Clarification: WiiKey Confirm Divineo as NON official Reseller [Archive]

*StoneCold*

04-02-2007, 05:30 PM

Yes it now looks like its been confirmed by the wiikey team, Divineo has been removed from their resellers list for selling clones.

Anyway here is their new news update about their reseller list:

Reseller list clarification
We have received a lot of comments regarding the resellers offering clones lately. We understand that customers look to us for finding the original products. However, there are a few considerations we have had. Firstly, there have been some differences in the visual appearance of the wiikey between the batches, making it more difficult to distinguish the original product. Secondly, we feel it would not be fair to remove, and thereby effectively blacklist, a reseller based on allegations we cannot corroborate. We will now take a tougher stance and follow up directly with companies listed on this website if there is any suspicion that they may sell clones. This will also benefit resellers to offers the genuine product, as they should not have to compete on price level with an inferior product.

We would like to ask everyone to make a serious consideration before buying or reselling clone chips. Our customers buys original chips because they expect premium quality, support, and performance. We, the developers, and the original resellers, want to provide all of this. To do so, we need to spend a lot of time and effort on it, and we must receive income from our work, just like any other people. This will, of course, result in a higher price than if we just wanted to sell a lot of chips quickly and never think of them again after they left our warehouse. If you think that our product is too expensive, or that it is wrong to pay for a modchip, then please consider using one of the free solutions available.

thecheekymonkey

04-02-2007, 06:00 PM

Muhahahaha...........sorry, condolences the the people who havent got what they ordered.

However, there are a few people on this forum who really need to, er , think before they speak next time............you know who you are, you bad boys!! ;)

Divineo wouldnt sell clones......................heh heh.

ASSPOP

04-02-2007, 06:03 PM

The mods might delete this thread. :(

foundmy

04-02-2007, 07:23 PM

yes its true. but a sad day since the truth came out.

the problem was if divineo said oops we ran out we bought from someone else that we thought they were originals, we can all understand that. simple mistake, manufacturer not able to deliver, so if another reseller tells you they are original you think they are. but divineo came out and said nothing of the sort. its sad because they painted themselves into a corner.

now they ship off some of the clone stuff from china to divineo.net (USA/CDN) location and they did do the right thing and list wiikey clones and wiikey originals. (even thou they say their clones are exact duplicate, customers won't know that until wiikey update comes out). but besides that they did a proper thing and list it as a clone, but divineo china didn't.

and any manufacturer out there, would most likely boot a reseller for selling clones as originals or selling both clones and originals. I mean i would expect to be booted off Cyclo-Wiz and other reseller lists if i was selling clones of their products and calling it an original and using their name. its not proper and any manufacturer (team) out there would do that exact same thing.
Same thing happened to modchip.ca when he was selling xenium ice but bought clones as well as originals and mixed his batches. so you never knew if you got a real or fake until we (customers) could tell, then xenium team booted him. that is to be expected.

Word travels fast these days, eventually truth been told and a lesson learnt for all.

Terry

11111

04-02-2007, 07:32 PM

wow so much added hate on this thread lol.

but whatever, makes a good read.

thecheekymonkey

04-02-2007, 07:44 PM

wow so much added hate on this thread lol.

but whatever, makes a good read.

yes, especially the other threads, where those who know best , get poked in the eye ;)

funny as.

xmod

04-02-2007, 07:54 PM

Honestly, clone or not, as anyone really proven the difference ?

REALLY!

WTF could be the difference, seriously!

I got 25 wikkey's from divineo.cn and seems to be more than half are supposed clones! yet it does the exact same job!

So PLEASE, if you dont know anything about modchips, stop freakin out people with the clone ****.

I reallly dont care who sells it, where it comes from, and what its made of!
as long as it does what i need it to do.

Until proven otherwise, please, stfu.

thank you

;)

foundmy

04-02-2007, 08:02 PM

xmod: well you paid too much for clones then.

are you passing them off as real wiikey? what happens when updates happen and they dont for your customer, are you going to refund and replace or are you just going to vanish into the air and run?

i mean can a customer tell a difference between a real MI or a Fake MI?
only when they try to do updates and changes.

Anyone can build a kit car, but to tell it as a real thing, i would hate to see your car dealership sales technique. Really it looks the same, gets you from point A to point B.

xmod: simple doesn't sell them as originals if they are clones be bigger than that and sell them as clones and if you can't tell, then i can.

blah123

04-02-2007, 08:29 PM

I can't wait till the update is released and then this forum is filled with "zomg my wiikey won't upgrade! it says it's a clone!"

ASSPOP

04-02-2007, 09:10 PM

yea i really hope, it zaps the clones or something. :D Well sure, it works right now xmod, thats great, you know you were ripped off right? you know that clones are worth 11$ each right? so you really got ripped off and you didn't say anything, well there you go, thats pretty sad you were ripped off and love to take it in the ass i guess.

BentZero

04-02-2007, 10:04 PM

11111

04-02-2007, 10:12 PM

Well, like I said I've already ordered my WiiKey b/c I thought Divineo was true to their word and sold originals. Now I might get f*cked. As far as the update goes A) What would the update have that a cloner would need and B) The update shouldn't kill the clone chips. It should just not allow the update. There are probably a lot of people out there, like me, that did not intend to get a clone and to this day may not even know that they have a clone. Why would you want these people to get raped even more than they already have? Did you make the WiiKey? Are you losing money everytime a clone sells? I'm totally against clones, but I'm also against unsuspecting people getting screwed over even more than they already have.

this is definitely a hot debate. people with wiikey "clones" that thought they were getting originals shouldn't get punished because it was out of their hands.

i would think that the wiikey team is smart enough to understand this situation but we'll see what they do. if possible 'zap' clones, make enemies, lose customers, make more money(people then will start buying originals).

OR leave the situation alone (per say the can even 'zap' clones), possibility lose a ton of money in the future from clones, still get customers that purchased clones on accident praise them. business wise for me personally is not a good move.

it's a really tough situation but in the end money does win.
EDIT: or they can just say screw it, zap everything, and say i told you not to buy from non official retailers *sticks tongue out*.

xmod

04-02-2007, 10:23 PM

I am very aware, trust me.

I have contacted them about the issue and they have responded with a guarantee that their chips are NOT clones and that there will b updatability.
(http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=475098&postcount=58)

As for my "customers", they are equally aware and find the whole clone war situation as hilarious as I do.

What I am tryin to say is that I pay a certain amount for a chip,
and I get a chip. When it dosent work, thats when I get mad!
Not for stuff like "Oh, your C2 is a bit to the right, its a fake"
If the thing don't update, trust me, ill be on divineo's ass!

But the thing is that NO ONE knows for sure what will happen, its all rumors and speculations! REALLY.

And up to now, "clone" or not, its working.
So in my book, I got what I paid for.

;)

11111

04-02-2007, 10:54 PM

was reading about ps2 mods a little bit earlier today and found this on the matrix team's site. just wondering if wiikey can do similar things. interesting read to me.

