MS: shift away from discs will happen sooner than any of us think

[Zeus]

Xbox Europe boss, Chris Lewis, has been praising digital downloads and dismissing Blu-rays victory. He says we will soon look back at shiny discs in the way that we think about vinyl or VCRs today. Lewis believes that despite Blu-rays victory the transition from downloads to digital discs will happen sooner than any of us think. "That's the future direction, and I think that's going to be the case in the next 12-18 months," he said. He concluded that HD DVDs demise will have no effect on the Xbox 360 and that their system is the best for digital downloads.

<center><img src="http://www.maxconsole.net/content_img/xblbu.jpg"></center></a>


"That's the future direction, and I think that's going to be the case in the next 12-18 months," he predicted. "I think we're going to be talking much more about that than anything else. Do I think that this Christmas will somehow be defined by DVD playback? I genuinely don't think that will be the case. I do not think that [the demise of HD DVD] will have any material impact on our console velocity. And I think other factors, specifically our architecture around downloads, is far more advantageous and important for the future."

He added: "We are best placed to offer that, we already offer that, our online pedigree is such that we will offer the best and most seamless experience."


News Source: <a href="http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=34141" target=_blank">gamesindustry</a>

[unwanted]

I for one will not purchase a Digital Download that cannot easily be backed up to media format, if I cannot purchase an original Disk... :p

also I wouldnt even consider downloading over or upto 25GB of data... on one product... I think it will also mean the devs will get less for there products... as people will see how big the files are that they are paying for and then decide that it isnt sometimes value for money...

[crash04]

Except for the outrageous prices for the hard drives that are too small to handle any decent amount of HD content.

[outletpro]

You would think with talk of shifting away from discs, they would offer a hard drive with every 360 console instead of having it optional.

[AcCeSsDeNiEd]

Here we go again with their crap.
12-18 months? Even more crap.

Just after hollywood makes a comment, M$ has to come out load their crap once again onto us.

Has M$ gone nutz? Or is this just plain marketing?

Sure digi downloads can replace dvds, but not a high-def movie.

[mexx123]

looool M$ speaks always **** - i don´t pay for Downloading Games i will DVD or Blue Ray´s and will hold in my hand what i pay !!!!

[des]

If they give me a free 1TB HD maybe yes, otherwise no thanks!

[Spnoz]

Why would anyone believe that digital downloads for movies will be the norm soon, when the industry still haven't come up with a satisfactory system for digital distribution of music yet?

No legal music distribution website offer any good value for the money.
Tracks are of inferior quality than what you can find on a CD
Buying an entire album sometimes cost almost as much as buying the CD
Tracks are full of DRM to prevent you from using the content you paid for as you wish.
And you don't get the bonus of having all this artwork and additionnal content in a printed booklet, and you don't get those extras (videos, interactive stuff) you sometimes get out of some CDs.


Overall, aside from people only wanting one or two song from a specific album, I don't understand anyone thinking buying a whole album in digital form on a service like iTunes (Or Zune marketplace, or whatever other service) is a good deal.

And look at the music industry. Would anyone out there say that digital distribution had killed the CD market? Maybe stores sell a bit less CDs, but CDs are still selling VERY WELL, and I don't see any change in that in the foreseeable future. Digital distribution will continue to exists alongside traditional physcial media.

And seriously... Microsoft is one of the company I trust the LEAST, when it comes to digital rights management. They already mess it up so bad with LIVE arcade downloads that we can't do anything else than being afraid when they think about setting up a digital distribution system for BUYING movies (and not renting them, as is the case right now).

And also, there's the bandwidth issue. The time were most people will be able to download many 25Gb movies per month (because that's the size of an average 1080p HD movie properly encoded), is still far, far off.

That Chris Lewis guy surely does smoke some powerful stuff.

[Area512004]

What!! Microshite!!:rolleyes:

Like I said yesterday:
"And what about if you want to part exchange or sell a DVD or Blu Ray movie/game if you dont want to keep it?
You cant walk into Best Buy or Computer Exchange(UK) etc.. with Blu Ray/DVD Games & Movies on a "HARD DRIVE/ BD-RE etc..." and expect to get cash or exchange for something else!!

Peace! :rolleyes:

[McPhooey]

Can't see any of my relatives getting broadband, let alone a broadband package that has decent download limits in order to start downloading tv+films.

Hurts to say it, blu-ray wins........ish, I guesstimate it will take 3+ years before it sells more copies of a new film than DVD.

