Editorial: How The Mighty Sony Have Fallen...

[Zeus]

<b>How the Mighty have Fallen</b>
Editor: Chrissy N.

Instant Disappointment with PS3 Showings

Excuse me… but is Sony playing a practical joke on us? They apparently are following the recent revelations at E3… How anyone can look at Sony’s game plan and not be anything but disappointed beyond belief would be a miracle…

Now before anyone starts to scream that I’m a ‘Sony Hater’ or ‘Nintendo Fangirl’ let me preface this article…

I am a gamer, period. I have owned every system ever released in the USA, and some that weren’t. I am absolutely going to buy a PS3… that is a given.

But for the first time since the NES, I am NOT going to get the system on day of release, as I have with every system since, and this truly kills me…

I WANT Sony to make a great system… I want to enjoy their games… but lets look at the facts…

Forget Double Formats, How about Double Standard..

<i>2005</i>

• MS comes out with their Xbox Live Strategy… looks good, has potential…
• MS introduces 2 versions of 360.. Core and Premium.. Core can be fully upgraded, but at extra cost
• Nintendo introduces the Wii Controller… odd looking, but certainly has potential
• Sony introduces PS3… it has an odd Boomerang Controller, negative feedback is immediate
• Sony states that Xbox Live scheme is ‘not viable’ and will stick to their current scheme (i.e. chaos)
• Sony states that MS’s 2 console scheme is ‘confusing to the consumer’
• Shortly after Nintendo introduces the Wii controller and gets praise for innovation, Sony changes their website to state ‘controller design is not final’

<i>2006</i>

• Live and Marketplace are a huge hit. Sony announces a similar scheme
• After chastising MS, Sony comes up with a 2 model release… except their lower priced option is NOT upgradeable to the higher priced one , cutting their console effectively into 2 distinct markets
• Sony reverts to the old PS2 style controller, however it is wireless (like 360) and has motion sensors (like Wii).. oh yeah, and they killed Rumble Capability
• Majority of software shown so far is nothing more then rehashed sequels of older games… MGS4 trailer looks pretty, sure, but you can’t play cinematics…
• $600 Price… let’s be honest no one wants the sub-par unit. Let’s look at past Console releases in that price range… NeoGeo was released at $500 and was niche at best. 3DO was $700, and that console speaks for itself.
• Total dependency on Blu Ray… let’s look at previous Sony formats… Betamax… Minidisc… ATRAC… UMD… seeing a trend?

A change in Market Segmentation ?

Sony will sell the units to their fans. But they are initially going to lose out to the ‘casual’ consumer. With the Wii being released in the area of $200, and the 360 most certainly taking a price dive before the release of the PS3, they are going to lose a lot of the casual buyers and parents buying for their children…

Demand Pull Inflation in Action

On another item, you have the Worldwide simultaneous launch (i.e. all in the same week) Are they insane? Release in ONE area always results in shortages… all 3 simultaneously is retail suicide (and if you think $600 for the unit is crazy, wait till you see what they will be selling for on EBay… considering it will be a WORLDWIDE shortage vs. a Regional shortage, I would not be surprised to see $3000+ prices.

Sony has no choice but to delay the release in US and UK to 2007 in order to keep riots from occurring at the stores. You think the 360 shortage was insane, wait till this thing comes along.. Even though there was a huge demand for an Xbox follow-up, demand for the Sony juggernaught will be 10x that… waiting 4 months for the 360 to be available will seem like a weekend compared to the wait an average consumer will have to be able to walk into a store for a PS3…. Couple that with a new $200 Nintendo with ‘cool controllers’, and a price dropped, readily available 360, and logic dictates that Sony will take a beating, particularly this Christmas Season, and possibly next.

