MS: Mass Effect & Halo 3 proces Xbox 360 competes with PS3's game capacity

[Zeus]

Questions have been asked whether the Xbox 360 can compete with the PS3 in terms of game capacity, but Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg has stated that MS's DVD engineering has calmed tht issue. He pointed to the likes of Mass Effect and Halo 3 as proof that they can compete with the capacity that Blu-ray offers.


The other issue at stake is whether or not the Xbox 360 can compete with the Playstation 3 in terms of game capacity, but Greenberg told us Microsoft's DVD engineering has made that a moot point. "I think it is pretty fair to say that our DVD-9 format coupled with our industry leading online service continues to allow game publishers to bring the best and most expansive games to our platform. 'Mass Effect' is a great proof point," he told us. "It fits on a single DVD-9. The same is true for 'Halo 3.'"


News Source: <A href="http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/36385/98/" target="_blank">Tgdaily</a>

[legendofphil]

The size issue is mainly down to some studios putting in loads of FMVs, we don't need FMVs with current level of systems.

Real time rendered cut-scenes can improve on the quality of the graphics and also the seamless illusions of the experience.

[des]

Uh? Halo has so few content ... I dont know why they even use as example for good use of the dvd9! Total crap once again. If halo would have a 40h campaign and still have dvd9 that would be something to talk about but surely not the halo 3 I was playing...

[three15]

Surely READ and TRANSFER speed must come into it too? most of 360 i've seen, including mine, sometimes take 3-5 secs to load all the textures,mainly when using unreal 3 engine, i've not noticed that on my PS3. i would assume that was to do with the speed of the disc.

[chucky_uk]

Surely READ and TRANSFER speed must come into it too? most of 360 i've seen, including mine, sometimes take 3-5 secs to load all the textures,mainly when using unreal 3 engine, i've not noticed that on my PS3. i would assume that was to do with the speed of the disc.

You got any examples, as i dont have this issue on my 360.

[MadonnaProject]

Surely READ and TRANSFER speed must come into it too? most of 360 i've seen, including mine, sometimes take 3-5 secs to load all the textures,mainly when using unreal 3 engine, i've not noticed that on my PS3. i would assume that was to do with the speed of the disc.

what are you talking about? what unreal engine 3 game have you played on the ps3 off the disc which loaded all textures immidietly? with unreal tournament 3, there is a DISTINCT and considerable loading of the textures, if played from the dics. if you install it to the hard drive you get better performance but theres still loading.

on the 360, you get as immidiate loading times as you would from the ps3's hard drive.

[EliteStance]

That's a dumb response from MS. Size shouldn't be what mattters (snigger here if you must) but game quality.

However, as LO shows, if you have content of a certain size you're going to need multiple DVDs vs a single BR. Whichever way you argue it BR simply has a higher capacity - although I think the whole 'its needed' thing is taken too far.

This is like saying we're confident our 100 GB HDD can match a 300 GB HDD. Not it can't - but if you only need 100 GB you're good to go.

Seriously, I wish both MS and Sony would quite yapping on about the consoles specs and focus on games, content, etc. Besides, the second you respond like this its clear your are rattled that the 'other side' has an advantage in certain circumstances.

[soutthpaw]

Well of course MS are gonna say that. this is not news its on gooing PR propaganda. Post this when some objective source makes such a statement.

[modojojo]

That's a dumb response from MS. Size shouldn't be what mattters (snigger here if you must) but game quality.

However, as LO shows, if you have content of a certain size you're going to need multiple DVDs vs a single BR. Whichever way you argue it BR simply has a higher capacity - although I think the whole 'its needed' thing is taken too far.

This is like saying we're confident our 100 GB HDD can match a 300 GB HDD. Not it can't - but if you only need 100 GB you're good to go.

Seriously, I wish both MS and Sony would quite yapping on about the consoles specs and focus on games, content, etc. Besides, the second you respond like this its clear your are rattled that the 'other side' has an advantage in certain circumstances.

Exactly, Blue dragon can fit on 1 Blu-ray and Lost Odyssey may need a double layered blu-ray disc. Why even bring up this argument. It's like apples and oranges It's foolish.

[msanchez]

Well he's wrong, not that it's a big deal though. In any case I think that more than ms' technologies magically turning 8GB into 25-50GB it's sony not doing as good of a job as they could to highlight BDs capacity for gaming purposes.

