wtf is going on [Archive] - MaxConsole Forums

gulliver

05-12-2005, 05:00 PM

Call me crazy but I think the psp is going to go under at some point. Anyone that knows their handheld history will understand what I mean. No souped-up, super expensive handheld has ever survived the hand-held market. Anyone that remembers Turboexpress and Gamegear will remember how powerful and awesome they were. The problem is, they were about $250 - $300 just like the psp. They were great machines but they weren't suited for the handheld market.

Psp is a huge jump ahead in the handheld market as far as technology, but this isn't what the handheld market is all about. Gameboy has done so well all these years because Nintendo understands this. They stay right on the mark as far as increasing the power of their handhelds over time. This is how they are able to sell their handhelds at a reasonable price with reasonably-priced games. They know that the majority of handheld users aren't going to fork out that much for one. I mean, the psp, at $250 for the actual system and $40 - $50!!! for each game, there's no way they're going to make it in the long-term scheme of things. Who wants to pay $50 for a portable game when they can get a game for their home console for the same price. Even a lot of people that really do want a psp won't be able to afford it, or the games anyway.

So, the bottom line is, no matter how great of a library the psp ends up having, it isn't going to be enough to save them. The average handheld user isn't going to spend that much money on a handheld.

I'm getting a DS because I like it a lot better, but even if I wanted to get a psp, I couldn't afford it anyway.

brakken

05-12-2005, 06:53 PM

I would have to disagree as both of the handhelds you mentioned where made by small companies and never had good sales. The PSP has surpassed their combined sales and is made by Sony. Remember everyone thinking the Playstation was a joke? I know 'tons' of 12-18 year olds that think it's the best thing on earth. Personally though I payed for an overpriced Mp3 player :)

AceMilo

05-12-2005, 07:22 PM

I have both a ds and a psp, and the ds looks like garbage compared to the psp. The ds is basically a portable n64 (with all the crappy n64 games being ported) with a touch screen, where as the psp is basically a portable ps2 with tons of development teams behind it. I will most likely use my ds for the exclusives I want like castlevania and zelda, but for multiplats, psp wins hands down. There isn't a hell of a lot you can do with the touch screen, at least the developers don't want to do anything with it besides nintendo. I'm turned off by the new metroid because its so damn hard to play with the stylst as the analog and to move with the d pad is a pain in the ass. There are next to no ds games I'm excitied for, but several psp games I am looking forward to (burnout baby!). Plus, the psp already is online enabled, where as the ds isn't going online until november. The screen is no contest as if you have ever seen a psp in action you know what I'm talking about. The few games I have for both, I find the gameplay on the psp is far superior to the ds right now. I haven't picked up my ds in months, yet I play my psp every day.

gulliver

05-12-2005, 07:29 PM

@ Brakken - Sega was a small company? Are you on crack?

You show me a gaming public that's willing to spend $250 on a portable and $50 for the good, exclusive games and then I'll believe that the psp won't fail.

Also, don't bring up sales, that's not even an issue. You can't compare two completely different video game eras. Video games weren't nearly as popular back then as they are now.

Btw...as far as what you said about people that worship playstation, I think it's sad that there's even such thing as a ps fanboy. Don't get me wrong, I like my ps2, but I mean, come on. Like 75% of the games just flat out suck. The ps2 is a casual gamers system. It's not meant for hardcore gamers. Why do you think it's sold more than Gamecube and Xbox combined? It's not because of it's hardware capabilities or a large, quality game library- lol.

