MS explain the 'TheGayerGamer' name change issue

[Zeus]

Microsoft’s Stephen Toulouse has explained why the company decided issue a name change request against the gamertag "TheGayerGamer". <i>"We recieved a complaint on the Gamertag and determined that it did indeed contain sexual innuendo. Now granted, there could be an argument that the text is not pejorative to homosexuality and should therefore be allowed. But there is no context to explain that. Gamertags are visible to everyone and it would be hard for me to defend to a parent of a young child who saw it that the name did not contain content of a sexual nature."</i>

<center><img src="http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/xbolg.jpg"></center></a>


Xbox Live policies and Gamertags

I've gotten some questions today regarding a recent name change my team issued against the gamertag "TheGayerGamer". As I have mentioned before, the community brings content that may potentially violate the terms of use to our attention via the complaint system.

For text and profile complaints we actually review every complaint against the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use to determine whether the complaint is accurate. We DO NOT take action based off the number of complaints, or how often people complain in a given day. All complaints we get into the system against a Gamertag or content are reduced to one so that our agents merely review the content against the terms of use. Whether it's one complaint or 20, we will look at it the same way. That's the metric we use and that we have publicly communicated that we use.

And the Terms of Use clearly disallow content of a sexual nature:

"[a member may not] Create a Gamertag or use text in other profile fields that may offend other members. This includes comments that look, sound like, stand for, hint at, abbreviate, or insinuate any of the following: profane words/phrases, sexually explicit language, sexual innuendo, hate speech (including but not limited to racial, ethnic, or religious slurs), illegal drugs/controlled substances, or illegal activities.

Emphasis mine.

We recieved a complaint on the Gamertag and determined that it did indeed contain sexual innuendo. Now granted, there could be an argument that the text is not pejorative to homosexuality and should therefore be allowed. But there is no context to explain that. Gamertags are visible to everyone and it would be hard for me to defend to a parent of a young child who saw it that the name did not contain content of a sexual nature.

We view these situations objectively during our review under the terms of use. To answer the question another way, yes "TheStraighterGamer" or "TheHeterosexualgamer" would have gotten the same treatment and would have been found to be in violation and forced to be changed. We've actually done that to tags like that before.

Racism, hate speech, bigotry, homophobia, all these things have no place on Xbox Live and are in violation of our Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. My team works hard reviewing the complaints every single day and taking action on them where appropriate. We also work very hard to be present in our LIVE community actively playing and looking for bad behavior so we can take action when we see it (for some proof of this you can check the Xbox Forums each morning for people complaining about their suspensions and that they were only 'kidding around'!) The good news is that I have said before complaints as a % of our total users still remains a tiny tiny fraction. But be sure if you see bad behavior to let us know via the complaint system!

I just wanted to provide some transparency into the reasoning we put into the process. Hope that helps!


News Source: <a href="http://www.stepto.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=434" target=_blank">stepto</a>

[poisonousjuice]

I appreciate the reply. Good to know there is actual human interaction when it comes to name bans.

[Trashcat]

Another violation of free speech by M$. If they think that "TheGayerGamer" has a sexual connotation then it's because M$ are gay themselves :(
This is a policy that Ms service has obey it or don't use the service. And freedom of speech doesn't mean you can say anything anywhere, banning you from dog owners forum for posting your naked pictures does not violate freedom of speech because its their good right to decide what kind of content they want to have on their forum, or maybe you should try to mouth off a judge during a trial and see if freedom of speech will protect you, and I guess you never heard of FCC either. For your sake I hope you are not American because that would mean you are too dumb to understand how your own laws and constitution works.

[Happsai]

So now our gamertags need context???

And newsflash, the term "gay" is not sexual regardless of whichever meaning you use; similarly "straight" is not sexual for obvious reasons.

Racism, hate speech, bigotry, homophobia, all these things have no place on Xbox Live and are in violation of our Terms of Use and Code of Conduct. By this logic, the complainer should be banned.

Other innocent names/phrases that must be fished out and banned from Live due to lack of context and are therefore sexual:
I_Like_Fun
Let's_Play
I_Am_Fast
Straight_Up_Fun
Stick_it_to_ya
I'll_Hit_You_hard
LoveYaMom
(anything with the word "it")
(anything with the word "player" or "Playa"
...The list goes on...

[saleem]

one day ms will gets what is coming to them,they want to watch themselves because they will end up being accused of witch hunting and hatred.

there are gamertags on live every minuite of the day,7 days a week that should not be there.yet they blab on about how they this that and the other to endeavor to bla bla bollocks.

someone went on their own vendeta,now ms have to explain cos it created a stir in the gaming community and got so much attention.this is the type of spitefull s**t that people do when they get owned by someone they take a dislike to.a gay guy probably shot someone and got stick for it,when they told the person to get lost they went and cried to ms and got them banned.

the gamertag should not have been there in the first place if its a breach of xboxlive rules and terms.

now why is this happening?

too many spitefull people on psn and live.
:)

[kJeff]

being one of teh ghey, it bugs me that it all boils down to the puritanical American fear of sex. The word gay is a sexual innuendo? umm, ok.

at least I have a new hobby now, I'm going to start reporting every screen name with "420" in it, because drug references are equally evil as the word Gay. What will the awesome 14-year-olds of the world use for their kewl screen names then?

