EXCLUSIVE: Wii Know A lot You Don’t- Nintendo Wii Secrets Explored!

[Zeus]

So far Nintendo have done a very credible job in keeping information regarding the Wii to a minimum. Well all that has just changed! An anonymous Wii developer has sent to us slurry of information regarding Nintendo’s next-gen console, all that’s left now is a confirmed release date and price to complete the puzzle. Believe us when we say, this article is a MUST READ, you won’t be disappointed. Prepare to get educated…

<center><img src="http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/wiiknowevery.jpg"></center></a>

Wii Know A Lot You Don’t... but will – Enjoy!

Anyway, we've done enough talking thus far, prepare your eyes for a textual feast on the joys to behold with the Wii.

The Wii Hardware

- Nintendo Wii’s ‘Broadway’ CPU operates at 729MHZ with a maximum bandwith of 1.9gbyte/sec.
- Nintendo Wii’s ‘HollyWood’ GPU is clocked at 243MHZ, the internal memory of it includes 3mb of embedded graphics memory and 24megabytes of high speed main memory.
- 64megabytes of GDDR3 (MEM2) as the external main memory. Just like the internal memory, it can be accessed from the CPU and GPU with a maximum bandwidth of 4gbytes/sec and can also store programs in the MEM2.
- The GPU of the Wii is identical to the GC’s but it is on average 1.5X faster.

Wii's Optical Disc Drive

- Opitcal Disc Drive (ODD) supports single and dual layer Wii disks, discs eject with software or button and the maximum read speed is the equivalent of DVDx6.
- Two main disc types supported the single sided 12cm single sided 4.7gb and the double sided 8.51 GB. Nintendo GC discs also supported. Some of the capacity of the discs are used by the system and games can not use full disc space.
- Inserting a disc will start the Wii console, even if it was already in an off state. Pressing the eject button will change the console to an on state to take out the disc also.

General Overview

- An optional wired LAN adapter that connects to a USB port is in the pipeline for users who do not possess a wireless LAN set-up currently.
- Internal non-removable 512MB flash memory used to storage game save data and downloadable content thus eliminating the need for a memory card.
- Both Wii discs and Gamecube discs can be played via an intelligent mode swap. When running in GC mode, the Wii’s CPU and GPU will lower to the respective speeds of the GC and some of the MEM2 functions as ARAM.
- Software development environment is an upgrade to the ‘Dolphin SDK’ used with the GC; the same libraries are used so developers can get up to scratch easily as well as the possibility of ports being easier.
- The following interfaces are included with the Wii; SD card slot, Wireless controller, two USB 2.0 ports, wireless LAN, 4x GC controller ports, 2x GC memory card slots and an AV multi output jack (only an analog jack).
- Supports Wii disks (one sided 12cm) and GC discs (one sided 8cm) and console auto switches depends on what disk is inserted
- More than just the Nunchaku is planned as an extension. GC peripherals such as DK bongos can be used in both Wii and GC modes.
- Three power status, on, off and unplugged. To prevent mistaken turn offs, the power button must be held for about a second.

The Wii Control System

- The Wii controller features; Direct Pointing Device, Three axis accelerometer, Wii power button (remotely turn console on/off), buttons, wireless connectivity, indicator LED’s, rumble, battery powered (two AA alkaline batteries) and ability to connect extension unit.
- The Wii controller supports three types of operations; by itself, with a nunchuk extension or with a classic controller. Classic controllers will ship to developers during August 2006.
- The SYNCHRO button on the Wii controller exchanges wireless ID numbers when pressed at the same time as SYNCRHO on the Wii console. Wireless communications are only possible with consoles which have been authenticated.
- The rumble motor can be turned on and off and the intensity can be changed.
- The Wii remote has a pointer for fine movements as well as a motion sensor +/- 3.4G suitable for larger body movements, the nunchuk attachment has a sensor of +/- 2G
- The sensor bar must be placed above or below a TV set, the pointer measures coordinates between the ends of the bar which are about 20cm apart.
- The Wii remote has four status, disconnected, communicating, establishing connection and pairing wait status.
- The pointer can measure co-ordinates within bounds of rectangle centered upon the sensor bar, thus it can also measure points beyond the screen. It also responds to strong light sources, windows, fluorescent lamps, fireplaces, mirrors etc.
- Due to players hands shaking while holding the controller, a ring buffer allows a precise direction to be created to hold and average accelerator samples.

Thanks 'TheGuy' for the info!

Big shoutout must go out to the 'TheGuy' for this info!

[thePANICHIOteam]

Finally some info. Nice to see how the backwards compatability is handled. The hardware spec is pretty crap. It doesnt even run at 1Ghz.

The GPU is only 1.5x faster and it uses the original GC cpu. why?
:confused:

[Cyphix]

..
The GPU is only 1.5x faster and it uses the original GC cpu. why?
:confused:

Why not?

[thePANICHIOteam]

..

Why not?

Theyre selling the same thing twice? Its meant to be next gen. Why not make it better? Why not invest in some hardware development?

The GC GPU wasnt so incredible that it couldnt be improved upon. It was far from perfect. I would rather pay $100 more for the wii and get an all round console.

Really the wii is essentially a passive medium between the motion sensing controller and the TV. It doesnt really do anything. I'd rather pay for a GC and buy the motion sensing controllers.

Theyve been boasting it will be under $250, inferior quality hardware is the reason. You get what you pay for.

I really want to put the wii through its paces because at the moment i cant really see what all the fuss is about. Surely it cant just be a motion sensing controller? Its seem less and less like a console. More and more like a toy. Maybe a fun toy, but still a toy.

Nice controller, crap console.

[tashmeister]

HAHA my thoughts exactly, if i wanted graphics id get a pc, tht would blow away your gay ps3 and very gay xcrap 470.

All i can say is long live nintendo!!! this is exactly, what this gen needs, and will tie us over untill we "ALL" have HD-TV's in 5 years time, by then hopefully nintendo, will have another amazing idea like this for sony to copy!

[daps83777]

i don't find this to be very realistic. on the official nintendo site these specs were spotted for a short period of time and the deleted, but not before a few websites found them, i sent the story to maxconsole but it didn't get posted, it seems like this site is anti nintendo alot of times, stories i give that make sony look good get posted, anything bad about sony or good for nintendo rarely does. i guess maybe just doesn't think they are relevent for some reason, anyway these are part of the Wii specs that were on nintendo's website:

final hardware spec was Broadway at around 1.5GHz and Hollywood at 555MHz

this was also on the site

"IBM and ATI have been working on Broadway and Hollywood for quite some time now. And according to many people Wii’s specs could go up or down at this point in the CPU/VPU departments. Apparently Nintendo has spent quite a lot of money having IBM and ATI fabricate many iterations of Broadway and Hollywood. Which range from a 3.4GHz-730MHz Broadway CPUs, and 1.2GHz-553MHz custom ATI/Nintendo Hollywood VPU. From what we hear Hollywood is key to the Wii’s power. The architecture is all about eliminating bottlenecks and maximizing performance, upgrade of the CPU with the slight downgrade of the graphics processor compliments this philosophy, striking a great balance for Wii."

source http://www.2amupdate.com/readarticle.php?article_id=3

[Phil2000]

If this is true, I am a little dissapointed at the wii. I was expecting the spec to be a little better. I just hope the price is $199 or less or else it will be a while before I get the wii. :(

[Prachanda]

Yeah, those specs are really, really dissappointing. Innovation is no excuse for abandoning hardware improvement. I was hoping the processor would be AT LEAST 1.5GHz.... That CPU is even slower than the first xbox!!!

[Prachanda]

Zeus, how credible is your source?

[tashmeister]

Nice controller, crap console.

Ok Ok well when i play crysis, on my new conroe rig, later this year...man, mabey same time ps3 is launched, should i start sayin xcrap and ps3 are even more rubbish cos they have crap hardware compared to my pc, and evenmore so the fact there controllers are plain ol bog standard?

Graphics on tv's mean nothin this gen anyway, 80% of peeps still have a crt tv no hd-tv, in 5 years time when thts 90% in favour of hd-tv, mabey we could slag nintendo off, but they know the game, and imo, have it spot on.

Resident evil 4 gamecube...amazing as well, greta for developers, to prolong the same hardware tht they already know how to fully utilise :)

[thePANICHIOteam]

i don't find this to be very realistic. on the official nintendo site these specs were spotted for a short period of time and the deleted, but not before a few websites found them, i sent the story to maxconsole but it didn't get posted, it seems like this site is anti nintendo alot of times, stories i give that make sony look good get posted, anything bad about sony or good for nintendo rarely does. i guess maybe just doesn't think they are relevent for some reason, anyway these are part of the Wii specs that were on nintendo's website:

final hardware spec was Broadway at around 1.5GHz and Hollywood at 555MHz

this was also on the site

"IBM and ATI have been working on Broadway and Hollywood for quite some time now. And according to many people Wii’s specs could go up or down at this point in the CPU/VPU departments. Apparently Nintendo has spent quite a lot of money having IBM and ATI fabricate many iterations of Broadway and Hollywood. Which range from a 3.4GHz-730MHz Broadway CPUs, and 1.2GHz-553MHz custom ATI/Nintendo Hollywood VPU. From what we hear Hollywood is key to the Wii’s power. The architecture is all about eliminating bottlenecks and maximizing performance, upgrade of the CPU with the slight downgrade of the graphics processor compliments this philosophy, striking a great balance for Wii."

source http://www.2amupdate.com/readarticle.php?article_id=3

LOL. The article isnt anti Nintendo, its just the facts. You're clearly dissapointed with them though Daps.

Truths hard to swallow eh? I told you the hardware was inferior. They will have to increase the price to improve the spec. Why cant you Nintendo fanatics just accept the facts, everyone else knew what the specs would be virtually identical to these anyway. Im glad Sony didnt forget about the quality of whats inside the box. You cant accept anything that doesnt say that the WII is the greatest console ever produced or that Nintendo is the most ethical trustworthy company.

The hardware is crap. The controller maybe good, but it hasnt really been put through its paces yet. I dont think Sony have anything to worry about, the 360 has such bad street cred(I have one though), that they could sell it for free and the PS3 would still out sell it. The wii will be seen as the "kiddy" console or the "toy" console.

I think the E3 best of show award is all the wii will be getting. Enjoy your short but sweet success Nintendo. The daddy of all consoles is coming and its made by Sony.

[daps83777]

so you think that a source this credible just came to maxconsole with an exclusive with the Wii specs? i doubt that, we would get anything that credible, at least the info i provided was actually on nintendo's website. but hey some guy is more reliable than nintendo when it comes to nintendo right?

[LordX]

Wii is a XBOX-1 Clone :D same performance hehe.... or maybe not XBOX-1 have HDTV HAHA !!!

[thePANICHIOteam]

so you think that a source this credible just came to maxconsole with an exclusive with the Wii specs? i doubt that, we would get anything that credible, at least the info i provided was actually on nintendo's website. but hey some guy is more reliable than nintendo when it comes to nintendo right?
Im sorry but what planet are you on? I mean think about it how many thousands of people have been deveolping for the wii, this information was bound to get leaked sooner or later. The devs have all this information.
How good do you think the wii is going to get for under $250 anyway. You keep talking about Nintendos website.

Look at Nintendos site. They essentially have the same specs, they just dont go into great detail and post just how bad the hardware actually is.

Graphics Processing Unit: Being developed with ATI.
Yes you were cheapskates and asked ATI to make th GC GPU faster. Its only 1.5X faster. Woopieeeee.

Stop trying to convince yourself you dont want a PS3 and start saving now.

[daps83777]

you should go up to my first post in this thread and look and see what i wrote about the specs. i could call myself an insider and say something about the Wii specs, would that make me as credible as whoever this guy is that supposedly gave maxconsole this scoop? don't you think an insider would rather give a scoop like this to ign or gamespot or someone like that?

[Phil2000]

LOL. The article isnt anti Nintendo, its just the facts.


Since when does one unknown source make it a fact?


The hardware is crap. The controller maybe good, but it hasnt really been put through its paces yet. I dont think Sony have anything to worry about, the 360 has such bad street cred(I have one though), that they could sell it for free and the PS3 would still out sell it. The wii will be seen as the "kiddy" console or the "toy" console.


Did you come from the future or something? You know how a console play like before it is ever release. :eek:

[kronikdaddy]

another bonus to lower speed stuff is its not as hard to manufacture as say the PS3 or 360, so you wont have any probs finding a Wii on launch week. it will be like the DSlite, 1st week its out there but you have to look kinda hard to find one then the week after you can find them alot more places. 360 took almost 4 months before you could find one at the store.

[Mr Doctor]

1.5x faster is a bloody good chunk faster. Considering the cube had some fantastic graphics for its hardware.... and this is 50% more, whats to complain about?

[thePANICHIOteam]

Please tell me the wii specs you are expecting, i'd love to see them. Will be good for a laugh.

Im not from the future, but I may as well be. If the specs arent virtually identical to these, i'll eat my hat.

[daps83777]

i really think we can expect Broadway at around 1.5GHz and Hollywood at 555MHz and probably a little more ram than what "The Guy" said.

also like i mentioned in an earlier post

"IBM and ATI have been working on Broadway and Hollywood for quite some time now. And according to many people Wii’s specs could go up or down at this point in the CPU/VPU departments. Apparently Nintendo has spent quite a lot of money having IBM and ATI fabricate many iterations of Broadway and Hollywood. Which range from a 3.4GHz-730MHz Broadway CPUs, and 1.2GHz-553MHz custom ATI/Nintendo Hollywood VPU. From what we hear Hollywood is key to the Wii’s power. The architecture is all about eliminating bottlenecks and maximizing performance, upgrade of the CPU with the slight downgrade of the graphics processor compliments this philosophy, striking a great balance for Wii."

i think nintendo wants to make something better than what would barely be better than a GC. though some people call the 360 a xbox 1.5 so i guess maybe being in that range could be acceptable. at least i don't think that sony is a god and can do no wrong, thats a pretty missed up thing. i'm glad i stopped being one of the fanatical sony fanboys.

i do think with all the ps2 games coming out the PS3's biggest competition could be the ps2, and then the Wii depending on the American responce to the Wii.

[tashmeister]

1.5x faster is a bloody good chunk faster. Considering the cube had some fantastic graphics for its hardware.... and this is 50% more, whats to complain about?


Me and you both smoke the same weed, i can smell it in your post!

[pubjoe]

Its seem less and less like a console. More and more like a toy. Maybe a fun toy, but still a toy.
Errm... Yes. Bang on.

A fun toy, fun games, that's what I want.

Since when have games supposed to not be fun? :confused:

I've been very bored of most big, high-budget, graphically intensive games lately. After a few years of "slightly more polygons and effects than the last game in series", you get pretty unphased by graphics.

And anyway, with creativity and knowledge-of-limitations, a game can look like a masterpiece. [i]...Give one true artist a toothbrush and he will still create a greater work than a 1000 morons with 3D studio.

Games have been able to do the same important gameplay stuff for a while now, only now, with "more realistic eyebrows" (quote from Half-life 2 developer... honest! :rolleyes: ).

I want the fun back in games and hopefully I might start playing them again.

I think I am one of many in the market that Nintendo hopes to get on board.

wii don't want to count pixels.

(I'm becoming a big fan :D , I hope it lives up to my expectations)

[daps83777]

i think games have gotten less fun since the days of snes, graphics have become the only important thing to most, fun factor doesn't matter if it has alot of eyecandy right?

[pubjoe]

i really think we can expect Broadway at around 1.5GHz and Hollywood at 555MHz
Might be nice, but tbh, it's the last thing I'll base my purchase decision on.

[dreary79]

Zeus, how credible is your source? His source is not creditable at all... ITS FROM AN ANONYMOUS WII DEVELOPER!!!!!!

Zeus posts everything he can against the the Wii and DS... He says he's not a Nintendo hater, but he is. Right now I'm treating this thread as a lie that Zeus bought into because he hates Nintendo. If someone was to say, "I'm a PS3 developer and Sony has decided to not put into a Blue-ray drive into the PS3 because of EU Opening an Unofficial HD DVD and Blu-ray Probe to invest on antitrust laws being broken" Zeus would just look at that and say it was a lie because he isn't a Sony hater.

[LaNcom]

1.5x faster is a bloody good chunk faster. Considering the cube had some fantastic graphics for its hardware.... and this is 50% more, whats to complain about?
According to Julian Eggebrecht (Factor 5) and other well known devs, the Cube had a very impressive GPU, incredibly powerful, but it had not enough VRAM to even remotely exploit that power. So, even if it were "only" a Cube GPU overclocked to 250MHz, it would be lightyears ahead as the Wii has much more memory available.

But I still doubt Hollywood is only 150% as fast. For three reasons:

1.) It has much faster memory and a higher overall bandwidth.

2.) It uses a much smaller structure, and probably a streamlined overall design, with a few more bottlenecks eliminated. Even at 1.5 times the clockspeed, it would be at the very least twice as fast.

3.) Nvidia spent several hundred million dollars on Hollywood. Shrinking and overclocking a Gamecube GPU would be very, very cheap. I doubt that's all they did with the money... ;)

[smudgeone]

These specs are generally around what the rumours around the internet have been saying since E3. If you want to compare last generation to this,

PS1-PS2, incredible leap, because PS1 was weak to begin with, and PS2 is powerful
N64-NGC, another huge leap in performance even though N64 was powerful for its time, storage ROM->MINIDVD, and very powerful for the size
everything else-XBOX, best graphics, best moddability, biggest size, console and controller

XBOX-360, huge leap in graphics, games still as bad, console less likely to start a fire
NGC-Wii, small leap in graphics, new style of gameplay, new types of games
PS2-PS3, huge leap in price, um, a rather big gap in technology because PS2 is rather weak compared to the others.

Now, I lost my point in this, but you could almost look at the graphics, and in my opinion, the control scheme with the gap between the NGC and the Wii with the PS1 and the N64. N64 had better textures and resolutions and a really wicked controller. Well, the Wii has better textures and resolutions and wicked controller, so be it.

[thePANICHIOteam]

You poor poor Nintendo fanboys. You're clearly not happy with the specs of the console. Theyre not going to be better than what has been quoted. Really what are you guys expecting?


you won’t be disappointed.

prepare your eyes for a textual feast on the joys to behold with the Wii.


This article isnt anti wii. This site and others has been full of stories about analysts saying how the PS3 may flop, how expensive it is to develop for it yadda yadda yadda.

So dont give me that anti wii crap. You've interpreted it as anti wii because you are dissapointed with the spec. Its inline with whats on Nintendos site and what everyone has been expecting. Im not sure what is so unbelievable for a console that will be under $250????

[pubjoe]

Even if the source is correct. I really don't care.

Besides, I think it probably does sound about right, Nintendo has always made loose comments about 1.5x to 2x the power of gamecube.

Raw speed is meaning less and less these days, and we have grown up in a gaming industry that has been hyping and glorifying useless specifications for ages.

There is so much more that goes into making a successful product. Gaming is a new-born industry and we are finally growing out of the early 'more+bigger+faster=better' mentality, that comes with a new technology finding it's feet. The future will see lot less importance in numbers.

Just let the games speak for themselves.


...Aaaand while I'm on my soap-box....

What is with all this "just a toy" or "this is a serious console" anyway?

it's playing games ffs!!! It is a toy! It's recreation! It's supposed to be fun. Of course it's a bloody toy!

I've never really bought into all this serious "videogame-sport" and "athlete gamer" stuff. I play games when I want to waste time and have a bit of fun.

[daps83777]

how do we know that the PS3 isn't going to be bottleknecked like the PS2 was? the ps2 was suppose to be powerfull but ending up not being close to what it was suppose to be. especially the gpu from what i have read.

you do realize that by using existing technologies, ie not making your own cpu and the such, nintendo saves money automaticlly. $200-$300 just for the bluray drive, that we are paying for out of the price of the PS3's $500-$600 price tag. who knows how much the cell is costing us. the bluray drive alone could possibly have removed that amount of money making the PS3 as cheap as $200-$300, is it such a leap that nintendo could make a capable system in that same price range? apparently not.

[dreary79]

You poor poor Nintendo fanboys. You're clearly not happy with the specs of the console. Theyre not going to be better than what has been quoted. Really what are you guys expecting?

This article isnt anti wii. This site and others has been full of stories about analysts saying how the PS3 may flop, how expensive it is to develop for it yadda yadda yadda.

So dont give me that anti wii crap. You've interpreted it as anti wii because you are dissapointed with the spec. Its inline with whats on Nintendos site and what everyone has been expecting. Im not sure what is so unbelievable for a console that will be under $250????

This site doesn't post half of the anti PS3 stories, but this site does come up with the lamest anti-Nintendo stories. To be honest I just think that Zeus is trying to pull the goats of Nintendo fanboys. This story is a complete fake. I'll buy a Wii even if this story is true, but this whole "anonymous developer" thing that is quote, "very credible" is such a joke.

[thePANICHIOteam]

This site doesn't post half of the anti PS3 stories, but this site does come up with the lamest anti-Nintendo stories. To be honest I just think that Zeus is trying to pull the goats of Nintendo fanboys. This story is a complete fake. I'll buy a Wii even if this story is true, but this whole "anonymous developer" thing that is quote, "very credible" is such a joke.
What exactly made this story "anti Nintendo"?

[daps83777]

these are a few of the sotries i haven't had posted, they either are bad for sony of good for nintendo.

http://www.cubed3.com/news/5587 (about the Wii specs being better than people think)

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10246 (Nintendo Wii may trump PS3 from business week)

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18505 (about ds game sells in Japan, and how they are staying strong)

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10186 (about how sony execs are bailing ship)

now i know not every artice can be put on this website, but these are all stories that alot of other websites i visit posted. it just seems weird to me. no website is perfect and i love maxconsole, but it seems like everyone wants to bash the Wii, and is not providing equel rights to every game console. i guess that is just my personal opinion. i just wish one of my favorite sites (maxconsole) will spread the love a little better.

[dreary79]

What exactly made this story "anti Nintendo"?
If the story is a made up lie... then yes it is a anti-Nintendo story making the Wii look bad.

So Panichioteam and Zeus, how does "credible" and "anonymous developer" work together in the same sentence?

[thePANICHIOteam]

Yes but this story is trying to spread the love isnt it? Its not derogatory to the wii in any way whatsoever. I could find many articles that are pro PS3 that have not been posted. Indeed the front page of maxconsole now has 11 Nintendo console related stories up. Your grievances are unfounded.

Dreary im not sure what your problem is. The story doesnt make the wii look bad. That is your own interpretation. You'll soon find out if the specs are wrong. However I think they are spot on. Its what many peole have been saying on other forums too.

[daps83777]

they are nintendo related, but they aren't the ones saying like business week that the Wii could actually out do the PS3 in sales. or that because of what is happening with the PS3, that the sony execs from the Playstation branch are leaving over everything going on. especially the PS3 story on execs leaving, thats a pretty big deal. everytime someone at a magazine or something says PS3 is going to kill the Wii it winds up here. if one says the Wii could beat PS3, it never finds its way here. maybe they don't monitor the same sites i do, but i have emailed them links to the stories.

i know they probably get tons of pms and stuff, it just seems like the Wii doesn't receive its due. stories about it having a chance or being better than people think. but the negative stories about sony don't always make there way here, i will admit some of them do make themselves to this site, about alot of the really bad ones don't. i know you can't post everything, and you have to decide what is worthy and what isn't, i just wish that news would be posted regardless of who it was good or bad for. and let the people make up there minds.

