Microsoft on Motion Sensing - Been there, Done that

[Zeus]

An MS rep has said that Microsoft have previously worked with motion sensing technology in the Freestyle Pro controller and did not rule out its further inclusion for the Xbox 360, should there be a clear demand from gamers for it to be put into the system.


This comes as no surprise. When motion sensing technology for the Wii was first announced, it received a lot of scepticism. However, McLean didn't rule out Microsoft's inclusion in the motion sensing technology scene with the Xbox 360. "I don’t know that we’d ever say never, but what I would say is that at the moment, based on our experience in the past, we thought there wasn’t demand for it to be really put into the system."


News Source: <A href="http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=5936" target="_blank">Palgn.com.au</a>

[MadonnaProject]

but of course, and at the end of the day there is simply NO substitute for the tried and tested and PERFECTED (to some extent) traditional controls, in the same manner that the mouse and keyboard is STILL the best way to play stratey and fps games.

[msanchez]

Well gaming companies can't take a "if it's not broken don't try to fix it" attitude, as stupid as biased people may find this new inventions, they are a necessity for the gaming industry to keep moving forward. The wii's control seems pretty fun to wave around, and the ps3s could be pretty cool for racing, flight sims and other games, MS would be stupid not to adopt these ideas if they prove to be worthwhile.
Different people have different prefrences, I for one can't play FPS with a regular mouse, if I don't have a trackball I rather not play because I feel my movements are clumsier with a mouse then with a trackball.

[CZroe]

This is the second or third time MaxConsole has posted this news. Are they being paid to dredge this stuff back when it is most appropriate to sling mud at MS' competitors?

The Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro is the most broken gamepad I have ever owned. First of all, you can't set the digital axis functions for many games because the tilt sensitivity keeps being detected as the axis you want. Second, it's TILT sensitive, not "motion sensing." There is a huge, gigantic, enormous, difference. To even suggest that they are comparable is preposterous and laughable! Microsoft's "Ball in cage" method is lightyears behind the MEMS gyros in use today's PS3 and Wii controllers. In addition, the Wii's ability to detect orientation in relation to the sensor bar for pointer functionality is a mind-blowing feat. The "camera" on the controller has to be able to see and track the sensor bar LED grid in real time and do it fast enough to translate to on-screen action with no perceptible lag.

OH! And third: Don't even try to program it for something ZSNES. Even after you set the configuration manually by editing a configuration/INI file to get around the tilt problem, you can't walk and run due to the shitty almost sideways D-Pad. Not only does it not have distinct up & down parts, but they skewed it as if your thumb didn't know which way was up from a comfortable sideways grip. Then, they made it impossible to press one direction without other directions being pushed simultaneously. Mario will be stopping, sliding, squatting, looking up, etc all while you are just tring to F--king walk forward. If Microsoft couldn't get BASIC ESTABLISHED DIGITAL CONTROLS right (standard before dual-analog), how could they have been "pioneering" anything?

[Scorpion3]

This is the second or third time MaxConsole has posted this news. Are they being paid to dredge this stuff back when it is most appropriate to sling mud at MS' competitors?

The Microsoft Sidewinder Freestyle Pro is the most broken gamepad I have ever owned. First of all, you can't set the digital axis functions for many games because the tilt sensitivity keeps being detected as the axis you want. Second, it's TILT sensitive, not "motion sensing." There is a huge, gigantic, enormous, difference. To even suggest that they are comparable is preposterous and laughable! Microsoft's "Ball in cage" method is lightyears behind the MEMS gyros in use today's PS3 and Wii controllers. In addition, the Wii's ability to detect orientation in relation to the sensor bar for pointer functionality is a mind-blowing feat. The "camera" on the controller has to be able to see and track the sensor bar LED grid in real time and do it fast enough to translate to on-screen action with no perceptible lag.