Sony's Monopoly Will Erode

I have no doubt in the end Sony will win this Generation’s war based on fan loyalty alone… but MS and Nintendo will take a HUGE market share away from them. Insane pricing, split format platforms, a copycat attitude and a complete lack of any type of innovation will do nothing but hurt Sony in the long run, especially with the casual buyers. I loved my PSX and PS2, but with this latest round of consoles, I have become seriously disappointed with the direction that Sony is headed…

<i>Sony have lost their way...</i>

But then again, Nintendo did the same thing in the early 90’s, and it got them back to their roots, so maybe it’s not so bad a decision…

[SLAYERPSP]

i hope your right becuse im buying a ps3 only to sell it on ebay to the suckers who will pay 2000 dollars for a system im #4 #5 on the preorder list i work at a gamestore so the people that work there will get them the public is going to be screwed big time the store i work at only got 14 360s at launch so we are thinking will get maybe 6 ps3 in nov if the date doesnt change.just get a 360 or wii save your money

[cory149]

And the even more truly disappointing aspect to this story is:
Many great games for the PS2 were cancelled as the game designers and artists did not want to have to start all over again to release something on PS3.:(

[wiggim]

I agree that sony has lost their innovation. The points you made show that they can design hardware - thats their limit. As for innovation their cell processor coupled with the specs of a super computer is where it stops. Nintendo seems to be taking the kid approach - cheap, simple and fun while Sony and Microsoft are fighting for the most complex, high-powered, most expensive gaming system available.

Not being able to upgrade the system is a joke sony - get off your high horse and listen to your customers. MS figured out that by selling core units they make a hell of a lot more money, as the accessories to update the units total another $220. I favored the PS2 because it had a hell of a lot more titles to be honest, also how it came out a year before everthing else, and is still kicking today. The rest was just filler. With the looks of sonys PS3 sdk kits, the developers are going to have to take a 3 year course to learn how to develop the games, added with being a year behind of the competition they will have a lot of catching up to do.

Their PSP for example has like 5 original games for it that are worth the time to play. The rest are ports or rebadged PS2 games. I think the design of the PSP was almost perfect, it offered a host of features, can be upgraded for new features, planned unison with the PS3 console..

Their PS3 console is disappointing though, and I doubt that the first million batches will make it past 2 months of gamplay without some sort of failure due to complications with the design. They are using the cell processor that has never been released to a consumer-base yet, problems are almost guaranteed to occur. I could be wrong, IBM and sony may have created a masterpiece, but with the recent reports of the yields being very low I just can't phathom what sony is doing.

[Bad Andy]

"MGS4 trailer looks pretty, sure, but you can’t play cinematics…"

They should get thier facts straight, the MGS4 trailer was in real time. No CG. There was even a trailer released where Kojima actually stopped the trailer and started zooming in and out and rotating around.

[Cyphix]

They should get thier facts straight, the MGS4 trailer was in real time. No CG.

Link to some proof?

[Bad Andy]

Link to some proof?

Here:
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/17/kojima-interacts-in-real-time-with-mgs4-trailer-at-tgs/

[FeistyGirl]

They should get thier facts straight, the MGS4 trailer was in real time. No CG. There was even a trailer released where Kojima actually stopped the trailer and started zooming in and out and rotating around.

That's my point exactly...

It may be a realtime cinematic, but it's still a cinematic... you sit there and watch it, you don't play it... moving the camera around hardly qualifies as 'gameplay'

Give me fresh innovative ideas rather then sequels with prettier graphics

[Bad Andy]

And here's a link to the video:
http://dl.qj.net/Metal-Gear-Solid-4-Real-Time-Video-PlayStation-3-Videos-Trailers/pg/12/fid/343/catid/207

[MilkyJoe]

She talks a load of bollucks, a lot of the claims made are simply speculation, just her boring opinion.

Obviously she wants the Nintendo Wii to succeed by playing off this **** card to Sony's new console

Probably wants to use that Wii remote for a few things other than gaming :rolleyes:

[FeistyGirl]

She talks a load of bollucks, a lot of the claims made are simply speculation, just her boring opinion.

Obviously she wants the Nintendo Wii to succeed by playing off this **** card to Sony's new console

Probably wants to use that Wii remote for a few things other than gaming :rolleyes:

Incorrect...

I want all 3 to succeed... competition keeps everyone on their toes... I'm not sure what you consider speculation, but I have been around the industy since the 2600, and have seen what Sony can do... The PSX was nothing short of a revolution moving to 3D when Sprites were the norm... and there is no denying that the PS2 was a killer system with a few innovations itself...

But the PS3 lacks anything other then 'raw power' over the other systems. Back in the Early 90's Nintendo was on top of the world and made quite a few blunders.. and look where it got them... I see Sony heading in that same direction... Hopefully they can get their act together and not do a faceplant.