Actually doesn't hurt to say it........ it is a good format, so was HD-DVD, one had to go.

[misthero]

I don't know in USA, but I'm sure your internet connections are very fast, I live in Italy and here our connections su.cks badly, I have a 2Mbit DSL but if I have a lucky day I can download at 25k in direct download. Can you imagine me downloading a 25GB product?

In big cities like Rome or Milan, connections are a little better, but 80% of Italians have very bad connections. I`ve spent some time in Spain and the situation is very similar there, I don't think ppl is goin to download that much contect soon, at least here in Europe.

[Claxiux]

Thats a nice way to say what they really ment: 'Sony told us to f-off when we asked them for the drive'

[IBNobody]

Why would anyone believe that digital downloads for movies will be the norm soon, when the industry still haven't come up with a satisfactory system for digital distribution of music yet?

No legal music distribution website offer any good value for the money.
Tracks are of inferior quality than what you can find on a CD
Buying an entire album sometimes cost almost as much as buying the CD
Tracks are full of DRM to prevent you from using the content you paid for as you wish.
And you don't get the bonus of having all this artwork and additionnal content in a printed booklet, and you don't get those extras (videos, interactive stuff) you sometimes get out of some CDs.


Overall, aside from people only wanting one or two song from a specific album, I don't understand anyone thinking buying a whole album in digital form on a service like iTunes (Or Zune marketplace, or whatever other service) is a good deal.

And look at the music industry. Would anyone out there say that digital distribution had killed the CD market? Maybe stores sell a bit less CDs, but CDs are still selling VERY WELL, and I don't see any change in that in the foreseeable future. Digital distribution will continue to exists alongside traditional physcial media.

And seriously... Microsoft is one of the company I trust the LEAST, when it comes to digital rights management. They already mess it up so bad with LIVE arcade downloads that we can't do anything else than being afraid when they think about setting up a digital distribution system for BUYING movies (and not renting them, as is the case right now).

And also, there's the bandwidth issue. The time were most people will be able to download many 25Gb movies per month (because that's the size of an average 1080p HD movie properly encoded), is still far, far off.

That Chris Lewis guy surely does smoke some powerful stuff.

I don't disagree with the idea that DD's are BS, but I think your take on the CD issue is off base. CD sales are declining because MP3s are simply a better format.

Who listens to CDs these days? You might listen to a CD in your car or on your home stereo, but the typical person is migrating to portable MP3 players. MP3s are easier and more convenient to use.

In order for new technology to be adopted, the tech needs to have two major advantages over the previous format. DVDs had better picture quality and lacked the FF/REW hassle of VCR tapes.

Will DD have any of these advantages? Not in its current form. The only reason why many of us use DD's is because that's how the pirated stuff is distributed online.

The biggest thing DD needs is a compelling reason why you should buy a bunch of bits instead of some physical media that you can take to your friend's house for movie night.

[alkalinetrio]

Yeah right....

thats why MS are already going into another dealership with another form of HD conent of DVD 2.0 or whatever they're marketing it as, capable of being played on standard DVD players that they don't see as defining this christmas period...

Slightly contradictory there.

[BloodyJesus]

That will never ever happen. Discs will always win the war.

[o0kojiro0o]

As someone said previously, a 1080p movie would be around 25gigs. Aside from the bandwidth limitations (on the best consumer class connections, that's still about a day long download), There's also the storage issue. Even a 1tb hard drive could only hold about 40 movies. So not only do you have to pay for the download, you have to pay a rate of around 300 dollars for every 40 movies you want. That's also limited by whatever set top box you have. Many only have 1 place for a hard drive and Media PCs are simply not main stream. Not to mention the biggest hard drive on the system "pioneering" digital distribution is 140 gigs (so you can enjoy all 5 of your HD movies... just after you delete you gamesaves).These limitations are really too much to make digital distribution the norm any time soon.

[kmoed]

As someone said previously, a 1080p movie would be around 25gigs. Aside from the bandwidth limitations (on the best consumer class connections, that's still about a day long download), There's also the storage issue. Even a 1tb hard drive could only hold about 40 movies. So not only do you have to pay for the download, you have to pay a rate of around 300 dollars for every 40 movies you want. That's also limited by whatever set top box you have. Many only have 1 place for a hard drive and Media PCs are simply not main stream. Not to mention the biggest hard drive on the system "pioneering" digital distribution is 140 gigs (so you can enjoy all 5 of your HD movies... just after you delete you gamesaves).These limitations are really too much to make digital distribution the norm any time soon.

