MS selling old consoles as 'new' - buyers beware

[Zeus]

French website logic-sunrise who is usually pretty clued up on these things indicates that Microsoft's new 199 Euro's Xbox 360 packs with 2 games and 2 wireless controllers are in fact OLD machines. After opening 10 of them, they found that the machines have been converted to new and all have non-falcon motherboards, old Hitachi 47 or Samsung MS25 drives and the repair center sticker on them. They suggest that you do not buy these packs and if you want a brand new machine, then fork out 199 Euro's for the arcade pack or 269 Euro's for the premium pack.

[mmicrosysm]

Wow they should have been clearly marked "Refurbished" tsk tsk Microsoft :(

[panyan1991]

thats below the belt

[bwi]

thats pretty f$%king scummy thing to do and if its true , coud be a PR disaster for MS.


bri

[Claxiux]

Thank you Nintendo and Sony for being the way you are.


:mad::mad::mad:

[DaddyLongLegs]

This is certainly illegal in the US (I seem to recall Packard Bell getting in a lot of trouble over this). Is it illegal there too?

[sirxlaughs]

Can anyone post a link to the original article? I'd like to see it for myself.

[Kr155]

Wow if this is true then that is simply f***ed up. Hope they throw that 3 year warenty in.

[ibitehrd]

I heard the French like sloppy seconds.

[mmicrosysm]

This is certainly illegal in the US (I seem to recall Packard Bell getting in a lot of trouble over this). Is it illegal there too?Yea in the US and Canada when a product such as lets say the Xbox360 is repaired, sent back to the line or returned to factory then sold, it has to be marked "Refurbished, Factory Renewed" or some thing along those lines. This way the consumer knows what he or she is buying is not NEW.

[pugton]

This is certainly illegal in the US (I seem to recall Packard Bell getting in a lot of trouble over this). Is it illegal there too?


I would imagine it will be as our laws in Europe over these kind of things in general do seem to be a lot more strict than the states. Also here in the UK (Probably the whole of Europe too) the purchaser would be covered under some terms set by trading standards of their country for if anything goes wrong with the systems. Microsoft selling refurb machines isnt illegal but them not stating that they are refurbs more than likely is.

[JouDoos]

They should sell these refurbs for $/€ 100 or less a piece.

[BurningLung]

I wonder if MS would actually risk putting more RRoD machines back out in the wild. You would think they wouldn''t want that to be an issue again. I guess if they really thought they fixed them, they might just be this stupid.

EDIT: Either MS is about to be in trouble, or this French website is about to be in deep crap for slander.

[yusky03]

This is exactly why I will NEVER be a M$ or 360 fan. They care about there money more then the customer. This proves they knew about the RRoD but just didn't care or they did not want to spend that much money on testing... piece of crap console... that has a lot of games:mad::p

[JimmyHACK_KH]

2007 holiday bundles were early 07 manufactured units with reslapped on upc's they weren't even close to other new late 07 units.. just moving out old stock (RROD woot)

[put4558350]

As I know xbox360 arcade pack must have hdmi. so it's must used falcon already isn't it ?

Also non falcon isn't mean it's used system.

There is older Xbox360 pack that call "core" pack (it's have xbox360, composite cable and wire controllers that's all) that pack seem un-saleable. it's don't have hdd or memory to save. all of it have old design. it's posible for microsoft to bring them back run a test (and fix it if it dosn't pass) and re-sale in low price.

Well if it's a really old system MS will have to pay more than they think.
But if not. That web might have to pay MS by alot.

[harryisme]

But on the bright side, it's almost gaurenteed you'll be able to hack the dvd firmware without running the risk of getting the Hitachi 79 drive, and if it doesn't work you can just return it claiming it's a refurbished piece of crap and want your money back. :D lol

They have to mark the product 'refurbished', I'm sure the consumer law states you cannot mislead the consumer into thinking they are buying something they are not. M$ could end up with a hefty fine, and even be forced to provide brand new consoles to the consumers.

[yusky03]

Another proof that the people behind Microsoft, the maker of the crappy Xbox 360, are a bunch of lame crooks :(

Do I agree with you.... :confused:

I do think the 360 is crap... the games are good but the console its self is crap >>IMO<<

If the PS3 and the 360 had the same games would you buy a 360 or PS3?

[unwanted]

has to be marked up as a refurb in the UK... mobile phone companies have had to do it for couple of years now...

[NexusBurst]

lmao biggest ripoff ever, don't know how it is over there but here they would be fined.

[mashti]

Yes of course. Because a company the size of Microsoft will be able to get away with selling refurbished consoles as new.

Damn, you're a smart cookie.

http://forums.maxconsole.net/showpost.php?p=939901&postcount=11

well you are wrong as usual but hopefully this news will help put you in your right place brainless cookie. :rolleyes:

[misthero]

Can anyone post a link to the original article? I'd like to see it for myself.

http://www.logic-sunrise.com/news-6827-les-nouveaux-packs-xbox-360-de-demain-neuf-mais-d-occasion.html

this is the original article, but is french, I don't understand it :p

[DoggStyle]

The shitball is rolling. Watch Out!