Originally posted by AceMilo
I have both a ds and a psp, and the ds looks like garbage compared to the psp. The ds is basically a portable n64 (with all the crappy n64 games being ported) with a touch screen, where as the psp is basically a portable ps2 with tons of development teams behind it. I will most likely use my ds for the exclusives I want like castlevania and zelda, but for multiplats, psp wins hands down. There isn't a hell of a lot you can do with the touch screen, at least the developers don't want to do anything with it besides nintendo. I'm turned off by the new metroid because its so damn hard to play with the stylst as the analog and to move with the d pad is a pain in the ass. There are next to no ds games I'm excitied for, but several psp games I am looking forward to (burnout baby!). Plus, the psp already is online enabled, where as the ds isn't going online until november. The screen is no contest as if you have ever seen a psp in action you know what I'm talking about. The few games I have for both, I find the gameplay on the psp is far superior to the ds right now. I haven't picked up my ds in months, yet I play my psp every day.

You basically just reinforced my point. Of course the psp is more powerful. It's power is what will be it's failure.

DeVS

05-12-2005, 08:15 PM

$250 to $300 for the Turboexpress and Gamegear would be like paying $350 to $400 today. The markets changed and the PsP isn't gonna go the way of the Turboexpress and Gamegear. The whole industry has changed, games have gotton bigger then the movie and music industry now days. Ohh and the GameGear LOOKED great for the entire 20mins you could play it before it drained all the batteries. That with it's price tag back then is why it died.

cubenoob

05-12-2005, 09:48 PM

@ brakken: And you call NEC a small company. You must be on crack. :D

Well NEC is a half-conductor giant but was very successful with its PCEngine in Japan and TG-16 in USA. Only the turbo express was kinda like the game gear.

@ all:

When the ps2 came out it costed about 450 €. And I saw everyone running around with one under his / hers arms. LOL But this hype only lasted about half a year. And then sales went down and Sony came with a price drop after another half-year. So the console was about 250 €. And I think this is gonna happen with the PSP after the big hype is over. And I can imagine that it will compete with the DS with the price. And until then the games for the PSP will be about 3 times the amount of the DS. I dont understand whats wrong with Nintendo lately they dont bring out any new games. I dont mean just Nintendo but games for Nintendo consoles. When I open a game magazine I see 25 more titles for the ps2 and 20 more for xbox and I found 3 new games for GameCube this month. And I can remember when the GBA was out for the time the DS is now it had about 200 games and has now over 2000.

gulliver

05-13-2005, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by DeVS
$250 to $300 for the Turboexpress and Gamegear would be like paying $350 to $400 today. The markets changed and the PsP isn't gonna go the way of the Turboexpress and Gamegear. The whole industry has changed, games have gotton bigger then the movie and music industry now days. Ohh and the GameGear LOOKED great for the entire 20mins you could play it before it drained all the batteries. That with it's price tag back then is why it died.

The psp has the high pricetag and drains the battery fast as well. So if that's what made gamegear died, what would stop it from making psp die?

I'm sorry, but you can talk about inflation all you want. The simple truth is that no games for a portable have ever been just as expensive or more expensive than the home consoles. If they drop the prices of games then they'll have a chance. But I don't know why anyone would expect the price of the games to drop. Sure, ps2's were going for a lot when it first came out, but the games were $50 then, and they're $50 now. I don't see that changing on the psp either.

DeVS

05-13-2005, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by gulliver

I'm sorry, but you can talk about inflation all you want. The simple truth is that no games for a portable have ever been just as expensive or more expensive than the home consoles.

And no handheld has ever had the graphics comparable to the home console either. The PsP doesnt even come close to draining the batteries like GameGear did. Granted if you watch DvD movies on it it drains the batteries faster, but for playing games the battery life is just fine and for listneing to music it is damn good. You really cant compare todays markets to the mid 90's. How many people had cell phones back then? None to hardly any and now look. Tech has changed and peoples ideas what there willing to pay for tech has changed. The PsP wont be going down and if Nintendo isn't careful there gonna go the way of Sega and be a software company. Pokemon and the Gameboy has been whats keeping Nintendow where they could even make hardware, cut into there bread and butter the Gameboy hard enough then there only prayer would be a truely "Revolutional" home console,lmfao. Gonna be hard to get much more of the console market then they already have if they cant shake the whole "kiddie" console tag everyone has given them since the N64.