Just because the ps3 has a standard HDD sony have apparently not put too much effort into optimizing data transfer, at least that's what it seems like to me, and so things like "compression", "dummy data", etc will always be valid argument points against the ps3.

I like BD, but honestly so far I think it's an underachiever since it *seems* that it could do so much more.

...Besides, the second you respond like this its clear your are rattled that the 'other side' has an advantage in certain circumstances.. So true, after all is said and done, most of us (humans) are so predictable.

[NexusBurst]

Exec opens mouth.. complete crap flies out, ms sony and co need to learn to stop making stupid comparisons. Mass effect has a lack of dynamic content, it's impressive all that speech fit on the disc but how much bigger could the game of been if it was on blu-ray? I have a dislike of the game anyway despite owning it.

As for halo 3 thats the funniest thing i've ever heard! it may have sold many copies but it's been overshadowed by COD4.
Master chief the most hardcore solider takes down entire armies of the same combatants nearly every level, watch as his followers drive the truck sideways instead of fowards and look as masterchief takes over and drives for 40% of the game instead of gunning everything down.

I just can't take these execs seriously anymore :p

[CZroe]

No one thought that Halo was a "huge" game capacity-wise. As for Mass Effect, it's considered an example of just the opposite (DVD limited it). The few criticisms have been about load times due to substantial compression affecting gameplay (the elevator sequences) and abrupt loose ends due to obvously cut content (only some of which will be included in expansions).

[kcvfr400]

There is already a trend since cd was used in cd32 and cd-i of over use of fmv to fill the disc at the start of a console cycle, but as developers find ways to push a machine the capacity becomes necessary.

Its only 2 years and the dvd is struggling as a medium to support games for 360 without either shortening of single player games or multi discs. Compare that 2 ps1 it was the later years that multi discs became necessary for more than final fantasy.

So its hard to see the 360 competing with ps3 capacity in future on sandbox games without dissruption or watering down of the game.

[LeGioN1202]

The size issue is mainly down to some studios putting in loads of FMVs, we don't need FMVs with current level of systems.

Real time rendered cut-scenes can improve on the quality of the graphics and also the seamless illusions of the experience.

Lost Odyssey is pretty much all in game, including the cut scenes, yet it takes up 4 discs. Not to mention 10-20 second loading times, even when going from the World Map to your ship Nautilus takes 10-15 seconds. Bioshock has some big loading between levels too.

Also, take Halo 3 and give it more than a 5 hour SP mode and come to terms with what was promised instead of toning it down to 640p. Let us see how it compares then.

I haven't tried Mass Effect yet though, I am looking forward to it.

Blu Ray does not in any way make a game more enjoyable, but I really hate these damn load time on LO.

[des]

Lost Odyssey is pretty much all in game, including the cut scenes, yet it takes up 4 discs.

Obviously you havent played the game yet and not seen any videos of it then because it has a lot of engine cutscenes but also a shitload of prerendered fmvs ...

[LeGioN1202]

Obviously you havent played the game yet and not seen any videos of it then because it has a lot of engine cutscenes but also a shitload of prerendered fmvs ...


Spoilers.......



Just finished Ice Magic Beast and ended Disc 3. Now looking for a way to traverse through the hypercurrents due to my ship the Nautilus not being able to handle it. I just traveled briefly underwater and rose up in some lake next to the Eastern Tribe Ruins or something like that. I am pretty sure this is where I go.




Wanna call me out some more?

I will even let you know that I mainly use Kaim, Jansen, Seth, Sed and Cooke. They get some kick ass abilities for my immortals to learn after level 40ish... 3 accessories with Sed.

By the way, congrats that you saw some video... I am almost done with the game. You can't call someone out if you have not played it yourself.

Gamertag is Euphoria14 by the way, although Gold will be gone most likely once the free trial is up.

[des]

Just finished Ice Magic Beast and ended Disc 3. Now looking for a way to traverse through the hypercurrents due to my ship the Nautilus not being able to handle it.

Wanna call me out some more?

I will even let you know that I mainly use Kaim, Jansen, Seth, Sed and Cooke. They get some kick ass abilities for my immortals to learn after level 40ish... 3 accessories with Sed.