OH! And third: Don't even try to program it for something ZSNES. Even after you set the configuration manually by editing a configuration/INI file to get around the tilt problem, you can't walk and run due to the shitty almost sideways D-Pad. Not only does it not have distinct up & down parts, but they skewed it as if your thumb didn't know which way was up from a comfortable sideways grip. Then, they made it impossible to press one direction without other directions being pushed simultaneously. Mario will be stopping, sliding, squatting, looking up, etc all while you are just tring to F--king walk forward. If Microsoft couldn't get BASIC ESTABLISHED DIGITAL CONTROLS right (standard before dual-analog), how could they have been "pioneering" anything?

And the second time I've had to say to you...if you don't like the news, DO NOT POST. :rolleyes: I know you're some Nintendo Fanboy (Or so it seems), but dood, just let it go. Nintendo and Microsoft are basicly partners anymore lol, I think this was more so a shot at Sony's "Rip" of the Wii controller. Though, I agree...it'd be stupid to not use the motion sensoring, but they should only make a few games for the controller I think. Every game using it would suck, and besides, I would absolutely HATE to lose rumble. As for tilt sensative to motion sensing...probably. But the PS3's controller is just tilt sensative as well,

[msanchez]

...I would absolutely HATE to lose rumble. ....
Well MS doesn't need to lose rumble to add motion sensing... LOL seems hearing kaz say it enough times got you unconsciously believing it.... OOOOH mind control. I agree with you about not all games using it though, if this happens for the wii, it might get old pretty quick since sometimes you just want to chill, in all honesty the only way I see the wii-mote better then a regular control is for party like games, when I'm by myself I don't think I would like the idea of having to move my arms around...... then again I rarely ever play video games alone.

[CZroe]

And the second time I've had to say to you...if you don't like the news, DO NOT POST. :rolleyes: I know you're some Nintendo Fanboy (Or so it seems), but dood, just let it go. Nintendo and Microsoft are basicly partners anymore lol, I think this was more so a shot at Sony's "Rip" of the Wii controller. Though, I agree...it'd be stupid to not use the motion sensoring, but they should only make a few games for the controller I think. Every game using it would suck, and besides, I would absolutely HATE to lose rumble. As for tilt sensative to motion sensing...probably. But the PS3's controller is just tilt sensative as well,

I know you're trying to be friendly or funny, but I genuinely take offense. What the hell are you talking about? If I don't like the news, don't post. OK, http://www.maxconsole.net/assets/gfx/button_discuss_in_forums.gif WTF do you think this means? I guess "discuss" means "come in and say 'I agree' while contributing absolutely nothing." And just what should I "let what go?" This is at least the second time MaxConsole has entertained this misleading bit of misinformation, and if ANYONE is going to dispute it to keep it from resurfacing until the end of time, it may as well be me.

This MS comment was originally posted so long ago that I do not believe we knew about Sony's motion sensitivity back then, so it probably was more of a stab at Nintendo than Sony. Also, everyone knows that Sony is lying about removing the vibration feedback. Immersion and Nintendo and common sense can attest to that. What retard thinks that a game developer would trigger rumble while accepting motion input if it caused a problem? That's why Sony's assertion is ridiculous even if they interfere with eachother. So few games will significantly utilize motion input that they would actually nix motion input in favor of force feedback if they could, demonstrating that their relationship with Immersion is the true reason.

And no, the PS3 has the same exact motion sensing capabilities as the Nintendo Wii. It only lacks the proper form-factor and the pointer function. The Wii makes good use of the pointer function in menus, first-person shooters, etc, but it's rarely used elsewhere (Zelda only uses it to aim certain weapons for instance). THe PS3 pad will be able to do the same (sensing travel through eight degrees and two axes of rotation. A tilt sensor may also be used to determine absolute-down.

