Xbox 360 Elite not so Elite?

[Timboo]

With the Xbox 360 Elite due for release in the USA at the end of this month, here are eight reasons why this latest incarnation of the Xbox 360 is anything but elite.

1. Three 360s is one too many. Currently there are two Xbox 360 models available, and that's already a stretch. Yeah, it's about choice, but it's also about reducing confusion when presenting a prospective buyer with a product. Having three SKUs available to consumers makes it seem like Microsoft doesn't know what it wants to be. Hardcore gamers (like many of you reading this) are sure to do their due diligence when deciding on a game system, but keep in mind that hardcore gamers are the minority. Most gamers purchase a platform with very little research other than selecting which system supports the game(s) they want play.

2. It's still cheaper than the PS3. Cheap is a good thing. But for something to be considered "Elite," in theory it should probably also be the most expensive product on the market. Try as Microsoft may, when looking at price alone, PS3 still has the "elite" advantage when viewed by the affluent upper-class, the same class the $479 Elite is aimed at. Sure, the $499 PS3 just died and $299-399 Xbox 360 models will still prevail, but Microsoft's price advantage over the PS3 just got a whole lot smaller.

3. No wireless networking. C'mon. This is just inexcusable. Even the DS with its 12 year-old computing technology supports wifi. There's no excuse for what's being dubbed as "elite" not to include this inexpensive, widely used networking standard. Microsoft can pimp "choice" all they want on this one, but who doesn't want wi-fi? Sample: "No, I don't ever want wireless networking, so don't make me pay the $10 wholesale price of adding it." Preposterous.

4. The current 10 million 360 owners are getting the shaft. Microsoft says the Elite isn't aimed at existing customers but for niche HD enthusiasts who still don't own an Xbox 360. Fair enough, but didn't Microsoft just get done telling existing 360 owners that bigger hard drives and HDMI video were unnecessary? Why the sudden shift in philosophy? Even new Elite owners may be getting the shaft as Microsoft will continue to optimize all Xbox Live Marketplace content for the 20GB hard drives, possibly making the Elite's 120GB drive a moot point. And by further segmenting the Xbox 360 platform, no one version benefits as game developers must consider each when developing games and testing hardware. The largest common denominator typically wins.

5. It will still be really loud. By not including a more efficient, cooler-running 65 nanometer processor, we assume the Elite will continue to pump out an irritating racket when turned on, primarily due to its noisy cooling fan. Usually, loud-running consumer electronics are more akin to discount products, not the high-class "elite" as the name implies. This will totally ruin our experience while we drink Cristal and listen to Vivaldi (yes, we're audio snobs).

6. No HD-DVD bundle. Is the Elite trying to be a multimedia device or not? Not including an HD-DVD drive just feels underdeveloped, and something Microsoft could have used to juice up excitement for the Elite. Of course, we can't help but suspect that the increasing popularity of Blu-ray had something to do with the decision to exclude HD-DVD this time around. Furthermore, the add-on drive will not be released in black for Elite owners still wanting HD-DVD support. That'll look real classy on your entertainment center; the black-and-white cookie look is so in this year.

7. Someone tell Microsoft that white is the "new black." Sure, Microsoft needs to differentiate from ghostly white Wiis and pastel-colored Apple products, but white -- not black -- is where the good stuff is right now in consumer electronics. Microsoft wisely went with white the first time around, so why the change without letting Elite owners decide on a color? And don't even try to sell a monochrome variation at a premium. Since when did I have to pay more for a black car?

8. The machine isn't intended for gamers. Ultimately, the Elite has nothing to do with enhancing the gameplay experience; it's for multimedia whores. HDMI, a larger hard drive, new movies and TV content? Great. Remind me why the gamer in me cares? How will the Elite improve my games? From a game saving and demo download standpoint, a 20 GB hard drive is more than enough (hint: you were right the first time, Microsoft). After all, despite whom Elite is being pitched to, gamers are the ones really buying the product.

The article concludes by saying that the best thing about Microsoft's new Xbox 360 is its price.
At $480, it's just $20 shy of the once-available, now-defunct 20GB PS3. Shedding the contrarian in me, the extra hard drive space and bundled HDMI support (including cable) is nice from a non-gamer standpoint. DVD upscaling is appreciated too. But as a gamer, it's hard to get excited about the Elite. And this isn't to say it won't sell; we just wish it was selling "more" to gamers.

What do you think?

News Source:<a href="http://www.gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/features/109355.shtml" target="_blank">gamepro.com</a>

[gonepostl]