"We'd also like to take the time to mention a feature of the CrystalChip that many people do not know about. Unlike most chips, particularly Matrix Infinity, CrystalChip contains many features which make it virtually un-cloneable! Even if a "clone" were made(which is very very difficult), it is virtually impossible for it to completely emulate the CrystalChip since we have some secret commands embedded in the secure Actel FPGA which will only respond to a set of unique 128-bit sequences. Even attempting brute-force to determine what these sequences are would take a months, if not years, since you must reset the PS2 before the CC will allow you to try another sequence if you get it wrong. Not only that but even if one sequence was cracked, we have many in the FPGA so we can block clones simply by changing the sequence used to verify the chip while maintaining compatability with all existing genuine Crystal Chips!"

cravavr3

04-02-2007, 11:24 PM

Atmega chips can be cloned easily by expereinced people, ACTEL is a bi-atch and can take along time to clone if you can break the AES.

Unfortunitly the atmega chips when clones will contain one byte different, but detection of the 1 byte is usualy hopeless for copy protection to detect, as cloners can monitor a update and see exact byte and then patch there chip to an EXACT copy. Or patch one byte in update disc and release clone fix. Anyone that does sat will remember dssrev and clones and this is what exactly happened, then original coders dropped support as clones outselled originals and now a bunch of useless chips out there ( although using atmega128 and used 8 AES keys - each updated used dif key until clones perfected all keys).

wiikey uses atmega8l and unfortunitly cloneable. I see/predict they will release a new chip( actel ) with better security in future, as wiinja is cloned as well.

As for divineo, they have always sold original and clones/knockoffs of most products, but hide behind different divisions on company ( .cn, .net, .com )

Why all the complaining???? have yet to see backup recovery or update for wiikey yet...............just setup disk changer. And people wiikey clones have been able to use setup disc.....

EpochCT

04-03-2007, 01:42 AM

I really doubt cloners will support their released product, or even develop it further, so when you're buying a clone you're paying against the future of your chip.

norry

04-03-2007, 02:19 AM

There was no clarification required. Anyone with half a brain knew from the moment the story got out what the situation was, just got to know what sites to trust for your news :)

thelairster

04-03-2007, 03:16 AM

11111

04-03-2007, 05:29 AM

LilaQ

04-03-2007, 07:21 AM

Well it sorta pisses me off that the update is delayed only because some big stupid ass company thinks it's a good idea to officially sell crappy clones and therefore try to stab the WiiKey team again. If this again is a marketing "strategy" to promote and sell more Cyclos then I hope everyone related to this idea will be raped by some sickass donkey! :mad:

11111

04-03-2007, 07:24 AM

idunder

04-03-2007, 08:06 AM

I hate to say it folks, but the clones will update. They are carbon copies of the wiikey running the same code. Heaps of people with clones say the setup disc works just fine and if thats the truth, the updates will work just fine. So if you have a clone it sucks, but it will work.

As long as the orignal wiikey was dumped 100% then there will be NO ISSUES with updating clones. For the wiikey team to claim they are holding back an update to deal with clones is just more bullsh*t.

Given that these "clones" all started showing up almost at the same exact time of the "original" release. They are really probably seperate runs of the original wiikey that the makers had a falling out with. Or one of the places they contracted with ran many extra runs. They already had the code, the microntrollers, etc.. There was NOT enough time to clone the PCB and microcontroller and code from the chip based on timeframe.

And if any recall, there was a clone 1 week before the wiikey was actually released. That looked identical to the current wiikey. My guess is the wiikey company had some type of falling out with the main starters or something before it came to market.

Notice how there are no clones of the Cyclowiz? Even though it's better currently then the wiikey?

Something is fishy with the wiikey and all it's "clones"

Either way, I bet the majority of them update just fine. The only odd one is that one with the wire going across the top of the Microcontroller.. That looks like a knock off and not a clone.

And what is it with all of you say no to clones crap?

Talk about hypocrites. You are worried about a company that clones the work of another company that makes products to circumvent copy protection?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!! hahaha

They probably should have picked a better word then clone if they wanted to slam these other wiikeys, given that a clone means an identical copy.

11111

04-03-2007, 09:30 AM

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 10:11 AM

Well, the topic here is not really clones or not clones. So people shouldn't go off topic. Especially XMOD who is an idiot for his posts.

Here is the basic facts:

1- Divineo is lying to their clients and selling them clones when they should be real
2- Divineo was charging full Wiikey prices on the cheaper Wiikey clones
3- Divineo blatently lied about the fact that they were sending clones out to people

That is just shaddy business practice. I will never order from them again because of this. They just can't be trusted.

I would also recommend for noone to get their system modded by XMOD. Obviously he believes in the same shaddy business practices, and won't think twice in screwing his clients over. Regardless if he thinks this is funny or not.

If the clones are identical or not doesn't matter. I could sell you China town knock offs of Louis Vitton bags at full prices. In some cases you won't be able to tell the difference at all. Is it OK for me to sell something as an original at $600, when I paid $40 for it? I know that there is a bigger price descrepancy with my example, but the point still stands.

The way I look at it, Divineo stole money from it's clients and participated in fraud. If they just said we ran out of originals, and asked their clients if they wanted the clones, then that would be one thing. But they did not. That is the point, and let's not forget it.

BentZero

04-03-2007, 10:16 AM

I emailed Divineo asking them why they got removed from the reseller list and would I be getting a clone. Here is there rather quick response. I'll let you know if I get a clone from them or not.

Hi,

No we are selling the original Wiikey only , we have been removed from the reseller list because www.divineo.com sells the clone one.
We will clarify the clone one if when we sell it.

Best regards,
Divineo CN

idunder

04-03-2007, 11:31 AM

^
idunder's post is very plausible. if someone had remembered the other thread about the supercard 'clones' the same thing happened. everything was the same and the supercard team said they were 'clones' just because they werent the ones making the money.

That's how these HK makers roll..

There are like what, with clones included like 6 different versions of the wiikey now? (When I say different, I mean the PCB differs ever so slightly.. color, silk screening, trace size etc..) But they all have the same micro controller and the PCB is the same thickness and the same size.

The ONLY one that looks much different is the NEWEST "original" wiikey, the one with gold contacts and the contacts for 4 of the points now go through the PCB I believe for better quick soldering.

I bet there is more then meets the eye here going on with Wiikey.

And as far as Divenio China goes. They list clones for sale and orginals now. Before they claim they thought they were selling orginals. I have followed the threads here closely and saw like a total of 5 different people post they received a clone from divenieo china. And many more say they received originals.

I have NEVER been done wrong by Divenio china in the past. The chip they sold me EVEN if it is a "clone" - I really don't think these others are clones though. I could care less, it does what it's supposed to do. There is NO substandard parts here.

It's the SAME micro controller, the same style PCB, what the heck is going to make this mod work any less if it was a "clone". It's the SAME code on the chip, out of the 5 different people that DID post they claim to have had a Divineo Clone of the wiikey, not ONE said the settings disk did NOT work.

These are very simple devices to defeat the wii protection as far as the hardware goes. I have ordered from Divenio China over the years and have NEVER been done wrong. I am not about to stop ordering from them because there are like 4 different production lines of the wiikey mod chips (and 3 clone lines that look almost the same) floating around out there, and Divenio China may have sold a few from them. (Under what circumstances we might never know)

They list a clone now, they list an orginal.

If the wiikey team actually seemed like they had their sh*t together, then bashing on Divineo China might be justified in my mind. But jeez, based on all the different makers of the "original" wiikey, and their lack of updates or acknowledgment of current bugs, they are FAR from trustable.

Diveneio China has been in business for HOW long? and now they are hell bent in screwing over the consumer out of all these $$$, you guys make it sound like the sky is falling.