[dalezer]

EXACTLY! MS

Representing yourself publically through your sexuality is totally inappropriate as it exposes inappropriate audiences (children) to such subjects.

This wouldn't even be proper to disscuss publically even in the heterosexual context, I don't go around telling people that I enjoy having sex with women by labeling myself innappropriately

Your sexuality is a private matter, AND THE GENERAL POPULATION DOESN'T CARE!

[put4558350]

Who will using human to monitor that ?

MS just throw regular expressions *gayer* in it's filter list and that's all.
it's ban string even show in uppercase.

[Blazeking]

So now our gamertags need context???

And newsflash, the term "gay" is not sexual regardless of whichever meaning you use; similarly "straight" is not sexual for obvious reasons.
By this logic, the complainer should be banned.

Other innocent names/phrases that must be fished out and banned from Live due to lack of context and are therefore sexual:
I_Like_Fun
Let's_Play
I_Am_Fast
Straight_Up_Fun
Stick_it_to_ya
I'll_Hit_You_hard
LoveYaMom
(anything with the word "it")
(anything with the word "player" or "Playa"
...The list goes on...

Agree. Our society itself is homophobic and programs that **** into you young.
Gayer means HAPPIER. How the **** can you forget your own native language.
What dude declared gay now means "homo"? And really with that twisted logic, the user who reported it should have been banned and charged with a hate crime and/or harassment. Why would the first thought be "OMG, gay people shouldn't be on live and openly express it"? Or you so dense that you think gays don't exist.

This is more than obeying Live's rules, it's about the rules violating civil rights that EVERY American has. I wonder how they plan to handle this potential PR disaster?

[rumsey]

EXACTLY! MS

Representing yourself publically through your sexuality is totally inappropriate as it exposes inappropriate audiences (children) to such subjects.

This wouldn't even be proper to disscuss publically even in the heterosexual context, I don't go around telling people that I enjoy having sex with women by labeling myself innappropriately

Your sexuality is a private matter, AND THE GENERAL POPULATION DOESN'T CARE!

Already agreed.

Blah..
Gayer means HAPPIER. How the **** can you forget your own native language.
What dude declared gay now means "homo"?
blah blah blah

Durr http://www.gaygamer.net/

[pCeSlAyEr]

Agree. Our society itself is homophobic and programs that **** into you young.
Gayer means HAPPIER. How the **** can you forget your own native language.
What dude declared gay now means "homo"? And really with that twisted logic, the user who reported it should have been banned and charged with a hate crime and/or harassment. Why would the first thought be "OMG, gay people shouldn't be on live and openly express it"? Or you so dense that you think gays don't exist.

This is more than obeying Live's rules, it's about the rules violating civil rights that EVERY American has. I wonder how they plan to handle this potential PR disaster?

wait... you cant be serious...

Now honestly tell me the last time you head the word Gay used instead of happy...

in US culture Gay does not mean happy nor does Fag mean cigarette... It doesnt matter if the original word meant nothing sexual, its only what it represents today that matters.

The only reason it was aven addressed is because they had multiple reports about the gamertag.

There is no reason to flaunt your sexual preference to other people outside of trying to draw attention to yourself... and he got what he was looking for.


Also when sigining up to Live you have to agree to adhere to there rules they set in place... so your freedoms using there service are not the same as yours walking down the street. You basicly agree that you do NOT have the freedom to speak and act as you wish while on live.

[Happsai]

I have a friend who openly identifies himself as a black gamer.
Once in a while he'll come across another gamer who says that he hates black people and thinks they should be lynched.
Now honestly, between the two of them, who should be banned? The hater (the racist) or the one causing the hate (my friend)?

Racism, sexism, homophobia... they are all types of hate, and they are all discrimination. What exactly do you want to protect your children from here? Do you want your children to learn to accept or hate people who are different?

[Cue]

I have a friend who openly identifies himself as a black gamer.
Once in a while he'll come across another gamer who says that he hates black people and thinks they should be lynched.
Now honestly, between the two of them, who should be banned? The hater (the racist) or the one causing the hate (my friend)?

Racism, sexism, homophobia... they are all types of hate, and they are all discrimination. What exactly do you want to protect your children from here? Do you want your children to learn to accept or hate people who are different?

Clearly the racist should get more than banned but I don't agree with your friend identifying himself as a black gamer. Racism continues because of idiots and because of it racism has lost its meaning and now seems to refer to the colour of your skin. calling myself a black gamer I find slightly stupid since the colour of your skin is only a characteristic of your body it would be like me saying the 5cm_ear_gamer if only racists knew how stupid they are. they wouldn't dislike somebody if their ears were a different size from theirs. so by your friend calling himself a black gamer he is in a way suggesting "this is what makes me different/similar to you" which only encourages divisions; of course this is an assumption and there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to call himself whatever he likes but I don't agree with what he is doing.

[rumsey]

I have a friend who openly identifies himself as a black gamer.
Once in a while he'll come across another gamer who says that he hates black people and thinks they should be lynched.
Now honestly, between the two of them, who should be banned? The hater (the racist) or the one causing the hate (my friend)?

Racism, sexism, homophobia... they are all types of hate, and they are all discrimination. What exactly do you want to protect your children from here? Do you want your children to learn to accept or hate people who are different?