2. It's still cheaper than the PS3. Cheap is a good thing. But for something to be considered "Elite," in theory it should probably also be the most expensive product on the market. Try as Microsoft may, when looking at price alone, PS3 still has the "elite" advantage when viewed by the affluent upper-class, the same class the $479 Elite is aimed at. Sure, the $499 PS3 just died and $299-399 Xbox 360 models will still prevail, but Microsoft's price advantage over the PS3 just got a whole lot smaller.
Say it!!!!
3. No wireless networking. C'mon. This is just inexcusable. Even the DS with its 12 year-old computing technology supports wifi. There's no excuse for what's being dubbed as "elite" not to include this inexpensive, widely used networking standard. Microsoft can pimp "choice" all they want on this one, but who doesn't want wi-fi? Sample: "No, I don't ever want wireless networking, so don't make me pay the $10 wholesale price of adding it." Preposterous.
Here's your "option"
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wireless-Network-Adapter/dp/B000B6MLV4
4. The current 10 million 360 owners are getting the shaft. Microsoft says the Elite isn't aimed at existing customers but for niche HD enthusiasts who still don't own an Xbox 360. Fair enough, but didn't Microsoft just get done telling existing 360 owners that bigger hard drives and HDMI video were unnecessary? Why the sudden shift in philosophy? Even new Elite owners may be getting the shaft as Microsoft will continue to optimize all Xbox Live Marketplace content for the 20GB hard drives, possibly making the Elite's 120GB drive a moot point. And by further segmenting the Xbox 360 platform, no one version benefits as game developers must consider each when developing games and testing hardware. The largest common denominator typically wins.
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3227/b00000inr201sclzzzzzzzaba7.jpg
5. It will still be really loud. By not including a more efficient, cooler-running 65 nanometer processor, we assume the Elite will continue to pump out an irritating racket when turned on, primarily due to its noisy cooling fan. Usually, loud-running consumer electronics are more akin to discount products, not the high-class "elite" as the name implies. This will totally ruin our experience while we drink Cristal and listen to Vivaldi (yes, we're audio snobs).
Meh I can live with it. Not to mention that they are actually going to put Lite-on in as the new drive which is like the best move they could have possibly made!
6. No HD-DVD bundle. Is the Elite trying to be a multimedia device or not? Not including an HD-DVD drive just feels underdeveloped, and something Microsoft could have used to juice up excitement for the Elite. Of course, we can't help but suspect that the increasing popularity of Blu-ray had something to do with the decision to exclude HD-DVD this time around. Furthermore, the add-on drive will not be released in black for Elite owners still wanting HD-DVD support. That'll look real classy on your entertainment center; the black-and-white cookie look is so in this year.

Ok well 200 dollar drive + 479 dollar system = 1080p. Wtf?

7. Someone tell Microsoft that white is the "new black." Sure, Microsoft needs to differentiate from ghostly white Wiis and pastel-colored Apple products, but white -- not black -- is where the good stuff is right now in consumer electronics. Microsoft wisely went with white the first time around, so why the change without letting Elite owners decide on a color? And don't even try to sell a monochrome variation at a premium. Since when did I have to pay more for a black car?
It's a gaming system. Don't really care if it goes with my curtains
8. The machine isn't intended for gamers. Ultimately, the Elite has nothing to do with enhancing the gameplay experience; it's for multimedia whores. HDMI, a larger hard drive, new movies and TV content? Great. Remind me why the gamer in me cares? How will the Elite improve my games? From a game saving and demo download standpoint, a 20 GB hard drive is more than enough (hint: you were right the first time, Microsoft). After all, despite whom Elite is being pitched to, gamers are the ones really buying the product.
There's nothing wrong with turning it into a multimedia center.
What is wrong is when you bash Sony for being more then a video game system and send beer and boats down a fukin river screaming Microsoft loves you. Then approximately a week later announce the price of this atrocity.

[Sharpy]

I thought the elites coming out this month were going to have the cooler-running 65 nanometer processor? They are not? So if not now then when.

[Dpa]

Here's your "option"
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wirel.../dp/B000B6MLV4

yes, YES, thats what i love to do as a gamer, spend $480 on a console then another $90 on a wireless adapter when MS could have just thrown wifi on and added $20 to the price. Or maybe il just take some leaves off my money tree and skip down to the nearest store and buy 20 meters of ethernet cable, then put up with cables running through my house. Ah MS, i love you so!

[Al3xand3r]

Wow, a system has to be the most expensive out there to be elite. GamePro logic at its best. As well as the part about HD-DVD. Obviously Microsoft excluded it because Blu-Ray is winning. Brilliant! It's nothing to do with the fact it's an unecessary accessory that has nothing to do with the gaming experience. No no no!

[kcvfr400]

Well due to the stupid lack of wifi my 360 is the console that goes online least due to having to run a cable from my 360 to my router which is not permanent due to how ugly it would look running arounfd the room. So all the talk of xbox live being superior should take into consideration this problem as my wii and ps3 are far easier to use online as there is no extra costs or wiring work involved.

[LeGioN1202]

I still find it pointless that they added HDMI without an added HD-DVD drive. DVD can only upscale to 1080i, thus making the HDMI basically useless unless you shell out the extra $200 to make it worth your while, although this of course brings the price tag to $680 before taxes... not so elite if you ask me.

I knew the 360 had the optional Wi-Fi adapter, which to be honest... i thought it was nice that 360 gave you the option instead of tagging it on and forcing you to pay for it... but now seeing that the price is just below $100, why the hell do people even try to complain about PS3 prices when the 360 Wi-Fi adapter is 1/5th the price of the entire PS3 console?

These should have been added from the start, because if I were to use the "Elite" for what it is aimed at, it would cost me $800+ easily... which is actually way too pricey, even for me.

One thing has been bothering me for a while now too. What is the main reason for the increased HDD space? Has MS realized that some of their future titles may require larger portions of their games to be installed to an HDD?

I would certainly hope not, this would cause Core and Premium users to be "forced", yes "Forced" to shell out an additional $180 on the 120GB HDD, making Premium = $580 and Core = $480...

Price is no longer a valid argument IMO. Unofficially, I would say XBox360 just passed up the PS3 in terms of cost, of course if games do eventually require you to purchase the ridiculously priced HDD.

Wow, a system has to be the most expensive out there to be elite. GamePro logic at its best. As well as the part about HD-DVD. Obviously Microsoft excluded it because Blu-Ray is winning. Brilliant! It's nothing to do with the fact it's an unecessary accessory that has nothing to do with the gaming experience. No no no!

Yes, but what the hell is the sense of HDMI and an added cable when normal DVD can only upscale to 1080i? Without a built in HD-DVD drive the only thing you will ever require is component cables. Buying Elite is pointless if you don't plan on buying an HD-DVD drive.