[mikescool]

just return that ****!

[artik]

Can anyone post a link to the original article? I'd like to see it for myself.

http://www.logic-sunrise.com/news-6827-les-nouveaux-packs-xbox-360-de-demain-neuf-mais-d-occasion.html
oops, misthero still paste it ;)

[Dorron]

OMG!

This has to be illegal. Someone should sue MS and punish'em tough!

[danight]

lol... ps3 fanboys have something new to talk about... finally. Now instead of rrod every thread we can read microsoft sells used consoles. :rolleyes:

If they where smart the would take those m-25 drives and mod them and they could get 5x the price they paid for it. used or not.

[JouDoos]

Another proof that the people behind Microsoft, the maker of the crappy Xbox 360, are a bunch of lame crooks :(

Another proof that you have no life

[syntaxx_error]

You're all wrong !

The new Core System pack "PGR4 + Halo 3" has an "Opus" rev mobo. "Opus" is a "falcon" mobo without hdmi in a Xenon case !

The only thing which is refurbished is the case (old xenon case stock), not the hardware !

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_next_xbox_360_designs_are_opus_and_valhalla.p hp

...The "Opus" project is a "Falcon" generation motherboard designed to fit in a Xenon case. You can expect an 90 nm GPU but a 65 nm CPU. Opus solves a major hardware recycling and inventory problem since Microsoft currently has millions of used Xenon cases from RRODed dead systems and this lets them use most of the good parts from the millions of dead Xenons but with a newer tested more reliable motherboard.

There is no HDMI on Opus since the Xenon cases don't have openings for the port. Opus is a third generation Xbox 360 in the case of a first.

I would trust an Opus Xbox much more than a "zombie repaired" Xenon since you are getting a fresh motherboard. These will probably never be boxed and sold directly to the public in stores so the only way to get an Opus motherboard is to turn in a RRODed dead Xenon in late 2008 and you might get one returned. Opus is the "Zombie Xbox" killer. It's the recycle repair special and is the sort of repair and refurbished Xbox 360 that they should have had done in the first place...

So what says "logic-sunrise" is totaly wrong !

[Slowking]

I would guess that they are using a hole in french law. That would explain why they don't sell this bundle anywhere else in Europe.

[lilskaterpunk]

Wow... Thats just low MS. *Shaking head*

[DrEggman]

You're all wrong !

The new Core System pack "PGR4 + Halo 3" has an "Opus" rev mobo. "Opus" is a "falcon" mobo without hdmi in a Xenon case !

The only thing which is refurbished is the case (old xenon case stock), not the hardware !

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_next_xbox_360_designs_are_opus_and_valhalla.p hp



So what says "logic-sunrise" is totaly wrong !

Explain the refurb stickers they found on the various hardware then, like the DVD drive, etc.

[sirxlaughs]

Thanks for the link guys.
I still don't know about the validity of this report. No pictures, video, or any other evidence other than trusting the report. When I bought my last 360 at Best Buy, there were quite a few Arcade models w/o the HDMI port. I think they were lot 806 and 203 watts.

[sirxlaughs]

Explain the refurb stickers they found on the various hardware then, like the DVD drive, etc.

This is part of why I am saying that they did not really provide any proof.
I can say Bill Gates slept with my dog, but no one will believe me without photos, videos, or some other kind of evidence. I hope people don't run around randomly believing the rantings of an online report.
Is it true? Maybe. Were there really refurb stickers found? Only the poster knows.

[LeGioN1202]

lol... ps3 fanboys have something new to talk about... finally. Now instead of rrod every thread we can read microsoft sells used consoles. :rolleyes:

If they where smart the would take those m-25 drives and mod them and they could get 5x the price they paid for it. used or not.

PS3 fanboys? Your best friend Zeus is the one who posted this. Not "PS3 fanboys".

God you try so damn hard. Also if you cared to look into **** before spewing out nonsense you would know selling refurbs are completely legal as long as it is stated on the box that the contents within are indeed refurbed.

Research goes a long way my friend.

Anyways this is what I got from the comments section in the original article.

""C'est pas une info récup sur le net.
ça s'appelle une experience vécue.
Samedi dernié j'ai vu un pack neuf se faire ouvrir,résultat:
-Pas de HDMI
-Trace de crayon dans la coque
-Sang dans la coque
-Ancien sticker de garantie
Si avec tout ca y veulent nous faire croire que c'est du neuf.""

When translated it says

_no HDMI (normal if old stock)
_pen marks on the casing
_blood inside the casing
_old warranty sticker

[LeGioN1202]

Explain the refurb stickers they found on the various hardware then, like the DVD drive, etc.

From the comment section people claim the sticker is actually the old warranty sticker and not a MS repair center sticker. It is most likely just Zeus trying to start another BS flame war to get hits on this site. Ever wonder why he doesn't post the source?