And regarding your Wii Remote comment... well that pretty much invalidates anything you said before it. Quite immature, has no basis in the discussion, and quite frankly, screams of immaturity....

[MilkyJoe]

Hey, lighten up, I was joking!

I respect your point but Playstation is a household name now, I don't know about the US, but in the UK Sony's console is considered the best, Most people I know (friends and family) have chose not to buy the 360 and wait for the PS3.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the PS3 will be the best selling console out of the three.

[FeistyGirl]

I respect your point but Playstation is a household name now, I don't know about the US, but in the UK Sony's console is considered the best, Most people I know (friends and family) have chose not to buy the 360 and wait for the PS3.

I have no doubt whatsoever that the PS3 will be the best selling console out of the three.

No problem... you forget I'm a redhead... everything you hear about our tempers is true...

I also stated in my article that I have no doubt the PS3 will be the winner this round too... but $600 is going to alienate alot of shoppers... especially with so huge of a price jump over the PS2... Little Johnnie may want a PS3 for Christmas, but when mom walks into the store Christmas shopping and sees a) that it is $600 vs $150 for the PS2, and b) they won't have any till June, then it's clear to see how Sony is pricing themselves out of the casual market. And that is where MS and Nintendo are going to cut into their share of the marketplace till they come down substantially.

And PS2 is household in the US too... but remember.. in the late 80's and early 90's it was 'playing Nintendo'...

And also, as I said, I will certainly buy one, and I am sure I will enjoy the games, but out of all 3 next-gen products, theirs is the most disappointing overall to me, and until I see REAL innovation from Sony, I can't justify dropping $600. If it wee cheaper I would be all over it, but that price point keeps it well out of reach of most consumers. If I am a hardcore gamer and balking at the price, imagine casual gamer response...

[crazygambit]

Your arguments make absolutely no sense. You whine about the price being too steep, that it'll alienate the casuals and the parents, but then you complain there are going to be riots because of the shortages. If there are gonna be such severes shortages who cares if you alienate parents, they're still gonna sell all the ps3 they can make for a long time. After that expect a price cut to attract said customers. I really don't see what the big deal is. Also you said a price cut for the 360 is imminent, care to post a link for confirmation? or is that based solely upon your own assumptions. Why would Microsoft drop their price when they're selling all that they can make also (except in Japan obviously) and will most likely sell out in the holiday season without the need to lower the price. Remember Microsoft this time around is in it to make money, so I wouldn't be so sure about a price drop, much less call it obvious.

[whackawookie]

I don't understand why people think stopping and zooming in the middle of a video makes it real time, hell my dvd player stops and zooms. I have no doubt hideo will succeed in making the game run like that in real time but the debate with that stop and zoom crap has to stop. CG can easily be rendered in 3d and have a camera control. For some reason I have yet to hear many arguements about how the ps3 is going to allow hd playback of blu ray discs on the 20g system considering hdcp isn't possible through component. The next round of speculation is going to be game prices, im guessing 70-80.

[FeistyGirl]

Your arguments make absolutely no sense. You whine about the price being too steep, that it'll alienate the casuals and the parents, but then you complain there are going to be riots because of the shortages. If there are gonna be such severes shortages who cares if you alienate parents, they're still gonna sell all the ps3 they can make for a long time. After that expect a price cut to attract said customers. I really don't see what the big deal is. Also you said a price cut for the 360 is imminent, care to post a link for confirmation? or is that based solely upon your own assumptions. Why would Microsoft drop their price when they're selling all that they can make also (except in Japan obviously) and will most likely sell out in the holiday season without the need to lower the price. Remember Microsoft this time around is in it to make money, so I wouldn't be so sure about a price drop, much less call it obvious.


Fair enough, I'll give my explanations to the above:
You whine about the price being too steep, that it'll alienate the casuals and the parents, but then you complain there are going to be riots because of the shortages.

Simple... the diehard fans will be rushing for the system, and doing a worldwide launch would mean low numbers for EVERY market. Imagine if the number of 360s released were cut to a 3rd.. even if it were just diehards buying it it would still be extrememly short inventory. Couple that with people who are not even gamers who will be after PS3s for no other reason then to 'EBay' them for profit (as the 360 showed there is a HUGE margin to be made this way) and it is easy to see how there are going to be major issues if they launch worldwide simultaniously (which I do not beleive they will)

Also you said a price cut for the 360 is imminent, care to post a link for confirmation? or is that based solely upon your own assumptions.