I currently have 67 1080p movies sitting on a 1TB HDD. With plenty of space for more. Ever heard of .mkv? x264?

[kmoed]

[QUOTE=Spnoz;888304]Why would anyone believe that digital downloads for movies will be the norm soon, when the industry still haven't come up with a satisfactory system for digital distribution of music yet?

No legal music distribution website offer any good value for the money.
Tracks are of inferior quality than what you can find on a CD
Buying an entire album sometimes cost almost as much as buying the CD
Tracks are full of DRM to prevent you from using the content you paid for as you wish.
And you don't get the bonus of having all this artwork and additionnal content in a printed booklet, and you don't get those extras (videos, interactive stuff) you sometimes get out of some CDs.


The reason's above are the exact reasons studio's will move to digital content. They want nothing more then to have consumers keep repurchasing the same content over and over again.


Digital Content is completely killing the music biz as we know it.I know that first hand. CD sales have declined every year.

[phallius]

Sure, sell the lie. Just because you say it doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Why would anyone want downloaded content from you anyway. I remember stories about how people send their 360's in for RROD and you wipe the hard drive clean. Then, when the customer wants their downloadable content replaced, you said,"Sorry, we are not responsible." This story has been heard constantly. Also, we've all talked about how we want the media in hand with all the paperwork, CD/DVD art and commentary. THIS WILL NEVER CHANGE. M$, there is no way you are going to define what people want. At this point, you have no ground to stand on. You are full of lies; lies so frequent, people at Maxconsole are quick to point out that for every media statement you make, the opposite is ALWAYS true. The last one was, "We are not supporting blue ray." Ya, right...that lie will be proven in the coming weeks. Again, M$ you are such a lying, conniving piece of crap and your products are rushed to market so that people have to depend on stupid updates. You tried to push Vista on us with games and software that is "Vista Only" What happened to Halo 2 PC? You send out the XBOX with the biggest failure rate every witnessed in a game console just so you can beat SOny out the door. Now, 3 million people have reported their 360's dead. Nice warranty but what a headache. I hope you have a good excuse during deposition. We all know how good you do in court.;)

[Spnoz]

I don't disagree with the idea that DD's are BS, but I think your take on the CD issue is off base. CD sales are declining because MP3s are simply a better format.

What I'm talking about, is a "legal" format. While we could debate about how much digital availability have an impact on CD sales, most digital content legally bought isn't in MP3 format. It's always in a proprietary format, mostly highly DRM'd WMAs on most sites who legally sell music in digital form.

While I agree that being able to download music (legally or illegaly) DOES have an impact on CD sales, I don't think it's the SOLE, or the biggest, responsible for this. Street music stores (well, the ones near where I live) still sell music CDs by the bucketload, as do other big chains like Walmart and co.

To say that these stores would sell more music if DD wasn't available could only be hypotetical. Simply because to really affect sales, one should have had the intention of buying the CD instead of downloading it. And this isn't true most of the time.



Who listens to CDs these days?

Probably all those folks who buy them by the truckload in stores. There's a reason why stores like Walmart still has a huge CD section. If they wouldn't sell, they wouldn't carry them. People could also buy CDs in stores, and then rip it to their portable device for playing it on the go (that's what I do, personnaly).

Will DD have any of these advantages? Not in its current form. The only reason why many of us use DD's is because that's how the pirated stuff is distributed online.

The biggest thing DD needs is a compelling reason why you should buy a bunch of bits instead of some physical media that you can take to your friend's house for movie night.

On that, we agree. There is no reason (right now) why anyone would like to buy their movies online (or even music - well, to me anyways). And I think it's all about pricing. Because paying almost full price (compared to a CD) for music files full of restrictive DRM and also of lesser sound quality, is a total ripoff to me. If it was like, 2 or 3 bucks for an entire album, I wouldn't mind the DRM and the quality issue as much. But right now, it's not even worth considering to me.

But the thing is, the industry see digital downloads as a way to make even more profits, as there is no physical media or production costs involved, and you force people to buy the same thing multiple times. So of course the industry will try to push DD.

But right now, renting a movie on Live marketplace costs me about as much as buying a physical copy, if I take into account the bandwidth cost associated with it. Why would I bother?