[thePANICHIOteam]

i know you can't post everything, and you have to decide what is worthy and what isn't, i just wish that news would be posted regardless of who it was good or bad for. and let the people make up there minds.
Like this story

[KainXS]

SO YOU NINTENDO BAASTARDS THINK I'M GONNA PAY 200 DOLLARS FOR AN SYSTEM THAT ALMOST THE SAME AS AN XBOX, YOU CAN SUCK MY CCOOOOCCCCKKKKKKK

CPU: 733MHz Intel P3
Ram: 64MB

[daps83777]

i like how you only quote parts of what i say. i don't think you hardly ever read an entire post i write. the only reason i have a problem with an article like this is because if someone gave insider information that the PS3 specs were being reduced it would never make it to this site. plus there are no soruces sited, or anything that seem trust worthy. why would an insider that makes games give maxconsole an exclusive? only one site has reported this after it was here on maxconsole and they reported that this news was supposedly exclusive to maxconsole. here is a link

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/07/30/full-list-of-wii-specs-allegedly/

if multiple sites got insider information from the same source it would be more credible, i just don't see how maxconsole would get this kind of insider information.

why wasn't this information posted when i request it? this has stuff that was actually on nintendo's site, seems more credible than some so called insider. http://www.2amupdate.com/readarticle.php?article_id=3

[BirthFromFire]

I really think that we should not care that much about the specs... I mean who cares about the specs of the console as long as you have good and fun games. Who cares about the specs If we can have nice games (both in graphics and playability) such as Resident Evil 4, Mario Sunshine, Mario Kart, Crystal Chronicles, Zelda Windwaker, Baten Kaitos, Prince of Persia etc etc. At the end of the day fun, good time and unique experiences with friends is all that counts

[{{909}}]

numbers are numbers, theres no surprises here, so games may only look a bit better than cube games, 50% or whatever, atleast the devs will be able to get full use of the gpu etc, since they have already been working on the same basic hardware for so long.

comparing these numbers to the old xbox is totally pointelss too, saying its not as fast as the original xbox etc, the cube is on par with the xbox already, so obviously in real world performance, the wii will be far ahead of the xbox

people blather on about the 360 being X times more powerful than the old xbox, but where do the games verify that, everything looks (and alot are) just like an xbox game in high res. Nothing will ever come out on the PS3 or 360 that couldnt be done on the old generation in lower res/less polys etc. wii games will be unique and thats all im bothered about.

Nintendo did say that they wanted to make the wii stye remote as an addon for the cube, but the cube hardware wasnt powerful enough, so all they have basically done is kncoked the cube up a notch to enable them to do what they want.

Its not stated anywhere that to be "next gen" you have to improve the gfx a huge amount. theres no rules, even if sony and Ms stick to their own rules of churning out dull hardware.

[KainXS]

i guess you don't have a hi res tv because they don't actually look alike

[InsaneNutter]

This site doesn't post half of the anti PS3 stories, but this site does come up with the lamest anti-Nintendo stories. To be honest I just think that Zeus is trying to pull the goats of Nintendo fanboys. This story is a complete fake. I'll buy a Wii even if this story is true, but this whole "anonymous developer" thing that is quote, "very credible" is such a joke.

His source is not creditable at all... ITS FROM AN ANONYMOUS WII DEVELOPER!!!!!!

Zeus posts everything he can against the the Wii and DS... He says he's not a Nintendo hater, but he is. Right now I'm treating this thread as a lie that Zeus bought into because he hates Nintendo. If someone was to say, "I'm a PS3 developer and Sony has decided to not put into a Blue-ray drive into the PS3 because of EU Opening an Unofficial HD DVD and Blu-ray Probe to invest on antitrust laws being broken" Zeus would just look at that and say it was a lie because he isn't a Sony hater.

Its been rumoured long before this article that the Wii would be about as powerful as the Xbox, seriously how else do you think there going to make it so cheap? Nintendo don’t care about graphics, its all about game play with them... if you want graphics get a 360 or PS3.

Of course the developer is going to remain "anonymous" he's hardly going to go "Hi I’m Mike Johnson from Ubisoft France, I have leaked the system specs of the Wii please don’t fire or take legal action against me” It still don’t mean its not from a credible source...

If you think about it... something about the PS3 not having blue ray wouldn’t be posted… its one of the main things on the PS3 and Sony said it would be featured in the PS3 years a go... no one would believe it.

That article is not anti Nintendo, its simply the system specifications and a bit of information from the developer.

[dreary79]

Dreary im not sure what your problem is. The story doesnt make the wii look bad. That is your own interpretation. You'll soon find out if the specs are wrong. However I think they are spot on. Its what many peole have been saying on other forums too.

So if I post a story that the PS3 only supports one controler I'm not making it look bad either. And what other forums are posting about this article? I thought this story was an "EXCLUSIVE" to maxconsole.

So a Wii developer decided to send Zeus of Maxconsole (a hacking site) the information on the Wii. He doesn't send it to EGM, IGN, or Gamespot, he tells Zues of Maxconsole. That's like Bush finding Weapons of Mass Destruction and giving the information to the National Inquirer.

EDIT: Maybe the specs are true, but the details of this story are bogus. And if the specs are false then this is an anti-Wii topic.

[whorse]

well, i wouldnt buy any story unless it comes from the only real source : nintendo itself. Not just because it looks fishy, but because there are SO many rumours about the wii, that ANY asshole can pretend being anyone and say whatever he wants.

Also, let me ask you : If microsoft can sell a core 360 system for 300$ (which is supposed to be SUPER C00L DUDE!), why should nintendo sell a hyped up cube for 250$? Try to be smart, EVEN for a while, and you will soon understand that the reason nintedo tried a lot of "iterations of the broadway and hollywood" cpu and gpus are because they are trying to find the best analogy between them to remove bottlenecks and to get the best performance per price. Yes, a processor 20% faster and a gpu 20% faster can get you BETTER results, but by HOW much? The only real truth about specs lie in well though architecture. Why should a "hyped up" cube cost 250$ while they are selling it right now for next to nothing? I wouldnt bet on these specs.

Let me give an example. Ps2 was supposed to have the "emotion engine" graphics processor. Emotion MY ASS! They only gave their gpu 2 mb of vram... While the dreamcast had 8!!!

Also, to people saying that xbox 1 is more powerful... Wake up and see the difference. You probably aint that computer smart eh? Comparing a 32bit CELERON processor at 733mhz with a 7xx mhx POWER PC processor is NOWHERE near. Just like comparing a turbodiesel engine with a normal petrol one just because their cc are nearly identical... LEARN, and then TALK.

IF you need more proof, just have a look at the prices opteron processors are now. Why would they be so expensive? They are in the same clock speeds after all!!! isnt it? LOL

Truth or not, i will wait and see.
After all, even if it DOES stay close to these specs, it will probably sell for less than 250$ and its software will kick sonys ass to outer space, just like ds is doing to the pspshit out there. :D

[whorse]

So if I post a story that the PS3 only supports one controler I'm not making it look bad either. And what other forums are posting about this article? I thought this story was an "EXCLUSIVE" to maxconsole.

So a Wii developer decided to send Zeus of Maxconsole (a hacking site) the information on the Wii. He doesn't send it to EGM, IGN, or Gamespot, he tells Zues of Maxconsole. That's like Bush finding Weapons of Mass Destruction and giving the information to the National Inquirer.

Or just like Slipknot deciding to unveil their faces in national geographic instead of kerrang!

Man, this has to be the funniest thing i read this year!!! You can have a beer on me everytime!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

[daps83777]

So a Wii developer decided to send Zeus of Maxconsole (a hacking site) the information on the Wii. He doesn't send it to EGM, IGN, or Gamespot, he tells Zues of Maxconsole. That's like Bush finding Weapons of Mass Destruction and giving the information to the National Inquisitor. [/QUOTE]

i argree dreary79

also its like everyone says it has been rumored to be underpowered. i think some people need to read this because apparently you don't understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumor

rumors don't mean anything. if i gave head to every rumor, i would be a very misinformed individual. did you all believe the rumor about sony not allowing game rentals of PS3 games because each copy of a game could only be played on one console? that was supposedly from a credible insider and it even cited sources i believe. but again, even though sony said its not true i guess it must be because it is a rumor. or is sony so perfect they are exempt from rumors?

[{{909}}]

this thread is going nowhere, and never will.

i want to play zelda, mario galaxy and wario smooth moves, they look brilliant so im buying the wii, regardless of its clock speed and all that meaningless crap. no matter how fast the 360 or PS3 are, tombraider is still tombraider.

[thePANICHIOteam]

So if I post a story that the PS3 only supports one controler I'm not making it look bad either. And what other forums are posting about this article? I thought this story was an "EXCLUSIVE" to maxconsole.

So a Wii developer decided to send Zeus of Maxconsole (a hacking site) the information on the Wii. He doesn't send it to EGM, IGN, or Gamespot, he tells Zues of Maxconsole. That's like Bush finding Weapons of Mass Destruction and giving the information to the National Inquisitor.

Dreary a story was never posted along the lines of "the wii will only support one controller". No one is making you believe the story, dont believe it if you dont want too. This story has been quoted by other sites. If they didnt respect maxconsoles news stories or think they werent in the slightest bit reliable. Then they would not post it as news on their sites. Infact most sites always end up copying max's news.

Those other sites you mentioned only work 9-5. They probably dont give many people the time of day because they think they are the big shots. They mainly post official news from Nintnedo, Sony etc... Thats why I and many others use this site. If you thought they had all the latest, greates and most exclusive news, you probably wouldnt use this site.

[daps83777]

actually most of maxconsoles news comes from other sites, thats why you see it all over the place. most of the sites copy 2 or 3 sites.

[dreary79]

No one is making you believe the story, dont believe it if you dont want too. This story has been quoted by other sites. If they didnt respect maxconsoles news stories or think they werent in the slightest bit reliable. Then they would not post it as news on their sites. Infact most sites always end up copying max's news.

Those other sites you mentioned only work 9-5. They probably dont give many people the time of day because they think they are the big shots. They mainly post official news from Nintnedo, Sony etc... Thats why I and many others use this site. If you thought they had all the latest, greates and most exclusive news, you probably wouldnt use this site.

Zues posted the story as fact by saying "Well all that has just changed!" and "all that’s left now is a confirmed release date and price". Maxconsole posts rumors all the time, but this rumor is posted as fact. And you can go ahead and believe that Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft sends all their information to Maxconsole first. They love giving information to hacking sites.

[thePANICHIOteam]

Were going around in circles now. If its wrong. We'll soon find out wont we.

[daps83777]

we are, but i just want one questioned answered, why would inside information about the Wii be leaked of all places a hacking site?

if this would have popped up on ign or gamespot from one of there sources i would have been more likely to believe it.

also i have been asking around some sites, and apparently they think a few technical terms were misused, trying to make them sound more authentic, not positive becuase don't pay that much attention to technical lingo, but apparently some others are, and they believe it is fake in part because of that. one guy even called it technical garbage.

[City Ninja]

I love it when Fanboys get their world shaken up a bit LOL so awesome...

anyone bring some popcorn?

[daps83777]

look at the specs he says the Wii uses DDR3, correct? the Wii in fact uses 1T-SRAM, which is one of a few mistakes made in the technical stuff. the technical language is also off, know verified by multiple people i have talked to. if these specs were real, he would have had them exactly as they were and nintendo would not have used incorrect technical language, or made mistakes in the specs.

[dreary79]

I agree daps, this is just propaganda against the Wii.

I hated N64 except for Zelda. I hated that some 3rd party games only came out on the Gamecube because I had decided to never buy one. I thought that Nintendo was going to die when then announced the DS dual screen gimmick.

But I bought a GC and loved it. I bought a DS and its one of the best systems I've ever owned. And the Wii looks like what I've been waiting for since the SNES. Don't get me wrong I loved and still love my PS1 and PS2 with all the amazing RPG's. I love my Xbox Media Center. But the Wii has really got my attention. I care about the specs because I'm curious... yet I don't care because they really don't matter. Some people just hate the Wii, people like thePANICHIOteam. And some of these haters love to post and spread lies because they just can't face the fact that the Wii is going to be really big and change gaming forever.

[chukz]

Well we all knew the Wii wasn't going to be powerful, and people were saying it's comparable to a current gen Xbox system, so maybe that's where they got these "specs" from. Also some developing houses were given pretty much GC SDK to develop games for the Wii a while back, this "anonymous developper" could have had an older developing unit and thought it's the final specs or something.

I don't think any of us are waiting for nintendo to say "haha fooled you, it's really 3.0GHz CPU and 1.0GHz GPU with 512Ram!". We are expecting a console stronger than the GC for sure though, it doesn't make any damn sense to launch the Nintendo Wii if it's identical to the GC. People like "The Panichio Team" take this info and pretend it's FACT (which you did in your first post) and flame everyone, then when people get offended, he backs down and says "let's just wait to see if it's true" or "if this info is wrong i'll eat my hat". None of us can take this info as purely factual, look at the source, "anonymous developer" how many of those exist? How hard is it to have a story posted like this?

For everyone's sake it should really be removed. OR Put RUMOUR instead of EXCLUSIVE. That's all this is, a rumor of an opinion of what the Wii is going to be, based on the already sketchy facts that Nintendo gave us.

Think of it logically, the nintendo Gamecube sells for what, $80? If it was the same as the GC, why would they estimate a price of $250? Obviously they would try to increase it, everyone knows the same old thing won't cut it.
This isn't only about graphics, we're talking about system performance. Newer consoles can do things that older consoles simply can't. Beyond the controller and the virtual console, there has to be something for the new gamers that weren't alive when Super Mario Brothers came out, or don't care for SNES emulation.

Once again, do NOT treat this as fact until you see it on www.nintendo.com
Otherwise you put your foot in your mouth... and maybe "you'll eat your hat".

[maduin]

this is just a compiled list of everything that is already known and that already has been speculated or revealed. No new info here, just some rumors are being stated as facts. Anyone who has been following Wii news will recognize everything that was "revealed" today from one news source or another from the past few months.

[daps83777]

this isn't all stuff from other sites, some of this info is incorrect. and some of it is just bogus. yet it is being called an exclusive like it is authentic. the more i have read around on some other sites the more i am convinced that this is beyond bogus. i do want to say that its funny that some people stopped posting after stuff started getting pointed out that proved that the article is bogus, they went from bashing us, and telling us how ridiculuous it was for us to expect anything better, to completely silent. i just found that interesting.

[chukz]

lol@daps83777
ThePanichioTeam I wonder where he went

That's the problem about posting something like this as "FACT" or "EXCLUSIVE", people WILL believe it. I can't blame ThePanichioTeam too much, beacuse I trust a lot of the news I read from this website, but I'm not absorbing everything, I question what I see and whether it makes sense or not. If someone posts stupid things I try to reply with stupider things in hopes they start understanding how silly their first idea was.

ThePanichioTeam started by taking this info as FACT (again not entirely his fault, he really trusted the article) and that's not the bad thing. The bad thing is when he was almost 'gloating' as if he was somehow victorious for someone posting this, that all the nintendo fans would run to whatever console he is supporting. He also laughed at people who liked nintendo, saying they shouldn't expect more than "crap hardware" which in retrospect now he might be "eating his hat" as he said he would, when logic has had time to sink in.

So Please Maxconsole, next time you post news, keep it in the usual method, of either posting it as "RUMOR" or it being 100% true (by this I mean, I can go to Nintendo.com and find the exact info). But, on the bright side, look at how active this thread is!

As far as getting attention, your almost doing as good as Nintendo :D

[MadonnaProject]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....THIS THING IS LESS POWERFUL THAN THE XBOX 1.

plus:

people bitched about the original xbox not showing originality and blamed it for being a souped up xbox. however the architecture of the 360 is actually competely different to the original xbox.

*the wii is basically TWO gamecibes running together.

the next gen consoles like the ps3 and xbox 360 are getting games like saints row, assasins creed, lost planet, halo3, killzone 2, forza motorsport2, ninja gaiden 2, resident evil 5, final fantasy 13 and mgs 4.

the losers who buy the nintendo console will STILL be the idiots who end up with the same old mario this, mario that, zelda one sole game, then mario sports, and mario cooking and mario fishing and MARIO SHOELACE TYING. oh and pokemon this and pokemon that.

FUDGING HOLY SHOIT. this is more crap then even i imagined. have fun with excite truck and red stell you losers. the REAL boys will be where the games mentioned above are at.

[chukz]

Ohh wow here comes one with more grammar errors than this kid has brains. Let's get to work:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....THIS THING IS LESS POWERFUL THAN THE XBOX 1.
-again treating this info as if it were real. you haven't even seen a full game, how can you tell exactly how powerful it is?

people bitched about the original xbox not showing originality and blamed it for being a souped up xbox.
-nuff said

however the architecture of the 360 is actually competely different to the original xbox.
-YAY big words! architecture!ooo... if it's so different why did it's security get compromised less than 3 months after launch? It(xbox360) is running different processors than in the Xbox, which is bad news when microsoft claims it has nearly perfect "Backwards Compatibility"

*the wii is basically TWO gamecibes running together.
-Again not only is that false information, it might even be impossible.

the next gen consoles like the ps3 and xbox 360 are getting games like saints row, assasins creed, lost planet, halo3, killzone 2, forza motorsport2, ninja gaiden 2, resident evil 5, final fantasy 13 and mgs 4.
-2 questions, 1) how much of those are First Person Shooters, 2) How many of them are sequels. Thank you.

the losers who buy the nintendo console will STILL be the idiots who end up with the same old mario this, mario that, zelda one sole game, then mario sports, and mario cooking and mario fishing and MARIO SHOELACE TYING. oh and pokemon this and pokemon that.
-Yeah, because the games you listed as being so great on the other consoles are NOT sequels? You just made an idiot out of yourself in the SAME post, congratulations I'm sure you can win an award for that somewhere!

FUDGING HOLY SHOIT
-Probably the only thing you said so far that makes some kind of sense, and that's how bad your entire post was.

this is more crap then even i imagined
-Odd you strike me as the type to have limited imagination.

have fun with excite truck and red stell you losers.
-Let me rephrase that for you: "Have fun with excite truck and red steel you losers, 2 original games with interesting control methods, while I play Final Fantasy 13, and Halo 3!"

the REAL boys will be where the games mentioned above are at.
-Oh NOZ! If we want 2 B reel boyZ we g0tta get thoz g4m3z! He said we won't be real boys if don't play those games, quick everyone let's Jump On the bandwagon and play all the games this guy tells us... look how smart he is!

So there is your entire post, as anyone with a brain would see it. Warning: I will keep this link copied so I can just link it back here when you make an ass out of yourself another time.

Thanks for coming out.GG

[MadonnaProject]

for the people who are saying this is an anti-wii thread, i think its appearent they are so pissed off because half of them consider these specs to be DEROGATORY. lol. and quite frankly such a weak console is truely shameful.

plus the pathetic idiots who are claiming the wii will be so and so powerful because the gc was a powerful machine and blah blah are just desperately tryingt o get their hopes up because they KNOW at the back of their heads they are not satisfied with these specs and will do and say anything to feel more comfortable with the thought that the wii will be more powerful than stated here.

finally those pointless beings on the planet who consider gaming to have ended being fun with the snes. or claim theyre not interested in the specs. what the hell are you doing on this website anyways? dont read the post and dont say anything then and let nature take its course. also the people who are insulting ZEUS and this very website for being ani- nintendo. what the hell are you doing here? BUZZ OFF OR SHUT THE FUDGE UP. sheesh.

[MadonnaProject]

Ohh wow here comes one with more grammar errors than this kid has brains. Let's get to work:


-again treating this info as if it were real. you haven't even seen a full game, how can you tell exactly how powerful it is?


-nuff said


-YAY big words! architecture!ooo... if it's so different why did it's security get compromised less than 3 months after launch? It(xbox360) is running different processors than in the Xbox, which is bad news when microsoft claims it has nearly perfect "Backwards Compatibility"


-Again not only is that false information, it might even be impossible.


-2 questions, 1) how much of those are First Person Shooters, 2) How many of them are sequels. Thank you.


-Yeah, because the games you listed as being so great on the other consoles are NOT sequels? You just made an idiot out of yourself in the SAME post, congratulations I'm sure you can win an award for that somewhere!


-Probably the only thing you said so far that makes some kind of sense, and that's how bad your entire post was.


-Odd you strike me as the type to have limited imagination.


-Let me rephrase that for you: "Have fun with excite truck and red steel you losers, 2 original games with interesting control methods, while I play Final Fantasy 13, and Halo 3!"


-Oh NOZ! If we want 2 B reel boyZ we g0tta get thoz g4m3z! He said we won't be real boys if don't play those games, quick everyone let's Jump On the bandwagon and play all the games this guy tells us... look how smart he is!

So there is your entire post, as anyone with a brain would see it. Warning: I will keep this link copied so I can just link it back here when you make an ass out of yourself another time.

Thanks for coming out.GG


Um, chuckles, that was a really nice demonstration of the bitchy cheerleader nintendo loving fanboys, trying to pout highschool cheerleader disses all over my post. but why critically analyse the words in my post? this isnt essay writing.....:rolleyes:

let me EDUCATE you:

the security on the 360 got compromised, because the bios chip in the dvd rom drive was FLASHABLE. which means anyone can change the code in there. the xbox itself is STILL unhacked where it counts - the motherboard.

it is only the dvd rom drive which got compromised. quite ingeniously i might add as well.

also theres NOTHING wrong with first person shooters, i find them very relaxing. i also find rpg titles platformers and sports or racing games fun. what i DONT want is to come home from work and university, and having to flail my arms around with a controller which tires me out and feels LIMITED because it only has one useful button. imagine playing splinter cell or ANY fps, or adventure game on the gamecube controller. splinter cell, and tony hawk games have OFFICIALLY outgrown the button placement for that little piece of junk.

AND my point was, that MOST of the people in the world will be playing MGS4 and HALO3, and nintendo is still stuck up on pokemon.

now, seriously, stop acting like a prissy little girl with a zit on her forehead, pouncing on the next person she sees because she also happens to be having a visit from aunty menstrual for 5 days. and actually open your eyes to the fact that these specs are CONFIRMED nintendo wii specs. it will be a miracle if theyre any different. and if you have a spare miracle, use it on the americans winning or resolving their **** in iraq. not the nintendo wii.

[dreary79]

MadonnaProject, you can say my name when your talking against me.

for the people who are saying this is an anti-wii thread, i think its appearent they are so pissed off because half of them consider these specs to be DEROGATORY. lol. and quite frankly such a weak console is truely shameful.I am not ticked off. I don't consider those specs to be derogatory. Its just a fact that people are telling rumors about the Wii to make it look bad.

plus the pathetic idiots who are claiming the wii will be so and so powerful because the gc was a powerful machine and blah blah are just desperately tryingt o get their hopes up because they KNOW at the back of their heads they are not satisfied with these specs and will do and say anything to feel more comfortable with the thought that the wii will be more powerful than stated here.I'm not a pathetic idiot and maybe you should learn to respect people in general instead of insulting them with names.

finally those pointless beings on the planet who consider gaming to have ended being fun with the snes. or claim theyre not interested in the specs. what the hell are you doing on this website anyways? dont read the post and dont say anything then and let nature take its course. also the people who are insulting ZEUS and this very website for being ani- nintendo. what the hell are you doing here? BUZZ OFF OR SHUT THE FUDGE UP. sheesh.Read what I said again before you say that I said that gaming ended with the SNES. All I was saying is that gaming hasn't been as fun to me... this is my opinion... as when I played the SNES. And I'm not saying anything about Zeus like calling him an idiot. All I said was that he was anti-Nintendo. If someone called me a PS3 hater in all honesty I wouldn't care. I jumped on the Wii bandwagon during E3. I went anti-Sony during E3. I thought that the PS2 was the best system of the last consoles. Some of my favorite RPG's were on the PS1. But Sony has ticked me off and I'm not buying a PS3 any time soon.

I like this site and its news stories... that's why I'm here. But people, like you, are bashing the Wii over a RUMOR that was posted by ZEUS as a FACT. I'm obviously going to stick up for the Wii since I like it. That doesn't make me an idiot.

[icebergisonfire]

nice info that has been found

[MadonnaProject]

MadonnaProject, you can say my name when your talking against me.

I am not ticked off. I don't consider those specs to be derogatory. Its just a fact that people are telling rumors about the Wii to make it look bad.

I'm not a pathetic idiot and maybe you should learn to respect people in general instead of insulting them with names.