I think it all starts with the Wiikey makers.

Just remember there were "clones" available before the offical launch.

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 12:09 PM

How in hell does Wiikey not have their **** together. You're blaming them for the clones on the market? All their chips look similar. In two seperate forms. It is incredible how biased the users here are.

Lets review the facts AGAIN!

If I wanted to buy a clone chip, I could have choosen to buy a clone chip. Instead of buying an original and recieving a clone! What the hell is so hard to understand about that.

Divineo knew what they were doing. Come on. To blame the original maker of the chip for the clones on the market is retarded. They are not to blame.

I am really starting to hate the ignorance here. There is no validity to your comment what so ever. Please state how they don't admit to their bugs? What bugs? And updates? They released an update before the Cyclowiz. Honestly if you want to come off with some damm version of the truth, then be truthful.

Only requests I have of Mods, is at least moderate the truth. I know this is very hard to do. But I have to say I almost never come here any longer for Wii related news and information. This has been this way from the begining. Having blatantly false information posted makes me trust this place less and less. I know it is not your fault as mods that these posts are made, but if you can moderate them, it would be appreciated.

I would love to be part of a community that shows the information as is, instead of constantly focusing on one company and one point. It is not doing anyone any good to have one sided posts.

idunder

04-03-2007, 12:25 PM

How in hell does Wiikey not have their **** together. You're blaming them for the clones on the market? All their chips look similar. In two seperate forms. It is incredible how biased the users here are.

Lets review the facts AGAIN!

If I wanted to buy a clone chip, I could have choosen to buy a clone chip. Instead of buying an original and recieving a clone! What the hell is so hard to understand about that.

Divineo knew what they were doing. Come on. To blame the original maker of the chip for the clones on the market is retarded. They are not to blame.

I am really starting to hate the ignorance here. There is no validity to your comment what so ever.

Biased?!? I own a wiikey.

Just take a look at reality.

Take a look at how many different "original" wiikey there are.

Here I will link them for you from the "offical wiikey site".

http://www.wiikey.cn/images/clones2.jpg

The 3 images on the LEFT are all supposedly wiikey made originals. (the 3 on the left are supposedly clones)

http://www.wiikey.cn/images/wkr.jpg

That is yet ANOTHER supposed original wiikey from the wiikey site.

That is 4 total different production lines of the same damn chip that differ.

There are supposedly 3 + lines of clones. Yet the closely resemble the "orginals". Just as much as the "orginals" differ from new line to new line. Given that the Wiikey makers are spread out like a 2 bit whore in HK having multiple runs done of this chip, who is to say the clones were not contracted by them to begin with! This is not exactly an honest business..

Why the heck could they not get the lines to be the same even if they were different makers in HK?

There was clone wiikey available I believe around a week before launch of the wiikey. I think it surfaced in Spain first and on ebay. I can't recall now.

And you guys are pissed at Divenio China for selling clones when at that time, they MIGHT not have even known it?

Like I said, look through the threads here, count the main thread on Divenio China clone. I counted 5 total people claiming to have received a clone. None commented on if the settings disk worked.

Robotron

04-03-2007, 12:33 PM

Interesting thread.

The problem I have with clone chips is that you are not supporting the team that designed that technology. It's funny how people ***** about no updates and yet think it's ok to buy a clone. If you're not supporting a company financially why the hell would you expect support?

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 12:42 PM

The pictures of the originals look almost identical to each other. Some basically have the white writing on the chipset whipped off or not. You can see the clones there by the font size on the C2 and R3.

As a responsible reseller Divineo could have easily checked to see if there were differences in their chips. In one of their responses, they mentioned they ordered from a factory that was an unknown producer of the WiiKey, but they said they were an actual producer of the WiiKey. All of this could have been honest mistakes on Divineo's part. But they did not treat it in this manner. They just said that they are 100% originals, even if they were not.

I am not arguing that the Original and the clones are not identical. There is no way to know if they are or are not identical. The only thing I am saying is that if you paid money for an original, you better get an original.

But don't blame WiiKey for not keeping the chip 100% consistant across all factories. As you can see some factories wipe off the tags but keep things consistant. These things can happen to any chip maker. Even with big companies like Sony.

I also find it suspecious that Divineo was never selling the clone chips until it was found that people were recieving clone chips when they should have been getting originals. Everyone knows it was much easier to get clone chips then it was to get originals a couple of weeks back. Mean while a lot of people were having problems getting their chips from official resellers and absolutely noone was having problems recieving their chips from Divineo. Divineo was first to ship the WiiKey's out of all resellers, and also there was almost no Preorders. All this is a little wierd wouldn't you say?

Also, what are the bugs on the WiiKey that you have? I don't have any. The only thing I know of, that is not a bug has to do multitrack for GC games. So what is the bugs your refering to?

blah123

04-03-2007, 12:50 PM

I hate to say it folks, but the clones will update. They are carbon copies of the wiikey running the same code. Heaps of people with clones say the setup disc works just fine and if thats the truth, the updates will work just fine. So if you have a clone it sucks, but it will work.

This is far from the truth. These chips aren't just one block of code. Provided I'm looking at the right data sheet these chips have
1) 8Kbyte self-programming Flash Program Memory (this is where the actual drive patching code resides and actually does all the work)
2) 1-Kbyte SRAM (I'm no expert but I'd say this is basically the equivalent to RAM in your computer. )
3) 512 Byte EEPROM (This is where variables are stored ie: region patching being on or off and other settings)

Now looking at this all a clone would have to do is store the variables inside the EEPROM and provide the same procedures for writing to it. Now obviously the program is going to need to be able to read these variables and actually do the region patching based on the setting but does that mean it has to be identical to what the original does? No. Let's say the clones managed to copy the EEPROM format and data perfectly but failed to dump the 8Kbyte flash properly so it's hash varies from the hash of the original. The wiikey team (provided this is possible) would just have to check the hash of what's in the chip and verify that it is what it's expecting. Even 1 bit difference will make this check fail and the upgrade not work.

Could someone edit the upgrade file with the clone hash so people with clone can update? Sure most likely. Is someone who's sole goal here is to make a clone of a reputable chip just to make a buck going to spend their time on such a thing? I doubt it. Most likely they'd just update the code on their clone chips they are producing onward and anyone with an older clone would be stuck either buying a new 'real' chip or buy a newer clone with the updated firmware on it. Only to have to repeat the process if another update is ever done.

Hopefully this will clear some things up. And if anything is wrong with my post please feel free to correct me. But provide some proof or backing. No more of this "zomg you're completely wrong I'm right these clones are perfect copies" ****.

Here's the page where I got my info on the chip from. It's not a REAL data sheet (I looked at one earlier but couldn't find it again. The values I was looking for are the same on this page though).

Data sheet (http://www.datasheets.org.uk/search.php?q=ATMEGA8L&sType=part)

cravavr3

04-03-2007, 01:04 PM

Too bad wiikey never serialized the chips as extra security, but clone extract key, ban key from updates.

Interesting of all the clones news and it has been stated over and over, clones existed before official release, maybe bad group and split holding code.

Why is everyone only bashing divineo for selling clones( if they are clones ).

Anyone remember magic 3 and 3.1 chips for PS2, developer made pcb sold predone chips, or manufacturers could buy gerbers and code of chip for 5k. Maybe wiikey did this...or maybe not.

