for Hitler in 1933, just because so many people think something’s right doesn't make it so.

You don't see any prizes, where is your ambition, your sense of achievement, your will to win.

Thanks for the gold star, I’ll take it as acknowledge of your defeat.

[lee6370]

LOL naaa. I dunno why I expect better, but there you go. Maybe im too mature for games forums. :)

No all the time you feel the need to use smilies you’re definitely not too mature.

You seem to have a fixation about age, and keep making a point about it, so how old are you, just reached the grand old age of 17 1/2 have we?

[xTONE]

lol u guys are too funny. i agree with the FACT m$ only stands to lose more moeny here. i agree they have all rights in the world to ban who ever they want that mods anything on their console. but as has been said many times why the ban from silver? jus doesnt make sense. but i guess they are saying if u dont want to buy games we dont want your money at all! Ok now for the rest of this comment. many of u on here goin back and forth bout all this. u must understand there will always be pirates and there will always be people tryin to use these hacks to their own advantage as far as cheating. (if possible) at the same time there will be people trying to jus save themselves some hassle with scratched/lost/stolen games. but in the end guess wat happens. alot of banned console will be sold to unsuspecting people. the hackers that came with the firm will only make a new to get around all this. (bring on the cat and mouse game) And then m$ will only have to go thru all this again. its a never ending battle here. m$ needs to learn how to make sure copied game swill not access live. bannin consoles really solves nothing here. most of the firm modders will be back on live soon enuff! thats just my 2 cents...... bring on the flames lol

[loliix]

I am curious lee6370, please educate me since I obviously don't get it..

Like I have said, backups/pirated games are damaging for publishers and industry in general, so Microsoft had to ban them, no arguing there.
But no one could hack the marketplace, so the only thing anyone could do was either download free content or purchase content. No "shoplifting" available people!

So why not ban backups (to be clear, yes ban backups) and yet keep profiting from a store no one can "shoplift"?

You should know that Microsoft lost a lot of momentum with publishers when after rejoicing with the bans, they realized they couldn't rip-off a lot of pirates with micro-transactions but pirates could still rip them playing their games offline.. And this I am telling you first hand, just for you to know that not all publishers were happy with Microsoft way of doing things. [XBL Arcade publishers are the ones most affected, since hacking geeks were a major part of their market]

[lee6370]

I am curious lee6370, please educate me since I obviously don't get it..

Like I have said, backups/pirated games are damaging for publishers and industry in general, so Microsoft had to ban them, no arguing there.
But no one could hack the marketplace, so the only thing anyone could do was either download free content or purchase content. No "shoplifting" available people!

So why not ban backups (to be clear, yes ban backups) and yet keep profiting from a store no one can "shoplift"?

You should know that Microsoft lost a lot of momentum with publishers when after rejoicing with the bans, they realized they couldn't rip-off a lot of pirates with micro-transactions but pirates could still rip them playing their games offline.. And this I am telling you first hand, just for you to know that not all publishers were happy with Microsoft way of doing things. [XBL Arcade publishers are the ones most affected, since hacking geeks were a major part of their market]

Wow sarcasm, aren't we clever.

So what your saying is regardless of whether you can still play copies or not MS should let you access its sites and take your money. That by banning you they are only losing more money from micro-transactions.

Ok the amount of modded 360 is not as high as you think (the 360 has an attach rate of 5.3, at this stage of a consoles life that’s high which suggests minimal pirating of games)

MS has a choice.

1. Ban pirates and lose some cash on micro-transactions and Live.
2. Don't ban pirates and take their money from micro-transactions

Option 1.
They will lose money (-)
Some people will also buy a second 360 and buy a few games to play online (+)
It also sends out a warning to anyone thinking of modding their systems that if you do you will lose Live and all MS online services. (So this will stop some people modding their system) (+)

Option 2.
They make some money on micro- transactions and Live. (+)
But absolutely no chance of selling these people any extra hardware/software (-)
You send out a signal that it's ok to mod your system, you may lose Live but hell you can still go online and access all the other services. (so all your potential modders will think hell it's worth it) (-)

Now of course there are lots more things to take into consideration but I fear you'll only just be able to cope with these simple points, so I won’t make it to in-depth. As you can see option 1 (the one MS took) has more plus points than option 2, of course neither is perfect, but you have to make the best of what you have.