whackawookie

05-13-2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by DeVS
And no handheld has ever had the graphics comparable to the home console either.

everything u said has been on point except that statement. there was one portable that did and i still own it. the turboexpress played home turbografx 16 games so that made the exact same graphics. god i loved that thing.

gulliver

05-13-2005, 01:28 PM

Well, I was going to post links for all these sales figures and blah blah blah and while I'm copying and pasting links, I'm thinking to myself "why am I doing this? what's the point?" and I came to the conclusion that there is no point. The fact of the matter is, you can call nintendo "kiddie" and you can call xbox "adult" but it doesn't really mean anything and neither of those statements are accurate anyway.

Gamecube and Xbox are systems for hardcore gamers and PS2 is for the masses (and no there isn't any bias in this because I do like PS2 and I hate Xbox). Sony will probably always have the most sales with their home consoles because so many of their games appeal to casual gamers and most of their market share is the casual gamers. Hardcore FPS lovers are going to play Xbox and people that love all the classic games (mario, zelda, metroid, donkey kong, etc.) are going to play Gamecube.

The numbers speak for themselves as well. PS2 sales blow Gamecube and Xbox out of the water, but if it was only hardcore video gamers buying consoles, then Gamecube and Xbox would be the ones on top. And to devs, if you believe that Nintendo is going to go under then you have to admit that xbox will as well because worldwide, gamecube and xbox sales are identical with gamecube ahead by a slight margin.

Anyway, enough with my rant. People are going to buy DS for innovation, reasonable prices with hardware and software and for the franchise games. People are going to buy PSP so they can basically play their PS2 on the go; they're going to have to have very deep pockets as well.

Lol - the only thing I wanna respond to is the battery life question. I hardly think that 2 - 3 hours of battery life on average while playing games other than puzzle games is good. And the DS has a battery life of about 10 - 12 hours. So I'm not really sure how you can argue about that.

fin.

DeVS

05-13-2005, 01:36 PM

What?? 10 to 12 hours? Do you even own a DS? Try more like 4 hours for the DS. The Ps2 sold so many more units then the XboX or GC because it had a full year of no real competition to sell it. A years head start is a pretty damn long time. If all 3 consolse launched at the same time, I think you would see the sales number to be alot diffrent. IMHO I love the GameCube the most. The quality of exclusive games cant be beat.

gulliver

05-13-2005, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by DeVS
What?? 10 to 12 hours? Do you even own a DS? Try more like 4 hours for the DS. The Ps2 sold so many more units then the XboX or GC because it had a full year of no real competition to sell it. A years head start is a pretty damn long time. If all 3 consolse launched at the same time, I think you would see the sales number to be alot diffrent. IMHO I love the GameCube the most. The quality of exclusive games cant be beat.

I was just going by what I read. I didn't see anywhere that it was even close to 4 hours. I think the lowest I saw was about 6 hours. Either way, I've seen replacement ds batteries selling for like $7, so I think it would be well worth it get an extra one.

I like gamecube the best too. But you have to admit that there are way a lot of people that don't care about video games much and just buy a ps2 because it's popular. That's where the majority of their sales come from. That, and all the 12 y/o "adults" (lol) that are obsessed with GTA.

DeVS

05-13-2005, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by gulliver
But you have to admit that there are way a lot of people that don't care about video games much and just buy a ps2 because it's popular. That's where the majority of their sales come from.

Totaly agree. that goes along with what I was saying about people who call the GameCube a kiddie system, have these people even played the damn Cube. Sure Mario wont blow the head off a hooker, but **** is just all gimmick. The real GAMEPLAY is what makes the Cube rock so hard.

AceMilo

05-13-2005, 03:35 PM

My DS lasts about 8 hours while my psp lasts about 3.5. Sony says they are gonna have a replacement battery, but thats down the line and plus I'd have to pay for it, which blows, but whatever.

