MS suggests Xbox 360 hardware issues will soon be history

[Zeus]

Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg seems to have suggested that hardware issues which have plagued the Xbox 360 will soon be over. The executive commented that they have put the worse behind them and the new repair process is very effective.


I'm on my – gulp – fourth Xbox 360 and I've got friends who have suffered even more. Yes, manufacturing issues – better known as the red ring of death – have plagued the Xbox 360 since launch. But could the worst be over? Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg certainly hopes so. Speaking to Edge, the Xbox exec seemed confident:


We've improved that [repair] process. It's very quick, and they may upgrade your system with the latest technology. So that works really well. What it comes down to is isolating and figuring out the issue, fixing the issue, and the more that we can fix the issue, and know it's fixed, then we're good going forward. We've put the worst behind us on this, but we know there are a few lagging systems, and so we want to take those and make it right.


News Source: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2009/feb/18/xbox-games" target="_blank">Guardian</a>

[thexile]

Sounds exactly like what happen to Vista. :D

[sigma8]

That's incredibly vague. He speaks highly of their repair speeds, though. IMO, if I have to get something repaired, it's already failed as a product. I used Treo's for a couple years and the customer service was great, but I got sick of using phones that broke every year.

[GT-RRR]

Yep, they're actually right about something.

The RRoD WILL go down in History... as the most ridiculous failure rate of any console.

[ThreeDog]

What he means by 'improved repair process' actually means they don't repair anything now. MS repair centers get a 360 case, a liteon drive, a brand new board of the same revision and send your stuff to china since reballing doesn't work.
New beefier heatsinks are applied and the worst gpu series ati ever made continues to be a problem.
This is what happens when a hardware vendor doesn't know what a TDP limit is, from what i can tell they still don't :D and then pitches it to a company that goes for the absolute cheapest hardware design possible, so cheap the chinese factory making them says its too cheap and lacks any quality at all.

Still a 3 year extended warranty is better than a diode dying and the company refusing to honor the warranty or attempting to charge the customer just incase they're dumb enough to fall for it. Not much better mind this should just never happen.

[EssK]

And to think both my Xbox 1's have never had so much as a glitch. Why could MS not invest a little time and care into the 360's production. It's really no use coming out years after release and saying, "right guys, we've got it sorted so we're all cool now?" NO MICROSOFT, we're not cool! You've failed your customer base by releasing sub-standard hardware in the first place.

That said, I do own 3 360's and will still choose MS as my gaming platform over the PS3, not because of any deep hatred for Sony but simply because I prefer their releases and most of my friends use Xbox Live.

Anyway, 2 X-Clamps later and all my 360's are working fine but I feel sorry for all the other people who have had to deal with this massive MS failure time and time again. Maybe the Xbox 720 will be better :rolleyes:

[redferne]

Yep, they're actually right about something.

The RRoD WILL go down in History... as the most ridiculous failure rate of any console.
More ridiculous than the Playstation brand? Beside the PS3, the Playstation brand still have the biggest history of hardware failure.

Edit: Don't get me wrong the failure rate of the 360 is ridiculous but it has only 2 years. Compare it to the other console in a few years and see if it lower or not before naming it the biggest failure rate. Remember, the PS2 is a strong competitor :D

[panyan1991]

IMO, if I have to get something repaired, it's already failed as a product.

i agree completely, that is why in my eyes the 360 failed as soon as rrod became an epidemic

[nattog]

great timing guys, way to fix the problems right after all of the first round xboxs are losing their 3 year warranties. well i still refuse to get another 360 after losing 2 to RRoD and now i have CD drive issues, and guess what? warranty expired for me this month.. i hate you M$:mad:

[mcmanic]

360 will always be known as RROD console,

[c4dm4n]

B%&$ S&^%&... this was a brilliant plan, they have sold 10 million units probably to the same people...:eek:

[yourM0M1]

B%&$ S&^%&... this was a brilliant plan, they have sold 10 million units probably to the same people...:eek:

yes since repairs are free for 3 years

[d889]

meh ive had to send back or buy new computer parts back because they took a dump after getting too warm, my 2006 console red ringed a month a ago and i got a replacement for free so im not complaining, it had a good run.

however it locks up in skate 2 at least once a day so im hoping that this thing isnt shitting out on me already.

[Rockman_Joey]

As I am straight in sexual orientation, I will get a bloke to suck my genitalia if that comes into fruition as a celebration of something I have been fucking demanding from Microsoft for ages.

Looking at the current situation, I can see this event happening in about five years when the Xbox 360's successor is released unless

Microsoft's R+D Department make a slimmer Xbox 360 WHICH WORKS!
I don't have to call Microsoft ever again in regards to getting my Xbox Repaired
My next Xbox 360 lasting more than 2 years.


I am fucking sick of calling their customer support. I called them on Monday because of Three Red Rings and the Elite not being able to read discs.

More ridiculous than the Playstation brand? Beside the PS3, the Playstation brand still have the biggest history of hardware failure.