[wigsplitta]

The French won't even use the word internet because it's not good enough! Europe has strict consumer protection laws and you people think that the French Govt would let this slip by? I call major BULLSHIT! This isn't true at all. Even if the internals are older models doesn't mean that it's factory refurbished! They could easily pull unsold stocks from Japan and other failing markets to sell them in others. Don't be fools

[LeGioN1202]

The French won't even use the word internet because it's not good enough! Europe has strict consumer protection laws and you people think that the French Govt would let this slip by? I call major BULLSHIT! This isn't true at all. Even if the internals are older models doesn't mean that it's factory refurbished! They could easily pull unsold stocks from Japan and other failing markets to sell them in others. Don't be fools

This is what I think it is. The pen markings on the case could be indicators of old stock that was marked long before they thought of selling them off. This explains why it has the old warranty sticker and not a MS repair center sticker as Zeus is claiming.

I really can't trust Zeus worth a **** these days.

[wigsplitta]

PS3 fanboys? Your best friend Zeus is the one who posted this. Not "PS3 fanboys".

God you try so damn hard. Also if you cared to look into **** before spewing out nonsense you would know selling refurbs are completely legal as long as it is stated on the box that the contents within are indeed refurbed.

Research goes a long way my friend.

Anyways this is what I got from the comments section in the original article.

""C'est pas une info récup sur le net.
ça s'appelle une experience vécue.
Samedi dernié j'ai vu un pack neuf se faire ouvrir,résultat:
-Pas de HDMI
-Trace de crayon dans la coque
-Sang dans la coque
-Ancien sticker de garantie
Si avec tout ca y veulent nous faire croire que c'est du neuf.""

When translated it says

_no HDMI (normal if old stock)
_pen marks on the casing
_blood inside the casing
_old warranty sticker

You actually believe that? Yeah I found a dead hamster and a pizza box inside my case. I agree with your above post

[Boco]

The French won't even use the word internet because it's not good enough! Europe has strict consumer protection laws and you people think that the French Govt would let this slip by? I call major BULLSHIT! This isn't true at all. Even if the internals are older models doesn't mean that it's factory refurbished! They could easily pull unsold stocks from Japan and other failing markets to sell them in others. Don't be fools

I agree whit that, I EU there are allot off laws for selling stuff and all, and no way that any company can do as they a saying in the rapport.

[LeGioN1202]

You actually believe that? Yeah I found a dead hamster and a pizza box inside my case. I agree with your above post

I think the blood thing is false personally.

The markings on the case would make sense if old stock was previously marked to avoid being sold along with new stock.

It has the old warranty stick and not the MS repair center sticker which also makes sense that it is old stock and not refurb.

No HDMI, well... that just shows it is old stock.

It points more towards being old stock, although if it is refurbed though it would still be 100% legal as long as it is stated on the box.

These also went on sale starting today so all of these questions will be answered soon enough.

My only question is this.

Microsoft knows the old models were very prone to RRoD, which caused quite a bit of ruckus and brought negativity to their console. Why sell these same consoles if there is a chance there could be an outlash by customers?

Now if MS went in and fixed these consoles to help prevent the RRoD that plagued it before, then indeed they are refurb and would actually have the new warranty sticker as opposed to the old. So I guess I can rule that out and assume these consoles may be RRoD prone.

Very confusing.

Personally, the should have packaged the Arcade model in this bundle. My Falcon model has given me no problems what so ever yet.

[LeGioN1202]

I agree whit that, I EU there are allot off laws for selling stuff and all, and no way that any company can do as they a saying in the rapport.

They most certainly can if the box states it is refurbed. If it not refurb and just older stock, they can certainly sell those as well.

[danight]

God you try so damn hard. Also if you cared to look into **** before spewing out nonsense you would know selling refurbs are completely legal as long as it is stated on the box that the contents within are indeed refurbed.

Did you even read what i said. I didn't argue that they where refurb or old stock or new. I just said this gives ps3 fanboys a new reason to troll threads. Instead of saying rrod every single thread, they can now say microsoft sells used 360s as new. It doesnt matter if its true or not. My point was that ps3 fanboys needed something new to talk about and this is as good as anything.

As far as $$$$$$. Like i said if those things are coming with the sammy m-25 drives. They are easy to mod and they could make a killing selling pre mods. But i know selling refurb is legal. Hell e-bay, gamestop, ebgames etc etc etc all sell refurbs. But money makes the world go around and for the right price people will buy anything. If your strapped on cash and cant afford a new 360 or ps3 or even a wii. Then refurb might be the only option.

To be honest until you blasted me, i was actually gonna give you credit for not being biased in this thread.

[Rotmm]

well you are wrong as usual but hopefully this news will help put you in your right place brainless cookie. :rolleyes:

Cool. So when this story is shown to be the usual bullshit rumours of some uneducated fearmongerer, will you then come back to this thread and admit that it's actually you who is wrong and, I love the phrase, a "brainless cookie"?

I await the moment :)

[LeGioN1202]

Did you even read what i said. I didn't argue that they where refurb or old stock or new. I just said this gives ps3 fanboys a new reason to troll threads. Instead of saying rrod every single thread, they can now say microsoft sells used 360s as new. It doesnt matter if its true or not. My point was that ps3 fanboys needed something new to talk about and this is as good as anything.