Okay you seem to be confused, because the things you are trying to correlate are not analogous. The point is that YOU DON'T NEED TO BE ON A SOCIAL NETWORK DESIGNED AS MUCH FOR CHILDREN, AS ADULTS, ADVERTISING YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE. If you bothered to read Microsoft's reply, they said that gamer tags like TheStraightGamer or TheHeteroGamer would, and HAVE, been banned as well.
Obviously there is no problem with saying, "I'm black" in a forum of any age, as even the children might say something as innocent as this. However, if one child in the day care is running around scream "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" or "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!", then obviously this child is going to be put in time out (banned), because sexual preference and discussion do not belong in a playplace for children!

[wpc]

Clearly the racist should get more than banned but I don't agree with your friend identifying himself as a black gamer. Racism continues because of idiots and because of it racism has lost its meaning and now seems to refer to the colour of your skin. calling myself a black gamer I find slightly stupid since the colour of your skin is only a characteristic of your body it would be like me saying the 5cm_ear_gamer if only racists knew how stupid they are. they wouldn't dislike somebody if their ears were a different size from theirs. so by your friend calling himself a black gamer he is in a way suggesting "this is what makes me different/similar to you" which only encourages divisions; of course this is an assumption and there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to call himself whatever he likes but I don't agree with what he is doing.

indeed and the funny thing is those people are the one claiming racism still exists well if u dont try to cause attention saying, "I am proud to be black" I mean who cares about what ur nationalities it doesnt affect who u are as a person

[Cue]

indeed and the funny thing is those people are the one claiming racism still exists well if u dont try to cause attention saying, "I am proud to be black" I mean who cares about what ur nationalities it doesnt affect who u are as a person

The claim is correct, it does exist today, but I agree with the irony that people encourage "racism" while trying to fight it. For example we had a recent thing here where an MP or someone said we need more black teachers as role models for black students. Little do they realise that they are saying racism is ok. You are encouraging people to look up to a man/woman because they have the same skin colour rather than what they have achieved.

[Happsai]

Okay you seem to be confused, because the things you are trying to correlate are not analogous. The point is that YOU DON'T NEED TO BE ON A SOCIAL NETWORK DESIGNED AS MUCH FOR CHILDREN, AS ADULTS, ADVERTISING YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE. If you bothered to read Microsoft's reply, they said that gamer tags like TheStraightGamer or TheHeteroGamer would, and HAVE, been banned as well.
Obviously there is no problem with saying, "I'm black" in a forum of any age, as even the children might say something as innocent as this. However, if one child in the day care is running around scream "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" or "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!", then obviously this child is going to be put in time out (banned), because sexual preference and discussion do not belong in a playplace for children!
I'm afraid that it is you who is diluted. Trying to justify hatred just because the person in question is experiencing a different type of hatred is ridiculous and narrow-minded.
We agree that it is okay to admit to being black--good. Now, why do you present the idea that children screaming "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" or "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!" as being a synonymous scenario to a person admitting to being gay? The problem is that you are equating being gay with sex and perversion and for some reason children. Gay people aren't all about sex and promiscuity, you know. It is a personal characteristic that is not all about the bedroom. A gay person is not necessarily a sexually active person, but given your mindset, I would assume that this makes little sense to you.
Clearly the racist should get more than banned but I don't agree with your friend identifying himself as a black gamer. Racism continues because of idiots and because of it racism has lost its meaning and now seems to refer to the colour of your skin. calling myself a black gamer I find slightly stupid since the colour of your skin is only a characteristic of your body it would be like me saying the 5cm_ear_gamer if only racists knew how stupid they are. they wouldn't dislike somebody if their ears were a different size from theirs. so by your friend calling himself a black gamer he is in a way suggesting "this is what makes me different/similar to you" which only encourages divisions; of course this is an assumption and there is no reason why he shouldn't be able to call himself whatever he likes but I don't agree with what he is doing.
I'm a straight, white male. I'm not ashamed of it. Is there anybody who wants me to feel bad about it, or should I have pretended to not be who I am?

[Cue]

Gay people aren't all about sex, you know. It is a personal characteristic that is not all about the bedroom. A gay person is not necessarily a sexually active person.

While I don't agree with rumsey I also think that your comment is also incorrect. If gay is a word that refers to homosexual then it clearly is about how they have sex. I for example love alot of men, my dad, brothers, close friends but love I define as "I'll do anything for them because they'll do anything for me" however me loving men does not make me gay. If I were to have sex with a man then by definition I'm homosexual and therefore gay. So by going around saying I'm gay you are clearly stating who you have sex with. This is partly why I disagree with single gay people who say its about love since if you are looking for love surely it should not matter which sex they are. Bisexuals I agree with more but I myself do not wrongly associate love with sex and so no reason to have sex with a man.
I could not care less what people do because at the end of the day its their life its ok to disagree with gay people but its stupid to hate somebody because they are gay.

[Happsai]

If I were to have sex with a man then by definition I'm homosexual and therefore gay. So by going around saying I'm gay you are clearly stating who you have sex with.
You don't need to have sex with the same gender to know that you're gay.
I could not care less what people do because at the end of the day its their life its ok to disagree with gay people but its stupid to hate somebody because they are gay.
Of course it is. The point I'm making is that I would rather that hateful people be silenced rather than the people who are not afraid to identify who they are.

[Cue]

I'm a straight, white male. I'm not ashamed of it. Is there anybody who wants me to feel bad about it, or should I have pretended to not be who I am?