Edit: Don't get me wrong the failure rate of the 360 is ridiculous but it has only 2 years. Compare it to the other console in a few years and see if it lower or not before naming it the biggest failure rate. Remember, the PS2 is a strong competitor :D

Well, the PS3 was overhyped by the media. The PS3 in my opinion has done me justice. I've been into gaming for nearly 17 years and I can say the Xbox 360 Hardware is the biggest pisstake I have ever seen. I don't like the fact people invest in the hardware and software but only to have hardware problems when they have invested so much in the console. The PS3 failure rate is NOTHING compared to the Xbox 360.

Sony fucked up on the first year but the console has got much better and has improved dramatically so I wouldn't consider the PS3 a failure.

[msanchez]

...
I am fucking sick of calling their customer support. I called them on Monday because of Three Red Rings and the Elite not being able to read discs.


So do they already know you by name and stuff?

MS Rep: "Hey Joey... what happened now?"


Well, the PS3 was overhyped by the media. The PS3 in my opinion has done me justice. I've been into gaming for nearly 17 years and I can say the Xbox 360 Hardware is the biggest pisstake I have ever seen. I don't like the fact people invest in the hardware and software but only to have hardware problems when they have invested so much in the console. The PS3 failure rate is NOTHING compared to the Xbox 360.

Sony fucked up on the first year but the console has got much better and has improved dramatically so I wouldn't consider the PS3 a failure.

I think he's trying to say that the ps brand has had more problems all together than the 360..... I can't say I even knew the ps2 had so many problems, nor the ps1. I have both consoles still and I assume the ps1 still works, and the ps2 I use quite often still. These are my original consoles too, old square ugly psx, and phat ps2.

The way I see it as much problems as the ps brand has had you can't seriously compare the fiasco the 360 has been with either console. Sure you could have gotten screwed when you bought a ps1, or ps2, but with the 360 (except for a few lucky ones) it was a matter of WHEN you were going to be screwed. Sony may not have made the best quality consoles ever, but ms is simply in a different level of crappines with the 360's hardware.

[kcvfr400]

yes since repairs are free for 3 years

So what happened for those consoles bought within the first 18 months before Microsoft recognized and started offering the 3 yr warranty. And as you have been on here a while many have said they got sick of resending off to Microsoft so have bought a new machine especially as new ones run quieter and have hdmi. And banned machines from live access also. Those 3 examples probably add up to millions of extra console sales.

[trev1234]

although they have many returns for 3 red lights 1 red lights etc they still have tons of profits...u must admit xbox 360 live is the best..!!

[haki]

So do they already know you by name and stuff?

MS Rep: "Hey Joey... what happened now?"




I think he's trying to say that the ps brand has had more problems all together than the 360..... I can't say I even knew the ps2 had so many problems, nor the ps1. I have both consoles still and I assume the ps1 still works, and the ps2 I use quite often still. These are my original consoles too, old square ugly psx, and phat ps2.

The way I see it as much problems as the ps brand has had you can't seriously compare the fiasco the 360 has been with either console. Sure you could have gotten screwed when you bought a ps1, or ps2, but with the 360 (except for a few lucky ones) it was a matter of WHEN you were going to be screwed. Sony may not have made the best quality consoles ever, but ms is simply in a different level of crappines with the 360's hardware.

i agree the 360 is bad but the ps2 and the ps1 had horrible DRE's i remember turning my ps1 upside down to make it work ah the good old days lol

[phallius]

We should send all our unwarranted 360's that have died. I've got one. We should send them so they can take it all in, while we litter their facility with junked 360's. It would make a great news story, and they would have to throw it all away.:eek:

[buddha]

The hope dies at last.

[crypysmoker]

RRod repairs are so easy and cheap If I had to go through all the BS that some of you do for a repair I would rather do it myself in 30min.


Unless they get rid of the stupid most ridiculous idea of the X-clamps then all will be fine from there.

Maybe seperate the fans.... so airflow gets taken off both equaly and not just the cpu

[redferne]

I think he's trying to say that the ps brand has had more problems all together than the 360..... I can't say I even knew the ps2 had so many problems, nor the ps1. I have both consoles still and I assume the ps1 still works, and the ps2 I use quite often still. These are my original consoles too, old square ugly psx, and phat ps2.
My 360 is original too, so what's your point? The PS2 had over 16 hardware revision without counting the PStwo which tells how poor the console design was. Just ask around you who had DRE problem, who replace a faulty PS2 you'll be sadly surprised.
The way I see it as much problems as the ps brand has had you can't seriously compare the fiasco the 360 has been with either console. Sure you could have gotten screwed when you bought a ps1, or ps2, but with the 360 (except for a few lucky ones) it was a matter of WHEN you were going to be screwed. Sony may not have made the best quality consoles ever, but ms is simply in a different level of crappines with the 360's hardware.
Actually you can. And having an early 360 doesn't you WILL have a problem, this is stupid fanboy bullshit. It's like saying the PS3 WILL have a laser problem because the PS1&2 had a lot...