As far as $$$$$$. Like i said if those things are coming with the sammy m-25 drives. They are easy to mod and they could make a killing selling pre mods. But i know selling refurb is legal. Hell e-bay, gamestop, ebgames etc etc etc all sell refurbs. But money makes the world go around and for the right price people will buy anything. If your strapped on cash and cant afford a new 360 or ps3 or even a wii. Then refurb might be the only option.

To be honest until you blasted me, i was actually gonna give you credit for not being biased in this thread.


Edit - Disregard what was originally written in this post. I sent you a PM to hopefully explain the situation.

[wpc]

well doesnt matter if is old or new when it gets RROD is going back to M$ is like a cycle:D

[UKR JOKER]

i bought a console from play.com about 2 weeks ago when i came was discovered to be a refurb had an 06 mfr date but had a new cooling system and paper warranty seal on it!!returned it to play.com and was given an excuse that it was a mix up on there part,sent me a new core pack when that came my pal opened it up and was exactly the same mfr date 2006-09-04 but had new componets in it,now trying to sort something with play.com!!

[FoneFreak]

Some people are getting mixed up. These consoles are CLEARLY lableled CORE!! (even the play ones), IF you buy a core then you are buying an OLD machine!!.

Arcade are the new ones as most of us know.

BUT they ARE labeled as CORE CONSOLES!!

[Absorbent Llama]

ive opened up a couple of nonHDMI arcades and been shocked to see they have had MS28s in them so not even arcades are safe in Australia

[wigsplitta]

I think the blood thing is false personally.

The markings on the case would make sense if old stock was previously marked to avoid being sold along with new stock.

It has the old warranty stick and not the MS repair center sticker which also makes sense that it is old stock and not refurb.

No HDMI, well... that just shows it is old stock.

It points more towards being old stock, although if it is refurbed though it would still be 100% legal as long as it is stated on the box.

These also went on sale starting today so all of these questions will be answered soon enough.

My only question is this.

Microsoft knows the old models were very prone to RRoD, which caused quite a bit of ruckus and brought negativity to their console. Why sell these same consoles if there is a chance there could be an outlash by customers?

Now if MS went in and fixed these consoles to help prevent the RRoD that plagued it before, then indeed they are refurb and would actually have the new warranty sticker as opposed to the old. So I guess I can rule that out and assume these consoles may be RRoD prone.

Very confusing.

Personally, the should have packaged the Arcade model in this bundle. My Falcon model has given me no problems what so ever yet.

I wasn't questioning if you believed it really....just everyone else. Worded it wrong.

[LeGioN1202]

I wasn't questioning if you believed it really....just everyone else. Worded it wrong.

I figured that the moment you said "I agree with your above post." :)

BTW, in your gamertag, what game is that with the crystal icon?

[Robotron]

So now I know where all my 360s went that I sent to MS because I never got them back....always someone elses.

[sigma8]

Did you even read what i said. I didn't argue that they where refurb or old stock or new. I just said this gives ps3 fanboys a new reason to troll threads.

Yeah, a whole big event about the Xbox360, and since it's impossible to spin it in a positive way for the 360, and since you can't seriously slander the Xbox on a critical issue, you pick on something else entirely.

Whether or not this is legal, I think it's pretty bad for MS that they have a bunch of refurbed consoles...enough that they really want to try to sell them as new. Generally, when you are sell something, it doesn't come back to you.

[LastinFirstout]

Some people are getting mixed up. These consoles are CLEARLY lableled CORE!! (even the play ones), IF you buy a core then you are buying an OLD machine!!.

Arcade are the new ones as most of us know.

BUT they ARE labeled as CORE CONSOLES!!

call it core or call it arcade it doesn't matter,what ever they put inside the green box should only be NEW hardware.


i can see the poor retailers having more xbox 360 problems to deal with,thanks again to microsoft.

[Yoshiki78]

Ok, i had to register sometime here.. ^^

I can confirm, that M$ is selling old machines as new ones. Here in Sweden it is awfull, i flash 360´s everyday, and i have to say, that i have at least one a day.

I have even told ppl to return machines that they have bought as "new".

And, i´m very confused, that no one have reportet this earlier... :confused:


//Yosh

[UKR JOKER]

Some people are getting mixed up. These consoles are CLEARLY lableled CORE!! (even the play ones), IF you buy a core then you are buying an OLD machine!!.

Arcade are the new ones as most of us know.

BUT they ARE labeled as CORE CONSOLES!!

YES they are labbeld core packs but how do you explain the new style warranty sticker new cooling system and new mother boards?surely with an mfr date from 2006,it should have older parts in them not components released in the last few months!!!!

[Captain N1]

MS Must have Warhouses full of busted 360s

[NexusBurst]

i bought a console from play.com about 2 weeks ago when i came was discovered to be a refurb had an 06 mfr date but had a new cooling system and paper warranty seal on it!!returned it to play.com and was given an excuse that it was a mix up on there part,sent me a new core pack when that came my pal opened it up and was exactly the same mfr date 2006-09-04 but had new componets in it,now trying to sort something with play.com!!