Read what I said again before you say that I said that gaming ended with the SNES. All I was saying is that gaming hasn't been as fun to me... this is my opinion... as when I played the SNES. And I'm not saying anything about Zeus like calling him an idiot. All I said was that he was anti-Nintendo. If someone called me a PS3 hater in all honesty I wouldn't care. I jumped on the Wii bandwagon during E3. I went anti-Sony during E3. I thought that the PS2 was the best system of the last consoles. Some of my favorite RPG's were on the PS1. But Sony has ticked me off and I'm not buying a PS3 any time soon.

I like this site and its news stories... that's why I'm here. But people, like you, are bashing the Wii over a RUMOR that was posted by ZEUS as a FACT. I'm obviously going to stick up for the Wii since I like it. That doesn't make me an idiot.

MadonnaProject, you can say my name when your talking against me.

um, actually i didnt talk against you in particular. to me i was just reading through some of the posts made earlier and chose to voice my opinion for some of the stuff i read. dont take everything so personally, its just videogames.

PLUS i can guarantee it a 100% that this info about the nintendo wii is absolutely correct. i for one think zeus cuts too much slack to nintendo frankly. not the other way around. but what i love about this site is that i can talk about underground stuff that other websites dont allow. and i am sure this guy works VERY HARD to bring us every little bit of info he does around the clock. and i appreciate that. even though most of the news is about the wii release dates and the nintendo d*ck sucker (ds).

[smudgeone]

dreary79, these specs are pretty much just exact numbers from the range that IGN posted a while ago on the system specs. These numbers are probably the closest thing we will ever get to exact numbers for the Wii, so why not just live with it. And from what we saw at E3, there shouldn't be any denile that these are close.


I just thought of something, even though the system supposedly "revs down" for gamecube games, do you think its possible that it can force non-progressive scan games into that window? Progressive scan creates a clearer picture, though not a higher resolution one. It may not allow anything fancy as far as bumping up the framerate on slow games because that much is obviouly hard-coded, but it would be nice if it could be able to rev back up to prevent slowdown would be nice (4 rare Pokemon in SSBM for example).

[JSR]

It's interesting how people are now agressive as their dream fall (about the wii).

[daps83777]

well said dreary79. I am more upset about the fact that the article is being touted as fact. Sure the system specs bother me, because i think they will be better than that. According to numbers coming out of sony, they raised the sticker price (the price we will pay on release day) $200-$300 because of the bluray drive. so say the system cost $200 less. taken the different versions to $300 and $400. know the difference is that sony is taking a loss on top of that, just as microsoft is. but people keep saying you get what you pay for. well you can get a 360 for $300. if the Wii comes out at $250 then that really isn't that big of a price difference, so why is it that everyone thinks these systems will be so extremely different in specs. i'm sure the Wii specs will be lower, but based on price they don't have to be as far away as people think. architectures of the systems are also different, and processor speed isn't always important. just like amd processors, a 3500+ isn't clocked at 3.5ghz, yet it is as fast as an intel chip clocked at 3.5ghz.

I use to unfortunately be a sony fanboy, i have said that before, i think people hate me even more because I use to be one of them. I think the PS2 was the best of the last gen. I think the PS2 has alot of steam left it is still beating the 360 I believe in sales. Eyecandy doesn't mean anything if it isn't fun.

Nintendo Wii games don't have to use the Wiimote, Super smash brothers isn't, and its a first party game from nintendo, it uses the classice controller, if a company doesn't want to use the Wiimote they don't have to, so you wusses that ccomplain about playing for a while after work need to beef up or something.

alot of the Wii bad press originally came from third party companies such as EA that said they weren't going to work on the Wii. Well all of a sudden after E3 they are putting out an additional 6 games, that have been announced so far. these big third party games want sony to do well, they want to get rich by charging over $60 a game.

i think all these people that believe that sony can't be beat are bashing Wii because they are scared that Nintendo is going to compete for the first time since snes. Nintendo use to treat third party companies badly, thats part of the reason that nintendo has had problems the last couple of systems. But know they are embracing third parties knowing that if they do they have a fighting chance.

Finally no one knows the Wii specs except for the people actually developing games for it. I have a feeling they all signed non disclosure agreements, and would probably have legal action taken against them for revealing the specs, thats the way console makers have always done it until the reveal things like system specs publicly. So if you want to keep bashing the Wii go for it, but if you can't tell me the absolutely right specs as revealed from nintendo then, you need to be respectfull and only talk about facts. If you don't have them then how can you have anything intelligent to say about the specs? you can't. its pretty simple.

i thought of something else. if the Wii is so slow and barely faster than a Gamecube why would it hav to slow down to play gamecube games, your talking about very little speed increase. and again if you want to bash the ds as well go for it, but remember it is kicking the crap out of the psp in sales, and the only reason the sales in Japan aren't higher for the ds is because it is always sold out and you get to see more like a couple of weeks out of the month sales, not really full month because the ds is sold out so much. And can you stop swearing? it really makes people sound like they aren't very intelligent, especially in a technical thread like this one.

[chukz]

open your eyes to the fact that these specs are CONFIRMED nintendo wii specs.

NO. If they were confirmed Nintendo wii specs you would see them on the OFFICIAL NINTENDO WEBSITE.

You obviously hate Nintendo, and think it's stupid. That's fine, you have no business in this thread then. This is for Nintendo Fans that want to talk about Nintendo, without the occasional idiot running in here, rambling about some useless crap NO ONE CARES ABOUT.

MadonnaProject go join ThePinacchioTeam, your both good at making fun of nintendo, and dooming it before the system is out. No one needs your opinions.

THAT IS FACT!

If you get your pleasures from laughing at a videogame console, frankly you need to find better things to do.

On a side note:
well you can get a 360 for $300. if the Wii comes out at $250 then that really isn't that big of a price difference,
This does make sense, for anyone that says "You get what you pay for" well the Xbox360 has been at $300 when it came out in 2005 and 1 year later, if Nintendo is releasing a console for $250 surely it cannot be the same thing as a GameCube.

Idiots cannot seem to comprehend this logic.

**EDIT**
AND my point was, that MOST of the people in the world will be playing MGS4 and HALO3, and nintendo is still stuck up on pokemon.

Nice to see you can predict the future.

Look obviously you hate nintendo, go hate somewhere else. We don't need your ramblings over here.

We all like videogames, from ALL consoles. To bash one console in favor of another makes YOU the fanboy, not me. I'm simply stating how rumors can be mistaken as facts. There is no way in hell you can sit there and say that these are 100% Guaranteed Iron Clad facts about the Nintendo Wii. AND if for some weird reason these are the specs, well look at Sony last year's E3 (2005) and now (2006), what happened to two HDMI ports? what happened to 6 ethernet sockets, 7 Wi-Fi controllers and all that? And Sony actually announced those THEMSELVES and changed it completely. This information about the Wii isn't even posted BY NINTENDO, you can no way consider it fact. WAKE UP.

[daps83777]

well this doesn't back up Wii graphics being as good as PS3 graphics, but it says they may be as good as the 360's. take it with a grain of salt, though apparently people can't do that on this website. This is from a reliable source according to the author, all Wii haters need to read it, if your brave enough

http://www.mozlapunk.net/homepage/?p=41

[chukz]

well no matter what is posted, it's just rumor.

if an article came out tomorrow saying Wii's graphics will be on par with PS3, half the bandwagon jumpers would immediately switch sides.

if an article came out tomorrow saying Wii's graphics will be like Super Nintendo's graphics, people would just switch sides again.

Wait until final details are posted, in the meanwhile all this useless ranting/yelling/replying is just causing more anger and hatred and flaming.

In 2 weeks an article can come out disproving everything we know so far, so let's wait until Nintendo posts final stats, and let the rumors die.

Just like in 2 weeks if an article came out saying PS3 will not be as powerful, it changes what we know. Wait till the system is out then we can see.

If moderators can read this please lock the thread, it's causing too much anger/hatred :cool:

[daps83777]

this seems like pretty big difference between gamecube and Wii, we are talking about only seeing the very first Wii games. so here is some comparison pics http://gamerfrance.verygames.net/wii/comparwii.jpg

article from ati saying Wii will look better than people are expecting.
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=61928

this is all stuff based on fact. though i'm sure some people will say the Wii graphics don't look that good.

[GameDev]

<--- gone --->

[dreary79]

If this article is so true then why doesn't Zeus just post and let us know how true it is? Come on Zeus... I just want to hear you say that you know the source and you know that he is telling the 100% truth. You tell us that and I'll be ok with it. The only thing I won't be ok with is if the Wii comes out at $250 with no games and the Wii only has the specs listed in this article. If it's $200 then so be it... it will be well worth it.

[daps83777]

actually alot of people have full dev kits now, and square enix has had one longer than anyone. no one has said how long they have had one but square has had one for a very long time. that is fact and can be confirmed on the internet.and saying that it is confirmed that the Wii is 1.5x more powerful than a gamecube isn't been confirmed anywhere, almost everything you said is speculation made from other sites. give it a break, can someone please make intelligent statements?

[xiaNaix]

Brilliant, yet pathetic, way to drum up traffic for the site. I'll have to post some fake Wii specs to PS2-Scene as well. :p

[GameDev]

<--- gone --->

[dreary79]

Suuuuuure they do :)

If you were so in the KNOW, then you would know the specs of the Wii, which you don't, but will know soon, I wager.

3rd party developers are you GCs for development. The Wiimote connects to the GC dev kit via a gamecube connector. Hardly anyone has actual final wii hardware, those that do are lucky to wrench some from Nintendo's 1st party developers.

GameDevGameDev, your right that the original Wii dev kits were just a Wiimote attachment to the Gamecube, but you saying that no development team has a real Wii Dev kit? And that you work for Nintendo and are posting this stuff on this site? Why here? Zeus is this really your informant?

[chukz]

umm.. Mr. "GameDev" (with 3 posts gee i wonder if he is new?)

how can you both "CONFIRM" the main topic, and yet show different statistics?

Main article says it has 64mb of memory, you say 88?

You really need a life.

Lock this topic already it's got to the point where it's just pathetic.

[daps83777]

no one ever reads my posts or reads my links. http://www.mozlapunk.net/homepage/?p=41

this is an old article, talks about all sorts of stuff, including how square was the first third party to receive a final Wii dev kit, and have had it for a long time, and that first and second party devs have also had them. so if you think other companies haven't gotten final devs kits when the Wii is rumored to have been in production for a few months now, then you have another thing coming. this is documented. this topic gets out of hand because people speak before they know anything. i have been following the Wii very closely, if i don't like a system i'm not going to follow its news very carefully. so please stop posted these posts that much you look like someone just running off there mouth.

[Robotron]

Ok so let's say Sony said the PS3 would have:
2 HDMI outputs
3 ethernet ports
7 Bluetooth
Boomarang controller

and then an insider tells us:

No HDMI (unless you buy an advanced model and then only one output)
1 ethernet port
4 Bluetooth
Wii ripoff controller with no vibration

Would they post it here? Because when there were a few reports on Sony not keeping their promises (like always) no site would run that information.
It's all very tiring this whole "Sony is god" "Nintendo is kiddy" crap.
Proof that it doesn't take much to sway the simple mind of the masses.

[GameDev]

<--- gone --->

[GameDev]

<--- gone --->

[chukz]

The whole thing about that is SONY themselves said they would put that stuff into ALL PS3 units, and actually made fun of MS for having 2 consoles.

Now they removed all those features, and are doing same thing MS is doing.

The key thing is SONY POSTED ALL OF THAT INFORMATION, IT IS ALL OFFICIAL.

What is known about the Wii (the majority of it) IS UNOFFICIAL, NOT 100%, and even if Nintendo says "Wii will have a 100MHz CPU" in 3 weeks they can change it to 2.0GHz and then 2 weeks later bring it to 1.5GHz. Just like PS3 showed up a boomerang and called it a controller, then later went back to the same controller it used before (without rumble), and just like MS said that Xbox360 will be the High Definition standard, and doesn't include a high definition movie player out the box, then makes you BUY ONE SEPARATELY (hello SegaCD?).
COMPANIES CHANGE THEIR MINDS, the ONLY DIFFERENCE is that Nintendo Does Not Post Any Information like the other consoles did.

Sony first announced specs of it's PS3 in 2005, more than 1.5 years before it will launch. And they changed it already less than 8 months before launch at E3 when they showed 2 PS3 units, no 2xHDMI and all that crap.

Nintendo (with a console launching in less than 3-4 months) STILL HAS NOT POSTED CONCRETE INFORMATION! that's not what they do.

The noob Sony and MS fanboys are used to having numbers thrown at them that they can't understand to brag about, 99% of them don't even know what a godamn FLOP is but as long as they can tell their friends "3.2GFLOPS man" that's all they need to convince them to buy a console. Meanwhile when you play a videogame, ALL those stats mean nothing, because guess what no one gives a crap if you can see a squirrel gather nuts in a tree when you are racing by at 100km/h! Again this is something noobs can't understand. They read these numbers now for instant gratification, and later when you play games on the console those numbers couldn't mean any less. You don't sit and say "wow i can really see the 3.2GFLOPS in this game!" because 99% of the time the system can't even render that much, so instead of giving REAL information, they just give PEAK PERFORMANCE that you can NEVER see in real life situations and throw in the key words like "giga" and "mega" and noobs are stunned at how much numbers they can see.

Nintendo does NOT take this route, they don't promise you performance that you will never be able to see, they tell you it will look "GREAT" instead of saying all tehse technical specs that are going to confuse people, and just get noobs to memorize the numbers and spew them at other noobs to try and get everyone to hop on and spew the same jibberish all over the place.

It's time to WAKE UP. The specs you see for ANY CONSOLE (FINAL SPECS, NOT MADE UP RUMORS) will only be the BEST that you can ever get. Don't let the media control you, use your brain.

[daps83777]

one of the biggest problems with this topic is that the specs given on the first page of the thread, would be that it would make the Wii bottleknecked. something that we know isn't going to happen. the fact that these specs are false is evident the more you look at them. every site that has picked up on this supposed maxconsole exclusive have in majority thought this to be a bogus story based on the wording and tech specs not even lining up with the few specs we actually have been told. some people need to learn how to stop hating nintendo, what did they do to you? oh wait, without them gaming probably wouldn't be were it is today, without them the ps1 wouldn't have existed because sony wouldn't have been able to steal it from nintendo in a joint venture they were doing for a super nintendo cd add on.

so sony fanboys should be grateful that nintendo exists, where else is sony going to get there idea's because apparently they copy all of nintendo's, and people that say other companies had motion sensing before nintendo are wrong. it was called the power glove back in the original nes days. nintendo has always been trying to innovate, yet they are the ones that created the modern dpad and even the analog. but of course nintendo never does anything good right?

[MadonnaProject]

well this doesn't back up Wii graphics being as good as PS3 graphics, but it says they may be as good as the 360's. take it with a grain of salt, though apparently people can't do that on this website. This is from a reliable source according to the author, all Wii haters need to read it, if your brave enough

http://www.mozlapunk.net/homepage/?p=41


NO! OH GOD....TELL ME YOU SERIOUSLY DONOT THINK THAT THE WII GRAPHICS COULD IN ANY WAY IN HELL COMPARE TO THE XBOX 360....

and what the hell is this? they might not be upto ps3 standards but they MIGHT be upto 360 standards? do you even know that the difference between the ps3 and the xbox 360 is NEGLIGIBLE?

i cant believe i am talking with noobies. how ive fallen....:eek:

[chukz]

that article has as much merit as the one posted on maxconsole.net

You can't trust any of them 100%.

Wait until Nintendo shows what it's gonna do, other than that we are all really just making asses out of ourselves trying to unravel the mystery.

And for what, once we find all facts all these posts will be useless.

Also this is just another publicity stunt by someone to get more attention, and look, 6 pages of replies later, it's done it's job very well.

No one knows the facts about PS3 and Wii, the only thing we know for sure is about Xbox360 because it's already out. Just gotta wait it out.

[et100]

LOL! This is a joke. LOL! GDDR3?? LOL!!!!!!

Maxconsole is trying so hard to be the gaming website like GameSpot or IGN, trying to get all the 'exclusive' stuff. Like this BS story, and DS Lite keep being broken easy.. Well, I still haven't found ANYBODY that has broken DS lite.

Do you know why Maxconsole tries so hard to convince about DS cracking and all the BS rumors about every nex-gen consoles? They think they're the media/press. They think they represent something to the gaming community. They've found something that less than 0.5% of DS lite owners are dealing with and they think they got the story! Look how Maxconsole is pushing it.

Well, under my Favorite bookmark, Maxconsole is still under "Console Mods". Sure, this website doesn't contain anything illegal links, but you can't deny that this website contains informations about modding the consoles, encouraging software piracy.

Don't throw this bullcrap to make fanboys jump out of the seat. I know that you're just trying to increase the monthly-hit number, therefore can get more support from mod-shops, but this is new low. Trying to make money out of people who rip off the gaming company/industry with piracy..

If you think you represent something on gaming community, like piracy or homebrews, do your job in that field by posting many more homebrew news/devs/projects. And for God's sake do it fairly. Only supporting PSP dev scene.. pfff..

[frantici]

Please for the love of god do not compare the wii cpu to an xbox intel cpu.. they are a completly different arch. and speedwise the power pc (wii) beats and xbox(intel) cpu ..
If i remember correctly a 300mhz power pc has about the equal processing power of an intel 800mhz.

The next thing, stop bitching about the price with unknown specs and unknown price ..

But if 250$ is the launch price for Wii i would be more than willing to part my hard earned cash to it, even if it's "just" a tid bit more powerful than the cube.

Considering they have added (if the specs are fact or based on fact)
1.wireless ethernet adapter
2.512 built-in flash memory
3.An awesome controller

And I bet that they release it with a couple of free old skool games..

Signing off
Frantic Illusion

[SONIC]

Wellie well, looks like this site started a flamewar... again ;)
I too believe, that all this wanna-be Gamespot news is killing this site.
When I joined MaxConsole, it wasn't for console news, but for the hacking part, and help with hacking and modding.
I really think this site needs to get rid of the "Oh ****, we got news, you saw it here first" attitude, before the ship sinks totally.

And for the credibility of the source... what? A game developer tells a hacking site some "major" news? You do not in all honesty believe in that now do you? If this was true, it would be all over the interweb. Also... a dev talking to a hacker site? Naw, just naw man!

[SONIC]

Please for the love of god do not compare the wii cpu to an xbox intel cpu.. they are a completly different arch. and speedwise the power pc (wii) beats and xbox(intel) cpu ..
If i remember correctly a 300mhz power pc has about the equal processing power of an intel 800mhz.

The next thing, stop bitching about the price with unknown specs and unknown price ..

But if 250$ is the launch price for Wii i would be more than willing to part my hard earned cash to it, even if it's "just" a tid bit more powerful than the cube.

Considering they have added (if the specs are fact or based on fact)
1.wireless ethernet adapter
2.512 built-in flash memory
3.An awesome controller

And I bet that they release it with a couple of free old skool games..

Signing off
Frantic Illusion

Oh yeah, the Power PC from IBM is ofcourse more powerful than an Intel CPU. If you all followed how the G4 Power PC CPU worked contra the Intel CPU's back when Apple still made G4's, you would know stuff about MHz-myths and so on. Basically Power PC's was (and still are) faster than X86 CPU's, even though they run at written lower MHz. The architecture of the Power PC made it faster.

[Havok154]

Oh yeah, the Power PC from IBM is ofcourse more powerful than an Intel CPU. If you all followed how the G4 Power PC CPU worked contra the Intel CPU's back when Apple still made G4's, you would know stuff about MHz-myths and so on. Basically Power PC's was (and still are) faster than X86 CPU's, even though they run at written lower MHz. The architecture of the Power PC made it faster.
Well that was true before the current gen of x86 processors. The gap between them is small if non-existant. But I agree, back in the day the Power PC did have a better architecture, just not anymore.

[thePANICHIOteam]

LOL! This is a joke. LOL! GDDR3?? LOL!!!!!!
Whats so funny about that :confused:

It makes sense doesnt it? Thats a good thing, it can handle graphics better but it can also be used as standard memory not just video memory. The PS3 will use it too for their graphics set up. The 360 also has 512mb of DDR3 memory I believe?

[extermin8tor]

hey i know, nintendo is trying to compete with the playstation 2 and xbox 1,
see, when they released the gamecube they were trying to kill the ps1 and dreamcast.
maybe when the wii 2 or whatever the f*** rolls around they might even try and compete with the ps3 and xbox 360.
by then windows vista and directx 10 should have rolled around. (probly about 2008 :)

[N-Outsider]

-:rolleyes: i pown you im just a fake

[Royal Fool]

Blah blah blah
I had a hard time understanding half of what you said there (Protip: Work on your typing skills), but I suppose your screenshot is legit. Good for you, let's just hope you didn't post that from your home computer... you know, IP tracing and all that. ;)

[kronikdaddy]

Yeah, im pissed 2, i have proof of alien's and the desighn plan's to make a spaceship with a hyperdrive and transperter's, also i have the evidence that proves who relly killed kennedy. but im not going to release it because dude with the 360sdk and the Wii stuff is full of B$. LOL!!!

[infinity2005]

The reason why this news came out to maxconsole first is because its from a leaked SDK which is circulating in the scene. The information all appears to be from RVL_Overview.pdf which is included with the SDK. So yes its all 100% true, although it should be noted the document was made in March...

[Sepioth]

Zeus. You say the thread was updated with some new info. PLEASE don't tell me it was that illiterate crap from N-Outsider.

I'm still not sure what he was actually trying to say. What new info was gathered from that garbage of a post. That he is a loser that claims he has every Dev Kit for all the new systems? PFHHH ... whatever. BTW I have plans for building a teleportation device as well as a time machine but HAHAHAHA i'm not giving it out its all mine .. MINE I TELL YOU

Hmm .. interesting picture but i'm not entirely sure its real (kinda like the sys specs here). Going to warioware.com/wii/ gives me a 404 error. If it was a real location on thier site shouldn't it maybe pop up an Unauthorized or LogIn screen. Or maybe redirect me to the Home page? I could be wrong here though.

Also if this is a real "dev" that horrible grammar and punctuation could really explain why there are so many bugs in games nowadays :)

Oh and one last thing ... what does that screenshot actually prove .. that you have a screenshot of the Nintendo dev website. Take a few shots of the PDF's post them here. Better yet post the actual PDF's.

[infinity2005]

That picture most likely is real, and the PDFs are watermarked so posting them would be retarded and get the warioworld.com account closed for whoever obtained it. The grammar isnt from the document its been reworded from the full version. All those idiots earlier in the thread can shut up now.

edit:
http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/6914/wiicpuspecsoa9.jpg

[juanmiglesias]

:mad: i hate to see people talking like analists, we can say a s**t about wii nor ps3, there are too many differences between CPU chips, ram, video, etc. just look for Intel D clock speed and a p4 CLOCK SPEED, you cant compare and xbox, wii or ps3 just by the speed, its stupid, the only way to compare in that way is using the same cpu class, with the same logic, if you have a pentium 3 at 1gz, vs a p4 at 1.0ghz, guess wich one will win. same for ram, video etc.

how hard is to get this, also if you want to trash on any console wait till you actually play it. i can say wii is good or not, same for ps3, i just know ill wait till i play one and decide myself after seen some titles.

so stop talking like you know byt the specs if it has good graphics or not, how good it will be!. wait till you play it.
just a little advice.:D

[dsman]

Hey it's easy to know from where it come from...
The group that released Ensata 1.4d (EXPERiENCE) must had a ww account to get this internal tool. And in the nfo, they stated that : "Wii will be back soon". So they must have the Wii SDK too.

[Radiozo]

Dont care how fast the Wii is. Im getting it for the games. I also own a 360 and will buy a PS3 later this year. And guess what. Ive bought my 360 because of the games and I will buy the PS3 because of the games. I dont care about the graphics.

[Mr.Do!]

those specs look all right to me. especially since Wii does not need a 5200ghz processor to render HD graphics and act like a computer when it really is not one.

Besides whats with all the bashing??? Are people that insecure over what game system they want. Buy what makes you happy. Why the need to bash on a piece of electronics.. Its not like its your sports team vs mine.. Its a damn game console. I guess i just dont get it.

[Maximilianop]

jojojojoj, So freaking fuynny !!!
To think a thread would deploy 8 pages of posts this fast.....