I have an official wiikey from foundmy DOA, does not work, wiikey from divineo works on same wiring, clyclowiz and wabmodcheap. What official reseller do ignores my emails and same with wiikey.cn for replacement of DOA chip. You know we is getting my suggestions now....

Oh and my divineo chip looks identical to my foundmy. Maybe there is something wiikey is hiding or not telling public about production, etc....

BentZero

04-03-2007, 01:10 PM

Here's the thing. If you want to buy a clone then that's fine with me. We can't really complain about people ripping off WiiKey when we're buying chips to rip off developers. How ever hypocritical it may be, I don't like getting ripped off myself. If I'm going to pay full price for a WiiKey I want an actual WiiKey from the company that comes with support and updates. If I didn't care about that I'd look for the clone. That, my friends, is the root of the problem. Us modders like to rip off these companies but don't like getting ripped off ourselves. Make sense?

idunder

04-03-2007, 01:35 PM

Let's say the clones managed to copy the EEPROM format and data perfectly but failed to dump the 8Kbyte flash properly so it's hash varies from the hash of the original. The wiikey team (provided this is possible) would just have to check the hash of what's in the chip and verify that it is what it's expecting. Even 1 bit difference will make this check fail and the upgrade not work.

I think this brings up an interesting point. Given that the wiikey makers have had multiple lines that differ frome each other, chances are they could even have slight differences in the code from one original to the other. Like if they made an adustment before sending the code to producers a + b, and c + d have an another slight adjustment.

All of this is obviously speculation. My guestimate would be the clones, if you even want to call them that. Update fine, if this code from the makers of the wiikey was sent to multiple producers and the "clones" are due to these producers making continued run-offs then they are 100% true clones.

Lets just say for the sake of argument the chip was dumped. Do you think a pro would only dump one area of the chip? The datasheet is probably the first thing a person references before starting to do hist work if it's a microcontroller he has never dealt with before. I know people that reverse engineer pics and other microcontrollers on contract. I was told any chip that is sent to them to reproduce is 100% identical to the original. Wiikey better hope whomever dumped their code was a novice then and did not know the configuration of this microcontroller, but knew enough to dump only the 8KB region . Just seems unlikely. But we won't know untill wiikey makes their move.

It seems to me the makers of the wiikey are stuck. If they had a way to determine a clone from another, they would have already released an update even if it was small to address the clones. Since they are so verbal on the clones being out there. (And obviously afraid of it harming their bottom line)

They have the capability of purchasing any of these clones and comparing. If there was a difference, even releasing an update that made 10% of the clones unusable would by word of mouth quickly put the kabosh on people thinking buying clones (on purpose) is of no risk.

When a company that deals in this type of business has to resort to posting numerous pics on how to tell a clone from the real wiikey. Cannot even release a disk to determine a clone from a wiikey, it's pretty easy to guess where they stand. (Being that they probably have nothing they can do)

They already made a settings setup disk. If they had some way to determine a clone, they could easily throw together a new setup disk that just probes for details on the chip that a clone or only an authentic wiikey would have. (And then let the user know)

Then users that already have wiikeys installed by dealers and friends don't have to keep asking themselves, but do I have a clone? They could just run the disk.

All of this, between their failure to address their GC bugs and this whole fiasco with clones just makes them look bad.

If I had to buy another wii modchip now, I would not touch the wiikey clone or no clone. Theres others that are more compatible overall, that do not have this drama surounding them. (Clones, lack of update, some are quick solderable some are not, fact that someone could release a fake update that could mess with the wiikey, etc..)

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 01:53 PM

I think this brings up an interesting point. Given that the wiikey makers have had multiple lines that differ frome each other, chances are they could even have slight differences in the code from one original to the other. Like if they made an adustment before sending the code to producers a + b, and c + d have an another slight adjustment.

All of this is obviously speculation. My guestimate would be the clones, if you even want to call them that. Update fine, if this code from the makers of the wiikey was sent to multiple producers and the "clones" are due to these producers making continued run-offs then they are 100% true clones.

Lets just say for the sake of argument the chip was dumped. Do you think a pro would only dump one area of the chip? The datasheet is probably the first thing a person references before starting to do hist work if it's a microcontroller he has never dealt with before. I know people that reverse engineer pics and other microcontrollers on contract. I was told any chip that is sent to them to reproduce is 100% identical to the original. Wiikey better hope whomever dumped their code was a novice then and did not know the configuration of this microcontroller, but knew enough to dump only the 8KB region . Just seems unlikely. But we won't know untill wiikey makes their move.

It seems to me the makers of the wiikey are stuck. If they had a way to determine a clone from another, they would have already released an update even if it was small to address the clones. Since they are so verbal on the clones being out there. (And obviously afraid of it harming their bottom line)

They have the capability of purchasing any of these clones and comparing. If there was a difference, even releasing an update that made 10% of the clones unusable would by word of mouth quickly put the kabosh on people thinking buying clones (on purpose) is of no risk.

When a company that deals in this type of business has to resort to posting numerous pics on how to tell a clone from the real wiikey. Cannot even release a disk to determine a clone from a wiikey, it's pretty easy to guess where they stand. (Being that they probably have nothing they can do)

They already made a settings setup disk. If they had some way to determine a clone, they could easily throw together a new setup disk that just probes for details on the chip that a clone or only an authentic wiikey would have. (And then let the user know)

Then users that already have wiikeys installed by dealers and friends don't have to keep asking themselves, but do I have a clone? They could just run the disk.

All of this, between their failure to address their GC bugs and this whole fiasco with clones just makes them look bad.

If I had to buy another wii modchip now, I would not touch the wiikey clone or no clone. Theres others that are more compatible overall, that do not have this drama surounding them. (Clones, lack of update, some are quick solderable some are not, fact that someone could release a fake update that could mess with the wiikey, etc..)

First off, I believe the previous person had asked for fact not speculation. Your whole post is all speculation.

Secondly, the makers of the WiiKey are indeed stuck because of clones, and companies that sell clones as originals. If they release an update that bricks the clones, what is to stop people from calling the makers of the WiiKey and saying you messed up my original WiiKey. Especially since these people won't know if they had an original or not thanks to Divineo and other companies like them.

Third, there is no bug in the WiiKey when it comes to Audiofix. It is not yet supported. This is not a bug, it is a yet to be supported feature. Get that straight. In addition, the Cyclowiz does not yet support GC multigame without swap from Emu-Kidd. Is that a bug? Nope, Emu-Kidd just needs to update the code.

Fourth, it is still rediculous that you continue to blame WiiKey for the Clones. Where is your proof? You throw fiction around as fact, and you ignore fact. For instance, it was already proved that Divineo sent out clones as originals, but you chose to ignore that and displace the blame.

Lastly, why don't you answer my previous post question? I will repost it for you:

"I also find it suspecious that Divineo was never selling the clone chips until it was found that people were recieving clone chips when they should have been getting originals. Everyone knows it was much easier to get clone chips then it was to get originals a couple of weeks back. Mean while a lot of people were having problems getting their chips from official resellers and absolutely noone was having problems recieving their chips from Divineo. Divineo was first to ship the WiiKey's out of all resellers, and also there was almost no Preorders. All this is a little wierd wouldn't you say?"