Yes, this is based soley on my assumptions.. and my assumptions are based on 2 things... past performance and business sense.

Console makers have had a long history of undercutting each others prices at key times in the lifecycle. It would make business sense for MS to make a price cut around the release of the PS3 for several reasons... it would point out the fact that the PS3 is insanely expensive, particularly if they advertise the difference in price vs overall value (remember, at this point the 360 will be far into its 2nd Gen of products, while PS3 will still be 1st gen, so difference in graphics and sound will be negligable at best) and secondly, it puts it more into direct competition with the assumedly lesser priced Wii. MS would make less on the single unit, but more by increased sales... and more units in the wild equals more software sold, where the real cash cow is.

Everything in the article above is completely my opinion.. and I could be completely wrong.... but having been a close observer and gamer for well over 25 years gives me a bit of insight into how the industry works... I've seen these things happen before, and since I have no allegiance whatsoever to any company, feel I can make an informed opinion. I'm a pure gamer. I love the games, not the companies...

[Entomber]

Most who are opposing Fiesty's opinions are Sony fans. I have to agree with her.. the PS3 has no innovation, just basically copy cat ideas. It seems they are merely pushing out a console just because the other two console giants are throwing thiers out there.

If you guys recall... they showed and in game cinematic of FF8 in realtime, paused, rotated and bragged how powerful it is way back on the introduction of the PS2. Have we ever seen a game on the PS2 of that calibur?

Don't believe the hype. I'm no Sony hater and I agree competition is certainly better for us, the consumers. It all boils down to the games, and what is in Sonys corner is it's 3rd party game developers.

[Cyphix]

Here:
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/17/kojima-interacts-in-real-time-with-mgs4-trailer-at-tgs/

Welp, that clears some things up :eek:

[Entomber]

They did the same thing with the cinematics of FF8 on the PS2. Again NOTHING NEW. One thing is a demo, another is a game that actually looks and plays like the demo.

[crazygambit]

Simple... the diehard fans will be rushing for the system, and doing a worldwide launch would mean low numbers for EVERY market. Imagine if the number of 360s released were cut to a 3rd.. even if it were just diehards buying it it would still be extrememly short inventory. Couple that with people who are not even gamers who will be after PS3s for no other reason then to 'EBay' them for profit (as the 360 showed there is a HUGE margin to be made this way) and it is easy to see how there are going to be major issues if they launch worldwide simultaniously (which I do not beleive they will)


I think you missed my point completely, so I'll make it again. I don't doubt for a second there're gonna be riots to get the ps3 this holiday season around the world. Which is exactly why the price DOESN'T matter. You complain the price is going to drive away the casuals, but I say that who cares, they are still gonna sell as much as they can make for al least the first 6 million units. Once the hardcore fans have their machines a simple price cut can make the casuals and the parents interested again. And if you think a price cut by Microsoft this holiday season is a good business move you are sorely mistaken. MS doesn't even need to compete against the ps3, no matter what they do that thing is gonna sell out anyway. And they themselves are just as likely to sell out without the need of a price cut. The 360 is still selling well and with the right games it's sure to sell out at the holidays(the time the ps3 launches). I don't expect a price cut before spring 2007 by either company, but of course that's just IMO.

[The Bat]

I think you missed my point completely, so I'll make it again. I don't doubt for a second there're gonna be riots to get the ps3 this holiday season around the world. Which is exactly why the price DOESN'T matter. You complain the price is going to drive away the casuals, but I say that who cares, they are still gonna sell as much as they can make for al least the first 6 million units. Once the hardcore fans have their machines a simple price cut can make the casuals and the parents interested again. And if you think a price cut by Microsoft this holiday season is a good business move you are sorely mistaken. MS doesn't even need to compete against the ps3, no matter what they do that thing is gonna sell out anyway. And they themselves are just as likely to sell out without the need of a price cut. The 360 is still selling well and with the right games it's sure to sell out at the holidays(the time the ps3 launches). I don't expect a price cut before spring 2007 by either company, but of course that's just IMO.