If you do buy it and the HD-DVD add-on, then well, MS just shafted your sorry ass for $700+ easy after taxes, throw in the Wi-Fi adapter and you just hit $800+, to do less than the PS3, which if I am not mistaken, MS bashed them on pricing.

[Scorpion3]

Great, another thread in the 360 forum for all the PS3 fanboys to congregate and preach how the 360 is ****. Yet, when there's a negative PS3 thread in the PS3 section..."MC is totally biased against the PS3 and Wii." lmao

[Al3xand3r]

wow your dumb look at the ipod most people get the 80 gig which is more expensive than the zune or any other MP3No, I think you're dumb, if you honestly believe its higher price is what makes people purchase it and they would prefer something else if the ipod offered what it offers now but was instead sold cheaper than the Zune or other players...

Legion, I thought they released some update that enabled 1080p display recently. Wasn't there some outrage over it not working on some Sony TVs?

[msa]

the color-argument is bullshit and shouldnt be in the main-article, but a personal comment from the author. i personally like the black one much more, but it has damn nothing to do with all the other points at all.

[sigma8]

My only complaint about the Xbox 360 elite--and technically, this remains to be seen--is that it may be noisy. I don't want to spend all that cash and get a leafblower.

With the new backwards compatibility stuff announced, I'm really tempted to buy now, and just ditch my old Xbox (too much dust on it, but I still need to beat Panzer Dragoon Orta and Ninja Gaiden)...but I don't want to spend nearly $500 on what seems (sounds) like a Kmart special.

[RuneEdge]

Cant people just enjoy what they have and stop moaning about what they cant afford?

[sigma8]

I don't think people are complaining about the price, so much as they are complaining it's not ELITE enough. Heck, raise the price...but make it nicer. Actually resolve the complaints that people HAD, like the noise...rather than address ones not many people did have (lack of HDMI).

[lobo32332]

I love how "hardcore" gamers are clamoring for wifi support....real gamers know wifi is a ***** when it comes to online gaming.

[loliix]

From my personal experience with a number of XBOX360's, anyone who says the 360 is loud because of the "noisy fans" deserves zero credibility..

The fans are moderately quite, but what makes that noticeable and awful noise (yes, in idle) is the DVD drive (notably early Hitachi/LG). When you never actually tried out a 360 is easy to assume the fans are to blame, particularly given the historical tendency to overheat..
Owners with a Samsung drive can make a trade off with the hacked firmware, quietness or speed. New BenQ drives provide the best of both worlds without any compromise for speed, being the console (in idle) just as quite as PS3.

The 65nm CPU die is a must to stop the overheating wave, but I am sorry to inform you that isn't what's going to make the 360 quite.. If only Microsoft didn't save on drives and shipped every console with a BenQ.

[tommasi]

ya i saw the price for it today $549.99 canadian at futureshop

useless unless they fix the red lights problem

[Silversand]

I thought the elites coming out this month were going to have the cooler-running 65 nanometer processor? They are not? So if not now then when.I'm also wondering if this is true or not. This article was the first time I heard that the elite wasn't going to be build using 65. I was waiting for the elite for that reason.

[sigma8]

I love how "hardcore" gamers are clamoring for wifi support....real gamers know wifi is a ***** when it comes to online gaming.
Um. Do you have any proof of this?

I'm going to do some tests at home, but I'm nearly positive the difference will only be a couple milliseconds..and I know how leet you THINK you are, but those milliseconds won't make a difference.

This isn't the same as the 30 vs 60 frames per second debate. 60 frames per second is 1 frame every 17 milliseconds. Would you gain such a huge benefit between 60 fps and 61 fps?

There are many other factors that impact your latency in bigger ways than wi-fi.

[gonepostl]

Great, another thread in the 360 forum for all the PS3 fanboys to congregate and preach how the 360 is ****. Yet, when there's a negative PS3 thread in the PS3 section..."MC is totally biased against the PS3 and Wii." lmao
Says the 360 fanboy. Btw let's look at a Fanbody comment. Notice how it doesn't contribute to anything and just flagrantly attacks people with no supporting evidence. Now notice somebody who actually gives a **** and knows what they are saying.
I still find it pointless that they added HDMI without an added HD-DVD drive. DVD can only upscale to 1080i, thus making the HDMI basically useless unless you shell out the extra $200 to make it worth your while, although this of course brings the price tag to $680 before taxes... not so elite if you ask me.

I knew the 360 had the optional Wi-Fi adapter, which to be honest... i thought it was nice that 360 gave you the option instead of tagging it on and forcing you to pay for it... but now seeing that the price is just below $100, why the hell do people even try to complain about PS3 prices when the 360 Wi-Fi adapter is 1/5th the price of the entire PS3 console?

These should have been added from the start, because if I were to use the "Elite" for what it is aimed at, it would cost me $800+ easily... which is actually way too pricey, even for me.

One thing has been bothering me for a while now too. What is the main reason for the increased HDD space? Has MS realized that some of their future titles may require larger portions of their games to be installed to an HDD?

I would certainly hope not, this would cause Core and Premium users to be "forced", yes "Forced" to shell out an additional $180 on the 120GB HDD, making Premium = $580 and Core = $480...

Price is no longer a valid argument IMO. Unofficially, I would say XBox360 just passed up the PS3 in terms of cost, of course if games do eventually require you to purchase the ridiculously priced HDD.



Yes, but what the hell is the sense of HDMI and an added cable when normal DVD can only upscale to 1080i? Without a built in HD-DVD drive the only thing you will ever require is component cables. Buying Elite is pointless if you don't plan on buying an HD-DVD drive.