"So a Wii developer decided to send Zeus of Maxconsole (a hacking site) the information on the Wii. He doesn't send it to EGM, IGN, or Gamespot, he tells Zues of Maxconsole. That's like Bush finding Weapons of Mass Destruction and giving the information to the National Inquisitor."
Well, this could be the perfect way to "Let it be known" and "Don´t be cracked down so easily" ...

Anyways... WHO FUCKING REALLY CARES ABOUT SPECS???

Do I buy a RADEON 9800 PRO just because it has so much horse power than a NV6600 ?? No, I Buy a NV6000GT Just because it KNOWS how to use the horse power...


Seeing the 500-600 price tag of the PS3... I know I WILL NEVER buy it.. Don´t care if it can recreate the last pixel of Jessica Alba´s sweet ass on the screen... Games have been from bad to worst and pukeable....

XBOX 360 - Has my eternal hatred becausew of being "Another MS powered product" Good, but defective....

WII Will be alongside my GC 2 months after launch, why ? I have nothing to despice of it... It will have good video, good sound, not the best... It will have innovative controller, wi-fi lan connection, a HECK of hackability (believe me, the fact of being GC compatible gets it to be FULLY hackable) And my favorite franchasings, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Smash Bros, nintendo sports games, Electronics Arts, etc. It will has a soooo big knowledge base that even the first games will be masterpieces compared to PS2 and XBOX 1, and I wouldn´t be surprised if even better than various XBOX 360´s.

And the best part: PRICE. Every father which will be buying the kiddo a console, will chose Wii, why? price. Fathers don´t care if the console can have photorealistic renderings... They care the fucking child gets occupied with something and leaves him alone to take a needed rest.



Is this post a fake? Who knows.... I certainly don´t care...
Is this post good for maxconsole... surely it didn´t give it low hits...
Was this post predictable... Hell YES.


Good nights !

[orrefan]

i doubt that these facts are true. But don't forget that MHz isn't everything! A lot depends on how well the architecture is made.

[Paul_K]

just a tip when you want to make a FAKE believable to the people :

DO NOT write so many details and so many repeatable things - it uncovers your agony to make this believable to the people

[re4de2ye0]

Doesn't Nintendo have two big shows coming up here soon to talk about the Wii, so why not save the flaming till it comes from the only source that matters. As far as all this talk of specs if I cared about specs I would be a pc gamer, I like a lot of people work on a pc all day so when I get a chance to get away from that I enjoy picking up a controller and having some fun. As far as PS3 goes I will wait till it dips below at least $500 for the premium I am not paying $600 that is outrageous. You could build a decent computer for that, or you could get a 360 and Wii and have 4 consoles instead of 2. You would get backwards compatibility from Xbox and Gamecube so you have a ton of great titles, most of which are bargain priced now. Also if Sony continues on this no re-selling games deal, there are in for a wake up call. I love the fact that I can go into gamestop and pick up a $10 title for my Gamecube, won't be able to do that with a PS3. Just my .02

[chukz]

also odd is how that link to the .pdf picture in the topic says "REVOLUTION" , which, Nintendo confirmed had plans to change the name sometime near December2005/January2006.

I think someguy is just trying to peddle a lot of crap, and back it up by saying "he was one of the developers that got a free Wii devkit" or whatever the news was a few days ago.

This was just a marketing ploy, you see 8 pages of threads filled with adverts all over... tell me Maxconsole didn't make some money? tell me more companies will try to post on their website now that they saw a surge in unique website hits.

Good job Maxconsole, at the risk of losing credibility, you've managed to get a huge amount of hits quickly.

[et100]

Whats so funny about that :confused:

It makes sense doesnt it? Thats a good thing, it can handle graphics better but it can also be used as standard memory not just video memory. The PS3 will use it too for their graphics set up. The 360 also has 512mb of DDR3 memory I believe?


1. DDR3 is not even out yet. If you're confused between GDDR and DDR, google will help you. :cool:
2. Nintendo uses SRAM, or Static-RAM, which is one of the fastest RAM on the market. That's why only with 40ish RAM, Gamecube could've load the graphics of RE4.
3. This rumor craps about Wii using GDDR3 as MAIN memory. If you want GDDR3 to run as fast/efficient as SRAM, you'll need whole a lot of it.

The chip maker already confirmed and started manufacturing SRAM for Wii. This news is old already.

Man, Maxconsole really is ripping people off who doesn't know well about computers....

[nukleuzdj]

A non HD console is going to need less power from the start, it does not need to output 1080p/i (whatever) so a lot less power is needed in the first place,

[daps83777]

thats true, hd content eats up at minimum 20% of the gpu and 20% of the cpu, so as soon as you make a game high def, you are loosing that much power for all the other stuff in the game.

i also found it funny that the link to that pdf page said revolution, makes me think that it was specs from an old dev kit and is way off. also ati and ibm where supposedly doing tons of work for the Wii missing with clock speeds and what not. if this story was true, the Wii should have been out before the 360. the Wii is not going to be a glorified gamecube.

Square enix wouldn't even consider making something like Dragon Quest IX exclusive to Wii if they thought the system wasn't going to do well, and the graphics weren't going to be that good. Yet rumor has it that they are considering it. and they seem to be more willing than ever to make games for nintendo consoles.

[infinity2005]

If you are still arguing that this is a rumour you are an idiot. Who should we trust, a random person on a forum or the latest official SDK, hrm i wonder. The whole SDK is filled with references to revolution much like the GC SDK still calls it Dolphin, so thats an irrelevant point The document the information is from is dated March 2006 which is the last it was updated. The peron who sent the news to maxconsole is certainly not an anonymous developer however...

Some of you are going to look like fools when the specs are officially announced and IDENTICAL to this news.

[daps83777]

well we won't look as bad as the people that believe this is fact :rolleyes:

[infinity2005]

The people who believe its fact are either intelligent enough to assess the evidence and points in this thread which show its real, or have seen the SDK themselves. The Ensata point is most obvious, you can only get that from warioworld.com or a developer, so whoever obtained must have access to the Wii SDK which is where all this information is coming from. The specs are real, get over it.

[daps83777]

are you an insider that can verify this as fact? game developers are against people that hack consoles and pirate there games, so why would an insider from a game developer reveal this info exclusively to a hacking site?

i think this is a stunt to bring hits to this site which brings money to the creators of the site usually through people clicking on the ads and what not.

[thePANICHIOteam]

1. DDR3 is not even out yet. If you're confused between GDDR and DDR, google will help you. :cool:
2. Nintendo uses SRAM, or Static-RAM, which is one of the fastest RAM on the market. That's why only with 40ish RAM, Gamecube could've load the graphics of RE4.
3. This rumor craps about Wii using GDDR3 as MAIN memory. If you want GDDR3 to run as fast/efficient as SRAM, you'll need whole a lot of it.

The chip maker already confirmed and started manufacturing SRAM for Wii. This news is old already.

Man, Maxconsole really is ripping people off who doesn't know well about computers....
Im sorry I meant GDDR3. My sincerest apologies for my typo. :)

Before I start I dont really know any more than you do.

GDDR3 is SDRAM isnt it? GDDR3 isnt slow it can run at up to 8 Gigabytes per second. It is IDEAL for games consoles.
The 360 utilizes it and it is 3 times faster than the memory used in the original xbox.

All my points i mention still stand, the 360 has GDDR3, the PS3 will also. Its also used in GeForce FX 5700 Ultra, nVidia's GeForce 6800 Ultra, GeForce 5950 Ultra and on Radeon X800 cards.

What is so unbelievable about the wii utilizing GDDR3 technology. Dont you think you are being unescesarily pedantic.

Heres what MS had to say
"We're very pleased that Samsung has been able to provide us with a majority of the graphics memory needed during the Xbox 360's ramp-up stage. GDDR3 is a critical factor in enabling us to provide the best overall gaming and entertainment experience," said Greg Gibson, director of Console Development, Microsoft.


And there partners in crime Samsung
"We're thrilled to work with Microsoft to provide the most popular, high-end graphics memory made today, Samsung's GDDR3, which will be a part of the first true multimedia entertainment console for consumers," said Nam Young Cho, Executive Vice President, Global Sales & Marketing, Samsung Electronics.

The chief benefit to gamers will be higher resolution images and faster rendering, while Its first real world implementation will likely be in the upcoming next gen consoles, the Sony PS3, Microsoft Xbox360 and Nintendo Revolution.

[infinity2005]

The information is from someone who obtained the SDK not a game developer. I think i explained this already. Ensata from the NDS SDK shows up cracked, now confidential information from the Wii SDK, you think its a coincidence?

[dreary79]

When was the SDK proven as fact?

[daps83777]

i think that all the sony fanboys are just trying to miss with anyone that even likes nintendo. if he got all this info like he said then we should see it in is natural state, it wouldn't be that hard for this so called insider to show us it. if thats true also you are saying that nintendo doesn't know how to use technical terms because alot of them are wrong or used incorrectly. if it was an official document there would not be any such errors.

any type of ducoment can be forged, if you don't think it can, then you need to go back to school or something. people can make claims about all sorts of stuff, they even forge documents that try and look authentic, it doesn't mean they are.

[infinity2005]

you are in denial, both are you are stupid and im not saying anything more on the subject except the fact its 100% real and im not leaking tagged documents from the sdk to prove it

[FeistyGirl]

Who the hell really cares about specs...

If specs were the most important thing then the PS2 would have been stomped by the XBox and Gamecube...

Here is the important question:

Are the games fun to play?

If the answer to that question is 'Yes', then I will be all over the console like a fat kid on cake.

Who really cares what the Clock Speed or Cache size is... tech whores, that's all... And those aren't the people the Wii is catered towards...

It was said best at E3 by Reggie...

"The Wii is not Next-Generation... it is New-Generation"

I beleive this statement completely... Nintendo just needs to be able to back this up with the gameplay...

When the DS came out a lot of people said the Dual and Touch Screens were a novelty at best... but Nintendo was able to capitolize on this and created a console that is truly original and fun, regardless of the fact that the overall technology is pathetic at best compared to the PSP, and it is running hand in hand with the PSP in regards to sales...

In short: Don't be a tech whore.... be a gameplay whore... you will be a much happier gamer.

[daps83777]

look at the specs he gave, nintendo said they will use dual layered discs and won't use any sided discs, yet these specs show the Wii using sided media as well. there are multiple things like this that keep popping up everytime i read it. its a joke. you won't admit your wrong its kinda funny. if a sony document like this came out that was had this many errors and iregularities everyone would cry foul, but if its for the Wii it is fact. thats pretty pathetic.

[zshadow]

look at the specs he gave, nintendo said they will use dual layered discs and won't use any sided discs, yet these specs show the Wii using sided media as well. there are multiple things like this that keep popping up everytime i read it. its a joke. you won't admit your wrong its kinda funny. if a sony document like this came out that was had this many errors and iregularities everyone would cry foul, but if its for the Wii it is fact. thats pretty pathetic.

This info comes from official SDK, why the hell would Nintendo put fake specs in the documents? Its no joke, you're wrong, end of story.

[MadonnaProject]

It SHOCKS me how so many of these morons are basically uninformed, uneducated, not very TECH-SAVVY noobie pieces of human refuse....

THEN i am SHOCKED at the utter calm Zeus is showing. If this were my website all the nerds dissing me would be GONE. it would happen on gamespot. because most of these losers are insulting the very forum theyre on, which is this site. hey if you think maxconsole is TRYING to be IGN and Gamespot, then maybe youd like to leave. or maybe the fact that this website is not FUDGING INUNDATED with popups of movie clips and animation ads, and banner ads and picture ads that its too much for you to bear. If only this wasnt increasing the hits on the site, i am sure zeus would be really sick of you misinformed nerds right now.

ALSO i am willing to bet MOST of the people in denial about this FACTUAL piece of information are americans. consider the evidence: theyre jumping the gun when pitting the blame, theyre not believing when they have somehting in their face, theyre horribly well certain of themselves even when they dont know crap. AND theyre immensely uninformed. (and then when somehting youre showing them comes out to be true tomorrow, theyre all like "oh no, like why didnt like anyone, like warn us about the plane like y'know, like total bummer, like, totally, like someones gonna pay, like lets kill another nation like". and the rest of the world rolls their eyes and goes "WE TOLD YOU SO AGES AGO - oh well, there goes another lot of illegally migrated mexicans, trying to be legals, up in an american army shaped smoke".

lol.:rolleyes: :D ;)

(hey its just humor, take it with a pinch of salt).

[dreary79]

I have yet to be able to see the official SDK. Give me a download please! PM me a link if you don't want Nintendo to know.

EDIT: ProjectModonna, if Zeus wants to ban us for arguing with his post I guess that he can. He's done it to Gamecube fans before.

[daps83777]

your one of those people, you must like sony. arrogant, disrespectfull, calling names like a child would. i want proof that the sdk is real, and even at ES nintendo said the specs weren't finalized in fact after E3 they made a deal with a new ram company, and a couple others. E3 was in what, may? so we already know the document is not accurate just because of that, and thats only if it is even real, which there has been no proof to show that it is.

[joe90]

Honestly.. some of you lot are tards.

im not paying xxx for a xbox spec..
2 things:

1) my s2000 is a 2L engine.. so does a ford focus.. which is faster, and does everything better?

2) a Ariel atom runs a 2L engine, and is far faster round the track than a porsche 3.6 turbo

just remember that.. its not all about the engine, put that porsche engine in a mini... and its not going to work well is it.

[thePANICHIOteam]

This info comes from official SDK, why the hell would Nintendo put fake specs in the documents? Its no joke, you're wrong, end of story.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LMAO 9 pages on this thread, the only guy to really say anything that counts sums it up in one line. hahahahahahaha.

Dreary daps if you want proof of the SDK get it yourselves, dont try stirring the sh*t so someone sends it to you. How dumb do you think people are? Wait for all the info to pop up on IGN or something. Oh wait they already have it but they just drip feed crap about the controller needing two AA batteries. How many sites linked to that crap about the controller?

Im not posting any more about this.


You turned a sweet story very very sour. It was all for your own potential gains. Just read zshadows post and feisty girls post. They are the only one really worth reading. So lets now move on

[daps83777]

your right it was a sweet story, the kind of story that the sony fanboys want to hear so they can bash nintendo. why didn't we get the specs in the same format as the site, if they were ripped from the site then why aren't they posted that way. its pretty easy for someone to say go find it yourself, its a pretty big cop out. if someone wants to talk about it then provide it. if you went to court and talked about a document they would make you provide, they wouldn't go and say ok we will take your word on it.

[rider604]

Wii is not next gen and I wish Nintendo would stop with the marketing hype and lies.

Nintendo has always targetted handhelds and kiddie market and will remain so.

The only show left is between the next gen big boys - Xbox360 and PS3.

Bye bye Wii.

800MHZ CPU? who are they trying to compete against? Xbox? :D

[daps83777]

i love how we keep getting all these new members and there first post is to bash the Wii. what a shock huh :rolleyes:

[rider604]

Folks, there's nothing to argue here.
The specs posted may or may not be true but I'm pretty sure the actual specs are close.

I mean come on, look at the games previewed for the Wii so far. THEY ARE NOT NEXT GEN. Yes they are better than Xbox but not by much and certainly not on the same level as the Xbox360/PS3.

Time to close this thread.

[chukz]

People are just afraid of what they don't know.
So they start bashing the Wii. Like all the people that have doomed this console before it's even been released, once it comes out, and once it does well, you will never hear from them again. They are just angry they spent all their money on "next gen" hardware and have nothing to prove for it but rehashed sequels that only look decent when played in High Definition.

It's easy to poke fun of the Wii too, hardware not as powerful, funny name, so they just get together and think "well there is no way it can do good, it doesn't have 3.0GHz+CPU!!"

Soon everyone will find out that it's not all about the MHz and Polygons.
If it were about the MHz and Polygons, (like feisty girl said) then the Xbox should have won last generation console wars, but it didn't because the great titles it had didn't compare to the amount of great titles PS2 had. Like I said in my earlier post, when you play a game, all those numbers Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo throw at you (or dont throw at you in nintendo's case ;) ) mean nothing. The hardcore techys love to see GFLOPS and CPU Cache and memory bandwidth, because they KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Noobs (like most people flaming the nintendo wii) just like to hear those words to pretend they are in the know, so when they are in the sandbox they can tell their friends. Before a console is released that's all they wanna talk about, this much speed and this much horsepower, AFTER a console is released those things mean nothing.

How many of you knew the CPU speed of Xbox360 and all the dirty little technical details before it was coming out... a lot. How many of you talk about them now? VERY FEW.

So please, stop pretending you know what all these technical specs mean, and if you do, your smart enough to see what it means and what it doesn't mean.

ex: Don't laugh at an 800MHz processor when the best selling console last gen(PS2) had a 300MHz processor. They are completely different processors, like when you see an Athlon3000+ running at 2.0GHz but performing as well as an Intel 3.0GHz CPU (and those are both x86 processors). A PowerPC processor (even at 300MHz) can do much more than an Intel Processor (even at 800MHz). So get your facts straight first. And if you say "the PS2 is 6 years old how will it beat out today's newest consoles" well last I checked the PS2 is very close and sometimes outselling the Xbox360, it goes to show you games mean everything. Last gen's hardware is beating out this gen's hardware, and it's because of software. No one talks about GFLOPS and MHz and Cache and vertex shaders when they are playing videogames.

[RnSK]

And I am, I guess, an "Nintendo Fanboy" inasmuch as I like what they are doing with the general concept of "gaming" by not limiting it to basically cloning and modifying the Quake FPS concept repeatedly.

I mean...I really, honestly, as an Xbox, Xbox 360, GC, PSP, PS2, DS, DS Lite owner just DO NOT GET it.

I've had a 360 since launch day. It got old after Christmas. Every now and then I pop in a game, and yeah, after about 15 minutes the frustration kicks in.

Its not the graphics...they are really, really beautiful. But you know what's killed "Next Gen" gaming for me, honestly?

The *ridiculous controller schemes*...I mean you know, do we *need* every button on the controller? To play Ping Pong? I mean its PONG for the love of god...this requires 11 freakin' buttons?!?!

I mean the whole philosophy behind a lot of this stuff is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

You can throw numbers around *all day* (Sony is famous for "overpromising and underdelivering") but that just doesn't translate into playing the game.

One of my favorite quotes was about how the little HUD displays in GR:AW used as many polys as the previous gen games did for the whole screen.

Thats nice, but the *game* still just sucks. Perhaps if some of that effort was put into the AI, the framerates and the control scheme and playability/story...but...

All of the stuff that was learned about gaming and playability thru the 80s and 90s seems to have been tossed in favor of "ooo...shiiiiiny"...

Its as if one set of frustrations (too short games, 'restart level on death', no replay value) has been exchanged for another (derivative me-too titles, crappy framerates due to graphics overloading, high production costs for licensing while not actually innovating, generally un-fun games).

So, in an industry where the core group of customers that got it started and sustained it (I guess you kids would call them 'old') have little but distain for it, when the 'new breed' of customers buy little and rent a lot, and have little upsell potential and have way many more distractions from core gaming (Internet, anyone?) and that is basically wallowing in its own repetitive stagnation...does it really MATTER who has the 'specs of the day'?

I mean, unless someone's sex life, food or housing is vested into the clock speed of the Wii's PowerPC derivative, or the XBox 360's PowerPC derivative, or the Cell's..."Specs-o-Rama" (Its ALIVE! ALIIIIVE!)...who actually gains or loses here in the end?

If Nintendo (God Bless 'em) can pull out a system that is enjoyable to more than a bunch of 13-22 year old's with malformed egos, and essentially turn gaming back into something you do with people...at your house...for fun...more than once a week...then I say they can do it with a Moto 68k, HAM graphics....and a damned Casiotone VL1 and the sound generator for all i care. Seems to be working just fine for the "underpowered" DS...

I guess "playability" and "value" doesn't need a 'supercomputer' *rolleyes*

Since of course, we're talking about specs orders of magnatude above the above, I'm really not sure why you people are crying in your ice cream here.

Will the Wii be as "numerically impressive" as the 360 or PS3? Of course not. Exactly 1. who said this, and 2. what does this have to do with actually writing compelling and fun games, anyway?

Will it actually matter this time next year? I'm willing to bet it won't :)

-K

[rider604]

People are just afraid of what they don't know.
So they start bashing the Wii. Like all the people that have doomed this console before it's even been released, once it comes out, and once it does well, you will never hear from them again. They are just angry they spent all their money on "next gen" hardware and have nothing to prove for it but rehashed sequels that only look decent when played in High Definition.

It's easy to poke fun of the Wii too, hardware not as powerful, funny name, so they just get together and think "well there is no way it can do good, it doesn't have 3.0GHz+CPU!!"

Soon everyone will find out that it's not all about the MHz and Polygons.
If it were about the MHz and Polygons, (like feisty girl said) then the Xbox should have won last generation console wars, but it didn't because the great titles it had didn't compare to the amount of great titles PS2 had. Like I said in my earlier post, when you play a game, all those numbers Sony and Microsoft and Nintendo throw at you (or dont throw at you in nintendo's case ;) ) mean nothing. The hardcore techys love to see GFLOPS and CPU Cache and memory bandwidth, because they KNOW WHAT IT MEANS. Noobs (like most people flaming the nintendo wii) just like to hear those words to pretend they are in the know, so when they are in the sandbox they can tell their friends. Before a console is released that's all they wanna talk about, this much speed and this much horsepower, AFTER a console is released those things mean nothing.

How many of you knew the CPU speed of Xbox360 and all the dirty little technical details before it was coming out... a lot. How many of you talk about them now? VERY FEW.

So please, stop pretending you know what all these technical specs mean, and if you do, your smart enough to see what it means and what it doesn't mean.

ex: Don't laugh at an 800MHz processor when the best selling console last gen(PS2) had a 300MHz processor. They are completely different processors, like when you see an Athlon3000+ running at 2.0GHz but performing as well as an Intel 3.0GHz CPU (and those are both x86 processors). A PowerPC processor (even at 300MHz) can do much more than an Intel Processor (even at 800MHz). So get your facts straight first. And if you say "the PS2 is 6 years old how will it beat out today's newest consoles" well last I checked the PS2 is very close and sometimes outselling the Xbox360, it goes to show you games mean everything. Last gen's hardware is beating out this gen's hardware, and it's because of software. No one talks about GFLOPS and MHz and Cache and vertex shaders when they are playing videogames.

You're wrong.
Xbox didn't win because Japan didn't accept it. Most of the best game developers happen to be based in Japan and since they didn't welcome the Xbox for whatever reason, it did not do well against the PS2.

Also, the graphics performance difference between the PS2 and Xbox was not huge enough of a gap.

Hardware specs difference aside for all the next gen systems.

If you include Wii in the lot then you are definitely a Nintendo fanboy. Look at the game previews so far for the Wii. Are you telling me they are comparable to either Xbox360 or PS3?

[daps83777]

well the stuff i do know for fact about the Wii, is that the ibm chip isn't x86 based, and that ibm has stated that the processor that is going into the Wii is in fact a supercomputer chip, so i am guessing its fairly powerfull.

oh and in unrelated news the ds has sold 10 million ds systems in Japan, making it the fastest selling system in the history of game console sales in Japan. maybe the Wii will sell decent there to......

[dreary79]

Folks, there's nothing to argue here.
The specs posted may or may not be true but I'm pretty sure the actual specs are close.

I mean come on, look at the games previewed for the Wii so far. THEY ARE NOT NEXT GEN. Yes they are better than Xbox but not by much and certainly not on the same level as the Xbox360/PS3.

Time to close this thread.
This has been a fun argument. Everything but the bad language. I think the spec are pretty close. These same specs have been talked about since 2005. IGN posted a story, I think it was December or 05 that said almost the same thing as this.

I still think this story is a joke and the SDK hasn't been proven to be new or accurate. I guess I need to become a developer so that I can join warioworld. =)

I think that this story is just old information brought up from the dead. From what I've been reading on the net.. over a year ago Nintendo gave specs similar to these to developers so that they new what they could do with the Wii. But since then ATI has said that we haven't seen the surface of what the Wii's GPU can do. There has also been a ton of other rumors about hardware changes Nintendo has made in the last year. So it makes me think that we don't know everything about the Wii hardware. I'm waiting for an official Nintendo statement before I believe anything.