Sony will lower the price for the PS3 eventually, as dropping prices on consoles over time is standard business. But are you really expecting a $200 price cut for the PS3 any time in the next year? Steep price cuts can be viewed as desperation, and they can also have a tendancy to annoy those who purchased the console shortly before the price cut was announced and made.

Also, I don't have the link on me, but MS had gone on record around December that they plan annual price drops for the 360 console. This generation, they control the IP, so they pay less for manufacturing when the manufacturing costs drop.

Now fast-forward to the biggest shopping season of the year for North America, likely the biggest global market for console sales. The console manufacturers want to get a lot of media attention for their products. No, scratch that, they need it. Nintendo is getting a lot of attention with their brand new console, with a whole lot of new ideas being unveiled. Sure, it doesn't look as impressive, but it's fun, and $150 cheaper to boot. Wait, it's only $70 cheaper? And the cheapest 3 games for the Wii still costs more than 6 popular Platinum titles for the 360? (OK, complete guessing here.) Headlines made, extra sales made. Sure, Microsoft would likely go for that.

And against Sony? Well, even though the PS3 is pricey, and there are fewer games, and there are fewer games that are actually worth playing (much less time on the market generally does that), there will be the occasional times when someone has their name on a pre-order list anyways. But even some of them may decide to check out the competition if the price is right, and a price drop would get more of them doing so.

Why cut in the Spring, when almost nobody is paying attention, and most people who were thinking of buying months ago had already done so?

[The Bat]

There's another factor working against Sony, which wasn't in the editorial, and that's the ease of development.

From what I've read, if you're a developer who can work in Windows, its remarkably easy to develop for the 360. And Microsoft has a reputation of taking pretty good care of its developers. Similar things have been said about the Wii being rather approachable.

The PS3 however, last I heard, is a lot more unique due to the Cell and the DSPs. Getting the code running to a Beta level reportedly takes a fair bit more time and effort, and finetuning it isn't any easier. Now Sony have made improvements with their compiler, and is likely to eventually make other improvements over time. But they're not as fast nor as dedicated to this process, judging by the PS2.

I'm not saying that the PS3 is doomed though. Since they're synonomous with console gaming at the moment, and masters at hype, they just may get the #1 spot again. But I don't see them hitting the 75 million mark as fast, and if HD-DVD ends up winning out over blu-ray (despite Sony's buying spree of movie studios), they'll be at danger of losing their status.

With that said, what drives the console market isn't the hard core gamers. It's the average consumer, who mostly rents and relies on WalMarts and the Discount stores for their gaming fixes. And a couple of major hits being released in time for that might change everything.

[crazygambit]

Why cut in the Spring, when almost nobody is paying attention, and most people who were thinking of buying months ago had already done so?

I never said they were gonna cut the price in spring, I said I expect that to be the earliest a price cut is possible. That's because it's the earliest the 65nm could be implemented. Also MS is bleeding serious money at the current prices so I really don't expect them to lower the price until thay have reduced the costs at least some. Remember this time around MS is in it to make money, they won't pull the same crap they did with the Xbox. One final point most people are forgeting is that the PS2 is selling remarkably well and it's sony's cash cow at the moment. By introducing the ps3 at such high price they secure the life of the ps2 as the main console for at least a year or two. When it starts to lose momentum the prices of the ps3 will drop so it will become mainstream. This is unlike MS who wanted nothing more than to get rid of the money pit that was the original Xbox.

[spikerules]

If that's you, in your Avatar, then you look VERY hot... but that's the only compliment I can give you, I'm afraid:(

Your article smacks of contradiction and misguided faith in Nintendo and Microsoft. MS basically said (in their Press Conf) that they were going make EVERYTHING MS based from mobiles to PC's to Consoles... isn't this kind of play what's getting them in trouble and in constant visits to the courts?

As for Nintendo... their only excuse for poor hardware is the new inovative pad... Sony basically showed them that they could do something similar (not as good. granted) but WITH Blu-Ray, CELL and more advanced hardware. Why didn't Nintendo just release the wand as an add on for the Gamecube? From what I have seen the graphics are identical!