By the way, congrats that you saw some video... I am almost done with the game. You can't call someone out if you have not played it yourself.

Gamertag is Euphoria14 by the way, although Gold will be gone most likely once the free trial is up.

Then you have another serious problem which is not being able to distinguish between a pre rendered fmv and in game rendered sequenzes from the engine...

At least I have seen plently of pre rendered fmvs ...

[n0rthstar]

The answer to this question is -

Who wants to sit throught hours and hours of cut scenes. Would you rather be PLAYING a game or sitting through a movie? I choose the former. Cut scenes might be nice but add little to the gameplay, how many of us sit through them, i very rarely do and hate games that wont let you skip them.

[LeGioN1202]

Then you have another serious problem which is not being able to distinguish between a pre rendered fmv and in game rendered sequenzes from the engine...

At least I have seen plently of pre rendered fmvs ...

Just answer this pal. Have you played it?

If not, then please stop this discussion. If these are not in game, it is pretty fucking sad for the 360.

Not to mention, it wouldn't explain why in majority of it I have to press A to continue the dialogue. There is some FMV, yes, but enough to warrant this game needing 4 discs? No. It is the game itself that requires more than 1 disc.

Play it, you will realize.

I retract my statement, I just saw the next "video" for the Eastern Tribe Ruins and it is indeed IN GAME.

[LeGioN1202]

The answer to this question is -

Who wants to sit throught hours and hours of cut scenes. Would you rather be PLAYING a game or sitting through a movie? I choose the former. Cut scenes might be nice but add little to the gameplay, how many of us sit through them, i very rarely do and hate games that wont let you skip them.

LO allows you to skip them, only part I dislike it the boring Dream sequences. If you skip them though, you are pretty much skipping the story. Then what point is there to the adventure?

[CZroe]

There is already a trend since cd was used in cd32 and cd-i of over use of fmv to fill the disc at the start of a console cycle, but as developers find ways to push a machine the capacity becomes necessary.

Its only 2 years and the dvd is struggling as a medium to support games for 360 without either shortening of single player games or multi discs. Compare that 2 ps1 it was the later years that multi discs became necessary for more than final fantasy.

So its hard to see the 360 competing with ps3 capacity in future on sandbox games without dissruption or watering down of the game.

I'd say that it's impossible to push CD-i to need CDs for anything but FMVs. ;) Early "multimedia" PC games were the same way. I just love pointing out that Resident Evil 2 was on two discs (1,400MB capacity!) and yet they scaled it down to 64MB on the N64 without sacrificing a single FMV or line of dialog while IMPROVING the controls. Now, I'm sure the FMV quality suffered, but it still goes to show what you get when forced to stop being wasteful on cheap media. I, for one, do believe that DVD capacity is too low... at least if they aren't going to handle multi-disc packaging well.

Lost Odyssey is pretty much all in game, including the cut scenes, yet it takes up 4 discs. Not to mention 10-20 second loading times, even when going from the World Map to your ship Nautilus takes 10-15 seconds. Bioshock has some big loading between levels too.

Also, take Halo 3 and give it more than a 5 hour SP mode and come to terms with what was promised instead of toning it down to 640p. Let us see how it compares then.

I haven't tried Mass Effect yet though, I am looking forward to it.

Blu Ray does not in any way make a game more enjoyable, but I really hate these damn load time on LO.
Are you sure the cut scenes aren't just FMV taken from the in-game engine? LOTS of games do this to avoid jarring quality differences. Two immediately spring to mind: Super Mario Galaxy and Resident Evil 4 PS2 (cutscenes were FMV taken from the Gamecube version's real-time cut-scenes).

Also, the resolution itself would not increase storage requirements, but it would put more pressure on them to add higher detail textures and geometry (lower detail versions would be more readily apparent at higher resolutions). If it had trouble doing a higher resolution in the first place, those would put even more strain on it. They wouldn't be able to just crank up the resolution, texture detail, geometry, etc just because they had enough space for it. If LO truly does real-time cut-scenes, then that is proof enough that larger discs are needed, as is Mass Effect and any number of other "scaled back" games we've been hearing about (was it PGR or FORZA that had to nix having different versions of the level for day, night, rain, dusk, etc?). Sure, they can always go multi-disc, but sometimes the dynamics merit scaling a game back instead.