The RRoD is now under control get over it, there are many others things for brainless fanboy to argue about.

[DEDDOA]

This is somthign that should have been sorted out a long time ago, and while I suspect this may make some people more confident, the damage to the 360 rep is already done.

As for the PS2/PS1 problems v the 360 problems, from personall experience, the PS2 and PS1 were far less reliable. I know of noone who still had their release PS1 or PS2 by the time the next gen came out, and many were on their 3rd or 4th (had to buy them as well as sony offered no help without paying for it). That said, thats only my experience and doesn't give a real overall picture, just as none of the 3 360 I have had since launch have died due to hardware faults (one died but that was me breaking the power socket, tho that was replaced for free) are not a realistic picture of the faults.

I gues tho given that Sony will never release the faliure rates for the PS1 or 2 (if i recall, part of the settlemen tfor the class action was not to have to release numbers) and MS will never release the number for the 360 (there is speculation and so called "insiders" but I call BS on most if ot all of them), so we will never know.

The fact is tho, at the mo, the 360 problems are a current problem, and the PS1/2 problems are nearly half a decade away for the most part so not a current issue. Due to this the 360 problem reguardless of if it's a larger problem or not, is somthing that people will pay more attention to, not to mention that Sony seem to have finaly got their act together for the PS3.

[msanchez]

i agree the 360 is bad but the ps2 and the ps1 had horrible DRE's i remember turning my ps1 upside down to make it work ah the good old days lol

What would you rather do? turn you console upside down and have it work? or have to send it in for repair because it won't work? (or try doing it yourself)?

My 360 is original too, so what's your point? The PS2 had over 16 hardware revision without counting the PStwo which tells how poor the console design was. Just ask around you who had DRE problem, who replace a faulty PS2 you'll be sadly surprised.

.... ok let me get this straight, you're comparing my almost 10 year old ps2, to your 2 year old 360? and how 'bout I ask who amongst us has had to send multiple 360's in for service? Say I do ask about the ps2, I already know what happened with i; I won't say I wasn't surprised when I saw how wide spread the problem was at first, but I've never had a problem admitting the ps1 and ps2 weren't very faulty consoles in comparison to what had come before them. And just in case, hardware revisions mean that they were actually trying to fix the issues (and save money with more cost effective parts). Would you rather they just say "I don't know what all these ps2 owners are talking about.... faulty ps2s? that can't happen" well maybe you would since that's basically what ms did.

Actually you can. And having an early 360 doesn't you WILL have a problem, this is stupid fanboy bullshit. It's like saying the PS3 WILL have a laser problem because the PS1&2 had a lot...

What kind of comparison is that? I'm not touching previous versions of the xbox, if we would judge the 360 by the original xbox then the 360 would have no hardware issues. The xbox might have not have the best gaming lineup, but that was a well designed/built console.

The RRoD is now under control get over it, there are many others things for brainless fanboy to argue about.

I gotta wonder who the fanboy is here, listen my little friend did I say that the rrod isn't under control? No I didn't right? I'm usually the one to say that it's mostly vanished because that's how I see it, but I guess that's not enough for you is it? I have to proclaim the 360 to be the most awesomenest console in existence, and that MS are the gods on gaming, and their designs are infallible? well sorry reality is different from what you want it to be. Lastly even he doesn't say the issue will be gone he's saying that the repair process will be better, so translation: "THE CONSOLE WILL STILL BREAK, BUT WE'LL TRY TO GET IT TO YOU IN A WORKING FASHION THIS TIME AROUND" maybe now people won't have to send in the same 360 4, 5, 6, 7, etc times.

[ku16610]

What kind of comparison is that? I'm not touching previous versions of the xbox, if we would judge the 360 by the original xbox then the 360 would have no hardware issues. The xbox might have not have the best gaming lineup, but that was a well designed/built console.



the first xbox was also badly designed , if you remember they recalled all the power cables and replaced with breaker switches due to peoples xbox's catching fire in many ways this is much worse than the 360 problems.


(ref http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/19/xbox_recall_nofix/) sorry quick search in google didnt feel like trawling the web)

[wiggim]

Still a 3 year extended warranty is better than a diode dying and the company refusing to honor the warranty or attempting to charge the customer just incase they're dumb enough to fall for it. Not much better mind this should just never happen.

3 year warranty is ONLY for 'catastrophic' hardware failures - or in other words ONLY for 3RLOD. If a diode breaks down after 13 months - too bad, pay the fee for servicing... I have went through 11 consoles to date, there would be NO other product where I would spend 44-60 weeks waiting for a working product, without ANY compensation! NONE! out of the three years I owned the unit, replacing 11 times, means I went 1/3 its life without anything at all!!