I didn't say you should be ashamed of the colour of your skin or your sexuality so do not skew the conversation. I simply in a way asked why do people mention their characteristics and in particular their skin colour if not only to separate or include themselves in a broad Group. You are not white your skin is not white otherwise I would go and see a doctor you saying I'm white you are saying I belong to this group.

[rumsey]

I'm afraid that it is you who is diluted. Trying to justify hatred just because the person in question is experiencing a different type of hatred is ridiculous and narrow-minded.
We agree that it is okay to admit to being black--good. Now, why do you present the idea that children screaming "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" or "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!" as being a synonymous scenario to a person admitting to being gay? The problem is that you are equating being gay with sex and perversion and for some reason children. Gay people aren't all about sex and promiscuity, you know. It is a personal characteristic that is not all about the bedroom. A gay person is not necessarily a sexually active person, but given your mindset, I would assume that this makes little sense to you.

I'm a straight, white male. I'm not ashamed of it. Is there anybody who wants me to feel bad about it, or should I have pretended to not be who I am?
edit: angry response, I'll write my thoughts later.

[Happsai]

I didn't say you should be ashamed of the colour of your skin or your sexuality so do not skew the conversation. I simply in a way asked why do people mention their characteristics and in particular their skin colour if not only to separate or include themselves in a broad Group. You are not white your skin is not white otherwise I would go and see a doctor you saying I'm white you are saying I belong to this group.
Fair enough. My friend has no intention of his name encouraging divisiveness; he just thought it was catchy, and he's black, so why the heck not. You raise a good arguement, and I have no illusions of diversity coming out of gametag names. I simply believe that if people are comfortable with announcing who they are and no harm comes of it, then who's to say it's wrong?

Btw, my skin may not be white, but I am quite pale. I was born what is called a "yellow baby". The logic in that name is beyond me.:cool:

[Cue]

Boo Hoo. Dipshit, I'll be back.
We'd rather you weren't.

[Happsai]

Jesus Christ, Happsai, you fail fucking miserably at logic. Its a bit busy at work but watch this spot because I'll be editing it shortly trying to educate you on why you're a moron and missing the point. No one is hating on gay people. Someones mom saw the word GayGamer and was offended by it, because 8 year old Tommy wanted it explained to him. Boo Hoo. Dipshit, I'll be back.
Don't bother. I'm on my way out of the office myself now, and I really don't care to learn the logic of homosexuality being compared to children screaming for sex. Frankly, I dread what you have to say.
It's funny how some parents want to hide their children from reality rather than explain it. Is it really that hard to be a parent nowadays that we can't just talk to our kids?
Anyway, I'm out, but I suggest you simply think about who was really victimized in this ordeal.

[rumsey]

We'd rather you weren't.

Aww, well you get prepared to Boo Hoo too, then.

[Cue]

Aww, well you get prepared to Boo Hoo too, then.

OOOOOKKKKKKK :confused:

[faceless]

why are people making this about homophobia when the MS guy clearly says they would do the same thing for "TheStraighterGamer" or "TheHeterosexualgamer" ?!

[Cue]

why are people making this about homophobia when the MS guy clearly says they would do the same thing for "TheStraighterGamer" or "TheHeterosexualgamer" ?!

Not many people here did only a select few.

And heres an old saying for one of them to digest

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something.
-Plato

[rumsey]

Lets begin. For starter's your post really pissed me off. Somehow you managed to miss my entire point, accuse me of hate crimes, showed an inability to relate to a context of a analogy, or properly form one, displayed poor reading comprehension, and took all my separate and (in my opinion) clearly explained ideas and threw them in to a melting pot of unrelated confusing bullshit. So try and be emphatic to my anger, because in your following post you were either wrong on each count, or misconstruing my original response, hopefully unintentionally.