If you do buy it and the HD-DVD add-on, then well, MS just shafted your sorry ass for $700+ easy after taxes, throw in the Wi-Fi adapter and you just hit $800+, to do less than the PS3, which if I am not mistaken, MS bashed them on pricing.
Get it?

[laesperanzapaz]

Great, another thread in the 360 forum for all the PS3 fanboys to congregate and preach how the 360 is ****. Yet, when there's a negative PS3 thread in the PS3 section..."MC is totally biased against the PS3 and Wii." lmao

i've read posts in MC complaing MC is biased against the ps3, or the wii, or 360. In other words: MC is not any more biased than joystiq, kotaku, etc etc.

Check other sites before BS-ing us about 'bias' crappola. so embarassing....

[gonepostl]

i've read posts in MC complaing MC is biased against the ps3, or the wii, or 360. In other words: MC is not any more biased than joystiq, kotaku, etc etc.

Check other sites before BS-ing us about 'bias' crappola. so embarassing....
Wow stole the words out of my mouth. I've been called a Ps3 fanboy. My ps2 is sitting in my shed out back and I'm damn sure not gonna buy it until they grab themself a shovel and pull their head out of their ass and drop the damn price. Am I Sony sided?

No, In my comments I actually gave props to one thing that Microsoft did right on this thread. If they do it right I'll give them a pat on the back for it but they are taking the hugest sh1t all over all of us and I call them on that. That's what gamers do, they fight.

Legion, I thought they released some update that enabled 1080p display recently. Wasn't there some outrage over it not working on some Sony TVs?
I think this argument kinda sh1ts on what we've been saying. Isn't the elite a limited edition last time I checked? Hasn't there already been a patch to enable 1080p through vga? Is this a great alternative hell no. If my two questions are yes then this is not being shoved down our throat.......well except for the hard drive which will cost you 200 bucks.....wait.......................nevermind:p
Cant people just enjoy what they have and stop moaning about what they cant afford?
I'm 21 (22 on the 29th) and own my own business and have 9 people working under me. Wonder why I'm on here all the time? Hell no I won't buy it! Wait scratch what I just said.

*fuk off n00b
I love how "hardcore" gamers are clamoring for wifi support....real gamers know wifi is a ***** when it comes to online gaming.
He's right...but cmon I think your lookin at it the wrong way. I'm gonna b1tch out and compare it to the wii so please don't call me a fanboy cause I get that enough. The wii comes with wpa v2 and it works very well but where's the ethernet port? You can't compare the 360 to the wii because they took the very same approach in this manor. The Ps3 is your best choice for argument because they give you both and not offer some bullsh1t wireless bridge for 100 bux.

Not to mention the bridge is a terrible peice of equipement. Running dd-wrt with xmit to 150 and I got a "fair" signal from 20 feet away. Wtf! Add that in with Live forcing you to host your own games is why halo lags like a biznatch, fact!

[pCeSlAyEr]

OK! here's question for all you who think you know something about the 360's issues.

What is the big deal about the cpu going 65nm? last I checked the GPU was the culprit. The GPU being to damn close to and therefore overheating the ram.

Now obviously the elites mainboard is a revision of the the original so who's to say they didnt fix the problem I stated above?

[gonepostl]

OK! here's question for all you who think you know something about the 360's issues.

What is the big deal about the cpu going 65nm? last I checked the GPU was the culprit. The GPU being to damn close to and therefore overheating the ram.

Now obviously the elites mainboard is a revision of the the original so who's to say they didnt fix the problem I stated above?
I didn't know they revised the motherboard! You got pics by chance? To show the gpu has been put in a different spot?!
Um. Do you have any proof of this?


I'm going to do some tests at home, but I'm nearly positive the difference will only be a couple milliseconds..and I know how leet you THINK you are, but those milliseconds won't make a difference.

This isn't the same as the 30 vs 60 frames per second debate. 60 frames per second is 1 frame every 17 milliseconds. Would you gain such a huge benefit between 60 fps and 61 fps?

There are many other factors that impact your latency in bigger ways than wi-fi.
Unless of course if your running a dd-wrt compatible router with xmit pumped up you probably have no idea how to game properly. Yes you should be wired because you run into whats called packet loss. Your talkin about frame rates when we are talkin about latency. I'm silently dying reading your post.

If you like computers maybe you should realize that the 802.11 protocol was never ready and we're still waiting for 802.11(n)? in 2008 that will make all these problems go away.


Here's some points of reference.
http://vgstrategies.about.com/od/faq/a/gamesnetworking.htm

[MadonnaProject]

Yepp!!!! the foot in hatchet has already started for microsoft.

[pCeSlAyEr]

I didn't know they revised the motherboard! You got pics by chance? To show the gpu has been put in a different spot?!

No all I know is its a revision... im personally waiting for someone to open it and start snapping away.

if its a minor change like not moving the damn ram... well then MS missed an opportune chance to fix one of the consoles only flaws(pretty major one at that).

[gonepostl]

No all I know is its a revision... im personally waiting for someone to open it and start snapping away.

if its a minor change like not moving the damn ram... well then MS missed an opportune chance to fix one of the consoles only flaws(pretty major one at that).
Well said dude. I may sound like a Microsoft hater but I would really like them to flourish. If they drop the prices on the premiums, fix the heating problems I'll see you on live. The wii has no great lineup and Sony won't pull their head out of their ass. Until then I've got a Pc that I'd prefer over these consoles any day of the week and five 1.6 xbox's that I love using every day.

[So-Unreal]

I love how "hardcore" gamers are clamoring for wifi support....real gamers know wifi is a ***** when it comes to online gaming.
Thank you!