[xTONE]

i think u forgot option 3, ban the copied games from working or from working on live. if u think jus cause some1 uses burned games, they arnt gonna buy **** ur crazy. if u think banning from live is gonna stop pirates u are also sadly mistakin. m$ dropped the ball here ill say. wat do u think game devs think about m$ securing their own part of the service but not securing the actual games? if u were a game dev how would u feel about people not being able to play burns on live but still being able to play them. we can all go back and forth on this all day. simple fact remains wat m$ shud have done, didnt get done! now i know many people with firm mods and those people still buy games they like. they also spent many points on live. so yes m$ stands to lose alot more than people think they are gonna. why ban from soemthing where no harm was being done. the harm is in the copied games actually working........... real pirates wont be buying a new console. and real pirates havnt been hurt here. they simply gave people reason to spend $0 now

[cardboardbox]

Could be because I was refering the consoles? Hm...Yep, that's exactly it. You know, this site is called MaxCONSOLE and doesn't have a PC section...so...yeah, point made.
so what you meant to say was "There was a time that Live wasn't around, true internet gaming sucked on consoles before Live." Us PC gamers have been enjoying free online play for over a decade.

[loliix]

So what your saying is regardless of whether you can still play copies or not MS should let you access its sites and take your money. That by banning you they are only losing more money from micro-transactions.

Ok the amount of modded 360 is not as high as you think (the 360 has an attach rate of 5.3, at this stage of a consoles life that’s high which suggests minimal pirating of games)Wouldn't make it that personal, but the general idea is this is an industry, we are here to produce, meat deadlines and achieve profitability goals.

I never said or tried to imply the numbers of modded XBOX360 were in any way representative amongst the console installed base. In fact attach rate measures in a very general way that very same aspect, it's there to be seen that piracy isn't hitting XBOX360 publishers via traditional retail channels.
What I did say is XBL Arcade publishers, the ones who port classics to XBOX360 and do their business in marketplace, aren't really that thrilled to know their target costumer (the "ubber-geeky") is also the one who mist likely belongs to a community of modders and is now unable to purchase their work.

I understand the need to pass a message. In the original XBOX that message was entirely justifiable and was delivered loud and clear.
In XBOX360 things aren't that linear. Microsoft now has a new kind of retail channel that wants to sell to publishers, the digital one via marketplace. I simply don't see fit how making a point within the industry justifies killing a share of costumers that are likely the most avid supporters of Arcade reashes, thus cutting a good chunk of the Arcade publishers income.

Anyhow what is done is done. The path is chosen..

[lee6370]

i think u forgot option 3, ban the copied games from working or from working on live. if u think jus cause some1 uses burned games, they arnt gonna buy **** ur crazy. if u think banning from live is gonna stop pirates u are also sadly mistakin. m$ dropped the ball here ill say. wat do u think game devs think about m$ securing their own part of the service but not securing the actual games? if u were a game dev how would u feel about people not being able to play burns on live but still being able to play them. we can all go back and forth on this all day. simple fact remains wat m$ shud have done, didnt get done! now i know many people with firm mods and those people still buy games they like. they also spent many points on live. so yes m$ stands to lose alot more than people think they are gonna. why ban from soemthing where no harm was being done. the harm is in the copied games actually working........... real pirates wont be buying a new console. and real pirates havnt been hurt here. they simply gave people reason to spend $0 now

Thanks for that didn't realise i'd said that banning people for live would stop pirates, oh hold on i didn't.

The amount of people who have a modded system, that also buy games is few and far between, and if you know someone who has a modded system and also buys lots of games than you know a twat.

Fact remains that MS can't stop pirates so they do the best they can to kick them in the nuts, and thats by stopping them using any of their online services. Has it cost them money of cause it has, do they care? i expect so, but they have still done it and if it was your console and your compnay so would you.

Every criminal that goes to jail costs us money, do we still put the in jail? yes. You have pirated games and modded a system, why shouldn't MS do what they have done, you seem to think that MS care about the money a few hundred thousand pirates may or may not spend online.

Come on get real you don't need a business degree to see they have done the right thing, you can not say just ban the copied games, because MS know you will play them offline, so all they are saying is f off and play your offline copies, but your not using our services.

[lee6370]

Wouldn't make it that personal, but the general idea is this is an industry, we are here to produce, meat deadlines and achieve profitability goals.

I never said or tried to imply the numbers of modded XBOX360 were in any way representative amongst the console installed base. In fact attach rate measures in a very general way that very same aspect, it's there to be seen that piracy isn't hitting XBOX360 publishers via traditional retail channels.
What I did say is XBL Arcade publishers, the ones who port classics to XBOX360 and do their business in marketplace, aren't really that thrilled to know their target costumer (the "ubber-geeky") is also the one who mist likely belongs to a community of modders and is now unable to purchase their work.

I understand the need to pass a message. In the original XBOX that message was entirely justifiable and was delivered loud and clear.
In XBOX360 things aren't that linear. Microsoft now has a new kind of retail channel that wants to sell to publishers, the digital one via marketplace. I simply don't see fit how making a point within the industry justifies killing a share of costumers that are likely the most avid supporters of Arcade reashes, thus cutting a good chunk of the Arcade publishers income.