I think that is more probable then your theory that poor Divineo was confused on what chips they sent out. Also, all that I have said is fact above, as opposed to speculation or fiction. I am just calling you out on some obvious points here. You are biased, even if you claim to own the chip. Use facts that can be proven if you would like to be taken seriously.

idunder

04-03-2007, 02:23 PM

First off, I believe the previous person had asked for fact not speculation. Your whole post is all speculation.

Sorry I did not notice any disclaimer stating that no replies were to be made to this post if ANY speculation was to be made.

Jackass

Secondly, the makers of the WiiKey are indeed stuck because of clones, and companies that sell clones as originals. If they release an update that bricks the clones, what is to stop people from calling the makers of the WiiKey and saying you messed up my original WiiKey. Especially since these people won't know if they had an original or not thanks to Divineo and other companies like them.

Have them go back to their dealer. That is the point of buying from an authorized dealer is it not? They release the update with the text that only authentic wiikey's are supported by this update.

Third, there is no bug in the WiiKey when it comes to Audiofix. It is not yet supported. This is not a bug, it is a yet to be supported feature. Get that straight. In addition, the Cyclowiz does not yet support GC multigame without swap from Emu-Kidd. Is that a bug? Nope, Emu-Kidd just needs to update the code.

Um it says clearly on the wiikey website:

"Built-in audio fix"

If it does not work and they claim it's built in, then that would mean there is a bug.

No where on their site do I read "oh we forgot to include support for audio fix"

Get it right.

Fourth, it is still rediculous that you continue to blame WiiKey for the Clones. Where is your proof? You throw fiction around as fact, and you ignore fact. For instance, it was already proved that Divineo sent out clones as originals, but you chose to ignore that and displace the blame.

Wiikey has like 4 production lines of chips out there, they site 3 other "clones" they all look similar. They all work the same.

There was a so-called clone released a week before the officail wiikey was released.

If you had ANY idea how these HK lines run you would see what is going on here.

I think that is more probable then your theory that poor Divineo was confused on what chips they sent out. Also, all that I have said is fact above, as opposed to speculation or fiction. I am just calling you out on some obvious points here. You are biased, even if you claim to own the chip. Use facts that can be proven if you would like to be taken seriously

I would bet they were confused (Divineo, I think they thought they were selling originals, hence no response on admiting to selling clones), hell wiikey can't even keep up with what is their chip and what is not, they recenctly added another screenshot of yet another version of their "original"

I don't need to be taken seriously by you or anyone else.. Just calling it as I see it. If others want to take a different view at it, go for it.. If not, ignore my rambling.

Edit: just to add the only reason I decided to chime in here, is that I think people should give Divenio China the benefit of the doubt. Do you have to listen to me? No I could care less, they have done right by me for a very long time. And I have read 50x more posts where people have been happy with their wiikey from Divineo china, the setup disk works and as far as they can tell from their examination it was not a "clone"

I would trust them first and Maxconsole. Rather then a company that can't get their production lines to match up, that keeps adding new "original" lines and has bugs they have yet to ackknowledge or give a time line in fixing. Or these other two bit console sites that are constantly trying to spread the FUD. It's OK to speculate. We have a bunch of real details in front of us to speculate on.

We will hopefully see some end to this in the near future if wiikey EVER releases an update. Given that a "clone" wiikey can now be purchased for $7.00 in quan 1000, my guess we might never see that update. (And then everyone will blame the cloners) -- I know I am speculating! darn

cravavr3

04-03-2007, 02:34 PM

True this can all be called speculation.

But then advertising a chip as audio stream fixed, and 1st DVD upgradable ( seems cyclowiz beat them ) without proof is false advertising. Yes we have setup disc to change settings of region/speed of DVD so does this mean i have a upgradable TV if i can control contrast settings??????

I have seen many differences in modchips for xbox on different revisions( traces added/removed-parts added/removed) , etc. usually meant for fixing things, but come on. Only differences on wiikey supposed clones is white overlay. Damn all have same resistor but differerent #' s due to manufacturer of resistor or batch ( anyone in manufacturing can confirm this )

Yes its simple PCB.

But look at it this way without knowing divineo could had bought batch of chip lets say 1k, not know as never seeing original or comparing to images on net, and see slight difference on C2 marking. They may have never known, now customers complain after they sell like 400 chips as wiikey not original and wiikey tells them. As a business are you going to write off 600 chips no you will sell as clone and state clone as you know it. Now as wiikey called them official resellers for a day it may mean a shipment from wiikey went to them direct and they can/still have real chips that are official. They just can't call themselves official resellers/distrubutors.

Speculation is teh key, but form 1st hand experience so called clone from divineo.cn( 1st batch when they listed ) i received looks identical to foundmy's and works and setup disc worked 100%. Now wiikey says clones, and forums say clones will not use setup disc so why can i hear difference from setting up 2x and 6x on a supposed clone! NOT SPECULATION as many report as clones ands setup working perfectly.

Another known fact not speculation, is media/speed used and compatible with wiikey or any modchip is BS. We all know all drives are different and some prefer other media. But is known name brand not rebranded discs work 90% time in all wii's so for saying a chip not working is a clone maybe due to media used as well as speed burnt at compatibility with that wii's drive. Also, remember top brand media do have clones/counterfeits as well, and only media analyzed for dye/manufacturer used will tell truth.

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 03:39 PM

Idunder,

Sorry I did not notice any disclaimer stating that no replies were to be made to this post if ANY speculation was to be made.

Jackass

I believe this is exactly what he asked for:

Hopefully this will clear some things up. And if anything is wrong with my post please feel free to correct me. But provide some proof or backing. No more of this "zomg you're completely wrong I'm right these clones are perfect copies" ****.

Have them go back to their dealer. That is the point of buying from an authorized dealer is it not? They release the update with the text that only authentic wiikey's are supported by this update.

Divineo didn't even admit they sent out clones. These dealers that would use clones are corrupt dealers. Why do you think they would all the sudden admit that they sold you a clone? They would just say, no, WiiKey is wrong. Your chip was burnt out by them. Contact them.

Um it says clearly on the wiikey website:

"Built-in audio fix"

If it does not work and they claim it's built in, then that would mean there is a bug.

No where on their site do I read "oh we forgot to include support for audio fix"

Get it right.

I always took this for Wii and not GC. But if you took it for GC, I will give you that. They should specify there for that point and say not for GC.

Wiikey has like 4 production lines of chips out there, they site 3 other "clones" they all look similar. They all work the same.

There was a so-called clone released a week before the officail wiikey was released.

If you had ANY idea how these HK lines run you would see what is going on here.

Look at the pictures and point out to me the main difference between the 4 pictures they posted. Basically all I see is that some manufacturers wiped off the white label on top of the chip. That is all I see. The color of the first chip can be argued is a bit darker, but I can account that to the light conditions in which the picture was taken.

The clone chips each have a distinguishing feature on them. In one pic the chip is black. The rest you can cleary see because of the bigger font size and the way the fonts are lined up.

I am fimilar with the way HK lines work. I am also fimilar that chips can stolen at any time and sold to competitors for very cheap prices. This can lead to a lot of clones which cannot be controlled. So you kill your own point there. Could WiiKey have built in additional protection? Yes, probably, but I don't know the protection that is already built in. But they should not be blamed because some one noticed there was no additional protection and stole their chip. It's like saying it's Nintendo's fault that people pirate their games. Their protection wasn't strong enough. Makes no sense.