[Mastershredder]

3 year warranty is ONLY for 'catastrophic' hardware failures - or in other words ONLY for 3RLOD. If a diode breaks down after 13 months - too bad, pay the fee for servicing... I have went through 11 consoles to date, there would be NO other product where I would spend 44-60 weeks waiting for a working product, without ANY compensation! NONE! out of the three years I owned the unit, replacing 11 times, means I went 1/3 its life without anything at all!!

You honestly don't have a problem replacing a console 11 times? That's insanity...

[redferne]

.... ok let me get this straight, you're comparing my almost 10 year old ps2, to your 2 year old 360? and how 'bout I ask who amongst us has had to send multiple 360's in for service? Say I do ask about the ps2, I already know what happened with i; I won't say I wasn't surprised when I saw how wide spread the problem was at first, but I've never had a problem admitting the ps1 and ps2 weren't very faulty consoles in comparison to what had come before them. And just in case, hardware revisions mean that they were actually trying to fix the issues (and save money with more cost effective parts). Would you rather they just say "I don't know what all these ps2 owners are talking about.... faulty ps2s? that can't happen" well maybe you would since that's basically what ms did.
hey keep cool... Maybe I should compare your 10 years old PS2 to my 3 years who suddenly just stopped to read my games or the one that couldn't read DVD video right out of the box?
I was just reacting to the comment about the biggest failure rate. I'm just saying that maybe we should wait around the same time before making such tastement. Maybe the 360 will never have any other problem for the next decade which is very unlikely I think but hey who knows.

What kind of comparison is that? I'm not touching previous versions of the xbox, if we would judge the 360 by the original xbox then the 360 would have no hardware issues. The xbox might have not have the best gaming lineup, but that was a well designed/built console.
I gotta wonder who the fanboy is here, listen my little friend did I say that the rrod isn't under control? No I didn't right? I'm usually the one to say that it's mostly vanished because that's how I see it, but I guess that's not enough for you is it? I have to proclaim the 360 to be the most awesomenest console in existence, and that MS are the gods on gaming, and their designs are infallible? well sorry reality is different from what you want it to be. Lastly even he doesn't say the issue will be gone he's saying that the repair process will be better, so translation: "THE CONSOLE WILL STILL BREAK, BUT WE'LL TRY TO GET IT TO YOU IN A WORKING FASHION THIS TIME AROUND" maybe now people won't have to send in the same 360 4, 5, 6, 7, etc times.
I'm not your friend even by little so keep your arrogance and irony for others. I don't care what you think. I was just pointing out that having an early 360 doesn't mean IT WILL break. You said:
but with the 360 (except for a few lucky ones) it was a matter of WHEN you were going to be screwed
But maybe I missunderstood what you said. Well in that case it is jsut a missunderstanding.
Oh and the fanboy comment wasn't directed to you but to the brainless idiots that loves to argue about a gaming system. That's just remind me the schoolyard when we argued about wich animal is the strongest... I'm wondering why you felt concerned :confused:.

[EssK]

...I've been into gaming for nearly 17 years and I can say the Xbox 360 Hardware is the biggest pisstake I have ever seen.

Only 17 years, you're still a pup :p

[kcvfr400]

My 360 is original too, so what's your point? The PS2 had over 16 hardware revision without counting the PStwo which tells how poor the console design was. Just ask around you who had DRE problem, who replace a faulty PS2 you'll be sadly surprised.

Actually you can. And having an early 360 doesn't you WILL have a problem, this is stupid fanboy bullshit. It's like saying the PS3 WILL have a laser problem because the PS1&2 had a lot...

The RRoD is now under control get over it, there are many others things for brainless fanboy to argue about.

16 PS2 hard ware revisions was due to reducing cost and combating modchip installation far more than a hardware issue. They had a big batch with dre and got taken to the cleaners in court, rightly so.

Otherwise what you see as large dre issue I would point to modchipping, swap discs and second hand scratched discs more than a build issue. Can't say that for the 360 which although my 2 yr old 360 is still working it does stutter and crash alot and has had only 50hrs max use in that time unlike a 8 yr old ps2 I have that still runs nicely with no issue and has had 1000's of hrs.

[redferne]

16 PS2 hard ware revisions was due to reducing cost and combating modchip installation far more than a hardware issue. They had a big batch with dre and got taken to the cleaners in court, rightly so.
Yes of course all the hardware revision were not only for the DRE problems. Piracy and modding of course but DRE were not the only hardware problem the PS2 had.
Otherwise what you see as large dre issue I would point to modchipping, swap discs and second hand scratched discs more than a build issue. Can't say that for the 360 which although my 2 yr old 360 is still working it does stutter and crash alot and has had only 50hrs max use in that time unlike a 8 yr old ps2 I have that still runs nicely with no issue and has had 1000's of hrs.
That's my point. It is not because there is a history of failure that you WILL have that failure. I think it's time to stop being paranoid...

[sigma8]

although they have many returns for 3 red lights 1 red lights etc they still have tons of profits...u must admit xbox 360 live is the best..!!