Back on the xbox once ms dumped the price by £200 they had a UK rush. You could tell an xbox version by components and plugs on the motherboards, they did a mishmash of leftover unused parts and so on to get more consoles onto the market and it wasn't unusual to get an MFR way off the date (and a confused modder on the phone)

I don't know if something gave it away as a refurb was the case grubby or really nicely white? Maybe people selling warranty stickers so people can commit fraud has prompted ms to update the stickers without a proper source. Did you open the 360s up? how do you know they had new sinks?
Let us know id like to see more.

[CZroe]

This simply isn't true. Yes, they are old hardware. YES, they have been processed by the repair center. NO, they aren't used, broken, returned, repaired, then sold as new XBOX 360 consoles.

November 30th, 2007, Best Buy sold a nicely priced XBOX 360 bundle including Guitar Hero 2 for dirt cheap (it was their Black Friday promotional bundle). Every last one was an old non-HDMI non-Falcon XBOX 360, despite Halo 3's earlier release with Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, and other Fall console-sellers. Where did they come from? It was later revealed that these units were held back in 2005 and early 2006 when it was first discovered that a massive number of them were failing. They had all been tested extensively at the factory and fitted with the new heatsink that original pre-Zephyr's were getting when they were last being made. These are brand-new XBOX 360s that were pre-screened against 3RLoD.

Wow they should have been clearly marked "Refurbished" tsk tsk Microsoft :(

Jumping to [wrong] conclusions here, aren't we?

This is certainly illegal in the US (I seem to recall Packard Bell getting in a lot of trouble over this). Is it illegal there too?
Since when has it been illegal to sell old stock? These aren't used. Acer got in trouble for putting used floppy drives and such in new PCs, but that's entirely different.

I wonder if MS would actually risk putting more RRoD machines back out in the wild. You would think they wouldn''t want that to be an issue again. I guess if they really thought they fixed them, they might just be this stupid.

EDIT: Either MS is about to be in trouble, or this French website is about to be in deep crap for slander.

These are early manufacturing runs that WERE prone to 3RLoD, but they have been screened and processed with the new HSF. No one said that all of the ones they held back passed this scrutiny. Obviously, it was intensive to have kept them off the market this long.

This is exactly why I will NEVER be a M$ or 360 fan. They care about there money more then the customer. This proves they knew about the RRoD but just didn't care or they did not want to spend that much money on testing... piece of crap console... that has a lot of games:mad::p

In a way, yeah: Holding the flawed stock to investigate proves that they knew there was a problem in 2005/2006 and yet they stopped holding it and started shipping anyway. This held stock contributed to the early shortages that continued for record times (until the Wii). Microsoft should be held accountable for all the ubroken ones traded in as broken and sold for parts before they steped up and admitted that there was a problem; especially when it is so clear that they were aware of it. Many people went ahead and voided warranties and further damaged their consoles all because MS had already told them that they were out of luck and they felt that they had nothing to lose before MS owned up to it. 100% Microsoft's fault.

2007 holiday bundles were early 07 manufactured units with reslapped on upc's they weren't even close to other new late 07 units.. just moving out old stock (RROD woot)

They were not early '07. They had been processed with the additional heatsink improvements so that they LOOKED like pre-Zephyr early 2007 consoles.

But on the bright side, it's almost gaurenteed you'll be able to hack the dvd firmware without running the risk of getting the Hitachi 79 drive, and if it doesn't work you can just return it claiming it's a refurbished piece of crap and want your money back. :D lol

They have to mark the product 'refurbished', I'm sure the consumer law states you cannot mislead the consumer into thinking they are buying something they are not. M$ could end up with a hefty fine, and even be forced to provide brand new consoles to the consumers.

Not necessarily. There is no need to hold parts known to be unrelated to the hardware failures. For instance, these aren't going to come with the silver drive tray cover because they weren't fully assembled and purposed as "core" units back then.

has to be marked up as a refurb in the UK... mobile phone companies have had to do it for couple of years now...

No it doesn't. It's just old unsold stock that was kept off the market for a reason. The problems had to be found, understood, tested for, and worked around. These consoles eventually got an "all clear" and all they needed was a place to sell them.

You're all wrong !

The new Core System pack "PGR4 + Halo 3" has an "Opus" rev mobo. "Opus" is a "falcon" mobo without hdmi in a Xenon case !

The only thing which is refurbished is the case (old xenon case stock), not the hardware !

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_next_xbox_360_designs_are_opus_and_valhalla.p hp



So what says "logic-sunrise" is totaly wrong !

Perhaps *some* do, but the ones in question have been retrofitted with the HSF and bear repair center markings. "Opus" may very well have been created so that they could make an SKU that they could slip these older consoles into without just peppering their HDMI stock with non-HDMI units. They did it with holiday bundles in the US, they do it with "Opus" Arcade bundles in Europe... makes sense.

*snip*Explain the refurb stickers they found on the various hardware then, like the DVD drive, etc.

Durr. They went through a repair center because they were taken out of the factory early and they needed to be fitted with the proper heat-sink.