However, I do agree on the price being a problem for some people, BUT I am in no way surprised at the cost! In fact... I had a bet with a m8 that it would be $600 and above. Think about it for a second and you should come to some kind of logical conclusion! Blu-Ray players $1000, PS3 $600 with games, internet functions and a whole lot more! Simple really if you start to think about it a little more, rather than rushing into rash judgements!

And as Nintendo stated according to this site... ''imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

Plus, didn't MS do a Worldwide launch? Thats where some of your contradiction comes into play.

[whackawookie]

maybe my memory's fuzzy because it was a year ago but didn't sony down microsoft for doing a global launch

[The Bat]

I never said they were gonna cut the price in spring, I said I expect that to be the earliest a price cut is possible. That's because it's the earliest the 65nm could be implemented. Also MS is bleeding serious money at the current prices so I really don't expect them to lower the price until thay have reduced the costs at least some. Remember this time around MS is in it to make money, they won't pull the same crap they did with the Xbox. One final point most people are forgeting is that the PS2 is selling remarkably well and it's sony's cash cow at the moment. By introducing the ps3 at such high price they secure the life of the ps2 as the main console for at least a year or two. When it starts to lose momentum the prices of the ps3 will drop so it will become mainstream. This is unlike MS who wanted nothing more than to get rid of the money pit that was the original Xbox.

I guess in my hurry to get the posts caught up by quitting time, I misread your original post. Still MS doesn't need to wait for 65nm chip production to spend less money on 360 production. The investment on the factories has already been spent. They now don't have to use jets to transport the consoles from factories to retailers, and are instead able to ship more at a time at a cheaper price per trip. And the money with consoles comes not from the base unit, but from the games and accessories, both of which are currently fairly high for the 360 (4.5 games and 3.8 accessories per system, IIRC). And existing console owners will keep buying games and accessories.

But that's not the real reason; this winter, there'll be a lot of people thinking of buying a new console, and few will get more than one in this season. If Microsoft can steal tens of thousands of sales from their competitors, that would mean more games and accessories sold as a result. Sure, those buyers for the PS3 and the Wii will be quickly replaced with others. But those tens of thousands will be likely joined by tens of thousands of other people who may not have bought any console, but bought a 360 because of the headlines made by its price drop. And people buying afterwards would know of more people to recommend a console.

Microsoft lost money on their first generation because they kept having to match the price of an older console, whose IP was owned by the console manufacturer (unlike MS with the XBox). Sony kept doing so with the PS2 to get more sales, at Microsoft's expense. Microsoft will likely do the same thing this generation, even if it means losing less money per console sold than Sony.

[attachment]

That's my point exactly...

It may be a realtime cinematic, but it's still a cinematic... you sit there and watch it, you don't play it... moving the camera around hardly qualifies as 'gameplay'

Give me fresh innovative ideas rather then sequels with prettier graphics

But as always, when you play it, it'll be the same quality as the cutscenes. Haven't you played MGS3?

[attachment]

Seriously, whoever wrote that article must be a genius. Sony must not obviously know what's it doing, I mean, it has won the console war for two generations, so it must have not be doing something right. And the arthur of that article is so smart, Sony should just hire him/her so that instead of donig business, he/her can whine all day and that'll magically work.

[whackawookie]

But as always, when you play it, it'll be the same quality as the cutscenes. Haven't you played MGS3?

i don't know what metal game you played but the quality of the CG are far from the gameplay, don't get me wrong though MGS is still a great game, just not that great. I do like though that your going about MGS though and not Final fantasy because FF is bad game for comparison

[GodsMinion]

As much as I vehemently disagree with FiestyGirl (for reason that I can't say ;) ), I do agree with her on having all the systems succeed. I also wish :rolleyes: that there would be only one UBER GOD system that would rule us all....:o unfortunately there isn't. So, we'll have to make do.

[shakoor_h]

I can see why Sony aren't putting memory card slots/wifi in the 20gb PS3, because you can just attach your own memory card reader, and might even be able to attach own wifi dongle. But the reason it is $100 cheaper is because it doesn't have a HDMI slot I think.

Also I can see why they have priced it so high because all blu-ray readers on the market at the moment are like $1000. So if you think about the PS3 that way, you are actually getting a bargain. I'm not saying that I would be willing to pay $600, just that I can see why.