[pCeSlAyEr]

as for people claiming WiFi is just as good as a some RJ45, don't kid yourself.

try hosting a 16 player non ranked match in GRAW or GRAW2 with WiFi and see how long till you get dropped.

[satel]

it will be funny when people start selling elite 360's on ebay with 3 red lights of death for $50. there you go a $500 Elite machine made by you know who :D

[Al3xand3r]

No killaking, you are still dumb, if you really think the price is the defining factor on people CONSIDERING something elite. Expecting something to be elite and considering it to be elite are two completely separate definitions which you overlap in very stupid ways to make a very stupid point. GamePro said it's not elite enough BECAUSE it's cheaper, which is incredibly stupid no matter what way you look at it. That is what I was arguing, that is what you tried to justify, and trying to change your argument into something else won't make a difference as the article's point and your original statement are in fact both stupid. Expensive will be considered elite only if it really is. Otherwise, it can also be considered an overpriced piece of **** that nobody wants to buy. Idiot.

[sigma8]

Unless of course if your running a dd-wrt compatible router with xmit pumped up you probably have no idea how to game properly. Yes you should be wired because you run into whats called packet loss. Your talkin about frame rates when we are talkin about latency. I'm silently dying reading your post.

If you like computers maybe you should realize that the 802.11 protocol was never ready and we're still waiting for 802.11(n)? in 2008 that will make all these problems go away.

Here's some points of reference.
http://vgstrategies.about.com/od/faq/a/gamesnetworking.htm

I am silently dying reading that article. That article provides no evidence that backs up his observations, he just expects you to take him at face value since he's on about.com. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's incorrect...but "speed" of wired versus wireless is referring primarily to transfer speed.

What keeps you alive in an online game is LATENCY. And he makes no mention of latency in his article. You'd be better off with a 56Kbps modem and a 5ms ping than you would with a 10MBps connection and a 1500ms ping.

[sigma8]

Now obviously the elites mainboard is a revision of the the original so who's to say they didnt fix the problem I stated above?
Well, MS said the ONLY difference was an added HDMI port, the HD, and it's black. They said all the innards were the same. Since I am pretty sure the Xenos GPU has support for a HDMI out, they could probably just cut a hole in the plastic case and wire it up with a HDMI port. I don't think they'd need to re-do their mainboard...although I may be wrong.

[Scorpion3]

My only complaint about the Xbox 360 elite--and technically, this remains to be seen--is that it may be noisy. I don't want to spend all that cash and get a leafblower.

With the new backwards compatibility stuff announced, I'm really tempted to buy now, and just ditch my old Xbox (too much dust on it, but I still need to beat Panzer Dragoon Orta and Ninja Gaiden)...but I don't want to spend nearly $500 on what seems (sounds) like a Kmart special.

That's a worthy complaint as the intercooler is extremely noisy. If it's anything like my Case mod, it has an updated fan that is actually more quiet then the original fan. And since the noisy DVD Drive was fixed (Which is has been since November 2006 or so), it should be pretty quiet. Which, btw, they meant that nothing has changed since the last change of hardware in the 360, which would have been the new DVD Drives.

And since PDO is BC, I think it's the perfect time to ditch your Xbox for games at least. I still have mine to play some older Xbox games as well as use it as a Media Center, but since every game I own is BC, I just play the games on the 360.

BTW, to everyone who misunderstood what I meant...I was saying it to the people who randomly pop in here and plow MC for putting up bad news for ANY console. I wasn't saying MC was biased for putting this up, I agree completely. The Elite needs to come with HD-DVD, HDMI, AND 2 controllers. As for me being a fanboy, sure...whatever. I don't care how you view me, just look at my sig? :rolleyes:

[sigma8]

I don't care how you view me, just look at my sig? :rolleyes:
So...you're colorblind? Fashionblind? Or both?

[gonepostl]

I am silently dying reading that article. That article provides no evidence that backs up his observations, he just expects you to take him at face value since he's on about.com. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's incorrect...but "speed" of wired versus wireless is referring primarily to transfer speed.

What keeps you alive in an online game is LATENCY. And he makes no mention of latency in his article. You'd be better off with a 56Kbps modem and a 5ms ping than you would with a 10MBps connection and a 1500ms ping.
Honest to god I just typed in "gaming wired vs wireless" and pulled whatever looked good.:p Big duh, if you know what your doing then your probably doin it right. 95% of people here or anywhere for that matter are still running wep or nothing at all let alone a good router + modem and know how to properly configure it OR most importantly position it, fact!

Btw it's not latency that's an inherent problem with n00bs with wifi. It's packet loss. Just needed to set that straight. Somewhat of a big difference.
That's a worthy complaint as the intercooler is extremely noisy. If it's anything like my Case mod, it has an updated fan that is actually more quiet then the original fan. And since the noisy DVD Drive was fixed (Which is has been since November 2006 or so), it should be pretty quiet. Which, btw, they meant that nothing has changed since the last change of hardware in the 360, which would have been the new DVD Drives.

And since PDO is BC, I think it's the perfect time to ditch your Xbox for games at least. I still have mine to play some older Xbox games as well as use it as a Media Center, but since every game I own is BC, I just play the games on the 360.