I really don't think we need to start another xbox vs ps2 vs gc debate, its been done to death. What I play most has recently been gc only because I just got/modded it in the last couple months. The xbox is my favorite system, but then again I use it more for xbmc than for games, but most of the games own ps2 and gc. I enjoy the gameplay on the gc on the exclusives, but multiplats xbox has everything beat hands down. I never liked ps2, but I do love my psp.

gulliver

05-13-2005, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by DeVS
Totaly agree. that goes along with what I was saying about people who call the GameCube a kiddie system, have these people even played the damn Cube. Sure Mario wont blow the head off a hooker, but **** is just all gimmick. The real GAMEPLAY is what makes the Cube rock so hard.

I agree, the whole "nintendo is for the kids" is so stupid. You have to be way more intelligent to play Gamecube games than you do with most of the crap on PS2. Of course it's fun to run around and blow up hookers and whatnot, but it's not challenging or engaging. I just play GTA for shits and giggles. Gimme wind waker and paper mario for a real gaming experience.

I think one of the best things about Gamecube is that they don't have many FPS. That's what I hate about X-box and PS2. Pretty much all the games they have, expecially xbox, are FPS. For those that like them, great, but I personally can't stand them.

On a side note, I hope the Revolution really has 4 2.5GHZ processors like the rumors that've been going around. Imagine the emulator capabilities :drooling:

soccerboi

05-13-2005, 06:10 PM

@ gulliver: Only one 2.5 ghz processor, but it will be an apple one so it will be comparable to a 3 ghz processor. With that kind of power, who knows what it will emulate!

It could emulate the PSX, n64, SNES, GEN, NES,GBA, PSP (maybe), sega saturn, dreamcast, and probably even more! I mean right now, there is a full speed dreamcast emulator that runs full speed on a 2 GHZ proccessor. I mean port that, and that would be awesome!

DeVS

05-13-2005, 07:11 PM

Well this is supposed to be the leaked vdeio of the Nintendo Revolution that is to be shown at next weeks E3. Wiered as **** if this is real:

http://onefed.com/media/NintendoON.wmv

gulliver

05-13-2005, 08:36 PM

Huh, I coulda swore I read that it was gonna have 4. Oh well.

Z80

05-14-2005, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by soccerboi
@ gulliver: Only one 2.5 ghz processor, but it will be an apple one so it will be comparable to a 3 ghz processor. With that kind of power, who knows what it will emulate!

It could emulate the PSX, n64, SNES, GEN, NES,GBA, PSP (maybe), sega saturn, dreamcast, and probably even more! I mean right now, there is a full speed dreamcast emulator that runs full speed on a 2 GHZ proccessor. I mean port that, and that would be awesome!

Results of emulation are highly variable depending on the emulator you must realize. Emulation can be done at the right angle to get very high speed at the sacrifice of accuracy or be pretty slow for the sake of accuracy. Also remember when emulators are incomplete they run faster as they effectively do less. And Chankast is certainly far from complete.

Anyways... I think the main thing making PSP unappealing is PRICE. I'd never pay that much for a portable system, and probably not that much for a console system.

gulliver

05-14-2005, 03:47 AM

Originally posted by DeVS
Well this is supposed to be the leaked vdeio of the Nintendo Revolution that is to be shown at next weeks E3. Wiered as **** if this is real:

http://onefed.com/media/NintendoON.wmv

Holy ****! If this is real then Nintendo has finally completely lost their minds. It looks like it's going to scan your brain and make a game out of what you're thinking - lol

whackawookie

05-14-2005, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by soccerboi
@ gulliver: Only one 2.5 ghz processor, but it will be an apple one so it will be comparable to a 3 ghz processor. With that kind of power, who knows what it will emulate!