The French won't even use the word internet because it's not good enough! Europe has strict consumer protection laws and you people think that the French Govt would let this slip by? I call major BULLSHIT! This isn't true at all. Even if the internals are older models doesn't mean that it's factory refurbished! They could easily pull unsold stocks from Japan and other failing markets to sell them in others. Don't be fools

It is major bullshit, but it's just idiots on the Internet jumping to conclusions. YES, these are old consoles, YES they have been in a repair center, but they have never been sold or used.

...My only question is this.

Microsoft knows the old models were very prone to RRoD, which caused quite a bit of ruckus and brought negativity to their console. Why sell these same consoles if there is a chance there could be an outlash by customers?

Now if MS went in and fixed these consoles to help prevent the RRoD that plagued it before, then indeed they are refurb and would actually have the new warranty sticker as opposed to the old. So I guess I can rule that out and assume these consoles may be RRoD prone.

They obviously tested these thoroughly and had to wait until the right time to release the stock (after Halo 3, after the holiday rush, and not with the SKUs that customers expect to have HDMI).

Did you even read what i said. I didn't argue that they where refurb or old stock or new. I just said this gives ps3 fanboys a new reason to troll threads. Instead of saying rrod every single thread, they can now say microsoft sells used 360s as new. It doesnt matter if its true or not. My point was that ps3 fanboys needed something new to talk about and this is as good as anything.

As far as $$$$$$. Like i said if those things are coming with the sammy m-25 drives. They are easy to mod and they could make a killing selling pre mods. But i know selling refurb is legal. Hell e-bay, gamestop, ebgames etc etc etc all sell refurbs. But money makes the world go around and for the right price people will buy anything. If your strapped on cash and cant afford a new 360 or ps3 or even a wii. Then refurb might be the only option.

To be honest until you blasted me, i was actually gonna give you credit for not being biased in this thread.
OK, what makes the M-25 so desireable? No Epoxy? I plan to buy another XBOX 360 when the 65nm GPUs ship, and I may buy two to swap drives.

call it core or call it arcade it doesn't matter,what ever they put inside the green box should only be NEW hardware.


i can see the poor retailers having more xbox 360 problems to deal with,thanks again to microsoft.

It is new.

[wpc]

ROFL.... Xbots are getting fucked in the ass by their beloved M$ yet again. When will they ever learn! ROFL!

http://www.xbotz.justgotowned.com/

all i m gonna say is funny link nothing more;)

[wigsplitta]

I figured that the moment you said "I agree with your above post." :)

BTW, in your gamertag, what game is that with the crystal icon?

That is Devil May Cry I think. I've been playing it here and there but haven't finished it yet. Camera angles keep pissing me off. Oh, the purple Crystal is Eternal Sonata. It's a pretty good game. A sleeper if you ask me. It's a RPG based off of a dream that Chopin had when he was a young kid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Sonata
You should try it if you like RPGs

[SpoonerPSP]

lol... ps3 fanboys have something new to talk about... finally. Now instead of rrod every thread we can read microsoft sells used consoles. :rolleyes:

If they where smart the would take those m-25 drives and mod them and they could get 5x the price they paid for it. used or not.

...but since it's from M$, it's ok with you:rolleyes:

[sirxlaughs]

YES they are labbeld core packs but how do you explain the new style warranty sticker new cooling system and new mother boards?surely with an mfr date from 2006,it should have older parts in them not components released in the last few months!!!!

So, then what exactly are they using that is old?

[sirxlaughs]

This simply isn't true. Yes, they are old hardware. YES, they have been processed by the repair center. NO, they aren't used, broken, returned, repaired, then sold as new XBOX 360 consoles.

November 30th, 2007, Best Buy sold a nicely priced XBOX 360 bundle including Guitar Hero 2 for dirt cheap (it was their Black Friday promotional bundle). Every last one was an old non-HDMI non-Falcon XBOX 360, despite Halo 3's earlier release with Bioshock, Call of Duty 4, and other Fall console-sellers. Where did they come from? It was later revealed that these units were held back in 2005 and early 2006 when it was first discovered that a massive number of them were failing. They had all been tested extensively at the factory and fitted with the new heatsink that original pre-Zephyr's were getting when they were last being made. These are brand-new XBOX 360s that were pre-screened against 3RLoD.



Jumping to [wrong] conclusions here, aren't we?


Since when has it been illegal to sell old stock? These aren't used. Acer got in trouble for putting used floppy drives and such in new PCs, but that's entirely different.



These are early manufacturing runs that WERE prone to 3RLoD, but they have been screened and processed with the new HSF. No one said that all of the ones they held back passed this scrutiny. Obviously, it was intensive to have kept them off the market this long.



In a way, yeah: Holding the flawed stock to investigate proves that they knew there was a problem in 2005/2006 and yet they stopped holding it and started shipping anyway. This held stock contributed to the early shortages that continued for record times (until the Wii). Microsoft should be held accountable for all the ubroken ones traded in as broken and sold for parts before they steped up and admitted that there was a problem; especially when it is so clear that they were aware of it. Many people went ahead and voided warranties and further damaged their consoles all because MS had already told them that they were out of luck and they felt that they had nothing to lose before MS owned up to it. 100% Microsoft's fault.