[ku16610]

I currently have 67 1080p movies sitting on a 1TB HDD. With plenty of space for more. Ever heard of .mkv? x264?

He prolly meant consumers not pirates.

[chucky_uk]

Thats a nice way to say what they really ment: 'Sony told us to f-off when we asked them for the drive'

Sony cant tell then to **** off.

It's the BD group not Sony on there own.

Again another fanboy post by you.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[chucky_uk]

Sure, sell the lie. Just because you say it doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. Why would anyone want downloaded content from you anyway. I remember stories about how people send their 360's in for RROD and you wipe the hard drive clean. Then, when the customer wants their downloadable content replaced, you said,"Sorry, we are not responsible." This story has been heard constantly. Also, we've all talked about how we want the media in hand with all the paperwork, CD/DVD art and commentary. THIS WILL NEVER CHANGE. M$, there is no way you are going to define what people want. At this point, you have no ground to stand on. You are full of lies; lies so frequent, people at Maxconsole are quick to point out that for every media statement you make, the opposite is ALWAYS true. The last one was, "We are not supporting blue ray." Ya, right...that lie will be proven in the coming weeks. Again, M$ you are such a lying, conniving piece of crap and your products are rushed to market so that people have to depend on stupid updates. You tried to push Vista on us with games and software that is "Vista Only" What happened to Halo 2 PC? You send out the XBOX with the biggest failure rate every witnessed in a game console just so you can beat SOny out the door. Now, 3 million people have reported their 360's dead. Nice warranty but what a headache. I hope you have a good excuse during deposition. We all know how good you do in court.;)

Your a fuckin idiot, every post you write is the same ****.

Stop spamming the 360 threads

Mods ban this fool

[grapeape]

I rarely watch a movie more than once but still have a dvd library of over 1000 movies. If it was practical I would rip them all to a media server and put the disks in the basement, it takes up alot of space and the only "benefit" I guess is that it looks impressive. I outgrew the "my dvd shelf is bigger than yours" years ago, now all I see is 1/4th of the wallspace in my family room taken up by hordes of little boxes.

I have already shifted to redbox and time warners on demand for my movie watching lately, if there were an all you can watch deal like Netflix for streaming I would jump on in a heartbeat.

[o0kojiro0o]

I currently have 67 1080p movies sitting on a 1TB HDD. With plenty of space for more. Ever heard of .mkv? x264?

I love MKV, great quality. Only problem is it's not an industry standard and won't be the choice for digital distribution. x264 is used a lot but it still makes for large file sizes. The point I was trying to make though is if you want large movie collection, digital distribution makes it somewhat difficult and impractical, especially if you want completely lossless quality.

[NyghtcrawleR]

12-18 months lol...

That is seriously the dumbest thing Ive ever heard. If you talk digital streaming, maybe. If you talk actually owning and storing, hell no. Thats years off....years.

The majority of the population are not adopting storing digital content like movies anytime soon. Fool.

[Patango]

Xbox Europe boss, Chris Lewis, has been praising digital downloads and dismissing Blu-rays victory.

The guy has lost the plot. Most 360 owners' hard drives aren't big enough to support such a service. Not to mention the ISP's that would have to transit the data, they simply can't handle it. Just look at the fallout from the BBC iPlayer!

The only viable option for the next few years (in the UK at least), is real media... (Blu-Ray seemingly).

MS *will* be bringin out a Blu-Ray drive, no matter what sour grapes they're spitting now. They simply can't afford not to unless they want to stagnate their userbase as of now.

Would anyone buy a 360 now? The poor media capabilities (missed killer app) is one thing, but knowing it won't support the dominant movie format EVER (if you believe the press releases), kills it totally.

The choice between a console that can play the only available HD media and one that can't is a no brainer (IMV).

[EvoTroy]

He says we will soon look back at shiny discs in the way that we think about vinyl or VCRs today.

Vinyl is actually on the brink of a small comeback. More people are downloading mp3s but buying vinyl these days because vinyl just has that "cool factor". It makes me feel more warm and fuzzy inside than a CD. Most artists still produce vinyl when they release a record.

I believe that DDs will start to catch on, but all of that DD stuff will also be available on disc for the collector. Of course, to me, that is years away from now. Microsoft is crazy if they think it's going to happen in the next year or 2.

[sigma8]

I don't disagree with the idea that DD's are BS, but I think your take on the CD issue is off base. CD sales are declining because MP3s are simply a better format.