It could emulate the PSX, n64, SNES, GEN, NES,GBA, PSP (maybe), sega saturn, dreamcast, and probably even more! I mean right now, there is a full speed dreamcast emulator that runs full speed on a 2 GHZ proccessor. I mean port that, and that would be awesome!

i honestly dont know what dreamcast emulator ur talking about because last i heard of that scene they were still running like crap with very few games at that. besides, processing power doesnt manipulate a systems emulating power. the ps2 and xbox both are much more powerful then dreamcast and still dont emulate it. and the dreamcast was more powerful then psx and the only psx emulated were on bleemcast and that was only 2 games. its all in the ability of the coder and what there able to do.

soccerboi

05-14-2005, 09:22 AM

i honestly dont know what dreamcast emulator ur talking about because last i heard of that scene they were still running like crap with very few games at that.

Chankast can run many games at full speed with very few errors. Check out the official site.

besides, processing power doesnt manipulate a systems emulating power. the ps2 and xbox both are much more powerful then dreamcast and still dont emulate it.

A little reminder here: 2.5 GHZ G5 processor does not compare to a 700 mhz celeron one that the X-Box has and the dinky processor that the PS2 has isn't even close.

and the dreamcast was more powerful then psx and the only psx emulated were on bleemcast and that was only 2 games. its all in the ability of the coder and what there able to do.

Your right about it being the ability of what the coder can do, but bleemcast can run more than two games. If you download a hacked version that lets you play other PS games, many of them will boot and others will work perfectly. This was a commercial emulator, so they only sold it for the two games that they thought would make it sell the best.

soccerboi

05-14-2005, 09:27 AM

holy **** gulliver, you heard right! It did say four processors. How the hell are they going to pull that off at a reasonable price though? Maybe the site heard wrong or something.

whackawookie

05-14-2005, 10:03 AM

damn ive been out of the emulating scene too long. ill have to get back into it now.

gulliver

05-14-2005, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by soccerboi
holy **** gulliver, you heard right! It did say four processors. How the hell are they going to pull that off at a reasonable price though? Maybe the site heard wrong or something.

I knew I wasn't crazy:) Was site did you see that on? I can't remember where it was.

NM...it's all over the place

high-as-a-kite

05-14-2005, 12:23 PM

holy crap, my thread has devolved, o well. Damn that video was sweet... It better be real, xbox 360 AND ps3 would be completely owned... I would still buy it even if it cost around $500 as long as the games were modest... that was cool...
anyway, about the psp and stuff, I personally would love to have a psp, just not for the games. The games look good but so far I haven't seen anything that made me want to sell crack to get that $300. But the psp has pretty good hackability, and that's cool. But it's too expensive for a handheld. If people much smarter than myself came out with emulators for the DS (like psx and n64) i would be happy. Actually all I want is a DS flash cart... lol dream on I know
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!! :cool:

gulliver

05-14-2005, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by high-as-a-kite
holy crap, my thread has devolved, o well. Damn that video was sweet... It better be real, xbox 360 AND ps3 would be completely owned... I would still buy it even if it cost around $500 as long as the games were modest... that was cool...
anyway, about the psp and stuff, I personally would love to have a psp, just not for the games. The games look good but so far I haven't seen anything that made me want to sell crack to get that $300. But the psp has pretty good hackability, and that's cool. But it's too expensive for a handheld. If people much smarter than myself came out with emulators for the DS (like psx and n64) i would be happy. Actually all I want is a DS flash cart... lol dream on I know
VIVA LA REVOLUTION!! :cool:

Lol, I know, that video is crazy. Just the fact that it has a record button on it is enough to keep me wondering for a long time just exactly what it will do.

Yeah, hacking the psp would be cool, but as you said, it's definitely not worth the pricetag. I think the one thing that bothers me about it just as much as the price is where the analog control is located on it. Looks like you'd be getting a lot of cramps in your hand trying to use it - lol

I can't wait for DS flash carts either. It shouldn't be too long before they make them or something similar is released to allow the passme to play commercial roms.