I still noticed you completely ignored this point for a second time:

I also find it suspecious that Divineo was never selling the clone chips until it was found that people were recieving clone chips when they should have been getting originals. Everyone knows it was much easier to get clone chips then it was to get originals a couple of weeks back. Mean while a lot of people were having problems getting their chips from official resellers and absolutely noone was having problems recieving their chips from Divineo. Divineo was first to ship the WiiKey's out of all resellers, and also there was almost no Preorders. All this is a little wierd wouldn't you say?"

Cravavr3,

Well, regardless if you can chage a feature via thier update, or whatever it was, they still released it before the Cyclowiz. Since I didn't own the original WiiKey, I can't comment on wether or not this was an actual upgrade. However, I do know they released what they said within the promised time period.

As for the differences between a clone and original, you need to look closer. It's evident that on some of the chips the chip is black. Also while I would agree with you that if you haven't seen an original you could be confused about font size, but Divineo has seen originals. And also, if you notice some founts are vertical when they should be horizontal.

As for your chip, your chip is most likely an original. I don't believe Divineo sent out all clone chips. I think they just filled in orders with clones. They probably ran out of the originals and said, noone will notice, we will send the the copies.

Even if this is not the case and it was an honest mistake on their part, why would they respond by saying that they did not sell clones. Why would they just not say, "We are investigating. If you can send visual proof that the chip we sent you is a clone, we will refund your money."

Now they sell clones outright. It's just a bit too shaddy for me. They pretty much just wanted to steal business from other vendors who did not get the chips in. Of course this is speculation, but someone should really answer why they didn't handle things differently.

If I recall, Divineo stated that they would not sell something to a client that they thought would harm the end users machine and their business. So why sell clones now if they are of high moral standing?

idunder

04-03-2007, 04:40 PM

Idunder,
I believe this is exactly what he asked for:

I guess you did not catch the sarcasm.

Divineo didn't even admit they sent out clones. These dealers that would use clones are corrupt dealers. Why do you think they would all the sudden admit that they sold you a clone? They would just say, no, WiiKey is wrong. Your chip was burnt out by them. Contact them.

haha corrupt dealers that sell chips to circumvent copy protection on consoles. So Divineo is corrupt..

You really crack me up.. I love how much you speculate while slamming me for the same thing.

Maybe they did not admit to sending out clones because they did not think they were. Like 5 people posted here they received a clone. I don't doubt there could be clones out there now. I just don't believe Divineo China if they did sell any knew they were at the time.

I always took this for Wii and not GC. But if you took it for GC, I will give you that. They should specify there for that point and say not for GC.

There are allot of things the makers of the wiikey should be doing, or should have done but are not doing..

Look at the pictures and point out to me the main difference between the 4 pictures they posted. Basically all I see is that some manufacturers wiped off the white label on top of the chip. That is all I see. The color of the first chip can be argued is a bit darker, but I can account that to the light conditions in which the picture was taken.

The 1st orignal has better PCB etchting then the 2nd.
The 2nd original the PCB etching is not as good as the first.
The 3rd is GOLD contacts not tin colored. (Flash makes it look sliver/tin)
The 4th picture is a PCB that is similar to the 3rd but is TIN contacts.

All different runs more then likely at different facilities given the differences in some of the PCB cutting.

The clone chips each have a distinguishing feature on them. In one pic the chip is black. The rest you can cleary see because of the bigger font size and the way the fonts are lined up.

I am fimilar with the way HK lines work. I am also fimilar that chips can stolen at any time and sold to competitors for very cheap prices. This can lead to a lot of clones which cannot be controlled. So you kill your own point there. Could WiiKey have built in additional protection? Yes, probably, but I don't know the protection that is already built in. But they should not be blamed because some one noticed there was no additional protection and stole their chip. It's like saying it's Nintendo's fault that people pirate their games. Their protection wasn't strong enough. Makes no sense.

To me the fact that a wiikey that was a "clone" that looked very much like the current "originals" showing up a week before the offical launch of the "real" wiikey, is enough for me to think something is going on with wiikey or went on, weather it was an idea being stolen/code or a business deal that fell apart, and now they are calling clones on certain makes?? who know's they are sloppy, they have made NO announcement of the audio streaming bug and have made no formal announcment to fix it.

I still noticed you completely ignored this point for a second time:

I was one that got my chip (wiikey) when NO others (smaller dealers) had the wiikey in stock. I have an original based on the pictures on wiikey's site. So I don't believe your speculation.

I tried through a couple smaller places and got the run around. Sticking with the big sellers from now on.

I speculate that Divenio got more because they are huge compared to these foundmy.com type places. They probably do more volume so had a much LARGER order in for them then these other places that pre-sold. We have no idea the middle man that divineo used what quantity they purchased from the makers of wiikey, it might be 500x more then any of the smaller authorized resellers.

Like I said before I have NEVER been screwed by Divenio China and I would trust them before I trust the makers of the wiikey given there current standing. They have more to loose then wiikey does.

I will just leave this with we will all see what the deal is when the wiikey team releases some type of update in the future.

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 04:55 PM

Yeah, no use argueing back and forth. Neither of us will know the exact truth in the matter. So we should probably leave it there, that we agree to disagree.

11111

04-03-2007, 07:01 PM

at this point i personally agree with idunder posts. even if it's speculation his posts imo really fall into place (different manufacturer of chips, different makes) and if you've been keeping a very close eye on the modchips the past 6 years that all this could very well happen.

it's a shame that all the mods out there right now are still in the 'gamble' status. by that i mean we dont know at this point who is there in the end to stick with us with updates. for me personally it's still way early in the game to get a chip i usually do not get a chip this early.

i just hope that someone steps up support and keep it like that in the future like crystal chip team. they might ask for more but i'd gladly pay for support.

seanneko

04-03-2007, 07:25 PM

Our customers buys original chips because they expect premium quality, support, and performance.

Am I the only one who finds this hilarious? Anybody who thinks that a Wiikey (or any other modchip for that matter) is a "premium quality" product is kidding themselves. I'd be willing to bet that the clones are just as good.

The companies that make these things couldn't care less about quality, they're just out to make a profit. A Wiikey probably costs about 20 cents to manufacture.

And as somebody in another thread said, it's ironic how a company which condones and supports software piracy is complaining about how their product was copied...

Alucard77

04-03-2007, 07:31 PM

Well, I think the future of these chips will be with the free wii chips. But enough devs need to get behind one free chip. That I am surprised to say has not happened yet.

11111

04-03-2007, 07:36 PM

Well, I think the future of these chips will be with the free wii chips. But enough devs need to get behind one free chip. That I am surprised to say has not happened yet.

i actually agree with that. i think the future for it is also the free chips. i've noticed that alot more people view the homebrew chips alot more than any of the pay chips at any given time.

i havent kept track of the homebrew chips that much at all...but dont you need to keep changing the chip each time you want to do an upgrade?

EpochCT

04-03-2007, 10:44 PM

thecheekymonkey

04-04-2007, 07:03 AM

And as somebody in another thread said, it's ironic how a company which condones and supports software piracy is complaining about how their product was copied...

that was me, and yeah it is funny. Like i say, its probably just propaganda to make you keep buying the originals, rather than clones, but you cant be 100%.

If it is indeed the case where the update cannot differentiate between original / clone then a new version of wiikey will be coming soon, and support for the old one will take a nose dive no doubt.

11111

04-04-2007, 07:08 AM

that was me, and yeah it is funny. Like i say, its probably just propaganda to make you keep buying the originals, rather than clones, but you cant be 100%.