Except they don't, actually. If you go by the most recent years, MS Lost $1.9 billion in 2006/07, and made about $400 million in 07/08. Don't forget that they snuck a $1 billion cash writeoff from their 06/07 budget into 07/08 to cover repair expenses.

I'm not completely familiar with the tricksiness they used with this, but that billion$ didn't appear out of their a**es. You should essentially add a billion to their 06/07 profits (thus, 900 million dollar loss) and subtract a billion from their 07/08 profits (so, 600 million dollar loss).. And thus you get a more believable chart on their path to profitability.

edit: here's a link for evidence
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/byauthor/190615

Notice: they basically expensed $1 billion in the 4th quarter to cover "additional costs associated with the warranty extension"... That means future costs. So all that money they are spending today fixing your Xbox is coming out of money that they earmarked for it almost 2 years ago, so that they don't have to report the expense as coming from this year's budget...thus they can appear profitable.

[*StoneCold*]

Yes of course all the hardware revision were not only for the DRE problems. Piracy and modding of course but DRE were not the only hardware problem the PS2 had.

That's my point. It is not because there is a history of failure that you WILL have that failure. I think it's time to stop being paranoid...

I know the PS2 inside and out, and the dre issue was from version 1 - version 4, thats when sony were getting their balls kicked because of that!

The version 5 onwards was fine, you can actually get years and years out of it.

You are saying ''well wait until the 360 is out the same length of time'' well the 360 wont reach the PS2's number of consoles sold, and wont be on sale that for as long either.

Already the 360s failure rate is worse than the PS2s, you can ask anyone about the rrod and they either had it or family/friend had it.

I still have a V7 PS2 chipped all these years without 1 single problem, the PS2 probably has about 5% failure rate, the 360 has around 30% or more.

It wouldnt surprize me if it was well over 50% at the beginning, i aint kidding dude, i dont know a hell of a lot of people with 360s, but anyone i do know has had problems with it, mostly rrod.

The 360s hardware is Pathetic, the PS2's aint.

Its a simple as that.

The both of them can learn how to make reliable hardware from Nintendo, and im taking about RELIABLE hardware, so dont turn that into fucking console features cause that aint what im talking about.

[XaNoR]

Hahahaha, dunno if im supposed to laugh or cry.... Cost effective? No way. A . friend of mine just got his 360 back from repairs. It had RROD and for no obvious reason what so ever they changed the DVD-player to a LiteOn aswell...
So i filled in the survey paper that they wanted us to. Asked them if all the people working @ MS was a big retards as the guy who had done the repairs on the specific console and if you want to modify your console it doesnt matter which DVD-drive they put in. I also wrote that it must be very cost effective to change parts that doesnt need to be changed :D Finally i ended the letter: "Perhaps you should give Sony a call when you design your next console, for at least they now something about security"

[DEDDOA]

I know the PS2 inside and out, and the dre issue was from version 1 - version 4, thats when sony were getting their balls kicked because of that!

The version 5 onwards was fine, you can actually get years and years out of it.

You are saying ''well wait until the 360 is out the same length of time'' well the 360 wont reach the PS2's number of consoles sold, and wont be on sale that for as long either.

Already the 360s failure rate is worse than the PS2s, you can ask anyone about the rrod and they either had it or family/friend had it.

I still have a V7 PS2 chipped all these years without 1 single problem, the PS2 probably has about 5% failure rate, the 360 has around 30% or more.

It wouldnt surprize me if it was well over 50% at the beginning, i aint kidding dude, i dont know a hell of a lot of people with 360s, but anyone i do know has had problems with it, mostly rrod.

The 360s hardware is Pathetic, the PS2's aint.

Its a simple as that.

The both of them can learn how to make reliable hardware from Nintendo, and im taking about RELIABLE hardware, so dont turn that into fucking console features cause that aint what im talking about.

As I have said, from personal experience, virtually everyone I know who had a non slim PS2 has had to have them replaced and some multiple times due to hardware faliure (usually not reading the disk or the drive trays dieing, I am on my 3rd or 4th and that is a v6 model that a mate ended up replacing the laser on for me when it died), same for virtually every every PS1 with the original video conector. I had personally given up on the PS2 and bought an xbox (which still works perfect today) and only got my last PS2 as the missus bought it for me (after the shitty treatment from sony customer service, i had no desire to give them more money to fix a manufacturing fault). So basing it on personal views may not give the most accurate faliure rate especially when noone knows real numbers.

The simple fact tho is that the PS2 faliures were many years ago and the 360 ones are now, puts a different view on things. As the PS2 faliures are not a current issue, many people do not look at them as critcally now, compared to the 360's issues. If the PS3 had a faliure rate the same as the PS2, Ithink then we would have somthing to complain about, and I have no doubt the complaints would be just as bad as they are with the 360

I'd say tho we will never know and it's all speculation as tot he real faliure rates, but if it is as you say 30% of 360's v 5% of PS2's then givent he size of the install bases, that seems a pretty similar number of faliures.