They were not early '07. They had been processed with the additional heatsink improvements so that they LOOKED like pre-Zephyr early 2007 consoles.



Not necessarily. There is no need to hold parts known to be unrelated to the hardware failures. For instance, these aren't going to come with the silver drive tray cover because they weren't fully assembled and purposed as "core" units back then.



No it doesn't. It's just old unsold stock that was kept off the market for a reason. The problems had to be found, understood, tested for, and worked around. These consoles eventually got an "all clear" and all they needed was a place to sell them.



Perhaps *some* do, but the ones in question have been retrofitted with the HSF and bear repair center markings. "Opus" may very well have been created so that they could make an SKU that they could slip these older consoles into without just peppering their HDMI stock with non-HDMI units. They did it with holiday bundles in the US, they do it with "Opus" Arcade bundles in Europe... makes sense.



Durr. They went through a repair center because they were taken out of the factory early and they needed to be fitted with the proper heat-sink.



It is major bullshit, but it's just idiots on the Internet jumping to conclusions. YES, these are old consoles, YES they have been in a repair center, but they have never been sold or used.



They obviously tested these thoroughly and had to wait until the right time to release the stock (after Halo 3, after the holiday rush, and not with the SKUs that customers expect to have HDMI).


OK, what makes the M-25 so desireable? No Epoxy? I plan to buy another XBOX 360 when the 65nm GPUs ship, and I may buy two to swap drives.



It is new.

The most intelligent post in this thread. I don't even have anything to add. I'm just in awe that there is still hope out there for common sense.

[UKR JOKER]

So, then what exactly are they using that is old?

it's an old core pack manufacutred in 2006 should be old parts inside if made 2 years ago,but it has new parts inside and also the new paper warranty seal,not the old foil 1 that should be on a machine that is 2 years old,these machines are refubed simple as that!!

[arashb]

It is major bullshit, but it's just idiots on the Internet jumping to conclusions. YES, these are old consoles, YES they have been in a repair center, but they have never been sold or used.

First RRoD now 360s breaking as brand new without ever being used? So the failure rate of 360s are like 99%? We just don't see most of it happening? Dude your full of BS. Sure this may not be true but how the hell do you think a console needs to be in a repair center? If it breaks then it's there. If a 360 is never used how does it need to get repaired? Hmmm? I can see this happening from MS, they get so many 360s back and lose so many money off RRoD so they need to make some money back extra.

[snipersnake]

what I am puzzled is, despite knowing that this mobo is RROD prone, why would microsoft still sell it :confused:

[sirxlaughs]

First RRoD now 360s breaking as brand new without ever being used? So the failure rate of 360s are like 99%? We just don't see most of it happening? Dude your full of BS. Sure this may not be true but how the hell do you think a console needs to be in a repair center? If it breaks then it's there. If a 360 is never used how does it need to get repaired? Hmmm? I can see this happening from MS, they get so many 360s back and lose so many money off RRoD so they need to make some money back extra.

If old stock that is known to be defective were to be retrofitted with updated parts, it would need to go through the repair centers. People who think Microsoft "needs" to make extra money fail to realize how big MS is. Console gaming is not MS's only market. They don't have trouble making money. What they are having trouble with is their 360 reputation for hardware failures. It would make sense that they would not want to release old stock to the market without updating it first.


it's an old core pack manufacutred in 2006 should be old parts inside if made 2 years ago,but it has new parts inside and also the new paper warranty seal,not the old foil 1 that should be on a machine that is 2 years old,these machines are refubed simple as that!!

It is not as simple as anything. I asked you what parts are old. You said it had a NEW motherboard, NEW cooling system, etc. How is that refurbished if it's new? Isn't it more likely that it is old stock that has been retrofitted with the latest hardware updates?

[panyan1991]

You're all wrong !

The new Core System pack "PGR4 + Halo 3" has an "Opus" rev mobo. "Opus" is a "falcon" mobo without hdmi in a Xenon case !

The only thing which is refurbished is the case (old xenon case stock), not the hardware !

http://www.8bitjoystick.com/archives/jake_next_xbox_360_designs_are_opus_and_valhalla.p hp



So what says "logic-sunrise" is totaly wrong !

SURELY, it is as expenive to remove the old case, check it and then clean it than to just injection mould some now cases?!:confused:

[Rotmm]

SURELY, it is as expenive to remove the old case, check it and then clean it than to just injection mould some now cases?!:confused:

In this day and age, the cost isn't in the manufacturing of the cases, but in the dumping of the old ones. The levy's companies have to pay to have plastic waste taken away is prohibitive and vastly outweighs the cost of the plastic moulding itself.

Also, most companies have eco-targets to meet, and dumping thousands of plastic cases would likely screw those targets. Don't forget, if they were to dump all the old core machines sitting in storage, they'd have to be dismantled anyway for recycling needs.