If it is indeed the case where the update cannot differentiate between original / clone then a new version of wiikey will be coming soon, and support for the old one will take a nose dive no doubt.

if they actually come out with a new version and ditch support for the old they'll be losing alot of money and will have more than enough people harrassing them that bought the old mods (which is alot of people).

on top of that if they go that route the new mods wont sell they will lose credibility. so i dont think they'll go that route.

idunder

04-04-2007, 10:50 AM

This is silly, why try so hard to deny it? Divineo was selling clones. It got busted. It lied. It got in the WiiKey official reseller list. It got busted again. It finally came clean and are now selling the clones separate from the original ones instead of blatantly ripping off the customer like the were.

These facts have nothing to do with the quality of the Wiikey, or how good and future proof the clones are. Divineo was deceiving people. idunder just wants to derail the thread because he once stated otherwise and has been proven wrong.

Please point me to the proof that Divenio "came clean" I was unaware of this proof you speak of.

So far what I know is fact is:

1. Divenio China sells wiikey
2. Around 5 people here claim here they received clones from DC. (MANY more claim they received originals)
3. Wiikey team adds DC as an official reseller for wiikey.
4. People post, say DC was legitimate etc etc..
5. Few days later DC now posts that you can buy clones of the wiikey from them.
6. Wiikey removes DC from offical reseller list.

Since I have read nowhere that Divineo China came clean on selling clones in place of orders for original wiikey's I don't see how anything points to Divineo China purposly "screwing" the customer.

Given that I have seen no PROOF that Divineo china came clean, I just assumed team wiikey then removed DC from their resellers list because they were NOW selling clones. (Which I don't blame them, when you can get 1000 for 7 bucks a piece currently) - They are a business.. They have no loyalty necesarily to the modchip makers. And this would obviously piss the wiikey maker off, even MORE so if they know the clones are 100% their orginal work.

Please EpochCT post this proof that they came clean. I completly missed that part.

thecheekymonkey

04-04-2007, 12:55 PM

Please point me to the proof that Divenio "came clean" I was unaware of this proof you speak of.

So far what I know is fact is:

1. Divenio China sells wiikey
2. Around 5 people here claim here they received clones from DC. (MANY more claim they received originals)
3. Wiikey team adds DC as an official reseller for wiikey.
4. People post, say DC was legitimate etc etc..
5. Few days later DC now posts that you can buy clones of the wiikey from them.
6. Wiikey removes DC from offical reseller list.

Since I have read nowhere that Divineo China came clean on selling clones in place of orders for original wiikey's I don't see how anything points to Divineo China purposly "screwing" the customer.

Given that I have seen no PROOF that Divineo china came clean, I just assumed team wiikey then removed DC from their resellers list because they were NOW selling clones. (Which I don't blame them, when you can get 1000 for 7 bucks a piece currently) - They are a business.. They have no loyalty necesarily to the modchip makers. And this would obviously piss the wiikey maker off, even MORE so if they know the clones are 100% their orginal work.

Please EpochCT post this proof that they came clean. I completly missed that part.

hate to say it, ive removed two for people who have bought from divineo, one even had the paper work in. The reason i removed them was they fitted them, bodged it slightly , realised they where fakes and wanted them removed and installing with real ones.

I have seen the paperwork.

end of the day only takes one person to get a clone passed off as an original , then think of how many people have fitted them without even checking.

seriously, end of the day, i`m not against clones, time will tell if they are true clones, but passing them off as originals is a piss take really. And divineo being a buisiness will have an obligation to replace all these chips if they do turn out to be non supported by the update.

logistical nightmare for them, and will end up costing them more than what they saved by buying originals in the first place.

Dont envy the going through that process.

idunder

04-04-2007, 02:16 PM

hate to say it, ive removed two for people who have bought from divineo, one even had the paper work in. The reason i removed them was they fitted them, bodged it slightly , realised they where fakes and wanted them removed and installing with real ones.

I have seen the paperwork.

end of the day only takes one person to get a clone passed off as an original , then think of how many people have fitted them without even checking.

seriously, end of the day, i`m not against clones, time will tell if they are true clones, but passing them off as originals is a piss take really. And divineo being a buisiness will have an obligation to replace all these chips if they do turn out to be non supported by the update.

logistical nightmare for them, and will end up costing them more than what they saved by buying originals in the first place.

Dont envy the going through that process.

I don't doubt there are some clones from DV out there, like I said before I have read of 5 users that posted they had gotten them here. So there are some users. Many more that did not though, so it's hard to get an idea to how many "clones" went out.

I just don't think Divineo China purposly did this as some have been pushing.

Just the fact that the wiikey maker has so many different lines of the same chip and Divineo does so much business leaves a posibility of error where they could have sold some from a different distributer without knowing.

I really wish the wiikey makers would just hurry up an issue an update. Then the clone issue is moot. (to me if they update fine) They are probably loosing new customers the longer they wait.

Who would someone buy a wiikey today?

They can buy a different chip without the bugs or make their own.

Robotron

04-04-2007, 02:37 PM

I hear what you are saying cravavr3.

foundmy really doesn't reply to e-mails. Even when making a large purchase it's hard to get a reply. Divineo at least replies and so far their service for me has been excellent, but I would still want an official mod so I know the updates work.

This whole thing is so messy. Hope it gets cleared up soon.

Alucard77

04-04-2007, 03:00 PM

I had no real problems with Foundmy. I thought they took a little while to get the chip to me, but that was because I was comparing them to other companies. (Some of which passed off fakes as originals.)

If you want to contact them, call them directly. Their number is posted if you log in and go to contact us. If you are not logged in, there is no number for the contact.

idunder

04-04-2007, 03:00 PM

thecheekymonkey

04-04-2007, 07:49 PM

whichever way you look at it, divineo have tried to pass off a product which is not endorsed by wiikey as wikkey endorsed product.

regardless, bad buisiness, and i would guess a hell of a lot more than five have been had by this.

sure this all depends on wether or not these clones are some how defective etc etc etc.

still doesnt detract from the fact that divineo and all its little sister companys are trying it on. and have got away with it.

lets see what happens if this update wont work on clones, and see how many chips divineo replace or refunds are given.

;)

idunder

04-06-2007, 08:36 PM

Still waiting Epoch for the proof that Divineo came clean that they sold clones as original wiikey's on purpose.

Viewsat

04-07-2007, 01:45 PM

idunder

04-07-2007, 02:17 PM

They never came clean but there were plenty of posts here and on other boards even chinagba from people who received clone wiikey from divineo.cn These users are going to be very disappointed when the update comes out because word is already spreading in China that wiikey have will block the update from working on clone chip and many are replacing their clone with original.

I thought they never came clean, but Epoch believes they did so I was hoping he would site his proof..

There were a total of 5 in the thread here on the clones from Divineo China. That does not really seem like "plenty"

Watching other forums I saw maybe 5-8 claims. Not sure about chinagba.

I don't doubt there were some clones sold, I have just been saying that maybe at that time Divineo China did not know they were clones.

They do now sell clones openly, which in itself does not mean anything. They sell mods, why should they not sell a cheaper version of the wiikey. They are not in some type of exclusive relationship with the wiikey makers, this is business..