I'm afraid that it is you who is diluted.
Don't be "afraid", there's nothing to fear. Also I'm not sure how diluted could be used in any way as an adjective here, or why you prefaced with "it is you", as if to imply that I had leveled the charge of dilution first... absurd.
Trying to justify hatred just because the person in question is experiencing a different type of hatred is ridiculous and narrow-minded.
No. It is ridiculous and absurd to suggest that I promote or attempt to justify hatred. It's also rude to suggest so, and misleading as to my character. (but what part of your post isn't? it's practically libel)
We agree that it is okay to admit to being black--good. Now, why do you present the idea that children screaming "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" or "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!" as being a synonymous scenario to a person admitting to being gay?
Now this is a reasonably and good question. If you tried harder to see my points as opposed to trying harder to misconstrue them, I think you'd find the correlation. First off, however, its not synonymous with being gay, but rather synonymous with publicly broadcast your sexual preference. So, ask your question again:
why do you present the idea that children(people, anyone in the daycare would suffice in my scenario, don't latch on the word children) screaming... "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!" as being a synonymous scenario to "a person publicly proclaiming their sexual preference"?
Ahh, so here we are. Now, reread your question again, now that I've made corrections to the misapplication of my analogy and the willful twisting of my words and ideas. As a matter of fact, read the question a 3rd time now and tell me if you can start to see the relation between the two things. Yes? No? Maybe so? Still unable to see how they're synonymous?
The problem is that you are equating being gay with sex and perversion and for some reason children.
No, no, no... and no. I am absolutely not relating "being gay" with "children", in any sort of way outside the OBVIOUS one, which is in relation to the matter at hand - a discussion about a gay reference on a service designed to be used by children. Also I'm absolutely not relating it to perversion... if you sensed perversion in any of the things I said, that was because something offended your own sensibilities. The only part of your sentence you got right was "you are equating being gay with sex". Well, you almost got it right anyway. I am equating PROCLAIMING your sexual preference, to be sexual and as such not necessarily appropriate for discussion with children.
Gay people aren't all about sex and promiscuity, you know. It is a personal characteristic that is not all about the bedroom. A gay person is not necessarily a sexually active person, but given your mindset, I would assume that this makes little sense to you.
Given that you misconstrue and misunderstand everything I say, I'm sure how well I can relate to all this to make little sense to you. My roommate is a lesbian. I have nothing against gays. I don't remember making any sort of comment that would make you believe that I think gay people are overly promiscuous. That sounds like some belief about me you made up on your own. Again.
I'm a straight, white male. I'm not ashamed of it. Is there anybody who wants me to feel bad about it, or should I have pretended to not be who I am?
Of course no one wants you to feel bad about it, OR be ashamed. However... If you walk in to my child's 3rd grade class and said, "I'm a straight white male, and not ashamed of it then I would have a problem. Why? Because this is a confusing thing to say in front of a group of kids, they don't know what that statement means as a whole. Now little Johnny is going to say "What does "i'm straight" mean, and why would he be ashamed?". Do you think thats something a teacher should have to explain because you were being inappropriate? Regardless of whether you think children can handle it, or that its a parents responsibility to start teaching a child about sex, anal, blow jobs, and a dirty sanchez as early as age 5... thats not your decision buddy. That is a choice for the parent's to make at the time they choose, and its not for you to start invading the physical playgrounds of children talking about, or their digital playgrounds.

Microsoft did the right thing here, Xbox Live is a digital playground for children and adults to have fun and enjoy together, and parent's shouldn't have to be worried about all the inappropriate sexual and drug innuendo we see so much of in Gamertags, and the more MS does to handle the issue, the better.


why are people making this about homophobia when the MS guy clearly says they would do the same thing for "TheStraighterGamer" or "TheHeterosexualgamer" ?!
Exactly! This! These people think that applying appropriate filters for children is the same thing as homophobia or being a racist, or just plain "hater". They're thought process must be pretty simple...

EDIT:
In before the "ITS THE PARENTS RESPONSIBILITY".
I just want to add, that although I think parent's shouldn't have to worry about this kinda **** on Xbox Live, they do. Constantly. In fact, if a parent doesn't want their child subjected to hundreds of gay references, and much, much, much worse... then they shouldn't let them on Live at all. That's just how it is, HOWEVER that doesn't mean that Microsoft should not continue to do everything in their power to make their service a safe place for people of all ages, especially since that is who they are targeting.

[NewBeginning]

Don't bother. I'm on my way out of the office myself now, and I really don't care to learn the logic of homosexuality being compared to children screaming for sex. Frankly, I dread what you have to say.
It's funny how some parents want to hide their children from reality rather than explain it. Is it really that hard to be a parent nowadays that we can't just talk to our kids?
Anyway, I'm out, but I suggest you simply think about who was really victimized in this ordeal.

Stop posting.

[Cue]

I'm still waiting for MY Boo Hoo, what is it? :p

I certainly hope that the time you said you are at the office and going home wasn't the time you started writing that lengthy post.

I think that Happsai took it to heart already (a sign of wisdom) so your post I think may simply be a prime example of Platos quote above.

Now while I see no need to argue on behalf of Happsai I do see a lot of things that concern me in your posts (although I don't now what they where now since you've edited almost every post you've made).

one thing that concerned me is best described by this quote from Woody Alan:
"If you can't answer a mans argument, all is not lost; you can still call him veil names."

another is here is somebody complaining about inappropriate conduct in a place which is NOT a playground for children. Now that tells me alot about your parenting skills Live is for everyone young and old alike. So it is as much a playground as the streets are. I do not go around telling people to stop smoking, stop drinking etc just because my child is there. I would simply tell my child "those two things trick the mind into wanting more and they are both very bad for your health" simple, problem solved and the child has learnt something. In all honest I would not let my kid on Live unsupervised at all and at least you mentioned that after the third edit of your post. even if I were there to supervise I would read her/him a book instead.
So while I agree that I don't think the user should have put that name I also don't agree with Microsoft banning the name just because somebody complained. Your against inappropriate conduct right but that's rich coming from somebody who has used the words dipshit and pissed on a public forum.
you do realise that kids use these forums as well. now I need to teach my kid what they mean. I already have enough to worry about as a parent you know.
Admins, mods a ban please. :p

[rumsey]

I'm still waiting for MY Boo Hoo, what is it? :p

I certainly hope that the time you said you are at the office and going home wasn't the time you started writing that lengthy post.

I think that Happsai took it to heart already (a sign of wisdom) so your post I think may simply be a prime example of Platos quote above.