I'm going to buy a Wii no matter what. It looks like a ton of fun. For those of you who can't see that is going to be fun to play then I feel sorry for you. You'll be missing out on a lot of great games.

For all of us Wii fans.. lets hope for early October!!! =)

[RnSK]

You're wrong.
Xbox didn't win because Japan didn't accept it. Most of the best game developers happen to be based in Japan and since they didn't welcome the Xbox for whatever reason, it did not do well against the PS2.

Also, the graphics performance difference between the PS2 and Xbox was not huge enough of a gap.

Hardware specs difference aside for all the next gen systems.

If you include Wii in the lot then you are definitely a Nintendo fanboy. Look at the game previews so far for the Wii. Are you telling me they are comparable to either Xbox360 or PS3?

Are you telling me that the defining definition of console generations is based exclusively on graphics?

The Wii is as much of a "next gen" system as the 360 and PS3 are, as far as these things are generally understood to be defined.

As for if I believe the Wii is comparable to the 360 or PS3, I'll have to say that as far as what it brings to the table with with a generational leap in *gameplay, design and philosophy* then by all means YES.

Because if you look at the whole thing historically, these things are all really the defining aspects that separate console hardware generations. Graphics capability sort of 'comes along for the ride'.

In fact, it can be said in this regard, that of the 3 systems so far in Gen 7, the Xbox360 is the one most lacking in these things...so far. But as we saw at E3, Microsoft seems to have some plans to do something about that.

-K

[rider604]

Are you telling me that the defining definition of console generations is based exclusively on graphics?

The Wii is as much of a "next gen" system as the 360 and PS3 are, as far as these things are generally understood to be defined.

As for if I believe the Wii is comparable to the 360 or PS3, I'll have to say that as far as what it brings to the table with with a generational leap in *gameplay, design and philosophy* then by all means YES.

Because if you look at the whole thing historically, these things are all really the defining aspects that separate console hardware generations. Graphics capability sort of 'comes along for the ride'.

In fact, it can be said in this regard, that of the 3 systems so far in Gen 7, the Xbox360 is the one most lacking in these things...so far. But as we saw at E3, Microsoft seems to have some plans to do something about that.

-K

In that case, no need for latest hardwares. Let's go back to sprites.
We can still innovate even with sprites.

You're just soured that the Wii hardware is less than stellar. The controller is a joke. People are going to start sueing Nintendo for wrist strain.

Anyways, it's all good. The gaming industry definitley needs a kiddie niche and who better to fill it than Nintendo.

[daps83777]

wrist strain? so i guess they still let you sue mcdonalds for making you fat because you chose to eat there. nintendo isn't a kiddie system. the Wii will have family friendly games, which the other systems usually ignore. it also has games like Red Steel and Hereos, the Hereos trailer was leaked then removed, you can still find it some places. the Wii has more mature looking games coming to it. I guess RE4 wasn't mature on gamecube either. oh well, ignorance is bliss i guess.

[RnSK]

In that case, no need for latest hardwares. Let's go back to sprites.
We can still innovate even with sprites.


Sure...why in hell not?


You're just soured that the Wii hardware is less than stellar.

Perhaps the Bookmobile missed a stop in your neighborhood. Reading is Fundamental. If you'd read what I typed, you be able to glean that I am in fact, not remotely phased at *all* about the Wii's hardware. My question was...why is anyone?


The controller is a joke. People are going to start sueing Nintendo for wrist strain.


Do you have any idea of how inane that was? Any at all?


Anyways, it's all good. The gaming industry definitley needs a kiddie niche and who better to fill it than Nintendo.

Funny thing is, most of the folks I talk to that are interested in Nintendo's new hardware aren't kids at all. They were playing games likely before you were little more than your father's imagination.

Leave it to a kid tho, to point out Nintendo's "kiddie" niche.

-K

[InsaneNutter]

His source is not creditable at all... ITS FROM AN ANONYMOUS WII DEVELOPER!!!!!!

Zeus posts everything he can against the the Wii and DS... He says he's not a Nintendo hater, but he is. Right now I'm treating this thread as a lie that Zeus bought into because he hates Nintendo. If someone was to say, "I'm a PS3 developer and Sony has decided to not put into a Blue-ray drive into the PS3 because of EU Opening an Unofficial HD DVD and Blu-ray Probe to invest on antitrust laws being broken" Zeus would just look at that and say it was a lie because he isn't a Sony hater.

http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=8811

Does this make him anti sony now aswell?

I’m quite sure he is neutral and not against any console...

[daps83777]

most people say the same thing about the ds, about it being for kids only. funny thing is, i only know one kid personally that has a ds, and thats my brother lol. adults are the ones buying it. The Wii is getting some good predictions because they are running polls on people that use to be gamers, but aren't anymore. alot of these people think the Wii sounds innovative and are showing in decent numbers that the Wii is attracting those that use to be gamers back into the Nintendo fold. these are numbers that you really can't predict, but these are the people that haven't supported anyone the last few gens, and won't support the 360 or PS3.


i don't see how anything like that is relevent about that controller, considering that the powerglove for the original nes was controlled by tilt. and the cotroller itself was made by nintendo. i think that was around 1989. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Glove

it was also used in the movie the wizard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wizard_(film)

showing a story like that doesn't really support any console company.

[RnSK]

I think his point is that Zeus posts what he likes and isn't nearly as biased as some think.

Its all about what are essentially toys, people. Its just not that deep.

-K

[daps83777]

i know someone who asked him to post on the powerglove and he didn't post it. didn't think it was relevant i guess. its more like when there are negative things about sony or positve things about nintendo that thinks seem weird sometimes.

[CagadaMan]

Yeah, I must say that this whole Wii spec debate is pretty funny. Regardless of what the specs are, I'm still buying the damn thing. Those of you who really want it, just buy it and forget about what some dude named 'TheGuy' said. Don't believe anything thats said until it's officially confirmed by Nintendo themselves.

After reviewing the specs myself, I have come to the conclusion that they are indeed fake. I may or may not be correct, but I believe that whoever wrote this did indeed take some time to make things up. He did mess up on one thing though. The memory. It's already been officially confirmed that MoSys would be providing the super fast 1T-SRAM for the Wii, not the GDDR3 memory that is detailed in this spec sheet. Most of what the spec sheet says is correct (based on current information that is from a more relaiable source than 'TheGuy') except for the memory and a few minor details of the GPU and CPU.

"Our most up-to-date specs promise 16MB of eDRAM (integrated in NEC's LSI chips) and 88MB of 1T-SRAM (the "additional external memory chip"), for a total of 104MB of system RAM, not counting the allegedly accessible 512MB of Flash RAM or the ATI Hollywood GPU's on-board memory, which is said to amount to 3MB."

http://wii.ign.com/articles/713/713262p1.html

[daps83777]

nice first post, actually posting facts, and being respectfull and everything. kudos.

[CagadaMan]

nice first post, actually posting facts, and being respectfull and everything. kudos.

Thanks. :)

[bwanac]

I am going to call fake no this too.

Granted I dont think the Wii will be much more powerful than what is provided here, I do not feel that the GPU will merely be the same x1.5. Improvements will be made to both the CPU and GPU, not a simple speed increase. I may be wrong... but I would like to think Hollywood has more to show than a speed increase.

[daps83777]

agreed, that was one of my biggest problems, the gpu only being a higher clocked gpu from the gamecube. based on everything ATI has said i think that we can expect more than that.

[Souzar]

All this info is from a version of the SDK, maybe the latest but not necessarily the final SDK and anyway from what I remember, the GC development units ran slower than the actual retail units, the main CPU was something like ~350 mhz compared to 485mhz.

Even IF the specs are as what has been posted then I don't see the problem. I think Idiots who go on about "next-gen" but don't know what the **** it is are the people who get hard-ons from spec sheets. What is next-gen? higher-res? detailed textures? real-time weapon change? those are only a fraction of what makes a game worth playing, to me story and gameplay far out weigh any amount of pixel/vertex shader effects.

If you want proof that all this bullshit hype (mostly from sony) about how 'next-gen' is the only way to go, see the video from sony showing the NBA demo where they show the athlete walking and moving - what was on the PS2 and what the PS3 is capable of and you realize that it could've been done on the PS2. Kind of like MS with their long file names when Win95 was released.

It's interesting to note that the Wii games shown at E3 were running on modified GC units, that included the new Mario title, which had many effects such as specular lighting and normal mapping - pretty impressive for modified GC hardware.

Certain people need to quit being such spec whores, becuase they know their fixed spec (dx9 based gpu) PS3s will be outdated by the years end - DX10 anyone? Point is, start focusing on the games becuase the hardware won't matter.

[Azariel Z]

Was very funny t see in this post, Sony and M$ fan boys flaming out, talking about Mhz, flops, calling others "noobs" . people that actually run XP on their computer, and never touched a pre win 95 machine. Speaking loud they know so much, when they got their hands on their first video game only on the last generation, thinking that numbers written on a box makes a difference. I think those people don't even know the difference between DirectX and Open GL, more than why Microsoft is popular but actually no good at all, comparing to Mac OS. I go by the result, about benchmark, people can continue debating ebcause at the end, is the game that counts, no matter the platform, no matter the number of Polygons. Today 3D is something very common and people don't even bother to count them ( are you counting? ) , you will always get the feeling is 3D. Although I still love games that have 0% 3D on it, like Age of Empires 2, of secret of mana, Super Mario Word, Tales of Pnatasia, Sonic, talk about old and good Megaman X school.:D :D

[RUSKULL]

Any more details on the Wi-Fi? What types of encryption does it provide?

-Russ

[LaMa]

:mad: i hate to see people talking like analists, we can say a s**t about wii nor ps3, there are too many differences between CPU chips, ram, video, etc. just look for Intel D clock speed and a p4 CLOCK SPEED, you cant compare and xbox, wii or ps3 just by the speed, its stupid, the only way to compare in that way is using the same cpu class, with the same logic, if you have a pentium 3 at 1gz, vs a p4 at 1.0ghz, guess wich one will win. same for ram, video etc.

how hard is to get this, also if you want to trash on any console wait till you actually play it. i can say wii is good or not, same for ps3, i just know ill wait till i play one and decide myself after seen some titles.

so stop talking like you know byt the specs if it has good graphics or not, how good it will be!. wait till you play it.
just a little advice.:D

Right on buddy. Very well said. I couldnt agree more.


People, stop the prejudice. Thinking you know it all... passing judgement on consoles that havent even been released yet... coming to conclusions based on specs on paper/speculation... you're all just making fools out of yourselves.

[smmiller506]

That CPU is even slower than the first xbox!!!
However, because of the simpler architechure, the Wii will be almost as powerful as the Xbox 360. It will perform almost as well, but I think it will be better overall because games will be easier to write for programmers.

[smmiller506]

I have heard that Nintendo slated an October 2nd release date. I am not sure how reliable that info is, though.

[Han_Solo]

My predictions on wether this is fake or not. To make it quick, most of the CPU and some GPU predictions from the "developer" is quite legit, and seems reasonable. Other things like RAM bandwidths seem to be quite stupid.

According to the news, i have done math spec analysis to see how it stacks.

Broadway is Wii's CPU.

PowerPC 750cxe FX/GX @ 729 MHz
Front Side Bus: 243 MHz, 64 bits @ 1.944 GB’s/sec
256 KB L1 instruction cache
256 KB L1 data cache (can set up 16-kilobyte data scratch pad).
This leads to 512 KB L1 Cache total

Normal Broadway interface:
Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 64 bit * 243 MHz = 1.944 GB/s
Bus Interface Unit from chip = 17 GB/s
L2 Data cache to fill buffer 64 bit * 729 MHz = 5.832 GB/s
L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache = 32 bit * 729 MHz = 2.916 GB/s
DMA controller to fill buffer 64 bit * 729 MHz = 5.832 GB/s
Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 256 bit * 729 MHz = 23.328 GB/s
Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 64 bit * 729 MHz = 5.832 GB/s

Broadways data compression
Data compression of 4:1 average data compression:
Bus Interface Unit to System Bus 4:1 = 7.78 GB/s
Bus Interface Unit from chip 4:1 = 68 GB/s
L2 Data cache to fill buffer 4:1 = 23.328 GB/s
L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache 4:1 = 11.664 GB/s
DMA controller to fill buffer 4:1 = 23.328GB/s
Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 4:1 = 93.312 GB/s.
Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 4:1 = 23.328 GB/s


Superscalar microprocessor with six execution units (floating-point unit, branching unit, system register unit, load/store unit, two integer units).

This clearly shows the same setup as Gekko.

DMA unit (15-entry DMA request queue) used by 16-kilobyte data scratch pad.

Gekko had the same 15 entry DMA queue request, but at 4 KB intervals with an added 4:1 compression which resulted in 240 KB’s total. With Broadway however, this results to 960 KB’s. Quite a leap I must say.

Write-gather buffer for writing graphics command lists to the graphics chip.

Same as Gekko in that it can do custom graphics ready to be transported to Hollywood, through main memory and bandwidths.

Onboard 256-kilobyte 2-way set-associative L2 integrated cache.

Interestingly enough is that theirs 512 KB’s of L2 cache. Gekko had 256 KB’s 2 way L2.

Two, 32-bit integer units (IU)

Same setup as Gekko, but in this case it is faster than the general one 64-bit integer unit in the standard PowerPC.

One floating point unit (FPU) (supports single precision (32-bit) and double precision (64-bit))

Same in Gekko

The FPU supports paired single floating point (FP/PS)
An added feature that definitely helps.

The FPU supports paired single multiply add (ps_madd). Most FP/PS instructions can be issued in each cycle and completed in three cycles.

Wow, 3 cycles is quite different to the 6 cycles in Gekko. Lower is better.

Fixed-point to floating-point conversion can be performed at the same time as FPU register load and store, with no loss in performance.

Very nice, Gekko had a 2 cycle loss problem, but with clever programming the cycles used reduced. This feature will undoubtedly allow developers to do more.

The branch unit supports static branch prediction and dynamic branch prediction.

Shows some sense of VMX G5 extensions here. Similar cases in the Xbox 360.

When an instruction is stalled on data, the next instruction can be issued and executed. All instructions maintain program logic and will complete in the correct program order.

A standard in all PowerPC’s.

Supports three L2 cache fetch modes: 32-Byte, 64-Byte, and 128-Byte.

With 4:1 compression this is exactly the same as Gekko. 512 KB’s total. But since theirs 3 whole data streams, it can be allocated in 3 different ways, sending 3 different sets to 3 different routes. This is 3 times the performance than the original L2 Write Gather Pipe.

Reference Information: Broadway is upward compatible with Nintendo GameCube’s CPU (Gekko).

Of course.

Hollywood GPU

Hollywood is a system LSI composed of a GPU and internal main memory (MEM1). Hollywood is clocked at 243 MHz. Its internal memory consists of 3 megabytes of embedded graphics memory and 24 megabytes of high speed main memory.

Yes but remember that there is an extra 64 MB’s of 1T-SRAM to play with. 3 MB’s of onboard eDRAM is basically for the Z-buffer, Texture cache, and frame buffer. There is actually a 16 MB’s of eDRAM VRAM memory.

Hollywood includes the following.
• Graphics processing unit (with 3 megabytes of eDRAM)

16 MB’s total

• Audio DSP
• I/O Bridge
• 24 megabytes of internal main memory

Interestingly NOT fixed at 24 MB’s, because there is an extra 64 MB’s to play with. Theoretically it can range from 88 MB’s to 24 MB’s of Main memory. Can be shared with the GPU.

• Internal main memory operates at 486 MHz.

Ok so this should be the bandwidth specs.

Speculative Wii GPU bandwidth specs
~80 to 192 GB/s eDRAM internal logic to eDRAM internal memory bandwidth (also assuming 6:1 texture compression)
23.328 GB/s GPU to eDRAM bandwidth (486 MHz × 6 (5 ns 1T-SRAM intervals) accesses per clock cycle on a 64 bit bus)

When comparing to the Xbox 360

360 GPU bandwidth specs
256 GB/s eDRAM internal logic to eDRAM internal memory bandwidth
32 GB/s GPU to eDRAM bandwidth (2 GHz × per 2 accesses per clock cycle on a 64 bit DDR bus)

As a result, this is a BEAST in a CONSERVATIVE way.

Maximum bandwidth between Hollywood and internal main memory: 3.9 gigabytes per second

Wrong, look above. If it were 3.9 GB’s, this would definitely yield HIGH bottlenecks.

External Main Memory (MEM2)

Wii uses 64 megabytes of GDDR3 (MEM2) as external main memory. Like internal main memory, MEM2 can be accessed directly from Broadway and the GPU at high speed and has a peak bandwidth of 4 gigabytes/sec. Programs can also be placed in MEM2.

The extra 64 MB’s is NOT made of GDDR3 memory as this is video memory. 1T-SRAM is a definite, and it can be shared easily due to its ~5 ns latency timing intervals. Again it is NOT a mere 4 GB’s. This clearly shows the inaccuracy of the “specs” as it’s definitely BIGGER, as noted above. I would say it’s either a typo or the whole thing could be fake.

Hollywood is definitely 3-4 times more powerful than Flipper, and Broadway is definitely 4 times more powerful than Gekko.

Not to mention the internal bandwidths that is more than 5 times GC’s.

3 MB's of on-board texture eDRAM memory: Check
16 MB's of eDRAM memory: According to IGN, check; this is 6 MB's MORE than 360
1 MB for Z buffer: check
24-64 MB's of VRAM: Check (128 to 256 MB's of GDDR3 memory, theoretically)
~32 MB's of Main RAM: Check (128 MB's of DDR400 memory, theoretically)
~16 MB of DRAM for DSP.

We can now estimate the type of graphics fixed @ 480p resolution.

So, let’s go with the CPU and GPU estimates.

Wii's "new" PowerPC 750cxe FX/GX @ 729 MHz can be thought of as a Single 64-bit 1.5 GHz G5 core, with VMX extensions. The 360s CPU is far more powerful, but for Nintendo’s sake, this CPU is MORE than enough.

Hollywood will undoubtedly feature MORE Pipelines (maybe dynamic shader pipes hopefully); than the 4 in GCN with 1 Textile Unit each.

If their is 6 or even 8, your looking @ 4-6 GPixels/sec at its very rough form, depending on the Pipes and the frequency.

For comparison sake, 360's theoretical fillrate is ~24 GPixels/sec. considering the 100% AA efficiency, and the type of eDRAM performance, and other factors like resolution, we will see a maximum of 3 to 4 GPixels/sec in game.

Wii on the other hand is going to run at 480p resolution. Wii with 640x480 has to draw only 307, 200 pixels on-screen, therefore per frame @ 60 frames/sec, you will need at least 18.5 Million Pixels/frame.

For 360, you’re looking at a minimum of 1080i; this will lead to 124.5 MillionPixels/frame.

As you can see, Wii can save up ALOT on fillrate, and have an in-game fillrate VERY similar to the 360's. Because of all other aspects running in the background, this estimate is very legit.

If the new Power PC is @ 729 MHz, then its 4x the power of Gekko. If the new Hollywood is @ 243 MHz with the above pipes (and of course the more hardwire effects like HDR etc); then your looking at a 4x GPU compared to Flipper. This is also provided that there is ~32-40 MB's of VRAM (shared from Main RAM); which is based off 1T-SRAM.

My rule of this type of RAM is that, for every 32 MB's of 1T-SRAM; there’s 256 MB's of DDR400 memory (theoretically).

In the end @480p resolution; this console is a beast in a conservative and efficient way.

[SONIC]

Say, didn't the Xbox have a Intel Celeron CPU?
Power PC vs. Celeron? You do the math.

[Han_Solo]

Say, didn't the Xbox have a Intel Celeron CPU?
Power PC vs. Celeron? You do the math.

Well my above opinion is based on thought out estimates, and what the "fake" or "non fake" Wii spec sheet gives us.

For GC's Gekko vs XBox's CPU

Gekko
Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 64 bit * 162 MHz = 1.296 GB/s
Bus Interface Unit from chip = 11.3 GB/s
L2 Data cache to fill buffer 64 bit * 485 MHz = 3.88 GB/s
L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache = 32 bit * 485 MHz = 1.94 GB/s
DMA controller to fill buffer 64 bit * 485 MHz = 3.88 GB/s
Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 256 bit * 485 MHz = 15.52 GB/s
Write Gather Pipe from Load/Store Unit 64 bit * 485 MHz = 3.88 GB/s

Xbox 1 CPU
Bus Interface Unit to System Bus = 64 bit * 133 MHz = 1.064 GB/s
Bus Interface Unit from chip = 8 GB/s
L2 Data cache to fill buffer 32 bit * 733 MHz = 2.932 GB/s
L2 Instruction cache to L1 instruction cache = 32 bit * 733 MHz = 2.932 GB/s
DMA controller to fill buffer 32 bit * 733 MHz = 2.932 GB/s
Fill buffer to L1 Data cache 128 bit * 733 MHz = 11.728 GB/s

Things like L1 and L2 cache cleary show Gekko the winner, and with 4:1 compression in Gekkos favour, it clearly shows Gekko to be the leading champ over the Xbox 1 CPU.

[darkfader]

It wasn't me that leaked it but I can confirm this info was indeed leaked for real.
Info is dated from march 22.
Just my 2 cents...

[Han_Solo]

It wasn't me that leaked it but I can confirm this info was indeed leaked for real.
Info is dated from march 22.
Just my 2 cents...

Well then use common sense; its NOT final Hardware specs.

Why not rename it and call it Alpha SDK specs or something. These seem very early in the spec stage.

[Raist3d]

I can't understand why some people still insist in making the machine more than it is. It is what it is, and it's fine. Here's a great example of what I mean:



Ok so this should be the bandwidth specs.

Speculative Wii GPU bandwidth specs
~80 to 192 GB/s eDRAM internal logic to eDRAM internal memory bandwidth (also assuming 6:1 texture compression)
23.328 GB/s GPU to eDRAM bandwidth (486 MHz × 6 (5 ns 1T-SRAM intervals) accesses per clock cycle on a 64 bit bus)

When comparing to the Xbox 360

360 GPU bandwidth specs
256 GB/s eDRAM internal logic to eDRAM internal memory bandwidth
32 GB/s GPU to eDRAM bandwidth (2 GHz × per 2 accesses per clock cycle on a 64 bit DDR bus)

As a result, this is a BEAST in a CONSERVATIVE way.


I find amusing that you have to assume a 6:1 texture compression to "up" the bandwidth of the Wii, but you completely disregard the fact the 360 has *exactly* the same compression scheme. Using that the 360 has like what.. over 1 gigabyte of bandwidth? Why do you apply the compression optimization to one and not the other?


Hollywood is definitely 3-4 times more powerful than Flipper, and Broadway is definitely 4 times more powerful than Gekko.


Definitively? Hah! I would like to know where you get this "definitively" from. What the developer said looks pretty reasonable to me. I don't know where you get the 4 times either. Everything all over has pointed for a while to 2 to 3 times and this pretty much confirms all that.


Hollywood will undoubtedly feature MORE Pipelines (maybe dynamic shader pipes hopefully); than the 4 in GCN with 1 Textile Unit each.


It doesn't. That's what "TheGuy" said. And all the developer rumors have so far confirmed that it doesn't.



For 360, you’re looking at a minimum of 1080i; this will lead to 124.5 MillionPixels/frame.


This is not true at all. 360 games are running at 720P. And you go on making claims of optimization it seems you quite don't know about on the Wii yet not say anything of the optimizations of the 360.

Why people just can't accept the Wii is not on the same hardware level of the 360/PS3. It's fine.


In the end @480p resolution; this console is a beast in a conservative and efficient way.



You make it sound like the 360 couldn't output 480p if it had to.....

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Well then use common sense; its NOT final Hardware specs.

Why not rename it and call it Alpha SDK specs or something. These seem very early in the spec stage.

And what makes you think this couldn't be the final spec? Considering the machine is launching in a couple of months it could very well be. For all you know the Alpha SDKS as you name them could be running slower and this document is the final intended target anyway going to manufacturing. The spec sounds about right.