Who listens to CDs these days? You might listen to a CD in your car or on your home stereo, but the typical person is migrating to portable MP3 players. MP3s are easier and more convenient to use.

In order for new technology to be adopted, the tech needs to have two major advantages over the previous format. DVDs had better picture quality and lacked the FF/REW hassle of VCR tapes.

Will DD have any of these advantages? Not in its current form. The only reason why many of us use DD's is because that's how the pirated stuff is distributed online.

The biggest thing DD needs is a compelling reason why you should buy a bunch of bits instead of some physical media that you can take to your friend's house for movie night.

MP3's are portable, and "adequate". They are beating out CD's because making a portable player that holds a couple thousand songs using discs is a bit of a disaster to keep in your pocket. I think for me (and a lot of other people), CD's are still the preferred "transport" mechanism for music. I prefer to buy a CD, then rip it. The only exception is: one-off single-track purchases.

I'd like to see a statistic that compared "whole album" sales on iTunes versus CD sales. I think CD's will still be winning that comparison by a fair margin.

I think the online music stores have redefined WHAT people buy more than HOW they buy it. I think selling "singles" in physical stores is problematic. Apart from a few top songs du jour, demand for catalog releases would be across the board and extremely diverse. They can't stock a brick and mortar store with a million singles, multiple copies of each. It's not practical.

As for MS's comment. You know what? Three months ago, they were all about how HD-DVD was the best format for the consumer, and was set to give us a whole new world of rich high definition content. Now they don't give a rat's a** about discs. Quite a switch. If I didn't know any better, I'd think they were just heavily biased towards whatever hare-brained get-rich scheme they are pursuing at the moment.

[cory149]

the transition from downloads to digital discs will happen sooner than any of us think.
Much sooner than any of us think :D (or am I the only one who noticed this statement pretty much makes all the posts in this thread off topic :p)

[sigma8]

Much sooner than any of us think :D (or am I the only one who noticed this statement pretty much makes all the posts in this thread off topic :p)

No fair :(

[Mikeyy]

I'm confused.
First MS supports HDDVD,

then HDDVD dies,

Microsoft states they never supported HDDVD and have always supported digital Distrobution.

Then Toshiba comes back with Round 2, DVD 2.0 (fucking sad) and Microsoft says they support DVD 2.0..

Now today, they support Digital Distro, and say that Physical media wont make it..

What the **** is Microsofts stance?

[Marsanes]

I think Microsoft has always been behind digital distribution. Supporting HD-DVD was just something of a stop-gap and to fight Sony.

But they are nuts if they think it's going to happen any time soon. I don't think the infrastructure is there for huge downloads by the average person. At least I know I pay $60 a month for broadband, and last month I got throttled for going over 50 gigs

Nor is the Xbox 360 ready, unless you have an Elite

[shadyx]

optical disc or digital distribution....

....bluray/hddvd or itunes/xbox marketplace.....

...doesnt matter which way you look at it, the consumer is still getting taken out the back alley and bent over a trashcan while corporate pieces of **** do you from behind.

those who believe a physical box with a disc and fancy paper marketing inside are the way of the future......obviously are too wrapped up in the corporate "haves" to have any other opinion

myself...i'd rather forsake all of the unnecessary bullshit and just watch the fucking movie without having to worry about 51 languages, 2 extra unnecessary special feature discs (that i will never ever watch, nor is the content actually any good), and the hefty fucking price tag that these corporate fucks will put on the same piece of **** movie you bought 5 years ago.

oh but we need all these new special features and 1080p and 7.1 sound in 51 languages right? dont we? right? do you want extra large fries with that?



now back on topic... digital distribution is already happening (and has been for years)... but dont expect it to happen in such a big way in the next 12-18 months that it could replace optical media, unless some corporate pig comes up with some fancy DRM'ed to hell idea that can make everyone of the rich pigs even more money.

hell i cant even see Digital distribution nor Bluray taking over from DVD in the next 12-18 months. but i can see it being the preferred method of media delivery in the next 5 years.....but only if the corporate assholes can get their overly pricey bite of the pie (like they already have now with DVD/BD/CDs)

...and the depressing thing is....all you fanboy fuckers will swallow it up all over again like the gullible sheep you are

[AcCeSsDeNiEd]

If they give me a free 1TB HD maybe yes, otherwise no thanks!

Your 1TB will only store 40 high-def movies