But the winner in this next-gen race seems to be Nintendo, because I am considering getting a PS3 and maybe a Wii. And I think that's what others would probably do too. People will get a Xbox360 and a Wii or PS3 and a Wii. But people are less likely to get Xbox360 and PS3

Also one final thing is the fact that Microsoft have really messed up with the HD-DVD peripheral drive IMHO. Just because you have to buy the console (cheaper than PS3), but you still got to buy an extra peripheral to actually utilise the full experience of Next-Gen gaming. Because it still ends up costing a lot, but in more transactions so it seems less. I know that I personally would be annoyed to have to attach something to my console unless it latched on properly i.e. did not move and therefore was not an annoyance.

[Turbojugend]

I can see why Sony aren't putting memory card slots/wifi in the 20gb PS3, because you can just attach your own memory card reader, and might even be able to attach own wifi dongle. But the reason it is $100 cheaper is because it doesn't have a HDMI slot I think.

Also I can see why they have priced it so high because all blu-ray readers on the market at the moment are like $1000. So if you think about the PS3 that way, you are actually getting a bargain. I'm not saying that I would be willing to pay $600, just that I can see why.

But the winner in this next-gen race seems to be Nintendo, because I am considering getting a PS3 and maybe a Wii. And I think that's what others would probably do too. People will get a Xbox360 and a Wii or PS3 and a Wii. But people are less likely to get Xbox360 and PS3

Also one final thing is the fact that Microsoft have really messed up with the HD-DVD peripheral drive IMHO. Just because you have to buy the console (cheaper than PS3), but you still got to buy an extra peripheral to actually utilise the full experience of Next-Gen gaming. Because it still ends up costing a lot, but in more transactions so it seems less. I know that I personally would be annoyed to have to attach something to my console unless it latched on properly i.e. did not move and therefore was not an annoyance.

I don't think that is correct about the add-on HD-DVD drive. I am pretty sure neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray will be used for gaming anytime soon, just for movies. So you don't need the HD-DVD addon to experience next gen gaming. So you can buy an HD-DVD add on to your xbox360, for highdef movie playback and get a Wii, cheaper than getting a Ps3. :o

[kinglion1982]

Whom ever asked how much the games are gonna cost asked a great question. Although if you have the PS3 your gonna buy the games no matter the cost because you just have to. The only reason I would want a PS3 and for ONE reason only is for GRAN TURISMO!!!!!!!!!!! That is it! When I purchased a PS2 back then I owned one game and one memory card and it was Gran Turismo and Gran Turismo info. M$ just should spend all the money and buy Polyphony Digital and have GT as a 3rd party and Forza (in House):D

[XYZ1]

But then again, Nintendo did the same thing in the early 90’s, and it got them back to their roots, so maybe it’s not so bad a decision…
What do you mean with that? The release of the SNES?
In my opinion the SNES was the greatest console ever.
Having a lot of sequels to great NES games and new games powered with 16Bit was very impressive. Remember all the great games: Super Mario World, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong,...
They also had a very huge market share, I think no system reached that market share again.

[The Bat]

Also I can see why they have priced it so high because all blu-ray readers on the market at the moment are like $1000. So if you think about the PS3 that way, you are actually getting a bargain. I'm not saying that I would be willing to pay $600, just that I can see why.

[SNIPPETY]

Also one final thing is the fact that Microsoft have really messed up with the HD-DVD peripheral drive IMHO. Just because you have to buy the console (cheaper than PS3), but you still got to buy an extra peripheral to actually utilise the full experience of Next-Gen gaming. Because it still ends up costing a lot, but in more transactions so it seems less. I know that I personally would be annoyed to have to attach something to my console unless it latched on properly i.e. did not move and therefore was not an annoyance.

Of course, you are assuming that everybody who is buying one of the newer games consoles wants to also purchase one of the new, untested, might-disappear-from-the-market-in-a-few-years DVD replacement formats. Even assuming that everybody has HDTVs and not CRTs in their homes, many will not opt for either BR nor HD-DVD, simply because the wrong choice will prove to be a waste of money.

That is one of several complaints which many editorials have for Sony. In an effort to push their own new media, they are setting the price of their games console at a level which is too high for some who would otherwise make the purchase. Current DVDs don't rot away within 5-10 years, and do not offer a display which would be noticably inferior on any TV set. The options which could be offered by the newer formats, such as more interactive menues for example, have failed to surface as well for the most part. So the extra $10-$15 per movie would be for a slightly better picture and sound, on some sets, and in many cases you'd need to have them side by side to detect them.