Well time will tell for the update, any clone that is a true clone. And not a poor knock off will update fine. That is sort of the definition of clone, it's an identical copy. Identical means Identical, not half right. That is more for the term knock off I believe. Speculation that an update won't work is just FUD until the update is released.

Just the fact that a "clone" of the wiikey was around before the official wiikey was released truly leads me to believe the company had a falling out or something and multiple people there had the source to the chip and design and were producing the chip and board at the same time. (Hence why the market was flooded with both clones and "originals" at and shortly after release) I know it's speculation, but there is allot of circumstantial evidence out there to support something along those lines.

sensesfail958

04-07-2007, 05:27 PM

I thought they never came clean, but Epoch believes they did so I was hoping he would site his proof..

There were a total of 5 in the thread here on the clones from Divineo China. That does not really seem like "plenty"

Watching other forums I saw maybe 5-8 claims. Not sure about chinagba.

I don't doubt there were some clones sold, I have just been saying that maybe at that time Divineo China did not know they were clones.

They do now sell clones openly, which in itself does not mean anything. They sell mods, why should they not sell a cheaper version of the wiikey. They are not in some type of exclusive relationship with the wiikey makers, this is business..

Well time will tell for the update, any clone that is a true clone. And not a poor knock off will update fine. That is sort of the definition of clone, it's an identical copy. Identical means Identical, not half right. That is more for the term knock off I believe. Speculation that an update won't work is just FUD until the update is released.

Just the fact that a "clone" of the wiikey was around before the official wiikey was released truly leads me to believe the company had a falling out or something and multiple people there had the source to the chip and design and were producing the chip and board at the same time. (Hence why the market was flooded with both clones and "originals" at and shortly after release) I know it's speculation, but there is allot of circumstantial evidence out there to support something along those lines.

funny, calling out for proof when you yourself just keep saying the wiikey clone conspiracy verbatim without proof. I'm sure I've seen more than "5" posts regarding clones from divineo. Seems like I can't find them anymore for some reason.... delete?

Alucard77

04-07-2007, 07:44 PM

This is primed for a close thread. It doesn't matter what anyone says it will go back and forth.

All that needs to be said for people reading this, is Divineo was dropped from the official reseller list for the wiikey. It is your decision now if you want to buy a modchip from a place that is not endorsed by the modchip maker.

That's all, can this be closed?

*StoneCold*

04-07-2007, 08:11 PM

Alucard77

04-07-2007, 08:13 PM

Its not your thread

I realize that, but can you state a single thing that has gone on here besides the same 4 posts over and over again. What good is this post staying opened?

idunder

04-07-2007, 10:47 PM

funny, calling out for proof when you yourself just keep saying the wiikey clone conspiracy verbatim without proof. I'm sure I've seen more than "5" posts regarding clones from divineo. Seems like I can't find them anymore for some reason.... delete?

I was calling out for proof from a specific person (EpochGT) because he said "they came clean on it" - Meaning Divineo China, why don't you read before commenting?

As for the posts regarding clones, count them yourself. I did, and I have been keeping my eyes open, the mods here do not delete many posts. And some really do merit being deleted.

EpochCT

04-08-2007, 11:49 AM

EpochCT, and I was writing something fierce, but my PC rebooted and I forgot what it was. So I guess you're right then. Divineo has always been upfront about their business practices, and they've never sold clones as originals (people who claim otherwise just are imagining things). Or something.

BentZero

04-15-2007, 12:55 PM

Just got my WiiKey from Divineo. It's not a clone.

ASSPOP

04-15-2007, 01:19 PM

Just got my WiiKey from Divineo. It's not a clone.

well LUCKY! YOU!. That doesn't mean they were not doing some gay **** earlier.:rolleyes:

newdslr

04-15-2007, 02:14 PM

anyone want offivial wiikey, please messages me.

FoxForceFive

04-15-2007, 02:38 PM

I've ordered mine for $10.99 inc shipping from Kaidomain.

That's £5.71 FFS! I'm positive it'll be a clone, but let's face it, worst comes to worst & it really doesnt update, I'll replace it with a real one (I'm doing a wire install, obv!)

If it does, I've saved myself £20. If not I've wasted under £6.

Maths work out dont they?

And as for this, 'supporting the original manufacturer' nonsense, they're encouraging/enabling piracy, & making money from it, which takes money from games developers, yet throwing their toys out of the pram when it happens to them, hypocrisy at it's finest.

ChiGGz

04-15-2007, 11:47 PM

And as for this, 'supporting the original manufacturer' nonsense, they're encouraging/enabling piracy, & making money from it, which takes money from games developers, yet throwing their toys out of the pram when it happens to them, hypocrisy at it's finest.

I guess it's kind of like "Honor among thieves"

Let's put it this way, hackers and piracy has been going on forever now. Ya software developers lose out but they still probably driving around in their ferraris.

I see mod chip developers more like independent artists who are hit more directly by piracy than bigger corps. Steal their stuff, and it's more of a direct hit in their pockets, what's to encourage them to develop for the future when they know it will get ripped?

Again, Corporate piracy vs Stealing from small timers. Which would hurt more

idunder

04-16-2007, 11:36 AM

I guess it's kind of like "Honor among thieves"

Let's put it this way, hackers and piracy has been going on forever now. Ya software developers lose out but they still probably driving around in their ferraris.

I see mod chip developers more like independent artists who are hit more directly by piracy than bigger corps. Steal their stuff, and it's more of a direct hit in their pockets, what's to encourage them to develop for the future when they know it will get ripped?

Again, Corporate piracy vs Stealing from small timers. Which would hurt more

I think it's that there is NO honor among thieves. Given they both are thieves. Which makes sense.

Stealing is stealing. It's how we justify it. You have found what makes you happy.

What is funny with this is that the "clones" of the wiikey might be original anyhow. (In the sense that it orginated from the same designer)

Remember a "clone" of the wiikey was available for sale before the real wiikey hit the market. (That looked and acted like the current wiikeys)

numms

04-16-2007, 01:19 PM

This whole debate is kind of amuzing to me. Seeing everyone go back and forth and really making no ground either way. Given the facts so far, it appears as though idunder has some really good points that seem to be overlooked and dismissed so that others can crucify Divineo over this whole fiasco. Here's another question that I don't know has been given proper consideration... Is it possible that divineo.can or divineo.com could have been selling clones and there's confusion between those sites and divineo.cn? It is possible that some of their other country sites were selling the clones, and those claiming that divineo sent them clones are pointing to the wrong site? I know that this is a small technicality, but it's possible that when business is being done from several different sites, they may get their stock from many different vendors. Frankly, this whole situation doesn't really concern me, hell, I bought a cyclowiz. My only concern is when they'll get that DVD update out... wait, nevermind. I did buy my chip from divineo (took about a week) and have no complaints. I've not bought any other mod chips or anything else in the past, but from my understanding, the company has been around for some time, why would they risk all this negative publicity to make a few more dollars?

PS: I, too, love the irony in a company who makes chips essentially to rip off developers has their chip ripped off by someone else. I think the only way that could be ANY MORE ironic was if the software developers were the ones that stole the code from them and released the chip.

*Edit* - One more sidenote: I think going along the lines of idunder's thinking, say wiikey has a falling out with a manufacturing company they had already contracted to make chips with. What's to stop the manufacturing company from using the chips they've already produced and releasing them into the market as wii keys?? In this case, the chips will act NO differently making them TRUE clones, indistinguishable from originals (only the markings on the board are different).