Now, fanboy you say? I own a God-damned managerie of game consoles. Unlike Retrotard, I could whip a camera around my barn then YouTube it to show that I have everything he claimed to have and more (MULTIPLE N64 backup devices for instance). My "loft" really is a loft (it's a barn, so, you know, "hay loft"), and not a picture of some Canadian Internet celebrity's basement that I tried to pass off as my own (pointing to you again Retroboy). The stuff up there really is so volumous that it's crammed in boxes and inaccessible. Fortunately, the down-stairs is all the credibility I'd ever need. My favorable opinion of Nintendo comes from a direct comparison TO everything else, not blindly ignoring everything else. Understand this: When it comes to making an informed contribution, my word means something. Don't just come in here and dismiss it like YOU have something better to contribute unless you really do.

Did you even notice that I actually own and have owned the Freestyle Pro all along? Did you notice that I had valid critiques from 1998? I never even mentioned the problem with it not being centered which couldn't be fixed with calibration. I have a vast collection of PC game controllers including every Sidewinder pad, wheel, stick, and hybrid (Strategic Commander, Dual Strike, etc) ever made as well as obscure snowboard controllers and even a "Nintendo 3D1 Joystick" for IBM PCs. My Pentium III Katami PC fried when I popped the MS Sidewinder Freestyle Pro into my MS Internet Keyboard Pro USB hub (probably triggered a problem with a bad power supply). I've still got the fried Asus P2B slot 1 motherboard hanging up on my wall (it's a legendary board) and the freid Voodoo 3 3000 AGP + TV Out boxed in the loft above me.

Oh, and since this is the "second time" you've told such a knowledgeable person to shut up (honestly, I can't find and don't remember the first), I'd advise you to follow your own advice: IF you don't like what I have to say[ and have nothing to contribute or dispute], DON'T MAEK WIITH TEH POASTING.

And one more thing... I'm not too enamored with Nintendo right now either. My Wii does not work (FURIOUS) and there are no component cables in sight. Both of my DS lites have hinge cracks (one has BOTH types). They never admitted the very-real GBmicro delay last year and I paid too much for it when it finally did trickle into ONE retailer several days later. They refused to exchange my GCN for a Component-capable model as first promised even though I bought the cables (my first GCN was burglarized with my first set of Component cables). I couldn't get through to customer support until after hours regarding my fried Nintendo Wii even though they should have increased staff for a launch like this. I guess it wouldn't help make my point but I'll mention anyway that I've had their support number memorized since I was a kid and I had no phone (I place my toll-free 1-800 calls from a pay phone). ;) I actually hate Nintendo more than their typical fan. They silently canceled Nintendo Puzzle Collection, SMB3-e cards and Game & Watch-e Cards after locking away functionality that requires them. This goes all the way back to going through a huge number of N64 thumbsticks, three Virtual Boy stands, six Gameboy Pocket AC adapters, bad NES cartridge connectors, worn out NES controller button pads, and multiple shorting NES AC adapters (much of this was by design). Screw Nintendo.

Even if MS is taking a stab at Nintendo, you'll notice that I said "their competitors" and went on to mention Sony and Nintendo nearly equally in comparison to the Freestyle Pro. Also, I find it interesting that the Freestyle Pro had no force feedback. ;)

Well MS doesn't need to lose rumble to add motion sensing... LOL seems hearing kaz say it enough times got you unconsciously believing it.... OOOOH mind control. I agree with you about not all games using it though, if this happens for the wii, it might get old pretty quick since sometimes you just want to chill, in all honesty the only way I see the wii-mote better then a regular control is for party like games, when I'm by myself I don't think I would like the idea of having to move my arms around...... then again I rarely ever play video games alone.

It was a pretty stupid statement in the first place. Everyone knows that controllers only rumble when the game tells them to. Why would the game tell the controller to rumble if there would be a problem with it interferring with the tilt sensitivity? It simply wouldn't. Due to the fact that not every game uses tilt functions and those that do use it sparingly enough to put rumble everywhere else. eg, tilt your airborne vehicle for balance (not steering) to nail a perfect landing. Stop accepting tilt input after landing and trigger a force feedback effect. Use FF as usual until the vehicle goes airborne again.