BTW, to everyone who misunderstood what I meant...I was saying it to the people who randomly pop in here and plow MC for putting up bad news for ANY console. I wasn't saying MC was biased for putting this up, I agree completely. The Elite needs to come with HD-DVD, HDMI, AND 2 controllers. As for me being a fanboy, sure...whatever. I don't care how you view me, just look at my sig? :rolleyes:

Well said!!!! I have a whole new view for you now. All of your other comments were short and seemed arrogant. Just bad coincidence and I'm sorry for what I said!
No killaking, you are still dumb, if you really think the price is the defining factor on people CONSIDERING something elite. Expecting something to be elite and considering it to be elite are two completely separate definitions which you overlap in very stupid ways to make a very stupid point. GamePro said it's not elite enough BECAUSE it's cheaper, which is incredibly stupid no matter what way you look at it. That is what I was arguing, that is what you tried to justify, and trying to change your argument into something else won't make a difference as the article's point and your original statement are in fact both stupid. Expensive will be considered elite only if it really is. Otherwise, it can also be considered an overpriced piece of **** that nobody wants to buy. Idiot.
I bought two 4 gig ipod mini's for 100 bux. Guess I'm not leet cause it's not nano:rolleyes:

[KainXS]

what does ipods have to do with this

[gonepostl]

what does ipods have to do with this
Same analogy

[pCeSlAyEr]

I don't care how you view me, just look at my sig? :rolleyes:
*looks at sig*
hey where's the PS2 and 3? lol

[Razgrith]

What can we do? Gamepro is biased against Microsoft. T

[gonepostl]

What can we do? Gamepro is biased against Microsoft. T
leh sigh....

[sigma8]

Honest to god I just typed in "gaming wired vs wireless" and pulled whatever looked good.:p Big duh, if you know what your doing then your probably doin it right. 95% of people here or anywhere for that matter are still running wep or nothing at all let alone a good router + modem and know how to properly configure it OR most importantly position it, fact!

Ok, I have done my little experiment. Here are my findings:

SiteA = sony.com
SiteB = google.com
SiteC = a local university's system

Round 1, Wireless:
SiteA: 99.006ms (avg of 9 pings)
SiteB: 23.523ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteC: 11.388ms (avg of 12 pings)

Round 1, Wired:
SiteA: 107.961ms (avg of 13 pings)
SiteB: 22.646ms (avg of 11 pings)
SiteC: 9.213ms (avg of 11 pings)

Round 2, Wireless:
SiteA: 102.187ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteB: 24.461ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteC: 10.853ms (avg of 10 pings)

Round 2, Wired:
SiteA: 98.486ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteB: 23.344ms (avg of 11 pings)
SiteC: 8.945ms (avg of 14 pings)

Round 3, Google only comparison using two computers simultaneously: one wired, one wireless; previous tests were done sequentially, using a single computer (by turning on/off wireless, and plugging/unplugging the network cable).

Round 3 results:
23.435ms (avg of 20 pings) on wired
24.697ms (avg of 20 pings) on wireless

Conclusion: Eyebaling these numbers, I'd say on average, being wired gives you about a 1 millisecond advantage. Unfortunately, I don't think that duration is substantial enough for human beings to appreciate and capitalize upon.

If I was competing for a huge cash prize, I'd probably insist on getting that extra millisecond...if for no reason other than the psychological comfort it would provide, knowing that I was getting every last millisecond... but otherwise.. I don't think 1 millisecond merits going out of your way to hardwire something...or the bashing of wireless.

edit: To help put these numbers into perspective.. Remember that when somebody shoots a rocket at you online, assuming you are getting pings like these google pings, you don't even see the rocket get fired until about 50ms after your opponent pulls the trigger...because it takes around 25ms for their mouse-click to get the server, and then another 25ms for the server to tell your computer that a rocket has been fired.

So.. Take the amount of time between the opponent clicking his mouse button on his computer, and the rocket visibly leaving his barrel on your computer. Seems near instantaneous, right? Now divide that amount of time by 50... 1/50th of that time is how much of a disadvantage you are at if you are on wi-fi.

edit: actually, ping is supposed to be a round-trip I believe. So I guess instead of dividing "instantaneous" by 50, you'd divide it by 25. Still, a ridiculously small amount of time.

[Abaddon666]

ya i saw the price for it today $549.99 canadian at futureshop

useless unless they fix the red lights problem

You know, MS AFAIK never admitted to having produced faulty Boxes. Announcing the Elite from being less faulty than the (elder) Premiums or Cores would mean much trouble for MS I think. These red lights will "magically" become less and less with new boxes being produced and broken ones being repaired or taken off the market. I think the only people who really perturb this cycle are those, who give in and sell their broken 360 for 50 bucks over Ebay and start moaning in every single forum on the internet. Then this broken box is most likely being bought and "repaired" with a hairddryer, lol. Of course this makes it one faulty box more on the marked, as it works for a few days or weeks but dies shortly after. Then the procedure restarts.

Over here in Germany MS repairs/exchanges the 360s without problems. I had mine repaired just before last christmas. It didn't have the warranty seal anymore but no problem, didn't even take a week. It doens't even matter, when you bought it, it's like "unofficially unlimited warranty" as they KNOW that the three red lights of death are their fault.

[shrimpdude]

"Largest common denominator" is a made up term. It doesn't even make sense.

It's the LOWEST common denominator that developers always cater to, in order to reach the highest number of consumers.

[Rockman_Joey]

Great, another thread in the 360 forum for all the PS3 fanboys to congregate and preach how the 360 is ****. Yet, when there's a negative PS3 thread in the PS3 section..."MC is totally biased against the PS3 and Wii." lmao

Not at all, this article is pointing out that the Elite isn't that great in terms of hardware revisions. I've got a 360 and I really don't see the fucking point of getting this even if it has HDMI and a bigger HDD.

I think most people will just buy the Premium Console with a 120GB HDD to make things easier and I'm not bothered about the colour of the console, as long as there is no Red Lights, I'm fine.

My brother might get this anyway but I think the Elite is a bit of a **** console revision in my opinion, would have waited to put in the 65mm CPU and sort out a few problems first before releasing the Elite.