[LeGioN1202]

I'd say that it's impossible to push CD-i to need CDs for anything but FMVs. ;) Early "multimedia" PC games were the same way. I just love pointing out that Resident Evil 2 was on two discs (1,400MB capacity!) and yet they scaled it down to 64MB on the N64 without sacrificing a single FMV or line of dialog while IMPROVING the controls. Now, I'm sure the FMV quality suffered, but it still goes to show what you get when forced to stop being wasteful on cheap media. I, for one, do believe that DVD capacity is too low... at least if they aren't going to handle multi-disc packaging well.


Are you sure the cut scenes aren't just FMV taken from the in-game engine? LOTS of games do this to avoid jarring quality differences. Two immediately spring to mind: Super Mario Galaxy and Resident Evil 4 PS2 (cutscenes were FMV taken from the Gamecube version's real-time cut-scenes).

Also, the resolution itself would not increase storage requirements, but it would put more pressure on them to add higher detail textures and geometry (lower detail versions would be more readily apparent at higher resolutions). If it had trouble doing a higher resolution in the first place, those would put even more strain on it. They wouldn't be able to just crank up the resolution, texture detail, geometry, etc just because they had enough space for it. If LO truly does real-time cut-scenes, then that is proof enough that larger discs are needed, as is Mass Effect and any number of other "scaled back" games we've been hearing about (was it PGR or FORZA that had to nix having different versions of the level for day, night, rain, dusk, etc?). Sure, they can always go multi-disc, but sometimes the dynamics merit scaling a game back instead.

From what I know, sometimes you need to press A to continue the dialogue. Although when I do not need to press anything the video goes on it's own, there is no difference between quality to that in game.

I do not see this warranting 4 discs if people wanna go on the FMV arguement alone. Majority of this game you need to press A to continue dialogue.

It is a great game though, but loading it a pain in the ass.

[des]

Just answer this pal. Have you played it?

If not, then please stop this discussion. If these are not in game, it is pretty fucking sad for the 360.

Not to mention, it wouldn't explain why in majority of it I have to press A to continue the dialogue. There is some FMV, yes, but enough to warrant this game needing 4 discs? No. It is the game itself that requires more than 1 disc.

Play it, you will realize.

Stop calling me "pal", thanks!

As for palaying, 85h+ and 980/1000 points :rolleyes:!

As for the need of "insert dvds here", I can only say I am not a programmer and there curenntly is no way of checking whats really on the disc. However HQ 720p cutscenes, good quality audio and also audio tracks for multiple languages and other stuff can take space pretty fast. Maybe another team would have gotten it to 2 dvds, however I doubt that LO could run from a single DVD ...

The answer to this question is -

Who wants to sit throught hours and hours of cut scenes. Would you rather be PLAYING a game or sitting through a movie? I choose the former. Cut scenes might be nice but add little to the gameplay, how many of us sit through them, i very rarely do and hate games that wont let you skip them.

Sorry but then play some crap egoshooter...cutscenes are a great way of delivering the story. If you cant live with that just play something else. Also we werent talking about cutscenes that take hours each here.....

[LeGioN1202]

Stop calling me "pal", thanks!

As for palaying, 85h+ and 980/1000 points :rolleyes:!

As for the need of "insert dvds here", I can only say I am not a programmer and there curenntly is no way of checking whats really on the disc. However HQ 720p cutscenes, good quality audio and also audio tracks for multiple languages and other stuff can take space pretty fast. Maybe another team would have gotten it to 2 dvds, however I doubt that LO could run from a single DVD ...

My post has been edited by me due to looking like an idiot. :)

[Ichinisan]

This is a joke! Mass Effect, specifically, was gimped due to capacity! They had to remove MAJOR storyline elements and a LARGE PORTION OF THE GAME. There are remnants everywhere. Characters throughout the game reference major events and areas that were just flat-out removed from the game.

Fortunately, some of this will be added as downloadable content, but we'll end up paying for that. The download content will never integrate with the story the way it was originally intended, so Mass Effect will never be as good as it could have been if the developers were allowed to use more storage.

[des]

Alrighty then, I'll just try to not be polite and be an ass. I guess people like that better.

As you also read I stated the game itself requires "more than 1 disc", I never stated it could be done on one. Can it be done on 1 Blu Ray with Lossless audio and uncompressed graphics and lower load times? I think yes.