[msanchez]

AAAWW, the good ol' days when I used to take apart like 3 NES controllers every 2 days LOL! I remember one time I loaned this one a$$ my ninja gaiden II and the guy thought he was slick and pulled a switch-a-roo on me, took out the board from my cart and put in some board that he messed up and told me that my game wasn't working, but little did he know that I had taken apart all my carts and initialed the boards...... (I had a copy of Zelda that didn't save so after exchanging the battery I decided to open up all my carts and intial them.... I just wanted to open them up).

OH and I didn't follow everything you said but I agree sidewinder controllers SUCK, I've had a gamepad, and a joystick... unless I've been so unlucky that I got 2 messed up items, I doubt that I'm too dumb to get 'em working properly since I have done so with every other controller I've had, but for the life of me I could never calibrate that damn joystick and the gamepad I don't remember the details exactly I just remember I hated it with a passion.

[Scorpion3]

I know you're trying to be friendly or funny, but I genuinely take offense. What the hell are you talking about? If I don't like the news, don't post. OK, http://www.maxconsole.net/assets/gfx/button_discuss_in_forums.gif WTF do you think this means? I guess "discuss" means "come in and say 'I agree' while contributing absolutely nothing." And just what should I "let what go?" This is at least the second time MaxConsole has entertained this misleading bit of misinformation, and if ANYONE is going to dispute it to keep it from resurfacing until the end of time, it may as well be me.

This MS comment was originally posted so long ago that I do not believe we knew about Sony's motion sensitivity back then, so it probably was more of a stab at Nintendo than Sony. Also, everyone knows that Sony is lying about removing the vibration feedback. Immersion and Nintendo and common sense can attest to that. What retard thinks that a game developer would trigger rumble while accepting motion input if it caused a problem? That's why Sony's assertion is ridiculous even if they interfere with eachother. So few games will significantly utilize motion input that they would actually nix motion input in favor of force feedback if they could, demonstrating that their relationship with Immersion is the true reason.

And no, the PS3 has the same exact motion sensing capabilities as the Nintendo Wii. It only lacks the proper form-factor and the pointer function. The Wii makes good use of the pointer function in menus, first-person shooters, etc, but it's rarely used elsewhere (Zelda only uses it to aim certain weapons for instance). THe PS3 pad will be able to do the same (sensing travel through eight degrees and two axes of rotation. A tilt sensor may also be used to determine absolute-down.

Now, fanboy you say? I own a God-damned managerie of game consoles. Unlike Retrotard, I could whip a camera around my barn then YouTube it to show that I have everything he claimed to have and more (MULTIPLE N64 backup devices for instance). My "loft" really is a loft (it's a barn, so, you know, "hay loft"), and not a picture of some Canadian Internet celebrity's basement that I tried to pass off as my own (pointing to you again Retroboy). The stuff up there really is so volumous that it's crammed in boxes and inaccessible. Fortunately, the down-stairs is all the credibility I'd ever need. My favorable opinion of Nintendo comes from a direct comparison TO everything else, not blindly ignoring everything else. Understand this: When it comes to making an informed contribution, my word means something. Don't just come in here and dismiss it like YOU have something better to contribute unless you really do.

Did you even notice that I actually own and have owned the Freestyle Pro all along? Did you notice that I had valid critiques from 1998? I never even mentioned the problem with it not being centered which couldn't be fixed with calibration. I have a vast collection of PC game controllers including every Sidewinder pad, wheel, stick, and hybrid (Strategic Commander, Dual Strike, etc) ever made as well as obscure snowboard controllers and even a "Nintendo 3D1 Joystick" for IBM PCs. My Pentium III Katami PC fried when I popped the MS Sidewinder Freestyle Pro into my MS Internet Keyboard Pro USB hub (probably triggered a problem with a bad power supply). I've still got the fried Asus P2B slot 1 motherboard hanging up on my wall (it's a legendary board) and the freid Voodoo 3 3000 AGP + TV Out boxed in the loft above me.