[JonathanD]

More ridiculous than the Playstation brand? Beside the PS3, the Playstation brand still have the biggest history of hardware failure.

Edit: Don't get me wrong the failure rate of the 360 is ridiculous but it has only 2 years. Compare it to the other console in a few years and see if it lower or not before naming it the biggest failure rate. Remember, the PS2 is a strong competitor :D

No the 360 is in a league of its own... even the PS2 though it had some problems was no where near the estimated 16% failure rate...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259

Not only that but your comparing a console at the end of its life to a console thats still new ? If thats the case the 360 already won and the games over lol

[DEDDOA]

No the 360 is in a league of its own... even the PS2 though it had some problems was no where near the estimated 16% failure rate...

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259

Not only that but your comparing a console at the end of its life to a console thats still new ? If thats the case the 360 already won and the games over lol

Sony never released faliure rates, it was part of the class action settelment that they wouldn't have to if i recall, so all the claims that the PS2 was nowhere near as bad is based on theory not fact. Unless sony or MS release real figures all it will ever be is theory.

And as for the comparrison to at different stages, then 5-6% faliure rte on the PS2 would be the same as the claimed 30% by some for the current 360 install base, 3% if the 1up storry is to be believed. The problem is percentages can be misleading, and are often used intentionally so over real numbers.

[sirxlaughs]

I know the PS2 inside and out, and the dre issue was from version 1 - version 4, thats when sony were getting their balls kicked because of that!

The version 5 onwards was fine, you can actually get years and years out of it.

Really? So the PS2 slim didn't have overheating issues, right? What was that? Version 13 or so?


You are saying ''well wait until the 360 is out the same length of time'' well the 360 wont reach the PS2's number of consoles sold, and wont be on sale that for as long either.

Already the 360s failure rate is worse than the PS2s, you can ask anyone about the rrod and they either had it or family/friend had it.

What is the PS2's failure rate? Did Sony release it? Ask yourself why.


I still have a V7 PS2 chipped all these years without 1 single problem, the PS2 probably has about 5% failure rate, the 360 has around 30% or more.

It wouldnt surprize me if it was well over 50% at the beginning, i aint kidding dude, i dont know a hell of a lot of people with 360s, but anyone i do know has had problems with it, mostly rrod.

Since it didn't happen to you, it never happened. The same can be said with people who still have working Xenos and Zephyr 360 models.


The 360s hardware is Pathetic, the PS2's aint.

Its a simple as that.[/quote

The PS2 was horrible. Sony went from the developer friendly and wonderfully simple PS1 to the overly complicated piece of tech PS2. The only reason I think the PS2 was successful was b/c it was riding on the currents of the PS1. Microsoft was still new to the game, and Nintendo's rep was in the pooper. Sony went the same overly complicated path with the PS3, and look what's happening? Developers have been jumping ship.
The 360's hardware is fine. It's the heat dissipation (that stupid wind tunnel) that stinks.

[quote]
The both of them can learn how to make reliable hardware from Nintendo, and im taking about RELIABLE hardware, so dont turn that into fucking console features cause that aint what im talking about.

This, I agree wholeheartedly with. Nintendo, in my eyes, has been the only one that can consistently release dependable, quality hardware.

[JonathanD]

Sony never released faliure rates, it was part of the class action settelment that they wouldn't have to if i recall, so all the claims that the PS2 was nowhere near as bad is based on theory not fact. Unless sony or MS release real figures all it will ever be is theory.

And as for the comparrison to at different stages, then 5-6% faliure rte on the PS2 would be the same as the claimed 30% by some for the current 360 install base, 3% if the 1up storry is to be believed. The problem is percentages can be misleading, and are often used intentionally so over real numbers.

Well some facts then :)

Everyone can agree the PS2 way outsold the 360. So there would be more stories of people on there 3rd or 4th PS2 right ? but you have to take into consideration that when people say "my PS2 died on me" that it could be 3 or 4 years old and after lots of use. 360 has not been out as long so when they say "My 360 died on me" its a fairly new system your talking about.

Failure rates are expected and ALL systems will fail 100% in a given time frame...

Comparing the 2 is just weird... and has no logic to it. I guess if one tried hard enough they could say the 360 has the same failure rate as any console, just don't expect it to last as long as the others...

[Robotron]

They should have been history before the console was released. I hear now that they have changed the motherboard to no longer give the RRoD for most issues. So no RRoD...then no extended warranty....no issues. Great plan MS f#cking the people who pay your salary.

[Rug]

I actually think the failure rate on the 360 is close to 100% (of Zephyr). I don't know anyone one that had one of those without at least one failure.

While I'm not happy with the situation, I'm actually amazed at the good will people have shown toward the situation.