So i'll just be impolite now. I guess this site just enjoys people who are mean.

Alright, if that is your type of thing.

I also never said I hated cutscenes. I am possibly one of the biggest RPG players in here and LOVED the hell out of the Xenosaga series... I must HATE FMV driven games huh?

You love to jump to conclusions, thinking you know someone. Well... our conversation is over. One thing i can't stand more than anything is assuming, which you have done time and time again in this thread.

Goodbye.
Do you mind checking my post before you reply? Because obviously the last part wasnt even directed at you :).

[LeGioN1202]

Do you mind checking my post before you reply? Because obviously the last part wasnt even directed at you :).

Then who was go play an Egoshooter if you don't like story driven games aimed at? Last I checked you quoted my post.

Edit - My post does not show who else you quoted. My bad.

It was indeed directed to someone else, disregard my last post and I apologize.

Gotta go pick up some chairs, gotta go.

If you wanna continue any conversation feel free to PM. :)

[des]

nvm post not needed anymore xD

[LeGioN1202]

nvm post not needed anymore xD

Gotcha. :)

[msanchez]

The answer to this question is -

Who wants to sit throught hours and hours of cut scenes. Would you rather be PLAYING a game or sitting through a movie? I choose the former. Cut scenes might be nice but add little to the gameplay, how many of us sit through them, i very rarely do and hate games that wont let you skip them.

Some of us need to actually know why we're doing the things we're doing in the game. Go from point A to point B and kill everything en route just doesn't cut it for everyone.

[grapeape]

The answer to this question is -

Who wants to sit throught hours and hours of cut scenes. Would you rather be PLAYING a game or sitting through a movie? I choose the former. Cut scenes might be nice but add little to the gameplay, how many of us sit through them, i very rarely do and hate games that wont let you skip them.

What is the point of playing a game if you skip most of the story? Even in FPS's I tend to watch them since they at least provide some semblance of a reason for whatever mindless shooting is going on.

I just dont get it, I have an aquaintence at work who is the same way though..skips everything that doesnt involve trigger and button mashing and thinks pretty much everything but madden, fighting games and fps's suck....of course he is also pretty severly ADD, has he patience of a gnat and is generally an annoying twit. He loves to bug me about whatever crappy game he is currently trying to race though as quickly as possible. He bragged about getting through Bioshock in 12 hours, when I asked him about what he thought of some of the story elements he had no idea what I was talking about, kinda sad as he missed the best part of the game.

[CZroe]

What is the point of playing a game if you skip most of the story? Even in FPS's I tend to watch them since they at least provide some semblance of a reason for whatever mindless shooting is going on.

I just dont get it, I have an aquaintence at work who is the same way though..skips everything that doesnt involve trigger and button mashing and thinks pretty much everything but madden, fighting games and fps's suck....of course he is also pretty severly ADD, has he patience of a gnat and is generally an annoying twit. He loves to bug me about whatever crappy game he is currently trying to race though as quickly as possible. He bragged about getting through Bioshock in 12 hours, when I asked him about what he thought of some of the story elements he had no idea what I was talking about, kinda sad as he missed the best part of the game.

I admire Half-Life 2 for integrating it with the gameplay. There is not a single cut-scene arresting control from the player from the moment you take your first step on that train. Half-Life 1 did this too, though less compellingly. Half-Life 2 Episode One and Two continued it and proved them to be the masters of in-game story-telling.

[modojojo]

What is the point of playing a game if you skip most of the story? Even in FPS's I tend to watch them since they at least provide some semblance of a reason for whatever mindless shooting is going on.

I just dont get it, I have an aquaintence at work who is the same way though..skips everything that doesnt involve trigger and button mashing and thinks pretty much everything but madden, fighting games and fps's suck....of course he is also pretty severly ADD, has he patience of a gnat and is generally an annoying twit. He loves to bug me about whatever crappy game he is currently trying to race though as quickly as possible. He bragged about getting through Bioshock in 12 hours, when I asked him about what he thought of some of the story elements he had no idea what I was talking about, kinda sad as he missed the best part of the game.

I too like fmv's because they tell the story, and draw you Into the game, If done well It can also make you care for the characters. Even some bad fmv cut scenes are good(ie cheesey resident evil one on the ps1 was so bad It was good when If first came out). All though It can be over done like Xenosaga.