And the HD-DVD wasnt included with the Elite as a built in Drive because Microsoft said, "the format hasn't proved itself" which is fair enough a smart idea.

The PS3 has everything thrown in the console which to some people thats good but unlike the 360 Core, you can choose to upgrade in your own time.

[Scorpion3]

Well said!!!! I have a whole new view for you now. All of your other comments were short and seemed arrogant. Just bad coincidence and I'm sorry for what I said!

Short? I take offense to that! Not really, but not all my posts are short. :( Unless by comments you meant in this thread, then you're right, they do sound arrogant. Sorry. lol

So...you're colorblind? Fashionblind? Or both?

Say what? Not sure I understood this so...

*looks at sig*
hey where's the PS2 and 3? lol

That should explain it? If that was the way you were going anyway. *Shrugs*

What can we do? Gamepro is biased against Microsoft. T
leh sigh....

True, and IGN is too, and Gamespot is biased against Sony, and...well I guess all of them support Nintendo but what gamer doesn't? lol Nintendo IS still around for a reason. But anyhoo, in my experience, the only place you can a rough estimate on how good games REALLY are, without biasness, is gamerankings.com. They take ratings from many websites and make a ratio based on them all so it makes it a little more reliable IMHO.

[trancehead]

i got wired 1000Mb/sec on one PC
and a wireless connection on laptop that gets 54Mb/sec
ADSL line is 1536/256
and i see no difference between my wired and wireless
and i suspect as long as my ADSL speeds stay below my local connection speeds, then i'll never see a difference

[ku16610]

Ok, I have done my little experiment. Here are my findings:

SiteA = sony.com
SiteB = google.com
SiteC = a local university's system

Round 1, Wireless:
SiteA: 99.006ms (avg of 9 pings)
SiteB: 23.523ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteC: 11.388ms (avg of 12 pings)

Round 1, Wired:
SiteA: 107.961ms (avg of 13 pings)
SiteB: 22.646ms (avg of 11 pings)
SiteC: 9.213ms (avg of 11 pings)

Round 2, Wireless:
SiteA: 102.187ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteB: 24.461ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteC: 10.853ms (avg of 10 pings)

Round 2, Wired:
SiteA: 98.486ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteB: 23.344ms (avg of 11 pings)
SiteC: 8.945ms (avg of 14 pings)

Round 3, Google only comparison using two computers simultaneously: one wired, one wireless; previous tests were done sequentially, using a single computer (by turning on/off wireless, and plugging/unplugging the network cable).

Round 3 results:
23.435ms (avg of 20 pings) on wired
24.697ms (avg of 20 pings) on wireless

Conclusion: Eyebaling these numbers, I'd say on average, being wired gives you about a 1 millisecond advantage. Unfortunately, I don't think that duration is substantial enough for human beings to appreciate and capitalize upon.

If I was competing for a huge cash prize, I'd probably insist on getting that extra millisecond...if for no reason other than the psychological comfort it would provide, knowing that I was getting every last millisecond... but otherwise.. I don't think 1 millisecond merits going out of your way to hardwire something...or the bashing of wireless.

edit: To help put these numbers into perspective.. Remember that when somebody shoots a rocket at you online, assuming you are getting pings like these google pings, you don't even see the rocket get fired until about 50ms after your opponent pulls the trigger...because it takes around 25ms for their mouse-click to get the server, and then another 25ms for the server to tell your computer that a rocket has been fired.

So.. Take the amount of time between the opponent clicking his mouse button on his computer, and the rocket visibly leaving his barrel on your computer. Seems near instantaneous, right? Now divide that amount of time by 50... 1/50th of that time is how much of a disadvantage you are at if you are on wi-fi.

edit: actually, ping is supposed to be a round-trip I believe. So I guess instead of dividing "instantaneous" by 50, you'd divide it by 25. Still, a ridiculously small amount of time.


Get a life , try playing some games instead of wasting your time arguing about what really is a dull and pathetic topic.

[RottenFox]

Meh I can live with it. Not to mention that they are actually going to put Lite-on in as the new drive which is like the best move they could have possibly made!


liteon/benq drives are utter shite....past history shows that..

[Xenogears V]

Simple, as from title Xbox 360 Elite not so Elite.

[loliix]

liteon/benq drives are utter shite....past history shows that..LiteOn was the OEM supplier of most Sony branded burners.
BenQ has managed to create one of the best ODD units thanks to their partnership with Philips.

LiteOn makes cheap products.. BenQ makes high quality drives at affordable prices..

[Al3xand3r]

Sigma, the rocket example would only give 25ms delay, not 50ms. The other person may fire the rocket 50ms earlier than you see it but the rocket isn't actually fired as far as the game is concerned until it hits the server who handles all the data, which means that's 25ms later than the person clicked to fire, which means you only get a 25ms delay. If the client decided when things actually happen that would be very very bad depending on each person's different pings :)

[sigma8]

Get a life , try playing some games instead of wasting your time arguing about what really is a dull and pathetic topic.
This is classic...you are telling me to not waste my life on things that may actually prove useful like research, and to play games instead. lolol

[sigma8]

Sigma, the rocket example would only give 25ms delay, not 50ms. The other person may fire the rocket 50ms earlier than you see it but the rocket isn't actually fired as far as the game is concerned until it hits the server who handles all the data, which means that's 25ms later than the person clicked to fire, which means you only get a 25ms delay. If the client decided when things actually happen that would be very very bad depending on each person's different pings :)
yeah, i think i noted this in my second "edit" yesterday. I didn't remove my original "wrong" calculation, I just amended it.

[Al3xand3r]

Sorry missed that I guess :P

[Scorpion3]

Not at all, this article is pointing out that the Elite isn't that great in terms of hardware revisions. I've got a 360 and I really don't see the fucking point of getting this even if it has HDMI and a bigger HDD.