- Raist

[Han_Solo]

I can't understand why some people still insist in making the machine more than it is. It is what it is, and it's fine. Here's a great example of what I mean:

Did i say ANYTHING about the Wii being MORE powerful than the 360 OR PS3?

I find amusing that you have to assume a 6:1 texture compression to "up" the bandwidth of the Wii, but you completely disregard the fact the 360 has *exactly* the same compression scheme. Using that the 360 has like what.. over 1 gigabyte of bandwidth? Why do you apply the compression optimization to one and not the other?

Assume? Of course its common sense for it to have 6:1 texture compression, AND 6:1 texture CAHCE compression, which i didnt add in. This is based on Flipper in the GC right? So OBVIOUSLY the feature will be implemented.

I am NOT saying Wii's GPU is more powerful than 360, i am implying with PROPER math facts that this a beast in a CONSERVATIVE way.

On the record, 360 only has 100% FSAA and AF for no performance loss. It basically runs 4X FSAA on the fly. This in turn does not make it have the 6:1 compression of textures, as it really doesnt need it. For the case of Wii running at 480p resolution ONLY, this has to be taken into account. Also, Wii can output 1080i games, at around GC level graphics at GC's best. This doesnt mean its more powerful than the 360. Hell, 360 could run 1080p games and still outperform the PS3!

Also, common sense, my math is correct.

Definitively? Hah! I would like to know where you get this "definitively" from. What the developer said looks pretty reasonable to me. I don't know where you get the 4 times either. Everything all over has pointed for a while to 2 to 3 times and this pretty much confirms all that.

Opinion. The developers numbers also dont add up. Whats the GDDR3 type of RAM used for, espicially for MEM2 memory modules ???? Common sense, for it to minimize bandwidth, is the use of 1T-SRAM-Q. Right? Didnt Nintendo themselves say 1T-SRAM THROUGHOUT the system?

It doesn't. That's what "TheGuy" said. And all the developer rumors have so far confirmed that it doesn't.

Show me it doesn't support MORE pipelines at least? Common SENSE would make you think at LEAST 8 pipelines, and in parallel, which is quite different to dynamic shaders. If your saying it doesnt, then how come MP3 is running a more advanced Bloom Lighting model (close to HDR), with no performance loss WITH other incredible local lights and textures running? Explain that champ!

This is not true at all. 360 games are running at 720P. And you go on making claims of optimization it seems you quite don't know about on the Wii yet not say anything of the optimizations of the 360.

O RLY? So why does ALL standard 360 games have a maximum 1080i on the back of the box? Is it just for marketing? If its NOT, then does it upscale it to 1080i? If so, then why isnt the picture stretched, and why dont we see interlanced lines across the screen?

Why people just can't accept the Wii is not on the same hardware level of the 360/PS3. It's fine.

Again, did i ever say "Wii is more powerful than 360". NO i basically said, "For a resolution @ 480p, the hardware spec is MORE than enough for this little beast"; and thats not word for word, its basically the meaning of my whole post.

You make it sound like the 360 couldn't output 480p if it had to.....

No sorry, 360 cant even do 240p or even 320x180

-Han Solo

[Han_Solo]

And what makes you think this couldn't be the final spec? Considering the machine is launching in a couple of months it could very well be. For all you know the Alpha SDKS as you name them could be running slower and this document is the final intended target anyway going to manufacturing. The spec sounds about right.

- Raist

Read what the others had to say, about the data of this release. March 22nd.

I assume this is an Alpha Dev kit, due to its "specs". If you know more than me, then why isnt your brilliant mind thinking?

[dreary79]

I was a little lost on the resolution of the 360 and Wii so I looked some things up. Sorry for my ignorance in this, but I'm not an expert or anything.


The Wii will run at 480i and some games will be compatible with 480p. My only thought is.. Will games that don't support 480p be shown in 480p if I tell my Wii's dashboard to display at 480p?

Most games for the 360 are made in 720p and 1080i resolutions. Games like PGR3 are made in 720p but can be up-scaled to 1080i. It can also be played on my old television. Other games like Call of Duty 2 support both 720p and 1080i. Are these games downscaled to 720p?

I run my PC at 1024x768. If I raise the resolution very much then my games start to slow down. That means I need a much better computer and graphics card to run at higher resolutions. daps said earlier that you get a 20% dock in power for running at 1080i. Is this true? I know its at least that much if not more of a dock on my PC. Since the Wii only runs at 480p and the 360 at 1080i, doesn't that catch the Wii up just a little bit?

[Havok154]

I was a little lost on the resolution of the 360 and Wii so I looked some things up. Sorry for my ignorance in this, but I'm not an expert or anything.


The Wii will run at 480i and some games will be compatible with 480p. My only thought is.. Will games that don't support 480p be shown in 480p if I tell my Wii's dashboard to display at 480p?

Most games for the 360 are made in 720p and 1080i resolutions. Games like PGR3 are made in 720p but can be up-scaled to 1080i. It can also be played on my old television. Other games like Call of Duty 2 support both 720p and 1080i. Are these games downscaled to 720p?

I run my PC at 1024x768. If I raise the resolution very much then my games start to slow down. That means I need a much better computer and graphics card to run at higher resolutions. daps said earlier that you get a 20% dock in power for running at 1080i. Is this true? I know its at least that much if not more of a dock on my PC. Since the Wii only runs at 480p and the 360 at 1080i, doesn't that catch the Wii up just a little bit?

Yea, the reason Nintendo isn't using a 3ghz processor is because at 480p, they don't need all the extra power. It still won't have the same capabilities as a 360, but the ability to have some damn good looking games will definatly be there.

As about the Wii's res, the hardware will support 480p so it should be able to upscale 480i assuming the game for some reason isn't native 480p. The good thing also is that games like Zelda will run in 480p and have widescreen option, something the Gamecube version won't have. (It's running in 480i and non-widescreen, might support 480p though. don't remember off hand.)

[daps83777]

i still think because the file is supposedly from march 22 that it is likely that Wii has changed specs, considering since E3 alone they have brought in at least 2 new companies that are providing hardware. definately agree about the resolution and power thing. the Wii doesn't need the same power as a 360 or PS3 because it doesn't output to the higher resolutions. the Wii could be significantly slower but look as good as 360 or PS3 games at 480p. just my 2 cents.

[Raist3d]

Read what the others had to say, about the data of this release. March 22nd.

I assume this is an Alpha Dev kit, due to its "specs". If you know more than me, then why isnt your brilliant mind thinking?

My "brilliant mind" as you put it (your words) is thinking. My point is that you can't conclude this are Alpha Dev Kit specs- it coudl be either. It could be final final or not, and given the context the things were said, all these specs sound about final right.

I noticed you didn't comment anything on my pointing out your bandwidth stats... care to admit a mistake? There's nothing wrong with that.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Yea, the reason Nintendo isn't using a 3ghz processor is because at 480p, they don't need all the extra power.


The cpu not being 3Ghz doesn't have to do with Wii running at 480p per se. Higher resolution can have or not the same polygon count of a 480p game, you just get higher resolution graphics. The one that is affected by this stat more than anything is the gpu, but for the cpu if you want physics and better AI you still need a higher Mhz count.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

i still think because the file is supposedly from march 22 that it is likely that Wii has changed specs, considering since E3 alone they have brought in at least 2 new companies that are providing hardware. definately agree about the resolution and power thing. the Wii doesn't need the same power as a 360 or PS3 because it doesn't output to the higher resolutions. the Wii could be significantly slower but look as good as 360 or PS3 games at 480p. just my 2 cents.

It won't look as good because you won't have the extra FX. Moreover the resolution difference doesn't quite make up for the capability difference, and if a particular game was killing the gpu of a ps3/360, they could always render at 480p anyway.

The 360/PS3 processors are really much more advanced. Think about it like if you had a PC and you had a video card from several years ago vs the current PC state of the art- yes, the difference it's that big.

But that said, it doesn't mean you can't do compelling experiences on the Wii. Having to render only at 480p helps the Wii. If you can do Resident Evil on the gamecube the way it ended up loooking having 50% more GPU power (and more on the cpu power vs the cube) you can definitively come up with something as a game deigner that still looks quite cool.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

I was a little lost on the resolution of the 360 and Wii so I looked some things up. Sorry for my ignorance in this, but I'm not an expert or anything.


The Wii will run at 480i and some games will be compatible with 480p. My only thought is.. Will games that don't support 480p be shown in 480p if I tell my Wii's dashboard to display at 480p?


That's up to how Nintendo does it. My guess is that there's a way to do it but the caveat is that you do lose framerate if you want to join the two interlaced fields into a single non interlaced one. If you run at 480i you keep the framerate but half the Y axis resolution. But that's the way the game was designed if it's 480i originally. I think for some games (action) this would be an issue as you rather have the framerate up.


Most games for the 360 are made in 720p and 1080i resolutions. Games like PGR3 are made in 720p but can be up-scaled to 1080i. It can also be played on my old television. Other games like Call of Duty 2 support both 720p and 1080i. Are these games downscaled to 720p?


These games are probably designed to 720p - or they can just change resolutions on the fly like PC games do.


I run my PC at 1024x768. If I raise the resolution very much then my games start to slow down. That means I need a much better computer and graphics card to run at higher resolutions. daps said earlier that you get a 20% dock in power for running at 1080i. Is this true? I know its at least that much if not more of a dock on my PC. Since the Wii only runs at 480p and the 360 at 1080i, doesn't that catch the Wii up just a little bit?

The Wii does have "more room" vs a machine running at higher resolution like the 360/PS3 (though again, those machines could render at 480p if they wanted to). But keep in mind the gpu on these new machines are generations appart from the Wii's having far better texture caching/pixel rendering optimization, far more pipelines and bandwidth. Not to mention the FX's.

It was said somewhere else Nintendo if they really wanted, could make the Wii hit $99 for sale and still break even. There's a reason for this- the Wii is cheap cheap cheap to manufacture- don't expect the latest and greatest graphics / cpu here. But I think it's fine. I just think people need to get over it. Many point out to how many make "Fun of it" but there's also those who blindly defend it as if form here to November there was supposed to be a major chip redesign or something that will hopefully bring pixel shaders or some other miracle- not happening. It is what it is.

- Raist

[daps83777]

well i don't think sony games are going to drop to 480p, sony says the only high def is 1080 or 1080p, and they are supposedly high def ganes in the system. also because you aren't going to such high resolutions you are decreasing the other things you need on the screen, so it does more than just reduce what power you need. you never know according to this article the Wii graphics could be on par with the 360's http://www.mozlapunk.net/homepage/?p=41

[Raist3d]

well i don't think sony games are going to drop to 480p, sony says the only high def is 1080 or 1080p, and they are supposedly high def ganes in the system. also because you aren't going to such high resolutions you are decreasing the other things you need on the screen, so it does more than just reduce what power you need. you never know according to this article the Wii graphics could be on par with the 360's http://www.mozlapunk.net/homepage/?p=41

Heh, most PS3 games are running at 720p. If you were at last years E3 you would know that. There was ony one single 1080p demo.

You are right to some degree about decreasing the number of things on the screen though keep in mind- you are impacting the visual "next gen" quality of the game when you do that. That still doesn't affect a higher cpu requirement for physics and higher order AI.

And the article of mozlapunk just doesn't chime in with everything else, so sounds like BS to me. The recent leaked specs are fairly detailed. If the graphics were going to outdo the 360, the Wii can't simply cost $250 or less.

Finally, there are two more things that point to this article being BS:

- they mention the ps3 will be far superior to the wii yet they mention the wii may outdo 360? The graphics difference between ps3 and 360 is not that vast. The cpu's is another matter. This is all out there and pretty much well known.

- It would be a huge waste of developer resources and Nintendo to say "here are the specs" (show gamecube x 2 specs), have them develop their game and waste money on that for a whole project cycle and have the machine come in with "brilliant" first party titles, and lukewarm 3rd party titles. You know how many people Nintendo would p'off doing this? It would be a bridge-burning scenario which would alienate Nintendo more on its game lirary and make the Wii overall look bad.

Not going to happen. It's in Nintendo best interest to hit launch date with all titles looking good.

- Why have only 64 megs main ram if you are going to have a gpu that could match or exceed the 360? That doesn't make any sense at all. Where are you going to store all the data? If we go back "but they could have 1 gig of ram and they are hiding that spec" then I say "but they are goint lunch at least at $500 USD and they have been hiding the lunch price..."

- Raist

[dreary79]

- they mention the ps3 will be far superior to the wii yet they mention the wii may outdo 360? The graphics difference between ps3 and 360 is not that vast. The cpu's is another matter. This is all out there and pretty much well known.- Raist

How do you know that the PS3 isn't going to blow away the 360? If the Cell processor turns out to be a joke or the PS3 has a bottleneck then it is possible that they could be pretty equal. But from what Sony has said that the supposed "real time" demo's that they've shown the PS3 should be able to kill the 360.

[Raist3d]

How do you know that the PS3 isn't going to blow away the 360? If the Cell processor turns out to be a joke or the PS3 has a bottleneck then it is possible that they could be pretty equal. But from what Sony has said that the supposed "real time" demo's that they've shown the PS3 should be able to kill the 360.

I am talking specifically about the graphics chip. Not overall system perf.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Did i say ANYTHING about the Wii being MORE powerful than the 360 OR PS3?


No, but I didn't say you did, did I? I said "more than it is."


Assume? Of course its common sense for it to have 6:1 texture compression, AND 6:1 texture CAHCE compression, which i didnt add in. This is based on Flipper in the GC right? So OBVIOUSLY the feature will be implemented.


You are totally misreading what I said. I didn't mean "assume" as in "will the Wii have it, perhaps not" kind of way. I meant that, you go with the texture compression to up the actual bandwidth of the Wii, but when you compare vs the 360 bandwidth, you then forget to allow the 360 the same very optimization on texture bandwidth that the Wii will use- when it has exactly the same* compression scheme. This is what makes your comparison or any point you tried to make with that completely invalid.


I am NOT saying Wii's GPU is more powerful than 360, i am implying with PROPER math facts that this a beast in a CONSERVATIVE way.


I never said you were saying the Wii gpu was superior. What I am saying is that you are not giving the 360 the same optimization so the relative bandwidth compared is not anywhere near what you presented.


On the record, 360 only has 100% FSAA and AF for no performance loss. It basically runs 4X FSAA on the fly. This in turn does not make it have the 6:1 compression of textures, as it really doesnt need it.


Eh? Care to elaborate on that? Why you say "it really doesn't need it." That's up to the developer and what they want to do. If you are draing more stuff on the screen with more textures you need more texture bandwidth. If you want to save more previous vram, you can certainly make use of the texture compression. Regardless, this doesn't affect the relatively comparison at all.


For the case of Wii running at 480p resolution ONLY, this has to be taken into account. Also, Wii can output 1080i games, at around GC level graphics at GC's best. This doesnt mean its more powerful than the 360. Hell, 360 could run 1080p games and still outperform the PS3!


Actually the 360 doesn't have a 1080p output.


Also, common sense, my math is correct.


What your math is missing is putting the Wii on true relative terms to the 360. You let the Wii have optimizations in compression but not the 360 and then proceed to compare. That's completely BS.

Moreover, you mention compression left and right without taking into account it's not an always thing. The 4:1 compression on cpu side is for vertexes only, not for general data.


Opinion. The developers numbers also dont add up. Whats the GDDR3 type of RAM used for, espicially for MEM2 memory modules ???? Common sense, for it to minimize bandwidth, is the use of 1T-SRAM-Q. Right? Didnt Nintendo themselves say 1T-SRAM THROUGHOUT the system?


Where and when? The hardware specs page Nintendo has doesn't mention such thing.


Show me it doesn't support MORE pipelines at least? Common SENSE would make you think at LEAST 8 pipelines, and in parallel, which is quite different to dynamic shaders. If your saying it doesnt, then how come MP3 is running a more advanced Bloom Lighting model (close to HDR), with no performance loss WITH other incredible local lights and textures running? Explain that champ!


You are so funny. You do a bunch of bogus claims- whose burden of proof lies on you- and then come back at me. When I mentioned the pipelines I referred to dynamic shaders. The machine doesn't have them. As for MP3 I have no idea who the guy is- and just becuase it's written on the net doesn't mean its true. Assuming it is, all the tricks you can do to fake HDR (if it actually comes close to faking it) can be done on any of the higher order machines (i.e. ps3/360) with far more performance and flexibility.

And you know, I am not saying the Wii's bad. I am just saying it is what it is and it's fine (I think I have said this at least 3 times already). I am not saying Wii is a bad machine. Somehow insecurity sets in when some Wii fans realize the machine is just game-square or game-cubed.


O RLY? So why does ALL standard 360 games have a maximum 1080i on the back of the box? Is it just for marketing? If its NOT, then does it upscale it to 1080i? If so, then why isnt the picture stretched, and why dont we see interlanced lines across the screen?


Not all games go to 1080i. And there are faqs that explain the game internally does 720p and the machine scales to 1080i. I would imagine this varies per game, some doing 720 only, some capable of true 1080i, and some doing the scaling if you want a higher rez. So no, it's not *all* standard 360 games. Microsoft themselves have said that games will run at 720p when talking about Sony's claims of 1080p, so go argue with them.

You got a point that it can do and some games do 1080i, but not all.


Again, did i ever say "Wii is more powerful than 360". NO i basically said, "For a resolution @ 480p, the hardware spec is MORE than enough for this little beast"; and thats not word for word, its basically the meaning of my whole post.


I never said you mentioned "Wii is more powerful than 360". What I said was that you were making the machine seem more than what it is. Your flawed 360 graphics comparison a prime example of that.


No sorry, 360 cant even do 240p or even 320x180


I didn't say 240p or 320x180. But for the record, from xbox.com:

You do not need a TV that supports high definition to use the Xbox 360 system. Like all consoles before it, Xbox 360 works perfectly on standard-definition TVs (the resolution for standard def is 480 interlace).


If you're using the Xbox 360 VGA HD AV Cable to connect your Xbox 360 console to a computer monitor or TV monitor with a VGA connection, you'll have the opportunity to select from a variety of resolutions. They are:

* 640 x 480
* 848 x 480
* 1024 x 768
* 1280 x 720 (equivalent to 720p)
* 1280 x 768
* 1280 x 1024
* 1360 x 768


Have fun.


- Raist

[Han_Solo]

My "brilliant mind" as you put it (your words) is thinking. My point is that you can't conclude this are Alpha Dev Kit specs- it coudl be either. It could be final final or not, and given the context the things were said, all these specs sound about final right.

I noticed you didn't comment anything on my pointing out your bandwidth stats... care to admit a mistake? There's nothing wrong with that.

- Raist

I dont think your brilliant mind is thinking. If the so called "developer" did output the CPU specs, why not Hollywood GPU specs as well? This assures me that ATI is still NOT finished with it. And by the interviews conducted from ATI; they say its a brand new design, based of Flipper. This tells me, that their will be components of Flipper with MORE hardwired units.

Common sense right?

Oh i did comment about the bandwidth spec; its all correct under what i did. I just havent seen you take the time and prove me wrong in the spec. You use words and say "its wrong"...

[Han_Solo]

It won't look as good because you won't have the extra FX. Moreover the resolution difference doesn't quite make up for the capability difference, and if a particular game was killing the gpu of a ps3/360, they could always render at 480p anyway.

The 360/PS3 processors are really much more advanced. Think about it like if you had a PC and you had a video card from several years ago vs the current PC state of the art- yes, the difference it's that big.

But that said, it doesn't mean you can't do compelling experiences on the Wii. Having to render only at 480p helps the Wii. If you can do Resident Evil on the gamecube the way it ended up loooking having 50% more GPU power (and more on the cpu power vs the cube) you can definitively come up with something as a game deigner that still looks quite cool.

- Raist

O RLY? Where are your numbers to prove its "only" "50% more than GC".

Again, dont assume i am saying Wii is more powerful than 360 or PS3. I am saying its a beast for its size, and resolution output, AND can do every effect the 360 or PS3 can.

[Han_Solo]

The cpu not being 3Ghz doesn't have to do with Wii running at 480p per se. Higher resolution can have or not the same polygon count of a 480p game, you just get higher resolution graphics. The one that is affected by this stat more than anything is the gpu, but for the cpu if you want physics and better AI you still need a higher Mhz count.

- Raist

Yes basically resolution specs need to be considered off the GPU Hz, Pipelines, textile units and bandwidths (sometimes).

[Raist3d]

I dont think your brilliant mind is thinking. If the so called "developer" did output the CPU specs, why not Hollywood GPU specs as well? This assures me that ATI is still NOT finished with it. And by the interviews conducted from ATI; they say its a brand new design, based of Flipper. This tells me, that their will be components of Flipper with MORE hardwired units.

Common sense right?


Not at all. A console that is launching in mere months *BETTER* be finished by now. You can't make a hardware change on a cpu just like that and expect mass market consumer numbers out of the factory. Unless of course, Wii is delayed. Now, this paragraph, is common sense. If you think they can just modify it like that (and yes, all the way from March) you really have no idea how chip design/manufacturing works.

And also the developer did mention gpu specs as well:

"- The GPU of the Wii is identical to the GC’s but it is on average 1.5X faster."

Did you miss that part? It's right at the beginning of the information.


Oh i did comment about the bandwidth spec; its all correct under what i did. I just havent seen you take the time and prove me wrong in the spec. You use words and say "its wrong"...


You didn't. My comment was about the comparison you did with 360 which is way off because you didn't address the fact that the 360 can also do the same S3TC texture compression. I pointed this out. I also pointed out of course that you tout the numbers yet these are all best cases for compressed data- not all the data is going to be compressed like this.

Don't keep evading the points. They are very specific.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

O RLY? Where are your numbers to prove its "only" "50% more than GC".

Again, dont assume i am saying Wii is more powerful than 360 or PS3. I am saying its a beast for its size, and resolution output, AND can do every effect the 360 or PS3 can.

I am not assuming you are. This is the 2nd time I clarify this. I pointed out (which you continue to totally avoid any comments on ) the fact that you compared in relative specs the bandwidth of the Wii and the 360, without using the same ruler- not using texture compresssion which the 360 has.

- Raist

[Han_Solo]

I was a little lost on the resolution of the 360 and Wii so I looked some things up. Sorry for my ignorance in this, but I'm not an expert or anything.

Thats fine mate.

The Wii will run at 480i and some games will be compatible with 480p. My only thought is.. Will games that don't support 480p be shown in 480p if I tell my Wii's dashboard to display at 480p?

Wii is at default 480p resolution. When running on a normal TV, it doesnt scale anything; just plays in 480i. Its the same resolution basically, except not progressive. NO framerate or Hz will be lost due to this, or gained.

Most games for the 360 are made in 720p and 1080i resolutions. Games like PGR3 are made in 720p but can be up-scaled to 1080i. It can also be played on my old television. Other games like Call of Duty 2 support both 720p and 1080i. Are these games downscaled to 720p?

Im quite suprised that everyone seems to think 720p is the starting point. ALL 360 games HAVE to render at 1080i when being developed, lower resolutions are not downscaled by the console, or by the TV, for example 1080i to 720p. Its like changing your PC resolution specs in-game.

I run my PC at 1024x768. If I raise the resolution very much then my games start to slow down.

Yes due to Hz speed and pipelines, memory included.

That means I need a much better computer and graphics card to run at higher resolutions.

Not really; Just overclock (if you can) to a higher Hz range.

daps said earlier that you get a 20% dock in power for running at 1080i. Is this true?

For 360, NO.

I know its at least that much if not more of a dock on my PC. Since the Wii only runs at 480p and the 360 at 1080i, doesn't that catch the Wii up just a little bit?

Yes, Wii can save up alot of fillrate due to this, and then can render much more per scene, or run more effects in software. This in turn will make it as good as 360 in a REAL WORLD scenerio.

[Han_Solo]

Not at all. A console that is launching in mere months *BETTER* be finished by now.

Link to the info of Wii hardware, ESPICIALLY THE GPU that has been finished in design? YOU are the one not catching the ball.