Now while I see no need to argue on behalf of Happsai I do see a lot of things that concern me in your posts (although I don't now what they where now since you've edited almost every post you've made).

one thing that concerned me is best described by this quote from Woody Alan:
"If you can't answer a mans argument, all is not lost; you can still call him veil names."

another is here is somebody complaining about inappropriate conduct in a place which is NOT a playground for children. Now that tells me alot about your parenting skills Live is for everyone young and old alike. So it is as much a playground as the streets are. I do not go around telling people to stop smoking, stop drinking etc just because my child is there. I would simply tell my child "those two things trick the mind into wanting more and they are both very bad for your health" simple, problem solved and the child has learnt something. In all honest I would not let my kid on Live unsupervised at all and at least you mentioned that after the third edit of your post. even if I were there to supervise I would read her/him a book instead.
So while I agree that I don't think the user should have put that name I also don't agree with Microsoft banning the name just because somebody complained. Your against inappropriate conduct right but that's rich coming from somebody who has used the words dipshit and pissed on a public forum.
you do realise that kids use these forums as well. now I need to teach my kid what they mean. I already have enough to worry about as a parent you know.
Admins, mods a ban please. :p

Idiot on every count. If you one tenth the intelligence of Happsai your concerns might be worth addressing, but as it stands - they're all in your head. I don't know why you've got nothing better to do but make up reasons for yourself to hate me, but if you want to start hating me, you can take your place at the back of the line.

[Happsai]

I'm still waiting for MY Boo Hoo, what is it? :p

I certainly hope that the time you said you are at the office and going home wasn't the time you started writing that lengthy post.

I think that Happsai took it to heart already (a sign of wisdom) so your post I think may simply be a prime example of Platos quote above.

Now while I see no need to argue on behalf of Happsai I do see a lot of things that concern me in your posts (although I don't now what they where now since you've edited almost every post you've made).

one thing that concerned me is best described by this quote from Woody Alan:
"If you can't answer a mans argument, all is not lost; you can still call him veil names."

another is here is somebody complaining about inappropriate conduct in a place which is NOT a playground for children. Now that tells me alot about your parenting skills Live is for everyone young and old alike. So it is as much a playground as the streets are. I do not go around telling people to stop smoking, stop drinking etc just because my child is there. I would simply tell my child "those two things trick the mind into wanting more and they are both very bad for your health" simple, problem solved and the child has learnt something. In all honest I would not let my kid on Live unsupervised at all and at least you mentioned that after the third edit of your post. even if I were there to supervise I would read her/him a book instead.
So while I agree that I don't think the user should have put that name I also don't agree with Microsoft banning the name just because somebody complained. Your against inappropriate conduct right but that's rich coming from somebody who has used the words dipshit and pissed on a public forum.
you do realise that kids use these forums as well. now I need to teach my kid what they mean. I already have enough to worry about as a parent you know.
Admins, mods a ban please. :p
I have to admit, Cue... I think I may have had you pegged wrong before. That was a very mature and well thought out post, and I like your active approach to responsible parenting.
We sort of agree in some ways. I'll respond to rumsey's exhaustive post best I can. I am saying this with all due respect to all parties and readers.

I'm sorry if my post pissed you off, but you now just admitted the weakness in your own analogy. Using children as the focal point of the analogy was in poor taste and it made the situation seem like something it is not. This is about a guy's name on live, not about what children do. Now that that's ancient history, let's move on to the point. I understand the argument that it is weird and perhaps inappropriate to announce your sexuality publicly. I will concede that it is indeed weird, heck I wouldn't do it, but that does not mean that the person has no right to do it. I did not see this person pushing any particular beliefs or screaming at people (as is with all analogies thus far) about sexuality. It is just a name. This person can call himself anything he likes whether it identifies with himself or not as long as profanity (and apparently publicizing MS's competition) is left out. That is why I am suspicious about the complaint being made to protect children as opposed to a personal belief. This person's name has not harmed a child; a mother's complaint takes away a gamer's choice in a fair name. It's just my opinion, but it sure smells like homophobia to me. We may agree or disagree on that, but we mustn't confuse the issue of a gamertag to a child being exposed to every sexual act you mentioned. There's a difference between explaining to a child that some people can fall in love with people of the same gender and what a dirty sanchez is. I think this was simply a poor choice of words to make your point, and I do not think that you are hateful, but please understand that when you use such extreme examples, it appears that the issue is being compared (via poor analogy) to something that is downright gross. Putting so much effort into mocking my choice in phrasing doesn't do much for your argument either.

And as Cue stated (and you added), Live is not just for children; it is a public community. However, it is not the community's obligation to tend to the children. Children should be supervised. MS shouldn't have to censor a person's name (that has no profanity) to appease one mother who apparently trusts MS to look after her child's well being (which apparently is to hide the existence gay from him/her). I would argue Live is no place for a five year old anyway (the age being from your example). Being gay is not a sexual innuendo, and I don't agree that parents should be fearful of it being a part of a name.
Idiot on every count. If you one tenth the intelligence of Happsai your concerns might be worth addressing, but as it stands - they're all in your head. I don't know why you've got nothing better to do but make up reasons for yourself to hate me, but if you want to start hating me, you can take your place at the back of the line.While calling people idiots certainly doesn't help, I don't think anybody here hates you. While we strongly disagree with each other, we have no reason to outright hate each other. I'm willing to bet nobody in the line you mentioned hates you either. This is MaxConsole. The level of animosity in this thread is par for the course.;)

Stop posting.
This was great.:D I love it when people use their access to online discussion to encourage others not to use theirs.

[Blazeking]

why are people making this about homophobia when the MS guy clearly says they would do the same thing for "TheStraighterGamer" or "TheHeterosexualgamer" ?!

Hint: He never said if "TheHappierGamer" would get the same treatment as those two you mentioned.