I think most people will just buy the Premium Console with a 120GB HDD to make things easier and I'm not bothered about the colour of the console, as long as there is no Red Lights, I'm fine.

My brother might get this anyway but I think the Elite is a bit of a **** console revision in my opinion, would have waited to put in the 65mm CPU and sort out a few problems first before releasing the Elite.

And the HD-DVD wasnt included with the Elite as a built in Drive because Microsoft said, "the format hasn't proved itself" which is fair enough a smart idea.

The PS3 has everything thrown in the console which to some people thats good but unlike the 360 Core, you can choose to upgrade in your own time.

lol, you gotta catch up. :p

BTW, to everyone who misunderstood what I meant...I was saying it to the people who randomly pop in here and plow MC for putting up bad news for ANY console. I wasn't saying MC was biased for putting this up, I agree completely. The Elite needs to come with HD-DVD, HDMI, AND 2 controllers. As for me being a fanboy, sure...whatever. I don't care how you view me, just look at my sig? :rolleyes:

LiteOn was the OEM supplier of most Sony branded burners.
BenQ has managed to create one of the best ODD units thanks to their partnership with Philips.

LiteOn makes cheap products.. BenQ makes high quality drives at affordable prices..

Well put, I always buy my burners from Lite-On because they're always reliable and won't burn out no matter how many media discs you burn.

[gonepostl]

Ok, I have done my little experiment. Here are my findings:

SiteA = sony.com
SiteB = google.com
SiteC = a local university's system

Round 1, Wireless:
SiteA: 99.006ms (avg of 9 pings)
SiteB: 23.523ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteC: 11.388ms (avg of 12 pings)

Round 1, Wired:
SiteA: 107.961ms (avg of 13 pings)
SiteB: 22.646ms (avg of 11 pings)
SiteC: 9.213ms (avg of 11 pings)

Round 2, Wireless:
SiteA: 102.187ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteB: 24.461ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteC: 10.853ms (avg of 10 pings)

Round 2, Wired:
SiteA: 98.486ms (avg of 10 pings)
SiteB: 23.344ms (avg of 11 pings)
SiteC: 8.945ms (avg of 14 pings)

Round 3, Google only comparison using two computers simultaneously: one wired, one wireless; previous tests were done sequentially, using a single computer (by turning on/off wireless, and plugging/unplugging the network cable).

Round 3 results:
23.435ms (avg of 20 pings) on wired
24.697ms (avg of 20 pings) on wireless

Conclusion: Eyebaling these numbers, I'd say on average, being wired gives you about a 1 millisecond advantage. Unfortunately, I don't think that duration is substantial enough for human beings to appreciate and capitalize upon.

If I was competing for a huge cash prize, I'd probably insist on getting that extra millisecond...if for no reason other than the psychological comfort it would provide, knowing that I was getting every last millisecond... but otherwise.. I don't think 1 millisecond merits going out of your way to hardwire something...or the bashing of wireless.

edit: To help put these numbers into perspective.. Remember that when somebody shoots a rocket at you online, assuming you are getting pings like these google pings, you don't even see the rocket get fired until about 50ms after your opponent pulls the trigger...because it takes around 25ms for their mouse-click to get the server, and then another 25ms for the server to tell your computer that a rocket has been fired.

So.. Take the amount of time between the opponent clicking his mouse button on his computer, and the rocket visibly leaving his barrel on your computer. Seems near instantaneous, right? Now divide that amount of time by 50... 1/50th of that time is how much of a disadvantage you are at if you are on wi-fi.

edit: actually, ping is supposed to be a round-trip I believe. So I guess instead of dividing "instantaneous" by 50, you'd divide it by 25. Still, a ridiculously small amount of time.

Complete waste of time. There's a difference between wireless card and wireless bridge. I can't believe you followed up on my post. I feel insulted. Please tell me you don't have a degree in networking. PLEASE!:p

Wikipedia: Wireless bridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_bridge)
Wikipedia: Wireless card (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_card)

LiteOn makes cheap products.. BenQ makes high quality drives at affordable prices..
Pretty sure you have that one backwards.
Click me! (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106013)
Lite-on is the shiznit:cool:

[Seeker2002]

I really have to agree with these two strongly 6 & 8. If MS really wanted to win the war on the HD format they should have made the HD-DVD player standard in the Elite model along with including the 120 gb Hd. This would have really made it the best system out there without any doubt hands down.:) I have 2 Xbox 360 systems already, and if this would have been included in the Elite system, I would have even went out an brought the new system just because it would have had the HD-DVD included. You should'nt have to go out and buy another device just to watch HD DVD movies.:confused:
__________________________________________________ _____

6. No HD-DVD bundle. Is the Elite trying to be a multimedia device or not? Not including an HD-DVD drive just feels underdeveloped, and something Microsoft could have used to juice up excitement for the Elite. Of course, we can't help but suspect that the increasing popularity of Blu-ray had something to do with the decision to exclude HD-DVD this time around. Furthermore, the add-on drive will not be released in black for Elite owners still wanting HD-DVD support. That'll look real classy on your entertainment center; the black-and-white cookie look is so in this year.

8. The machine isn't intended for gamers. Ultimately, the Elite has nothing to do with enhancing the gameplay experience; it's for multimedia whores. HDMI, a larger hard drive, new movies and TV content? Great. Remind me why the gamer in me cares? How will the Elite improve my games? From a game saving and demo download standpoint, a 20 GB hard drive is more than enough (hint: you were right the first time, Microsoft). After all, despite whom Elite is being pitched to, gamers are the ones really buying the product.