[aic007]

That is Devil May Cry I think. I've been playing it here and there but haven't finished it yet. Camera angles keep pissing me off. Oh, the purple Crystal is Eternal Sonata. It's a pretty good game. A sleeper if you ask me. It's a RPG based off of a dream that Chopin had when he was a young kid.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_Sonata
You should try it if you like RPGs

I'll second Sonata, though the fighting does get extremely repetative and to get all the achievements you need a second play through. decent story though and kept me interested through it all, even though I am not a huge RPG fan.

[UKR JOKER]

If old stock that is known to be defective were to be retrofitted with updated parts, it would need to go through the repair centers. People who think Microsoft "needs" to make extra money fail to realize how big MS is. Console gaming is not MS's only market. They don't have trouble making money. What they are having trouble with is their 360 reputation for hardware failures. It would make sense that they would not want to release old stock to the market without updating it first.




It is not as simple as anything. I asked you what parts are old. You said it had a NEW motherboard, NEW cooling system, etc. How is that refurbished if it's new? Isn't it more likely that it is old stock that has been retrofitted with the latest hardware updates?

IT'S REFURBED CAUSE IT HAS NEW MODEL COMPONETS IN AN OLD MACHINE,IF THE MACHINE WAS BRAND NEW IT SHOULD HAVE THE OLDER PARTS AND FOIL WARRANTY SEAL.EVEN MY ELITE BOUGHT IN DECEMBER HAS FOIL WARRANTY STICKER NOT THE NEW PAPER ONES THEY HAVE STARTED USING!!!
SO IF THE MACHINE ISN'T A REFURB HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN NEW NEW PARTS AND NEW STYLE WARRANTY THAT WEREN'T EVEN INVENTED 2 YEARS AGO????

[danihumf]

This is part of why I am saying that they did not really provide any proof.
I can say Bill Gates slept with my dog, but no one will believe me without photos, videos, or some other kind of evidence. I hope people don't run around randomly believing the rantings of an online report.
Is it true? Maybe. Were there really refurb stickers found? Only the poster knows.

yeah but that was proved.

[onandon]

This is unbelievable ...
I hope MS to stand up and clear things up :mad:

[haki]

Do I agree with you.... :confused:

I do think the 360 is crap... the games are good but the console its self is crap >>IMO<<

If the PS3 and the 360 had the same games would you buy a 360 or PS3?

the fact is they dont get over it you fanboy and this is fucked up what MS is doing too

[Le_Zouave]

I bought this pack in France and I got a non HDMI XBOX360 but it's a Falcon motherboard with a Benq DVD drive.
Even if it's a non HDMI console, it was manufactured in March and it was totaly brand new.
But maybe I was lucky as I bought my pack on may 8th (it was supposed to be out on may 12th).

[Rotmm]

I do think the 360 is crap... the games are good but the console its self is crap >>IMO<<

If the PS3 and the 360 had the same games would you buy a 360 or PS3?

That's a difficult question to answer, and it all depends on how you are defining the console as "crap". If your statement is purely on build quality and reliability, then I'd agree with you.

If, however, your "crap" assertion is based on the overall power and design of the Xbox360, then it's far more difficult to agree. What's clear is that, as a games machine, the 360 is by far the best designed, most balanced and most powerful games console out there today.

[sirxlaughs]

IT'S REFURBED CAUSE IT HAS NEW MODEL COMPONETS IN AN OLD MACHINE,IF THE MACHINE WAS BRAND NEW IT SHOULD HAVE THE OLDER PARTS AND FOIL WARRANTY SEAL.EVEN MY ELITE BOUGHT IN DECEMBER HAS FOIL WARRANTY STICKER NOT THE NEW PAPER ONES THEY HAVE STARTED USING!!!
SO IF THE MACHINE ISN'T A REFURB HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN NEW NEW PARTS AND NEW STYLE WARRANTY THAT WEREN'T EVEN INVENTED 2 YEARS AGO????

I explained it by using "retrofit" to describe what MS has done. Refurbishing something is when you take something old and used (this is key here), test it, and replace any broken/defective parts. It has to have been used (again, this is important). It means someone had to have owned it, and clocked some time, other than testing, on it. Retrofitting can be done on new or used items. You just take something of an older model, and replace the old stuff with newer stuff. What I am trying to tell you is what CZroe has already mentioned. Microsoft could have taken NEW, UNUSED, OLD MODEL systems and retrofitted them with the newer designs. That is not a refurb. No one owned it before. It was sealed away somewhere, and never purchased. Do you understand what I am saying now?
You are trying to convince me that your explaination is the definitive one. I am trying to convince you that there are other possibilities. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly.
I already mentioned earlier that I have seen non-HDMI Arcade bundles in retail stores. You just have to lift the hole and look to be sure of what you are purchasing. Check the box for lot #'s and MFG dates. If available, check the power supply wattage rating.

[pCeSlAyEr]

people actually think MS is dumb enough to sell refurbished consoles as new?

lol

[Rockman_Joey]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b339/collum1987/xbox360.jpg#
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

But seriously, thats screwed up and such a fucking cheap way to make sales increase, thats fucking dirty.