Oh, and since this is the "second time" you've told such a knowledgeable person to shut up (honestly, I can't find and don't remember the first), I'd advise you to follow your own advice: IF you don't like what I have to say[ and have nothing to contribute or dispute], DON'T MAEK WIITH TEH POASTING.

And one more thing... I'm not too enamored with Nintendo right now either. My Wii does not work (FURIOUS) and there are no component cables in sight. Both of my DS lites have hinge cracks (one has BOTH types). They never admitted the very-real GBmicro delay last year and I paid too much for it when it finally did trickle into ONE retailer several days later. They refused to exchange my GCN for a Component-capable model as first promised even though I bought the cables (my first GCN was burglarized with my first set of Component cables). I couldn't get through to customer support until after hours regarding my fried Nintendo Wii even though they should have increased staff for a launch like this. I guess it wouldn't help make my point but I'll mention anyway that I've had their support number memorized since I was a kid and I had no phone (I place my toll-free 1-800 calls from a pay phone). ;) I actually hate Nintendo more than their typical fan. They silently canceled Nintendo Puzzle Collection, SMB3-e cards and Game & Watch-e Cards after locking away functionality that requires them. This goes all the way back to going through a huge number of N64 thumbsticks, three Virtual Boy stands, six Gameboy Pocket AC adapters, bad NES cartridge connectors, worn out NES controller button pads, and multiple shorting NES AC adapters (much of this was by design). Screw Nintendo.

Even if MS is taking a stab at Nintendo, you'll notice that I said "their competitors" and went on to mention Sony and Nintendo nearly equally in comparison to the Freestyle Pro. Also, I find it interesting that the Freestyle Pro had no force feedback. ;)



It was a pretty stupid statement in the first place. Everyone knows that controllers only rumble when the game tells them to. Why would the game tell the controller to rumble if there would be a problem with it interferring with the tilt sensitivity? It simply wouldn't. Due to the fact that not every game uses tilt functions and those that do use it sparingly enough to put rumble everywhere else. eg, tilt your airborne vehicle for balance (not steering) to nail a perfect landing. Stop accepting tilt input after landing and trigger a force feedback effect. Use FF as usual until the vehicle goes airborne again.

Rofl...Settle down :rolleyes:. What I meant was is it really necissary to say "This isn't news! You suckorz Zeus! You Dumbass!" or do you just want to make yourself look like an asshole? He does a **** load around here, and anyone that's ran a forum would know this. He doesn't post news for you, he does it for those who aren't stupid enough to go into the subjects just to put them down.

AAAWW, the good ol' days when I used to take apart like 3 NES controllers every 2 days LOL! I remember one time I loaned this one a$$ my ninja gaiden II and the guy thought he was slick and pulled a switch-a-roo on me, took out the board from my cart and put in some board that he messed up and told me that my game wasn't working, but little did he know that I had taken apart all my carts and initialed the boards...... (I had a copy of Zelda that didn't save so after exchanging the battery I decided to open up all my carts and intial them.... I just wanted to open them up).

OH and I didn't follow everything you said but I agree sidewinder controllers SUCK, I've had a gamepad, and a joystick... unless I've been so unlucky that I got 2 messed up items, I doubt that I'm too dumb to get 'em working properly since I have done so with every other controller I've had, but for the life of me I could never calibrate that damn joystick and the gamepad I don't remember the details exactly I just remember I hated it with a passion.

lol. I did the same thing with my Genesis. Anyway, I didn't follow all he said either, he didn't really stay on one topic. But same here, any PC joypad MS has ever made blows, or would it be blew? *Shrugs* But I just quoted you to say that you get what I have been saying. The Wii is great as far as a console, and Mario Party will probably blow into mainstream games like for Middle Aged parents putting together a game night, but for the hardcore gamers, sometimes we come home from work, or just want to chill with friends and sit down to play. If the Wiimote is all that the Wii gets, I'm afraid it's going to burn out quickly.