A friend had his 2nd failure on his launch system that was repaired for RROD about 10 months ago. They wanted $100 to "fix" it again. What a scam that is. Luckily Circuit City was going out of business and a new Jasper Arcade was picked up for $140, a new jasper w/3yr warranty.

So let me get this straight... a company knowingly releases a faulty piece of equipment, supposedly repairs the thing (that lasts for about a year) and now wants to charge you for fixing it, again? And we go out and get another one? We must be retarded, or it's that good. This will tick a lot of people off. This maybe the beginning of the next wave of anger.

[msanchez]

the first xbox was also badly designed , if you remember they recalled all the power cables and replaced with breaker switches due to peoples xbox's catching fire in many ways this is much worse than the 360 problems.


(ref http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/19/xbox_recall_nofix/) sorry quick search in google didnt feel like trawling the web)

Oh really? I wasn't aware of that one (didn't own an xbox), but it seems that the issue was promptly and definitely resolved... unlike what's going on now.

hey keep cool... Maybe I should compare your 10 years old PS2 to my 3 years who suddenly just stopped to read my games or the one that couldn't read DVD video right out of the box?
I was just reacting to the comment about the biggest failure rate. I'm just saying that maybe we should wait around the same time before making such tastement. Maybe the 360 will never have any other problem for the next decade which is very unlikely I think but hey who knows.

Wait around 10 years? do you honestly believe that the 360 will be around for that long? don't get me wrong if ms wanted to it could, but neither ms nor current 360 fans (apparently) want the 360 to be alive for that long. The more loyal ms fans seem to want the next xbox out before sony release their newer console no matter what. They'll probably get their wish, but I gotta wonder at what expense.


I'm not your friend even by little so keep your arrogance and irony for others. I don't care what you think.

WHAT?????? I'm crushed.... why would you say that? whatever will I do in this life now that you don't want to be my friend, nor do you care what I think? I don't understand why if you don't care what I think you feel the need to respond to my post? or why you're even posting in a public forum (assuming you don't care what anyone here thinks, though I could be wrong and you simply don't care what I think). Will I cry over a disagreement with anyone here? no, but if I don't care what anyone thinks then I certainly wouldn't be coming on here to post, and if I don't care what a specific individual thinks then I don't bother responding to them (reason why you won't see me responding to a post by any of the more irrational and rabid fans out there), but hey to each his own right?

I was just pointing out that having an early 360 doesn't mean IT WILL break. You said:

But maybe I missunderstood what you said. Well in that case it is jsut a missunderstanding.

Well do I really have to spell it out better than I did??? Just in case I do:


but with the 360 (except for a few lucky ones) it was a matter of WHEN you were going to be screwed

People that have gone through multiple 360s are usually those that weren't part of those lucky few and have been getting refurbed crap one after another; those that were lucky enough to receive a good console are usually on their first console still.

Oh and the fanboy comment wasn't directed to you but to the brainless idiots that loves to argue about a gaming system. That's just remind me the schoolyard when we argued about wich animal is the strongest... I'm wondering why you felt concerned :confused:.

Well if you're responding to MY post in which I'm criticizing your opinion, unless you specify otherwise, I should assume that anything you say is directed at me... or is my reading comprehension that bad? Not to worry though, I've been called fanboy by all sides of this lovely gaming community, so I don't really take it to heart... specially since most of the times it's the consoles zealots calling me that (not directed at you this time).... ironic isn't it?

Anyways that was mostly off topic.

...
The simple fact tho is that the PS2 faliures were many years ago and the 360 ones are now, puts a different view on things. As the PS2 faliures are not a current issue, many people do not look at them as critcally now, compared to the 360's issues. If the PS3 had a faliure rate the same as the PS2, Ithink then we would have somthing to complain about, and I have no doubt the complaints would be just as bad as they are with the 360

I'd say tho we will never know and it's all speculation as tot he real faliure rates, but if it is as you say 30% of 360's v 5% of PS2's then givent he size of the install bases, that seems a pretty similar number of faliures.

I don't exactly agree with that part about it happening many years ago and because of that not being important. I still remember the one problem I had with any of my consoles..... having to blow on my NES carts, it was annoying then, and I still remember vividly uttering a curse word for the first time in front of my mother because my Ninja Gaiden II wouldn't load up.... a smack in the mouth later I learned never to curse in front of her. One thing I do agree with is that net access wasn't as widespread as it is now, so word might have not gotten around as fast as it did this time around.

Still just as you don't know anyone with a pre-slim ps2 who didn't have any problems, I know various people with phat ps2s that are still functioning without any swapped parts. My ps2 actually just got it's first malfunction last weekend; the second controller port is not working now, but I did attempt to install a modchip back in the day... and that didn't go to well.

[sirxlaughs]

Well some facts then :)

Everyone can agree the PS2 way outsold the 360. So there would be more stories of people on there 3rd or 4th PS2 right ? but you have to take into consideration that when people say "my PS2 died on me" that it could be 3 or 4 years old and after lots of use. 360 has not been out as long so when they say "My 360 died on me" its a fairly new system your talking about.