[Cue]

Idiot on every count.
:eek: The irony of what you are replying to with that comment astonishes me.

I don't know why you've got nothing better to do but make up reasons for yourself to hate me,

I hope that you are not implying that I somehow have no life just because I'm having a discussion with you. Another quote belongs here.

"fools despise good counsel, but the wise take it to heart"

but if you want to start hating me, you can take your place at the back of the line.

You saying I for some reason hate you seems to be a bit hypocritical since you put forward a somewhat similar argument to Happasai about disagreeing with somebody/something does not mean you hate that person/thing (Which by the way I agree with).

Now me saying
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools talk because they have to say something."
was not intended to offend you and I can only apologies if you felt that way. it was in relation to this
"Aww, well you get prepared to Boo Hoo too, then."
If it were the other way around and you had given me that quote after I had said what you said it would have put a smile on my face. After all fools think they are wise, the wise think they are fools.

Now me saying all these quotes, it is not to somehow imply I'm wiser than you and that you are a fool. If I were to say I'm a fool would imply that I think I'm wise now that I have given them. I simply gave quotes because they describe a philosophy in a concise way. I simply was sharing it with you because it fitted the context what you think of them or how you interpret them is up to you, they are not intended as an attack.

Anyway back on topic:

What I would like to know is how long has this person had this gametag since I sense that its a ban as a result of Microsofts ostentatious virtue now that they have realised family based gaming brings in the money.

[Cue]

I have to admit, Cue... I think I may have had you pegged wrong before. That was a very mature and well thought out post, and I like your active approach to responsible parenting.

Thank you Happsai :D:cool:

[Amante]

Okay you seem to be confused, because the things you are trying to correlate are not analogous. The point is that YOU DON'T NEED TO BE ON A SOCIAL NETWORK DESIGNED AS MUCH FOR CHILDREN, AS ADULTS, ADVERTISING YOUR SEXUAL PREFERENCE. If you bothered to read Microsoft's reply, they said that gamer tags like TheStraightGamer or TheHeteroGamer would, and HAVE, been banned as well.
Obviously there is no problem with saying, "I'm black" in a forum of any age, as even the children might say something as innocent as this. However, if one child in the day care is running around scream "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" or "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!", then obviously this child is going to be put in time out (banned), because sexual preference and discussion do not belong in a playplace for children!

Your argument is flawed on many levels, and the way you choose to present it suggests some degree of latent homophobia, small or large.

A person stating their sexual orientation is NOT equivalent to running around in a day care center screaming about fucking, nor does mere statement of sexual orientation lead to or equal sexual discussion.

The purpose of screen name is to say something about yourself to other users. Different people choose different defining traits to highlight about their personalities. For some people, that would be the fact that they're gay, a trait more defining than normal in a gay person's life due to the lack of social acceptance gay people have struggled with for hundreds of years (and still do to this day). In addition, "gay" is a word commonly accepted to define homosexuals, and is in no way vulgar.

In short: just because it makes you uncomfortable, doesn't mean it's wrong. I doubt the word "gay" itself lead to name being banned. What most likely did would be what the word brings up in some viewers: fear and/or hatred of homosexuality.

That's the most common form of homophobia (and of racism as well): people who are "morally" uncomfortable with a sexual orientation, race, or any different kind of lifestyle, and they can't let their feelings stay their own feelings, so they have to force it on other people.

Contrary to popular belief, most racists and homophobes don't go around screaming "I HATE FAGS AND NIGGERS". While there's certainly overt bigots in the world, most intolerance is a lot more subtle and internal, and not openly expressed either out of fear of retribution or because the person in question doesn't "believe it's acceptable" to have those feelings (but does anyway, and still lets them out in other ways that are just as bad, if not worse, than openly expressing them). Few people would openly argue that homophobia or racism are okay. Key word: openly.

In fact, it tends to be the latent bigots (consciously or subconsciously) that make posts like yours: sweeping black and white statements, grand appeals to "decency", and last but not least, a lack of logic inspired by the poster's emotional connection to the subject brought forth by conviction in their personal beliefs.

Once someone has a negative reaction to something due to their preconceptions (like the word "gay" in a screen name), all it takes is for them and their fellow like-minded users to report it enough times and it'll get "dealt" with by the people in charge. That's the great scam with all the "web 2.0" social networking sites and services that are all the craze these days: they've created something bigger than what they can monitor in an economically feasible manner, so they rely on reactionary alarmists to flag something to bring it to their attention. At that time, they'll compare the amount of complaints with what's "commonly" accepted and remove it if it's a possible threat to their bottom line. YouTube, Craigslist, and many other sites do this every day.

So perhaps you can see how it's really not the word "gay" in the name that is questionable, but people's perceptions and emotions surrounding it and what it "implies" to them.

Oh, and just FYI:

• Xbox Live is not a "playplace" or "social network" for children. It is purposely not intended for anyone under the age of 13. For the record, I'm pretty sure even the dumbest of 13 year old kids are aware of what straight and gay sexual orientations are, especially in this day and age.

• Your daycare analogy implied "I LIKE FUCKING GIRLS!" as heterosexual and "I LIKE FUCKING LITTLE BOYS!" as homosexual. Subtle, and classy as well, good sir.

[Happsai]

After all fools think they are wise, the wise think they are fools.
One could argue that getting into heated debates on the Internet (on a video game website no less) makes us all fools. :D Oh well. It's all in good fun.