"Next-Gen gaming"? Microsoft already has that on offer through games like Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter and Oblivion, with Too Human, Gears of War, Mass Effect, and others offering it in the future, on a single disk for each game so far. Those who actually want a newer video format will have the option to get it, while those who don't want it won't be stuck with paying for it anyways. It makes more sense than Sony's approach, to me.

[shakoor_h]

I understand that, but eventually games will come out for XBox360 that are on HD-DVD, otherwise its kinda useless for them to release. And when those games come out they will most likely look a lot better than games that are on the standard DVD (simply because more space = higher resolution textures and higher resolution 3D models, even if you don't have HDTV), which will make people buy the HD-DVD add-on.

PS3 already comes with a Blu-ray reader which seems to be better than HD-DVD because it has more space. Also the Getaway developers said that they could only do that game on the PS3 because the Blu-ray discs can be read faster than HD-DVD and allows them to load amazing graphics without needing a load-screen or something(That's what they said on some demo). Bu I'm still pissed about PS3 price, £425 in UK that's like $700 or something

[The Bat]

I understand that, but eventually games will come out for XBox360 that are on HD-DVD, otherwise its kinda useless for them to release. And when those games come out they will most likely look a lot better than games that are on the standard DVD (simply because more space = higher resolution textures and higher resolution 3D models, even if you don't have HDTV), which will make people buy the HD-DVD add-on.

If all of the PS2 and XBox games filled the DVD more completely, with multi-disk games being more common, you might have a point. The few which did had a lot of FMV included for the game, and these new consoles are powerful enough not to rely on such a crutch. Don't believe me? Fine. In a few years time, the PS3 will very likely be pirated (going by the history of other consoles), and I can assure you that games for the most part won't come close to having 25 GB of data. Why do you think most PC games don't even use DVDs, when a DVD drive can be had for less than $20?

PS3 already comes with a Blu-ray reader which seems to be better than HD-DVD because it has more space. Also the Getaway developers said that they could only do that game on the PS3 because the Blu-ray discs can be read faster than HD-DVD and allows them to load amazing graphics without needing a load-screen or something(That's what they said on some demo). Bu I'm still pissed about PS3 price, £425 in UK that's like $700 or something

I seem to remember reading that the cheaper PS3 will have a slower blu-ray drive, one which actually runs slower than the 12x DVD drive in the 360. So will the game be cancelled, or will it come with a warning that it can't be played on the "cheaper" PS3? I'm guessing it'll be neither, with the same game being playable on both forms of the PS3, including the one with the "too slow" optical drive.

And while it's true that you can ultimately squeeze more onto a blu-ray disc, again, check the PC games market. There are already desktop PCs which can outperform the PS3, and the latest home PCs can usually at least match the latest consoles within the first few months, and PC games can install directly to the HDD. So why aren't we seeing PC games which come with over half a dozen DVDs for installing it? Possibly because the lack of even more advanced textures and 3D models isn't based on space, perhaps?

As far as HD-DVD games on the 360 goes, again, the official word from Microsoft is that it won't happen. It would only serve to annoy those who already have the 360 who don't otherwise want nor need the extra drive, while at the same time fracturing the 360 market. And as I stated above, it won't prove to make a difference to gaming anyways.

[aic007]

Bat nailed it,

most games don't come close to filling a DVD unless loaded with CGI. MS will not release HD-DVD games, for reasons stated. By the time the PS3 is released most BD players will have gone down in price some. Sony cant cut the price of the PS3 like a stand alone unit can because it is packed with so much **** in it. DVD players were expensive too at one time, now you can get one for 30 bucks if not less. Ask the average person what BD is any they will have no clue, and will care less. With ondemand movies from cable and satelite people find it easier to just click play on their tv remote without popping in a disc or switching inputs. This is the future of movies, not a new media format. This is why MS was smart and sined a deal with Neflix. In the short future there should be a new blade added to the gui for this, prob around the time they can get a bigger HDD out for a reasonable price, or you can just stream it from your PC. Until then I will enjoy the 14 game attach rate to my 360 and wait for the Wii to come out.