[grapeape]

I too like fmv's because they tell the story, and draw you Into the game, If done well It can also make you care for the characters. Even some bad fmv cut scenes are good(ie cheesey resident evil one on the ps1 was so bad It was good when If first came out). All though It can be over done like Xenosaga.

I guess thats the difference, I play for the experience more than for the challenge. I'll play just about anything if the storyline is good, if its all eyecandy but the story is empty I normally wont play it long at all. That why I didnt get much out of Halo, Resistance or Gear, but loved Mass Effect, Bioshock and Uncharted. :)

[LeGioN1202]

I guess thats the difference, I play for the experience more than for the challenge. I'll play just about anything if the storyline is good, if its all eyecandy but the story is empty I normally wont play it long at all. That why I didnt get much out of Halo, Resistance or Gear, but loved Mass Effect, Bioshock and Uncharted. :)

I could still see Bioshock keeping people on edge without actually reading what is going on, although anyone would strongly advise against it. I love getting lost in Rapture, I take about 1+ hours per area because I love looking around, people were right about the atmosphere thing and I see that now. This was one game my Laptop couldn't handle and I hated it.

Although who knows, maybe just suggest these guys to play arcade shooters like Time Crisis, seems up their ally.

Your an RPG guy, how was Mass Effect? It seemed like a 3rd person shooter from some of the video I saw, so I grabbed Bioshock instead.

[CZroe]

I guess thats the difference, I play for the experience more than for the challenge. I'll play just about anything if the storyline is good, if its all eyecandy but the story is empty I normally wont play it long at all. That why I didnt get much out of Halo, Resistance or Gear, but loved Mass Effect, Bioshock and Uncharted. :)

Resistance easily has as much story as Uncharted... granted, it's harldy original (rip-off of War of the Worlds, Half-Life 2, and others). It's no-where near as bad as, say, TimeShift though, where everything is a blatant rip-off. I probably wouldn't have invested the time to finish it if I weren't renting it due to the fact that it belongs on the PC next to other B-list FPSes, but I'm not sorry I did.

I use "B-list" to refer to the good/passable ones, like STALKER, Serious Sam, Painkiller, and Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. Not crap like Pariah and anything published by Dreamcatcher and not A-List like id, Valve, Monolith, and Epic games.

[put4558350]

Isn't it's gear of war (witch i think it's look better than halo3) & pro evolution soccer (witch not lac on xbox360 @ any resolution) ?

[Ichinisan]

Isn't it's gear of war (witch i think it's look better than halo3) & pro evolution soccer (witch not lac on xbox360 @ any resolution) ?

??? :confused:

[msanchez]

I too like fmv's because they tell the story, and draw you Into the game, If done well It can also make you care for the characters. Even some bad fmv cut scenes are good(ie cheesey resident evil one on the ps1 was so bad It was good when If first came out). All though It can be over done like Xenosaga.

Xenosaga did go overboard on the FMV, but the story is just so damn immense that I don't see how they could have told it without the games being like that. There was something in the gameplay for part I that I seriously didn't like ( I think I was disappointed because I was expecting a more xenogears-ish battle system), so the game was quite tedious, but the story kept me going forward. If they made an anime for part II and III I would probably watch that since I haven't beaten either game, or maybe not, since part I's anime was seriously crippled story wise.

[sneef]

You got any examples, as i dont have this issue on my 360.

then you are freaking amazing. I and ALL my local friends have issues with Mass Effect. I LOVE the game.. it's my favorite (lost odyssey a close second), but the data compression (and necessary decompression during disc read) really fuks up the smoothness of the game.

DVD vs. Blu-ray may not be the REAL issue here, however. A more important issue is the requirement for all 360 developers to program for a system without a hard drive (because there are still people who have either core or arcade systems). This is more of an issue than storage media.

I believe with a hard drive available for cache as well as data installation, Mass Effect could have been a lot smoother.

[lostn]

I wonder why Microsoft didn't mention Blue Dragon (3x DVD9) or Lost Odyssey (4x DVD9).

A 'Blu' Dragon would have fit on one single layer BD25. As would Lost Odyssey when the redundant data is removed.

[zymologist]

Gotta go pick up some chairs, gotta go.

Steve balmer moment (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/05/chair_chucking/)? :P