What I would like to know is how long has this person had this gametag since I sense that its a ban as a result of Microsofts ostentatious virtue now that they have realised family based gaming brings in the money.
That's an interesting question, and in it I think you pinpointed the ending motive for MS. If they force a gamer (gay or not) to change his tag, that person will probably continue to be a gamer and a customer. Meanwhile, a concerned mother may take away her children's access to being online customers. Although I disagree with MS's action, I don't believe there was any hate or malice in it. My concern is the motives of the complainer.

[Cue]

While there's certainly overt bigots in the world, most intolerance is a lot more subtle and internal, and not openly expressed either out of fear of retribution or because the person in question doesn't "believe it's acceptable"


they'll compare the amount of complaints with what's "commonly" accepted and remove it if it's a possible threat to their bottom line. YouTube, Craigslist, and many other sites do this every day.


Some good points but surely your thoughts of rumsey being a latent homophobe is all assumed on one word, though I do see your point.

Your comments about latent racism are interesting, if somebody has discriminatory thoughts but does not openly express them because they find these thoughts unacceptable then they have done absolutely nothing wrong. Its about animal instinct, if I were an animal and a group of purple animals came to my nest and what was most distinctive of them was the fact that they were actually purple. They attacked me and took my food/off spring then my animal instinct will be to fear the purple animals and stay clear I would be worried if you didn't fear them. The next time I see purple animals what would distinguish me as discriminatory and therefore not humane is not the fact that I had the thought of fear spring up in my head its the fact that I could not suppress them. The fact that we can suppress feelings through logic is the basis of humanity. We as humans can come to the conclusion that it is not that they have a certain physical characteristic but that they were just violent animals who happened to have a certain characteristic and so we do not discriminate even though purple animals may bring bad memories.

[Cue]

Some good points but surely your thoughts of rumsey being a latent homophobe is all assumed on one word, though I do see your point.

Your comments about latent racism are interesting, if somebody has discriminatory thoughts but does not openly express them because they find these thoughts unacceptable then they have done absolutely nothing wrong. Its about animal instinct, if I were an animal and a group of purple animals came to my nest and what was most distinctive of them was the fact that they were actually purple. They attacked me and took my food/off spring then my animal instinct will be to fear the purple animals and stay clear I would be worried if you didn't fear them. The next time I see purple animals what would distinguish me as discriminatory and therefore not humane is not the fact that I had the thought of fear spring up in my head its the fact that I could not suppress them. The fact that we can suppress feelings through logic is the basis of humanity. We as humans can come to the conclusion that it is not that they have a certain physical characteristic but that they were just violent animals who happened to have a certain characteristic and so we do not discriminate even though purple animals may bring bad memories.

Edit: I think I may have realised what you meant, by acceptable do you mean unacceptable by the general public or in the persons own school of thought.

real edit:
sorry about the double post I'm sure I pressed edit not quote :o

[Cue]

One could argue that getting into heated debates on the Internet (on a video game website no less) makes us all fools. :D Oh well. It's all in good fun.

Agree, to be honest I don't know why I do it. good fun indeed.:)

[Amante]

My main point was that very few people see themselves as "racist" or "homophobic". Even neo-nazis prefer to be defined as "white nationalists" -- sometimes to hide under the radar, sometimes because that's genuinely the way they see themselves.

A person does not have to make a conscious, straightforward decision to have bigoted behavior, and very few people do. For most, it was the way they were brought up or raised, sometimes relating to their religion or ethnic group.

Honestly, I myself have some impulses and triggers related to people different than me. I think it's near impossible to grow up in this day and age and not have some.

Where it becomes a problem is when it's systemic; when it's at the level that it 1> persistently effects your interactions with a certain group of people in a negative way, and 2> you start forcing your personal feelings / view of those people on others . . . such as, say, reporting a screen name just because it (tastefully) refers to a sexual orientation that is uncomfortable for you to think about.

[Happsai]

Where it becomes a problem is when it's systemic; when it's at the level that it 1> persistently effects your interactions with a certain group of people in a negative way, and 2> you start forcing your personal feelings / view of those people on others . . . such as, say, reporting a screen name just because it (tastefully) refers to a sexual orientation that is uncomfortable for you to think about.
Very well stated!
Your previous post was also very well put together. I could not have summarized the the situation any better.
Where the heck have you been this whole time???;)

[Cue]

Where it becomes a problem is when it's systemic; when it's at the level that it 1> persistently effects your interactions with a certain group of people in a negative way, and 2> you start forcing your personal feelings / view of those people on others . . . such as, say, reporting a screen name just because it (tastefully) refers to a sexual orientation that is uncomfortable for you to think about.

Me being pedantic here but... I consider behavioural changes or forcing discriminatory views/feelings on others the same as openly expressing discrimination.

Are you a forum lurker or did you just sign up and forget about us for a while :D

Oh almost forgot why I posted in the first place: Very well clarified and I agree whole heartedly (if only this forum had that clapping smily you find on other forums)

[Amante]

Me being pedantic here but... I consider behavioural changes or forcing discriminatory views/feelings on others the same as openly expressing discrimination.
Were it that the rest of the world considered it the same as well -- we'd have a lot less bullshit going on. :)

Are you a forum lurker or did you just sign up and forget about us for a while :D
The latter :)