Failure rates are expected and ALL systems will fail 100% in a given time frame...

Comparing the 2 is just weird... and has no logic to it. I guess if one tried hard enough they could say the 360 has the same failure rate as any console, just don't expect it to last as long as the others...

Here are some corrections then.
The first 4 or so revisions of the PS2 (with the DRE issues) were around within the first 3 years of the PS2 being around. So, you don't have to take into consideration that the PS2 sold more in it's lifetime.
Comparing the two is not weird. Failure rates are all speculative since neither Sony nor Microsoft ever released official numbers.

[msanchez]

Here are some corrections then.
The first 4 or so revisions of the PS2 (with the DRE issues) were around within the first 3 years of the PS2 being around...

Are you sure about that? I mean rev 1 and 2 were japan only if I remember correctly, rev 3 were the US launch consoles; I think my brother got a rev 4 - 5 because his ps2 didn't need to install anything on the mem card to get the remote working ( I actually found out like 2 years ago that remotes didn't work on my ps2). Anyways, I don't think my brother bought his console 3 years after launch. Well I could be mistaken as to what rev my brother's ps2 is, but I know it's not a launch console like mine, it could be a rev 4 though.

[sirxlaughs]

Are you sure about that? I mean rev 1 and 2 were japan only if I remember correctly, rev 3 were the US launch consoles; I think my brother got a rev 4 - 5 because his ps2 didn't need to install anything on the mem card to get the remote working ( I actually found out like 2 years ago that remotes didn't work on my ps2). Anyways, I don't think my brother bought his console 3 years after launch. Well I could be mistaken as to what rev my brother's ps2 is, but I know it's not a launch console like mine, it could be a rev 4 though.

Pretty sure, but after some digging, not entirely accurate. The PS2 was released in 2000. The Slimline was released in 2004. The slimline was revision 12, and that's only 4 years in. People also seem to have forgotten about the slimline's power faulty transformers. The PS2 was riddled with problems, but that was then and the 360 is now.
Many people also don't know about the class action suit against Sony for the PS2. Part of the settlement was Sony agreeing to fix DRE related issues until 2005. That's the 5-yr warranty if you had a launch PS2. Talk about having to cover your ass. Since we're on the PS2, I guess I'll mention that I still have my v9 with a DMS3 in it. Works like it did since day one, and outputs 480p.

[GazP]

The RROD will haunt MS until their next console launches. MS should have spent a bit of time testing before they released it. Now they have revision after revision and the failure rate is getting lower, but some are still getting the RROD. I thought the Elite was supposed to be cured but they still RROD.

The only good thing MS have done is give the 3 year warranty otherwise their would have been lawsuits. Great console but badly designed.

[DEDDOA]

The RROD will haunt MS until their next console launches. MS should have spent a bit of time testing before they released it. Now they have revision after revision and the failure rate is getting lower, but some are still getting the RROD. I thought the Elite was supposed to be cured but they still RROD.

The only good thing MS have done is give the 3 year warranty otherwise their would have been lawsuits. Great console but badly designed.

i think that summed things up nicely :)

[snipersnake]

I know the PS2 inside and out, and the dre issue was from version 1 - version 4, thats when sony were getting their balls kicked because of that!



Bro, my V4(gapped) is still kicking ass until now, it was purchased somewhere in 2001 ;)

[sirxlaughs]

Bro, my V4(gapped) is still kicking ass until now, it was purchased somewhere in 2001 ;)

And there are people who still have Zephyr and Xenos model 360's still kicking. That's why the failure rates aren't 100%. It happens.

[photonist]

microsoft got hard hats to design xbox interior. man there is dvdrom on gpu i mean WTF dvdrom is most head producer hardware after gpu and its on gpu gpu solders melts down after so much heat and in new hardware they decreased 90nanometer cpu to 65 nm but gpu is still 90nm
its cheap but it shouldnt be like chinese console it should be stable like in american dream :)

[photonist]

and does anybody knows why they didnt decrease dimensions of gpu? why still 90nm even in falcon cpu series?

[sirxlaughs]

and does anybody knows why they didnt decrease dimensions of gpu? why still 90nm even in falcon cpu series?

There are few manufacturers of chips in the entire world. They have to wait until they can be manufactured before they can buy them. The Falcon had 65nm CPU's, but still had the 90nm GPU. The latest one (Jasper) is 65nm for both.

microsoft got hard hats to design xbox interior. man there is dvdrom on gpu i mean WTF dvdrom is most head producer hardware after gpu and its on gpu gpu solders melts down after so much heat and in new hardware they decreased 90nanometer cpu to 65 nm but gpu is still 90nm
its cheap but it shouldnt be like chinese console it should be stable like in american dream

Was that ever confirmed as being the real reason? I don't understand how solder is going to melt w/o the 360 overheating (2 flashing lights). The warping from repeated heat cycles theory made sense, though.