Anyhow what is done is done. The path is chosen..


You make a good point, but it could also be argued that these 'uber-geeky' users are also the ones most likely to find a way to copy games from the XBL Arcade publishers, the fewer there are of them the lower the risk.

[Knives]

What are the consequences of Microsoft's crackdown?


It will force mod chip companys to get working on a solution, and earn lot's of $$$$.

:D

[Knives]

LEE must work with Xbox Live security or something. :rolleyes:

[cory149]

MS have stolen nothing from you, your account is still active, and you can still access it. Just not from a modded system.

It's like saying you bought a holiday home abroad, and fly there in a stolen plane, but the person who sold you the holiday home takes away the stolen plane, you still own the holiday home and can still go there and use it, you just have to get to it without stealing some transport.
I think it went entirely over your head (like a plane). To use your (yet another bad) analogy; it's like buying a 1 year use of a holiday home starting from today and a plane, and then being told if you ever possibly use a different pilot (even though he is known to lose his hat when flying, and for the purpose of this analogy the hat is essential for the pilot to work) in the plane than the one they sold it to you with, you can not go to the vacation spot you paid for until you buy another plane - but that essentially you will never be compensated for the time it takes to gather the funds to buy another plane.
pilot = drive/drive firmware
plane = 360
pilot's hat = game disk

The only options they offer are:
1- if the pilot loses his hat (disk gets ruined by the console), if you are lucky you can get a replacement for a select few... but in most cases it means buying another $60+ hat.
2- buy a whole 'nother $400 (cdn) plane and hope to hell you get one that doesn't quit mid flight (RROD), and doesn't have the windows permanently opened so the pilot keeps his hat more often.
3- be stolen from, since by their choice your year long holiday home is sitting there rotting and empty. Those who don't have the ability to use 1 or 2, must fall into number 3.

Of course, someone will probably figure out eventually it is just a matter of finding a way to change the serial number on the plane, but that is moot and may well be impossible. Someone else may just offer a free plane ride+vacation home you don't have to rent as well, never know.

Bah, I still need a vacation, pilot and hat - preferably non-M$ ones. :p I don't agree with piracy, but I agree less with punishing *possible* thieves with essentially theft (be it holding a gun to a customers head forcing them to rebuy what they already own, or "buck up" and count the loss of the $$ that is being wasted on an account that cannot be used with their hardware).

[gonepostl]

If I were MS, I would send out a message on Live saying "You have been detected using a mod and have 10 days (or whatever) to restore your Xbox to the factory settings (reflash the original firmware or take out the mod chip) before the console is banned from the network".
After this point I would charge a modest amount to restore any system that has banned, if it were found that the console was wrongly banned then it would be repaired for free/a refund.

Cuz your smarter then M1crosoft

[lee6370]

Bah, I still need a vacation, pilot and hat - preferably non-M$ ones. :p I don't agree with piracy, but I agree less with punishing *possible* thieves with essentially theft (be it holding a gun to a customers head forcing them to rebuy what they already own, or "buck up" and count the loss of the $$ that is being wasted on an account that cannot be used with their hardware).

If my anaolgy was bad, what the hell was that?

Maybe this is still going over my head, tell me what has MS stolen from you?

You still have an active account.
You still have access to that account.
You can still use that account.

All they have done is stop you using a console that has been modded for the purpose of running pirated software.

So i ask you WHAT have they stolen?

[gonepostl]

Seriously, I can't believe peopl are using this as an excuse to sell their consoles. Rofl. There was a time that Live wasn't around, true internet gaming sucked before Live, but even still...games still have offline play for a reason.

Ya, for console players:rolleyes:

[SSChevy2001]

lee6370 - Here's how I see it.

Console Ban / Backup Ban
LIVE -$ / +$ Sell More Account / Movies / Content / Game Add-ons
Hardware -$ / +$ More money for accessories this is where MS makes money
Software -$ / +$ More money for games.
More Hacks - / + Now that consoles are banned more hacking will gone on
Legit people being banned - / + These bans are still not fool proof and some legit people will get banned this is a negative.

All in all I don't see your points. Also what happens if your 360 has problems and it's out of warranty? Do you fix it yourself and save some money or do loss $130 in MS service? You know you can no longer open the consoles cause once the sticker is broken you can never prove to MS you console wasn't modded, even if it was never modded. Honestly Sony did it right with the PS2. Also just so you know I bought another xbox 360, I'll play MS game. I would of rather spent 400 on games and accessories ( chat pad looked really cool or HD-DVD Player ), but now I have 400 less for that. How much you really think MS makes on consoles sales, if any? Now what happens for the people that don't buy another console? Do you really think their going to buy games that won't work on LIVE? Again all your posts were pointless.