You can't make a hardware change on a cpu just like that and expect mass market consumer numbers out of the factory.

We are talking about the GPU here.

Unless of course, Wii is delayed.

I wouldnt count on that.

Now, this paragraph, is common sense.

LOL no it does not.

If you think they can just modify it like that (and yes, all the way from March) you really have no idea how chip design/manufacturing works.

O RLY? Chips are always being tweaked even when the console is out. These tweaks are to make sure it doesnt stack up on the consumer, and doesnt mean upgraging it. Everything is consistently being tweaked. Hollywood is NOT finished, and could easily be manufactured in 4 months tops.

And also the developer did mention gpu specs as well:

:eek:

"- The GPU of the Wii is identical to the GC’s but it is on average 1.5X faster."

:confused: .......So all he says 1.5x Flipper. Wow, thats the most amount of tech info EVER. REJOICE.

Did you miss that part? It's right at the beginning of the information.

No i was looking for the actual innard specs of Hollywood, like the way Broadway was explained. This is why i assumed Flippers design with 64 more MB's and a faster clock, ALSO assuming double the pipelines.


You didn't. My comment was about the comparison you did with 360 which is way off because you didn't address the fact that the 360 can also do the same S3TC texture compression. I pointed this out. I also pointed out of course that you tout the numbers yet these are all best cases for compressed data- not all the data is going to be compressed like this.

360 does not even need S3TC 6:1 texture compression. If at all, maby 4:1 normal map compression. Its pipelines are too much for such a need. Infact bottlenecks can occure, because of an overload of speed on one side.

Dude, do you even know flippers innards? Its bandwidth STILL rivals last generation of PC cards. I basically calculated all bandwidth numbers with your so called "developer" of 486 MHz. Right? THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS. Stop being a fanboy and accept the truth.

Don't keep evading the points. They are very specific.

Dude, all im saying is Wii is more powerful than everyone thinks it to be.

[Han_Solo]

I am not assuming you are. This is the 2nd time I clarify this. I pointed out (which you continue to totally avoid any comments on ) the fact that you compared in relative specs the bandwidth of the Wii and the 360, without using the same ruler- not using texture compresssion which the 360 has.

- Raist

OMG i cant believe this ignorance.

Ok, look, those specs ARE FROM THE MICROSOFT SITE. THEY ARE BASED ON THEIR CALCULATIONS. I looked at it again to see if its proof, and yes 360's 100% efficiency is that efficient, and THATS THE BANDWIDTH.

Wii on the other hand is just below, but in a THEORETICAL spec. COMMON SENSE would make you know that.

Geez. Get it in your head, 360 DOES NOT have S3TC compression.

[dreary79]

Im quite suprised that everyone seems to think 720p is the starting point. ALL 360 games HAVE to render at 1080i when being developed, lower resolutions are not downscaled by the console, or by the TV, for example 1080i to 720p. Its like changing your PC resolution specs in-game.
Thats not true. Look at the back of some game boxes. You'll see that the don't say 1080i on them. Check this out:
http://144.92.43.200/hdg/hdg.asp?submit=ShowGames

[Han_Solo]

No, but I didn't say you did, did I? I said "more than it is."

You clearly said "Your making it look 360 cant even do 480p."


You are totally misreading what I said. I didn't mean "assume" as in "will the Wii have it, perhaps not" kind of way. I meant that, you go with the texture compression to up the actual bandwidth of the Wii, but when you compare vs the 360 bandwidth, you then forget to allow the 360 the same very optimization on texture bandwidth that the Wii will use

This is where YOU dont understand. 360's specs are based of what the mircosoft site says, so basically even IF their is 6:1 compression, THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS. But really, there isnt 6:1 compression in the hardware, so those are the numbers WITHOUT.

when it has exactly the same* compression scheme. This is what makes your comparison or any point you tried to make with that completely invalid.

Prove to me my point is invalid? You clearly dont know the Xenos hardware. Again; their is NO S3TC compression in 360.

I never said you were saying the Wii gpu was superior. What I am saying is that you are not giving the 360 the same optimization so the relative bandwidth compared is not anywhere near what you presented.

O-M-G. Go and read up the 360 info. DONT tell me their is 6:1 compression on their lists, OR ATI's PDF File notes. The numbers are based on NO S3TC compression, because THEIR IS NONE. Wii on the other hand has this advantage.

Eh? Care to elaborate on that? Why you say "it really doesn't need it." That's up to the developer and what they want to do. If you are draing more stuff on the screen with more textures you need more texture bandwidth. If you want to save more previous vram, you can certainly make use of the texture compression. Regardless, this doesn't affect the relatively comparison at all.

Simple; its a hardwired rythm. Its what the dynamic shaders were made for. 48 shaders + 500 MHz, 256 GB's/sec eDRAM performance, enough? no? This is MORE than enough at the desired resolution. And no, the developers will not even have the time to make textures their theoretical size.

Actually the 360 doesn't have a 1080p output.

:eek: O RLY YOU DONT SAY!!!!111oneoneone

Theoretically it can run @ 1080p.

What your math is missing is putting the Wii on true relative terms to the 360. You let the Wii have optimizations in compression but not the 360 and then proceed to compare. That's completely BS.

Sorry but accept the truth. Their is NO Optimizations going on, its your pure fanboyism to the xbox. This is Wii's advantage; 360 does not support S3TC compression. This still doesnt mean Hollywood is more powerful theoretically than the Xenos. Please stop the "ZOMG O NOES".

Moreover, you mention compression left and right without taking into account it's not an always thing. The 4:1 compression on cpu side is for vertexes only, not for general data.

For data as well. I didnt compare the CPU to Xenon, because OBVIOUSLY the Xenon is more powerful. For the sake of Wii, its more than enough.

Where and when? The hardware specs page Nintendo has doesn't mention such thing.

Ok, so i guess your some try hard wannabe tech guy, that thinks he knows everything. Go read your "developer" spec sheet again, and dont come back saying it doesnt have "GDDR3" memory written on it, espicially for a MEM2 support, which is ridiculous.



You are so funny.

Why thank you, i took drama and speech classes.

You do a bunch of bogus claims

And those are?

whose burden of proof lies on you

Not on ME, but to this other developer as well. How do i know its NOT a final SDK, common experienced sense right?

When I mentioned the pipelines I referred to dynamic shaders. The machine doesn't have them.

Link to where the Hollywood info is. Show me it doesnt have, or show me it has.

As for MP3 I have no idea who the guy is

OK that made me laugh.........:eek:

and just becuase it's written on the net doesn't mean its true.

Same can be said about these so called specs right? Same can be said about my opinions right? same could be said about YOUR ASSUMTIONS TO MY CLAIMS right?

Assuming it is, all the tricks you can do to fake HDR (if it actually comes close to faking it) can be done on any of the higher order machines (i.e. ps3/360) with far more performance and flexibility.

Faking HDR is not possible. HDR is a pure mathematical concept (Bloom lighting + Light Scattering). In MP3, watch the videos, and you will definately notice Lightscattering with a form of bloom lighting. Close to HDR.

And you know, I am not saying the Wii's bad. I am just saying it is what it is and it's fine (I think I have said this at least 3 times already). I am not saying Wii is a bad machine. Somehow insecurity sets in when some Wii fans realize the machine is just game-square or game-cubed.

No sorry, your the one jumping to defense of my claims. You claim I AM WRONG? Dude, whos the fanboy now.

Not all games go to 1080i. And there are faqs that explain the game internally does 720p and the machine scales to 1080i. I would imagine this varies per game, some doing 720 only, some capable of true 1080i, and some doing the scaling if you want a higher rez. So no, it's not *all* standard 360 games. Microsoft themselves have said that games will run at 720p when talking about Sony's claims of 1080p, so go argue with them.

Its still obviously fact that, upscaling or not upscaling to 1080i, means the same upward fillrate needed is the same right? All 360 games run in 1080i, upscaled or not, but they all require the same amount of fillrate needed, and it shows its easy for it to run at that resolution.

I never said you mentioned "Wii is more powerful than 360". What I said was that you were making the machine seem more than what it is. Your flawed 360 graphics comparison a prime example of that.

Ok if you want to claim that the OFFICIAL 360 GPU specs are wrong, go and talk to Bill gates or something. I double checked to see if bill gates was lying about the specs, i calculated to exactly the same. Wii also, with the added advantage of S3TC compression.

I didn't say 240p or 320x180. But for the record, from xbox.com:

You do not need a TV that supports high definition to use the Xbox 360 system. Like all consoles before it, Xbox 360 works perfectly on standard-definition TVs (the resolution for standard def is 480 interlace).


If you're using the Xbox 360 VGA HD AV Cable to connect your Xbox 360 console to a computer monitor or TV monitor with a VGA connection, you'll have the opportunity to select from a variety of resolutions. They are:

* 640 x 480
* 848 x 480
* 1024 x 768
* 1280 x 720 (equivalent to 720p)
* 1280 x 768
* 1280 x 1024
* 1360 x 768

Sarcasm detector off?

[Han_Solo]

Thats not true. Look at the back of some game boxes. You'll see that the don't say 1080i on them. Check this out:
http://144.92.43.200/hdg/hdg.asp?submit=ShowGames

Yeah, and nearly all of them are Xbox 1 games.

PGR3 is not 1080i, which suprises me.

[Han_Solo]

Xenos texture capabilities include support for DXTC (S3TC) texture compression routines as well as various other compression routines that are DXTC like in their operation. ATI2N (3Dc) is supported, as this is more or less just a twist of DXTC operation, as well as other compression formats that would be useful for normal maps.THERE ARE NO COMPRESSION METHODS AVAILABLE FOR FLOAT TEXTURE FORMATS

Straight from Beyond3D.

Read the bold and the underlined is exactly what im saying. 4:1 normal map compression, no texture compression.

I then realize you were saying SOME SORT of S3TC compression, why didnt you say DXTC, and i would have understood.

[Raist3d]

OMG i cant believe this ignorance.

Me neither....


Ok, look, those specs ARE FROM THE MICROSOFT SITE. THEY ARE BASED ON THEIR CALCULATIONS. I looked at it again to see if its proof, and yes 360's 100% efficiency is that efficient, and THATS THE BANDWIDTH.


Huh? I am not saying that's not their bandwidth. I am saying you inflated the Wii bandwidth relying on texture compression and all I am saying is you can do the same with the 360. Dont' compare one spec relying on compression and the other without- when it can and will and does it.


Geez. Get it in your head, 360 DOES NOT have S3TC compression.

Yeah, I can't believe such ignorance either. Why don't you get educated:

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=06

"Xenos texture capabilities include support for DXTC (S3TC) texture compression routines as well as various other compression routines that are DXTC like in their operation. ATI2N (3Dc) is supported, as this is more or less just a twist of DXTC operation, as well as other compression formats that would be useful for normal maps. There are no compression methods available for float texture formats, although there are a total of 64 different texture formats supported."

Is this surprising considering that ATI has been doing S3TC for ages and Microsoft supports it in the Direct 3D API- for years now? Common sense would dictacte that it does, but here you have to come in and make the charge it doesn't. So read that link and get educated please.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Straight from Beyond3D.

Read the bold and the underlined is exactly what im saying. 4:1 normal map compression, no texture compression.

I then realize you were saying SOME SORT of S3TC compression, why didnt you say DXTC, and i would have understood.

That's S3TC. It CLEARLY says S3TC *along* with others. Can't you read?

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Straight from Beyond3D.
SOME SORT of S3TC compression, why didnt you say DXTC, and i would have understood.

Apparently you wouldn't because DXTC *is* S3TC.

From the wikipedia:

"
S3 Texture Compression (S3TC) (sometimes also called DXTn or DXTC) is a group of related image compression algorithms originally developed by S3 Graphics, Ltd."

DXTC is the name Microsoft gave it when they incorporated it into the Direct 3D API. But you already knew that right?

- Raist

[Han_Solo]

Me neither....

Then stop!

Huh? I am not saying that's not their bandwidth. I am saying you inflated the Wii bandwidth relying on texture compression and all I am saying is you can do the same with the 360. Dont' compare one spec relying on compression and the other without- when it can and will and does it.

It seems your not understanding.

Hollywood bandwidth spec = With compression at a theoretical state.

Xenos bandwith spec = With DXTC compression at a theoretical state.


Yeah, I can't believe such ignorance either. Why don't you get educated:

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=06

"Xenos texture capabilities include support for DXTC (S3TC) texture compression routines as well as various other compression routines that are DXTC like in their operation. ATI2N (3Dc) is supported, as this is more or less just a twist of DXTC operation, as well as other compression formats that would be useful for normal maps. There are no compression methods available for float texture formats, although there are a total of 64 different texture formats supported."

Is this surprising considering that ATI has been doing S3TC for ages and Microsoft supports it in the Direct 3D API- for years now? Common sense would dictacte that it does, but here you have to come in and make the charge it doesn't. So read that link and get educated please.

- Raist

Read my next post, I quickly looked to see what the hell is this S3TC your claiming, and its actually the DXTC all along. Why didnt you say that in the first place? Its different to textures you know; long before i said "Suited more for normal maps", and i was right.

[Han_Solo]

Apparently you wouldn't because DXTC *is* S3TC.

From the wikipedia:

"
S3 Texture Compression (S3TC) (sometimes also called DXTn or DXTC) is a group of related image compression algorithms originally developed by S3 Graphics, Ltd."

DXTC is the name Microsoft gave it when they incorporated it into the Direct 3D API. But you already knew that right?

- Raist

Yes, which in turn is suited for normal maps. Im still vague on texture compression, as their is NO need.

[Raist3d]

Yes, which in turn is suited for normal maps. Im still vague on texture compression, as their is NO need.

That's 3Dc. DXTC is S3TC.

I already provided links to this extent. The Beyond3D article clearly refers to it like that. The Wikipedia also. Care to provide *any* link which explains in detail what their difference (DXTC and S3TC) is?

- Raist

PS: You can always make better use of ram. Texture compression has a place on 360. There will be games that you want to save ram for other things and having the compression allows you to do bigger textures.

But you, should already know that.

[Raist3d]

Read my next post, I quickly looked to see what the hell is this S3TC your claiming, and its actually the DXTC all along. Why didnt you say that in the first place?


Because it's the same thing! But you know, this is completely irrelevant anyway to the bandwidth thing. Even if it wasn't S3TC, what matters is that there is a compression that effectively multiplies the bandwidth also on the 360.

- Raist

[Han_Solo]

That's 3Dc. DXTC is S3TC.

I already provided links to this extent. The Beyond3D article clearly refers to it like that. The Wikipedia also. Care to provide *any* link which explains in detail what their difference (DXTC and S3TC) is?

- Raist

PS: You can always make better use of ram. Texture compression has a place on 360. There will be games that you want to save ram for other things and having the compression allows you to do bigger textures.

But you, should already know that.

Ofcourse i know that, but you should know that it DOES NOT need it. Its feature thus has been used for normal map compression which is MUCH more taxing than plain texture mapping.

[Han_Solo]

Because it's the same thing! But you know, this is completely irrelevant anyway to the bandwidth thing. Even if it wasn't S3TC, what matters is that there is a compression that effectively multiplies the bandwidth also on the 360.

- Raist

Yes, i think your getting it. Finally. Those bandwidth numbers were already inclucding the DXTC compression methods.

[Raist3d]

Ofcourse i know that, but you should know that it DOES NOT need it. Its feature thus has been used for normal map compression which is MUCH more taxing than plain texture mapping.

You are completely sidestepping the point. You't have an entire world normal mapped. Plain texture mapping is still taxing as far as RAM goes when you have a lot of nice art and all that. It all depends on the game you are doing.

2nd - the whole point was, 360 has compression too. You just blatantly called me ignorant for saying it doesn't support S3TC *which clearly does*.

Care to admit you were wrong? It's fine. I wont berate you for it. Remember, you told met "get it through your head."

- Raist

[Han_Solo]

You are completely sidestepping the point. You't have an entire world normal mapped. Plain texture mapping is still taxing as far as RAM goes when you have a lot of nice art and all that. It all depends on the game you are doing.

2nd - the whole point was, 360 has compression too. You just blatantly called me ignorant for saying it doesn't support S3TC *which clearly does*.

Care to admit you were wrong? It's fine. I wont berate you for it. Remember, you told met "get it through your head."

- Raist

I aside the fact that i was half wrong, since you clearly stated bluntly "S3TC". If you said DXTC otherwise then fine.

DXTC, although based on S3TC, is quite different; so therefore we are BOTH half wrong.

[Han_Solo]

In anycase, both the bandwidth numbers are based on the compression being used.

[Raist3d]

I aside the fact that i was half wrong, since you clearly stated bluntly "S3TC". If you said DXTC otherwise then fine.

DXTC, although based on S3TC, is quite different; so therefore we are BOTH half wrong.

Yes, I said S3TC because DXTC and S3TC are the same thing. Or are you going to quibble on different names for the same thing?

This is silly.

OH btw, the specs you cited ARE NOT taking into account texture compression. Those are raw bandwidth numbers of the 360.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

In anycase, both the bandwidth numbers are based on the compression being used.

Incorrect.

- Raist

Update: for your convenience

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=03

Maybe you should read the whole thing.

[RnSK]

Raist3d...

All you must do is simply say, "OK, fine, the Wii is probably a bit more than a GameCube with a speedbump" (which is obviously true).

Han...

You can stop with the "Roddenberry Mathematics". Everyone knows that:

1. The Graphics Capabilities of the Wii are superior than that of the GameCube, if for nothing else, the type of effects its capable of generating.

2. The Wii is not a GameCube.

3. The Wii's graphics, while not 360/PS3 level, are more than a slight improvement for Nintendo's previous generation machine, and are certain to be quite special.

4. No one that really cares about the Wii system cares about points 1, 2 and 3. Your pissing match is *pointless* in the grand scheme of things.

You both need to ask yourselves why you have such a vested interest in this matter; on the one side, you have Raist3d's claims that "people are trying to make the Wii into something that it is not..." without stating what he thinks it is (tho I will guess the words "merely" and "GameCube" are involved) and on the other Han trying to dazzle...somebody...with a bunch of numbers that are about as useful as tits on a tree.

I mean they are nice to *look at* but not very useful.

I think Han, your demeanor *defines* "rabid fanboy"...virtually no one over the age of 22 that is interested in buying a Wii system is interested at all in this numbers foolishness. Its like you are trying to justify something that needs neither justification nor defense.

Raist3d? Not feelin' ya man. If your points were like 'playability and "fun interactive social gameplay' are not possible with the Wii...then well, maybe you'd be on to something.

So, I believe that if we can all agree that the Wii is substantially more than "a GameCube with a speed bump, but doesn't have the High Def graphics of a 360 or PS3" we can all live in peace and move on.

[Raist3d]

Raist3d...

All you must do is simply say, "OK, fine, the Wii is probably a bit more than a GameCube with a speedbump" (which is obviously true).


It depends what you mean by that.



1. The Graphics Capabilities of the Wii are superior than that of the GameCube, if for nothing else, the type of effects its capable of generating.


Like what?

2. The Wii is not a GameCube.


3. The Wii's graphics, while not 360/PS3 level, are more than a slight improvement for Nintendo's previous generation machine, and are certain to be quite special.


In what sense... the gpu's just faster.


4. No one that really cares about the Wii system cares about points 1, 2 and


Well people that are going for a 360/ps3 are. But quite frankly, I agree that it's less of an issue really.


3. Your pissing match is *pointless* in the grand scheme of things.


Probably though you certainly decided to join the thread...


[/quote]
You both need to ask yourselves why you have such a vested interest in this matter; on the one side, you have Raist3d's claims that "people are trying to make the Wii into something that it is not..." without stating what he thinks it is (tho I will guess the words "merely" and "GameCube" are involved) and on the other Han trying to dazzle...somebody...with a bunch of numbers that are about as useful as tits on a tree.


I believe I have stated already what I beleive. I found the developer leaked docs reasonsable. I never said "merely" and "gamecube." So I am not hiding behind ambiguity, I believe it's quite clear.

As for vested interest I already mentioned, when I started this post. I dont' think there's anything more to it or less. I find the Wii fine.

[quote]
Raist3d? Not feelin' ya man. If your points were like 'playability and "fun interactive social gameplay' are not possible with the Wii...then well, maybe you'd be on to something.


Again, I don't understand why it is so complex to understand what I already stated. Just pointing out- people should accept Wii for what it is. I just see a bunch of BS and thought to point it out, that's all. I am not implying you can't do compelling experiences in Wii, in fact, I already said this.


So, I believe that if we can all agree that the Wii is substantially more than "a GameCube with a speed bump, but doesn't have the High Def graphics of a 360 or PS3" we can all live in peace and move on.

It depends what you mean by substantially more. The graphics, are the same except for speed, though you can certainly do more with more ram. The main difference more than anything really is the control Nintendo is bringing to the table and some tiny but important key features.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

You clearly said "Your making it look 360 cant even do 480p."



This is where YOU dont understand. 360's specs are based of what the mircosoft site says, so basically even IF their is 6:1 compression, THOSE ARE THE NUMBERS. But really, there isnt 6:1 compression in the hardware, so those are the numbers WITHOUT.



Prove to me my point is invalid? You clearly dont know the Xenos hardware. Again; their is NO S3TC compression in 360.




O-M-G. Go and read up the 360 info. DONT tell me their is 6:1 compression on their lists, OR ATI's PDF File notes. The numbers are based on NO S3TC compression, because THEIR IS NONE. Wii on the other hand has this advantage.


No comment on "360's lack of S3TC" claim :-) It's just speaks for itself.


Simple; its a hardwired rythm. Its what the dynamic shaders were made for. 48 shaders + 500 MHz, 256 GB's/sec eDRAM performance, enough? no? This is MORE than enough at the desired resolution. And no, the developers will not even have the time to make textures their theoretical size.


You really don't have any graphics experience, do you?


:eek: O RLY YOU DONT SAY!!!!111oneoneone

Theoretically it can run @ 1080p.


Ok, you make the claim, you back it up. Where is it? Where's that.


Sorry but accept the truth. Their is NO Optimizations going on, its your pure fanboyism to the xbox.


Interesting given I have said (now at least 3 times) that the Wii is fine.


This is Wii's advantage; 360 does not support S3TC compression.


Oh dear.


Link to where the Hollywood info is. Show me it doesnt have, or show me it has.


What part of the word "identical" you didn't get from the leaked specs.




No sorry, your the one jumping to defense of my claims. You claim I AM WRONG? Dude, whos the fanboy now.


You obviously.



Its still obviously fact that, upscaling or not upscaling to 1080i, means the same upward fillrate needed is the same right? All 360 games run in 1080i,


No. If the circuitry that upscales it just takes the signal and upscales you don't require more bandwidth. The very old 3DO system had such a scheme.


upscaled or not, but they all require the same amount of fillrate needed, and it shows its easy for it to run at that resolution.


No, incorrect.

- Raist

[Han_Solo]

Incorrect.

- Raist

Update: for your convenience

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=03

Maybe you should read the whole thing.


I did mate, long ago.

[Han_Solo]

Raist3d...

All you must do is simply say, "OK, fine, the Wii is probably a bit more than a GameCube with a speedbump" (which is obviously true).

O Rly?

Han...

Yeah?

You can stop with the "Roddenberry Mathematics". Everyone knows that:

Why stop the technical facts? Is their some other way to prove Wii is much more than what fanboys claim? NO!

For the record, if you knew what i was talking about, then dont come in bitching about it.

1. The Graphics Capabilities of the Wii are superior than that of the GameCube, if for nothing else, the type of effects its capable of generating.

Obviously

2. The Wii is not a GameCube.

Half wrong; Its unique control scheme makes it 50% different to GCN. Hardware-wise, Wii is GCN x3-4

3. The Wii's graphics, while not 360/PS3 level, are more than a slight improvement for Nintendo's previous generation machine, and are certain to be quite special.

I think "slight improvement" is a complete understatement.

4. No one that really cares about the Wii system cares about points 1, 2 and 3. Your pissing match is *pointless* in the grand scheme of things.

Sorry to blow your bubble little fanboy, but i think specs and control dynamics are the main part of a consumers question, right?

You both need to ask yourselves why you have such a vested interest in this matter; on the one side, you have Raist3d's claims that "people are trying to make the Wii into something that it is not..."

Ok, so Wii is not Wii. I am claiming that Wii doesnt have the unique interface, and its MUCH more powerful than 360..../sarcasm

Han trying to dazzle...somebody...with a bunch of numbers that are about as useful as tits on a tree.

Then why reply and interfere with the topic at hand? If its of NO use to you, then buzz off. I am just claiming otherwise of the fraud.

I think Han, your demeanor *defines* "rabid fanboy"...virtually no one over the age of 22 that is interested in buying a Wii system is interested at all in this numbers foolishness. Its like you are trying to justify something that needs neither justification nor defense.

No sorry, this is going to go on forever. I am not what you think i am. I am just interested in what the numbers will become, given what the "developers" starting numbers are.

[Han_Solo]

No comment on "360's lack of S3TC" claim :-) It's just speaks for itself.

Should have mentioned DXTC and this longgggg page would not have happened :cool: ;).

You really don't have any graphics experience, do you?

I think i do, and isnt your sarcasm detector on?

Ok, you make the claim, you back it up. Where is it? Where's that.

Well your the one claiming Graphical Knowledge; so use it!...Use common sense, with the hardware specs in mind, and you will realise that it is possible. Stop trying to be spoon fed, and make assumptions.

Interesting given I have said (now at least 3 times) that the Wii is fine.

Yes, its one hell of a beast, in a very efficient way.

Oh dear.

rofl :D

What part of the word "identical" you didn't get from the leaked specs.

Then how come there are HUGE leaps in the graphical demos already out?


No. If the circuitry that upscales it just takes the signal and upscales you don't require more bandwidth. The very old 3DO system had such a scheme.

Yes, thats correct. I am confused on that one, though usually its always the GPU that "upscales" just like a PC GPU.

[Havok154]

Can we get these two split off into their own thread, or better yet, just PM your arguments to each other.

[Raist3d]

I did mate, long ago.

Well the evidence points to the contrary because if you really did (or perhaps, didn't understand it), you would never have said 360 doesn't have S3TC nor defend the bandwidth claims saying, it's counting on the compression too (it's not).

This is pretty evident from reading what you wrote and the discrepancy with the link presented in the article so obviously either you didn't read it, read it but didn't understand it, or forgot about it.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Should have mentioned DXTC and this longgggg page would not have happened :cool: ;).

For the 4th time+ - I didn't have to becuase if YOU KNEW what you were talking about you realize IT'S THE SAME THING. You repeated yourself saying it doesn't how many times? You said you read the Beyond3d article long time ago- did you understand it? Do you realize how idiotic it looks you still say "should have said DXTC?"

[quote]
I think i do, and isnt your sarcasm detector on?


It's not showing. And it's just hard to tell about sarcasm since you are intermixing your "facts" and all with it. Maybe all your claims about DXTC are sarcasm too? Same with the bandwidth claims? - oh yeah, this is sarcasm.



Well your the one claiming Graphical Knowledge; so use it!...Use common sense, with the hardware specs in mind, and you will realise that it is possible. Stop trying to be spoon fed, and make assumptions.


Don't sidestep the point. Where is the evidence 360 can do 1080p. You made the claim, back it up. I am also not trying to spoon fed- I have provided links that presented facts proving your claims wrong.


Yes, its one hell of a beast, in a very efficient way.


[quote]
Then how come there are HUGE leaps in the graphical demos already out?


Where? I didn't see any at E3. I mean, you were at E3, right?


Yes, thats correct. I am confused on that one, though usually its always the GPU that "upscales" just like a PC GPU.

You are confused on more than that one, if you just admited it, it would just be all good.

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Can we get these two split off into their own thread, or better yet, just PM your arguments to each other.

No worries. I am done. I think the articles and evidence speaks for itself and I am not going to waste anymore of my time.

Hence my last post in this thread.

- Raist

[Rafalapso]

Original News Post:
Broadway CPU

Broadway is Wii's CPU. Broadway functionality and specifications are as follows.

• Operating speed: 729 MHz
• Bus to main memory: 243 MHz, 64 bits (maximum bandwidth: 1.9 gigabytes/sec)
• 32-kilobyte 8-way set-associative L1 instruction cache
• 32-kilobyte 8-way set-associative L1 data cache (can set up 16-kilobyte data scratch pad)
• Superscalar microprocessor with six execution units (floating-point unit, branching unit, system regis
ter unit, load/store unit, two integer units)
• DMA unit (15-entry DMA request queue) used by 16-kilobyte data scratch pad
• Write-gather buffer for writing graphics command lists to the graphics chip
• Onboard 256-kilobyte 2-way set-associative L2 integrated cache
• Two, 32-bit integer units (IU)
• One floating point unit (FPU) (supports single precision (32-bit) and double precision (64-bit))
• The FPU supports paired single floating point (FP/PS)
• The FPU supports paired single multiply add (ps_madd). Most FP/PS instructions can be issued in
each cycle and completed in three cycles.
• Fixed-point to floating-point conversion can be performed at the same time as FPU register load and
store, with no loss in performance.
• The branch unit supports static branch prediction and dynamic branch prediction.
• When an instruction is stalled on data, the next instruction can be issued and executed. All instructions
maintain program logic and will complete in the correct program order.
• Supports three L2 cache fetch modes: 32-Byte, 64-Byte, and 128-Byte.
• Supports these bus pipeline depth levels: level 2, level 3, and level 4.
Reference Information: Broadway is upward compatible with Nintendo GameCube’s CPU (Gekko).


http://pabut.homeip.net:8000/yagcd/chap2.html (13/09/2004) (http://pabut.homeip.net:8000/yagcd/chap2.html)
2 Gamecube Hardware Introduction
The GameCube is a powerful piece of hardware. The whole system is based on the IBM PowerPC Gekko processor and the custom ATI Flipper video system. The PowerPC Gekko processor is really just a PowerPC 750 with a few enhancements.
index
2.1 enhanced PowerPC 750 Specification
486 MHz internal processor clock
200 MHz 64-bit bus width to main memory (1.6 Gigabytes per second maximum)
32KB associative L1 Icache
32KB associative L1 Dcache with 16KB data scratchpad
Super-scalar microprocessor with five different execution units:
2 integer units, 1 FPU, and 1 loadstore unit and branch unit
DMA unit servicing 16KB data scratchpad.
DMA request queue - 15-entry.
Write-gather buffer for writing graphics command lists to the video system.
Embedded 256KB 2-way set-associative L2 unified cache.
2 32-bit Integer Units (IU)
1 FPU, 32 and 64-bit bus width
The FPU supports Floating Point Paired Singles (FP/PS)
Branch Unit provides static AND dynamic branch prediction
Features Out-Of-Order execution which means that when an instruction delays because of data access, subsequent opcodes can continue to be decoded and executed.

Broadway = Overclocked Gekko or
This specs are a joke?

You decide...

[SONIC]

Not to stir things up, but:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060802-7407.html

[Havok154]

Not to stir things up, but:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060802-7407.html

Ouch, someone just tore Maxconsole a new one, but I agree, the specs seems highly.....crappy. Especially for components that actually are taking the companies a decent amount of time to work on. If it was just an OC of a GC, then why not bring the Wii out 6 months ago instead of all this extra time for what, a remote. Highly unlikely.

[Raist3d]

Well, isn't everyone in for a surprise then :-)

- Raist

[Raist3d]

Ouch, someone just tore Maxconsole a new one, but I agree, the specs seems highly.....crappy. Especially for components that actually are taking the companies a decent amount of time to work on. If it was just an OC of a GC, then why not bring the Wii out 6 months ago instead of all this extra time for what, a remote. Highly unlikely.

The little extra things Wii has that can make a huge difference. Like the 24 hour Wii connect. The Controller- yes, this doesn't come easy to develop. You have to even code / prototype games to see how it really feels in use. That's not easy! That takes both time and cash.

But put things in perspective: how big in size is the Wii? Pretty small huh? Someone at Ars mentions the mac mini as proof you can pack more power in that size- oh sure, but the mac mini costs how much? And even adding a hardisk doesn't make the difference. The graphics of the wii are for games better anyway than what the mac mini pacs...

Last time I checked mac minis had a fan. I haven't seen the latest core duo ones, but I am inclined to think they still have one. The Wii if Nintendo's claims for silence are any indication, is most likely fanless. This also means you can't pack too much power in there - or the price of the machine goes up since it's a variable in making things smaller also.

Someone in another forum wisely mentioned that countries are starting to regulate and put a cap on how much power an item on standby can draw, to keep power consumption to a minimum... Wii has to deal with this too.

Keep in mind then what the original gamecube could do... graphics wise.. Resident Evil 4 doesn't look bad at all even by current standards... a 2x power up on that would make it look even better... you can still do compelling experiences on the little machine.

- Raist

[darkgarlic]

Guys,

Even if these specs are final and true, how the heck do you know how it'll play? My eMachines 666MhZ peice of crap runs faster than my 1.0GhZ XP when it's running Linux. It all depends on how efficient the OS is. Same with Macs. 1.66GhZ Mac is a hecka lot faster than a 2.5GhZ Dell.

You're right. If this is true and all, maybe I am a little dissapointed. But that's because I've seen what Microsoft can do with 800MhZ, not Nintendo.:D

No point bashing the big N before he's shown what he can do, right?

Release date and price should come before the end of August, and I'm psyched.

[darkgarlic]

The one thing you're forgetting, is that Wii isn't released yet. You don't know crap. And you're assuming Mr. Anonymous hasn't pulled these numbers out of his head. I think that wii.nintendo.com is a lot more credible than some dude who claims he's a wii dev.

Keep your Nintendo-bashing, wii-hating, and pro-xcrap-ing to yourself. At least until the wii is actually released!

Han, Raist. Get a room.

[Raist3d]

The one thing you're forgetting, is that Wii isn't released yet. You don't know crap. And you're assuming Mr. Anonymous hasn't pulled these numbers out of his head. I think that wii.nintendo.com is a lot more credible than some dude who claims he's a wii dev.

Keep your Nintendo-bashing, wii-hating, and pro-xcrap-ing to yourself. At least until the wii is actually released!

Han, Raist. Get a room.

What part of "it's fine" when I referred to the Wii you didn't read that caused you to believe that I am a pro-xbox fanboy? Ridiculous. I don't even own one. As for numbers when you get multiple leaks virtually confirming each other with the known fact how much it has been stressed publically that if you know gamecube it will be easy to go to Wii.... you can reach your own conclusions.

This thread is old news anyway.


- Raist

[BakaHitsuji]

by the way, I am 16 years old, and I know this, so for those 20-30 year old nerds that talking and talking and seeming like their life is important and have enough action in online forums, is your life, well guess what, you dont, you might as well keep grabbing your hotpocket and keep sticking it up your a$$ and jacking off to 8 year old anime girls cuz at least it wont piss off people, when someone says something, listen to them, then debate, not start talking back and forth about something that neither has the truth of word, sonofabitch, i actually got angry, i'm proud though, i actually prevented myself of using fu** many times over, i think my keyboard isnt so well though, i poked in the backspace key eeeek, noooo, my keyyybeyyyy, it all your fault! or whatever, just damit try to listen to each others and actually get to the bottom of what the article states and means, believe it or not, theres actually people who are interested in ALL the systems, and try to find out which one to buy, would like some help. ect. btw, for those who like to do the talking, dont talk sh*t after i post this cuz its just gona remind me of how insignificant you are. and for those who have actually given facts in this forum entry, thank you, you should be proud that you did, and for those who did also, but got off track and sank to the level of the others, change, or shoot yourself.

[Havok154]

by the way, I am 16 years old, and I know this, so for those 20-30 year old nerds that talking and talking and seeming like their life is important and have enough action in online forums, is your life, well guess what, you dont, you might as well keep grabbing your hotpocket and keep sticking it up your a$$ and jacking off to 8 year old anime girls cuz at least it wont piss off people, when someone says something, listen to them, then debate, not start talking back and forth about something that neither has the truth of word, sonofabitch, i actually got angry, i'm proud though, i actually prevented myself of using fu** many times over, i think my keyboard isnt so well though, i poked in the backspace key eeeek, noooo, my keyyybeyyyy, it all your fault! or whatever, just damit try to listen to each others and actually get to the bottom of what the article states and means, believe it or not, theres actually people who are interested in ALL the systems, and try to find out which one to buy, would like some help. ect. btw, for those who like to do the talking, dont talk sh*t after i post this cuz its just gona remind me of how insignificant you are. and for those who have actually given facts in this forum entry, thank you, you should be proud that you did, and for those who did also, but got off track and sank to the level of the others, change, or shoot yourself.

Just so you know, a comma is NOT a replacement for a period.

[BakaHitsuji]

oops, sorry, i thought it's an online forum where people spell tihngs worng and press unwanted ;sym,bols when they're typing fast. Well, but ok, my bad.:o

[Havok154]

oops, sorry, i thought it's an online forum where people spell tihngs worng and press unwanted ;sym,bols when they're typing fast. Well, but ok, my bad.:o
Just because others show their inability to speak and type coheriently, doesn't mean you have to. Mistakes are ok, but blatent disregard for basic grammer and spelling is just a reflection on myself, and I don't like to think that I just do a job that is "good enough", even on crappy forums. At least that's how I've always seen it.

[Raist3d]

Just so you know, a comma is NOT a replacement for a period.

ROTFLAMAO! Reminds me of the first Raiders where the swordsman does all sorts of stunts and Indie just pulls out his gun and shoots him :-)

- Raist

[NeoNight]

"64megabytes of GDDR3 (MEM2) as the external main memory. Just like the internal memory, it can be accessed from the CPU and GPU with a maximum bandwidth of 4gbytes/sec [ and can also store programs in the MEM2.]"


hmmmm That could be interesting for homebrew programers. ;)



edit: well assuming those are the correct specs lol :p



The little extra things Wii has that can make a huge difference. Like the 24 hour Wii connect. The Controller- yes, this doesn't come easy to develop. You have to even code / prototype games to see how it really feels in use. That's not easy! That takes both time and cash.




They wouldn't need IBM and ATI for that. What I mean by that is alot of money and research would still have been wasted if the Wii is only a slight improvement over the GC. Come on nintendo isn't stupid and am more then sure IBM and ATI (soon to be what ATI/AMD) isn't either.

[NeoNight]

delete adka;dfa;ljf;ajf;kf;jkf

[Raist3d]

They wouldn't need IBM and ATI for that. What I mean by that is alot of money and research would still have been wasted if the Wii is only a slight


Who says they have spent a lot of money and research? Any $$ quotes?

- Raist

[Havok154]

ROTFLAMAO! Reminds me of the first Raiders where the swordsman does all sorts of stunts and Indie just pulls out his gun and shoots him :-)

- Raist

Did you know that they originally planned a huge sword fight but Harrison Ford was sick, so they decided to make it easier and have him just shoot the guy. Best decision if you ask me.

[Raist3d]

Did you know that they originally planned a huge sword fight but Harrison Ford was sick, so they decided to make it easier and have him just shoot the guy. Best decision if you ask me.

That rings a bell. That's really funny :-)

- Raist

[daps83777]

Who says they have spent a lot of money and research? Any $$ quotes?

- Raist

well since the Wii gpu from ati has been in development for 5 years, you kinda assume that costs money and research, otherwise they could have just thrown together a cheap gpu, and it wouldn't have taken 5+ years.

[Raist3d]

well since the Wii gpu from ati has been in development for 5 years, you kinda assume that costs money and research, otherwise they could have just thrown together a cheap gpu, and it wouldn't have taken 5+ years.

What makes you think the Wii gpu has been in development at ATI for 5 years? Remember: why would Nintendo release a Wii in the middle of the gamecube? This doesn't make sense.

- Raist

PS: I am still waiting for you to ask the questions I supposedly didn't answer. See the Far Cry screenshots thread.

[daps83777]

What makes you think the Wii gpu has been in development at ATI for 5 years? Remember: why would Nintendo release a Wii in the middle of the gamecube? This doesn't make sense.

so the ps2 is out, so i guess development for the PS3 hasn't started yet? developing consoles takes time, they don't just decide to start a year before they stop development of the current gen consoles. The gamecube came out on November 18, 2001, don't you think that since that release date they have been planning a new console.

the Wii gpu being developed over the last 5 years, came from an insider, that revealed it in a couple of online articles.

[PSPWAD]

by the way, I am 16 years old, and I know this, so for those 20-30 year old nerds that talking and talking and seeming like their life is important and have enough action in online forums, is your life, well guess what, you dont, you might as well keep grabbing your hotpocket and keep sticking it up your a$$ and jacking off to 8 year old anime girls cuz at least it wont piss off people
Don't limit the flaming to "20-30" year olds, as there are PLENTY of 8-19 year olds that either PRETEND to be old (I guess to look smarter or be more respected) and some that don't lie about their age and flame too.

just damit try to listen to each others and actually get to the bottom of what the article states and means, believe it or not, theres actually people who are interested in ALL the systems, and try to find out which one to buy, would like some help. ect.
Many people have stated before, and many people will continue to state a very important truth in the matter of specs, you can NEVER tell a system's performance by a spec sheet. Honestly the best thing you can do to decide is read PROFESSIONAL reviews from people who have PLAYED the systems, or wait until the systems are released and try them for yourself. You will find good and bad arguments on a forum but when it comes down to it, NONE of us have touched the hardware, so we can't really be 100% sure what to expect.

[daps83777]

Don't limit the flaming to "20-30" year olds, as there are PLENTY of 8-19 year olds that either PRETEND to be old (I guess to look smarter or be more respected) and some that don't lie about their age and flame too.


Many people have stated before, and many people will continue to state a very important truth in the matter of specs, you can NEVER tell a system's performance by a spec sheet. Honestly the best thing you can do to decide is read PROFESSIONAL reviews from people who have PLAYED the systems, or wait until the systems are released and try them for yourself. You will find good and bad arguments on a forum but when it comes down to it, NONE of us have touched the hardware, so we can't really be 100% sure what to expect.

thank you someone sane, specs aren't everything, its about fun. though i do hope the Wii specs are higher than the rumors posted here on maxconsole.

[dreary79]

Who needs a Wii anyway?

I think people should just be happy with what they have and goat tacos.

[Raist3d]

so the ps2 is out, so i guess development for the PS3 hasn't started yet? developing consoles takes time, they don't just decide to start a year before they stop development of the current gen consoles. The gamecube came out on November 18, 2001, don't you think that since that release date they have been planning a new console.

the Wii gpu being developed over the last 5 years, came from an insider, that revealed it in a couple of online articles.

So you believe an insider leak like that because it favors your view, yet fail to believe the one from IGN and this very site that seem quite detail, seem to match, seem to go with Nintendo's OWN CLAIM of 2-3x the power of the game cube (for some reason you keep avoiding this Nintendo fact), and seem to go with all the graphics we are seeing from all the current game screenshots.

How convenient. Must be fun living in fantasy world.

- Raist

[daps83777]

So you believe an insider leak like that because it favors your view, yet fail to believe the one from IGN and this very site that seem quite detail, seem to match, seem to go with Nintendo's OWN CLAIM of 2-3x the power of the game cube (for some reason you keep avoiding this Nintendo fact), and seem to go with all the graphics we are seeing from all the current game screenshots.

How convenient. Must be fun living in fantasy world.

- Raist

yeah, its been like has been talked about earlier in this thread from like page 1. why exactly would an insider leak information to a hacking site? that is what maxconsole is you know.

[dreary79]

So you believe an insider leak like that because it favors your view, yet fail to believe the one from IGN and this very site that seem quite detail, seem to match, seem to go with Nintendo's OWN CLAIM of 2-3x the power of the game cube (for some reason you keep avoiding this Nintendo fact), and seem to go with all the graphics we are seeing from all the current game screenshots.

How convenient. Must be fun living in fantasy world.

- Raist
Are you sure that they match because the IGN article I saw is different in a couple areas?

hmmmm... I wonder why devolpers are leaking different final Wii specs.

[Raist3d]

Are you sure that they match because the IGN article I saw is different in a couple areas?

hmmmm... I wonder why devolpers are leaking different final Wii specs.

The IGN original leaks matches in most of it. I think it's only natural to see some differences considering that was like 8 months ago?

- Raist

[Raist3d]

yeah, its been like has been talked about earlier in this thread from like page 1. why exactly would an insider leak information to a hacking site? that is what maxconsole is you know.

Where exactly has this been talked about "like that since page 1?" You realize that maxconsole being a hacking site may be even more interested in actual information? And also why do you keep ignoring the fact the information matches for the most part with the IGN leak and perhaps most importantly, what Nintendo said on 2x-3x a gamecube? Why do you keep not addressing this fact?

- Raist

[dreary79]

The IGN original leaks matches in most of it. I think it's only natural to see some differences considering that was like 8 months ago?And all the proof of final specs in this topic are also old. So shouldn't just say that some of the information here may be inaccurate since devs are leaking different final specs?

[daps83777]

Where exactly has this been talked about "like that since page 1?" You realize that maxconsole being a hacking site may be even more interested in actual information? And also why do you keep ignoring the fact the information matches for the most part with the IGN leak and perhaps most importantly, what Nintendo said on 2x-3x a gamecube? Why do you keep not addressing this fact?

- Raist

if all the information is exact, and the author of this information wouldn't provide a source, then perhaps he just took the ign specs, now there is a thought.... saying they match doesn't mean anything because no proof was given on the maxconsole article. maybe the other stuff was made up, but it would have been very easy to copy most of the ign specs.

[thePANICHIOteam]

if all the information is exact, and the author of this information wouldn't provide a source, then perhaps he just took the ign specs, now there is a thought.... saying they match doesn't mean anything because no proof was given on the maxconsole article. maybe the other stuff was made up, but it would have been very easy to copy most of the ign specs.
Yes yes its a big conspiracy blah blah blah. Nintendo managed to fit a super computer in a tiny box for under $250, they can also turn turds into gold.

Not long to go now, so you'll soon find out if they can. I doubt Nintendo will actually "release" the specs so to speak, but they wont be able to hide them when its released.

[Raist3d]

if all the information is exact, and the author of this information wouldn't provide a source, then perhaps he just took the ign specs, now there is a thought.... saying they match doesn't mean anything because no proof was given on the maxconsole article. maybe the other stuff was made up, but it would have been very easy to copy most of the ign specs.

Keep in mind that IGN did say they had *several* developers chime in and all for the most part agreed on the important aspects. Also I think it should start to look pretty obvious from what the Wii games are showing this is gamecube 2x as the leaded specs here mentioned. And it all goes with the price, size, engineering heat trade off issues.

Why is it then so farfetched to think this is it, I don't get.

- Raist

[daps83777]

Keep in mind that IGN did say they had *several* developers chime in and all for the most part agreed on the important aspects. Also I think it should start to look pretty obvious from what the Wii games are showing this is gamecube 2x as the leaded specs here mentioned. And it all goes with the price, size, engineering heat trade off issues.

Why is it then so farfetched to think this is it, I don't get.

- Raist

you do realize that if say the Wii comes out at $250 that, that is only $50 less than a 360, and if the Wii comes out at $199 that is only $100 cheaper. yet a Wii can't be half as powerfull as a 360? ok......

i posted this post in another thread, but raist3d never responded to it. though its only about clock speeds, which to most are the only thing that is important, in doesn't neccesarily represent true power in my opinion. its just my opinion if clock speed wise the Wii was 2 or 3 times more powerfull than gamecube.

so how is 2 or 3 times more powerful equal the processor going from 485 MHz on the gamecube to the Wii's processor running at 729MHZ, thats not even close to 2 times more powerfull. hmmm..... go figure, its pretty easy to figure if you do the math. 2 times more powerfull would be 970 Mhz 3 times more powerfull would be 1455 mhz.

the gpu on gamecube was 162 MHz. the supposed leaked specs said the Wii is only running at 243MHZ. twice as powerfull gpu, clock speed wise, would be 324Mhz if it was twice as fast, and 486 Mhz if it was three times as fast.

clock speed wise the Wii should easily be faster in clock speed than the supposed leaked specs.