Is the PlayStation 3 a Trojan horse to help sell Blu-ray films? [Archive]

Zeus

04-02-2007, 11:24 AM

A Sony executive has revealed that if if the Sony camp do a 'good job' in the next six months, then we will no longer be left pondering as to who will win the format war. He even cited the PS3 was going to help them reach their aims and potentially they will have TEN TIMES more Blu-ray players out on the market in the form of the PS3 by the end of the year.

Wood thus sounds confident when he claims: "Blu-ray discs are outselling HD DVD by three to one in the US." And, he adds, "if I do a good job then in six months we won't be having a conversation [about formats]. And the PS3 is going to help us do the job ... Potentially, we'll have 10 times more [Blu-ray] players [in the form of PS3s] out there by the end of the year." Projections for Sony by the research company Understanding & Solutions suggest there will be nearly 4m Blu-ray players (including PS3s) installed across Europe by the end of this year, compared to 55,000 HD DVD players; by the end of 2008, it forecasts 13.45m Blu-ray against 1.6m HD DVD drives (which will by then also include computers). For the US, it predicts a smaller gap - although still running 9 to 1 in favour of Blu-ray.

News Source: <a href="http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,2044593,00.html." target="_blank">Guardian.co.uk</a>

kayjay

04-02-2007, 11:49 AM

PSPWAD

04-02-2007, 11:53 AM

id say the xbox360 is a trojan horse that tries to sell you a non-standard hdd, a non-standard memory unit, a non-standard charger cable and xbox live.

the ps3 has MORE features for the price. the xbox360 is cheap, but its not as cheap as one might think!

the ps3 has the processing power to decode AVC/HD why not use it?
id say the blu-ray feature is a "gift", not a trojan.
This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned.

Back to the topic, it's VERY obvious they used it as a trojan horse, the problem is, that's what they focused on. If they had at least focused on games HALF as much as they focused on selling blu-ray, then the system would be decent...

jotaros

04-02-2007, 11:55 AM

yes but its not that simple for now of course ps3 is a trojan for BD but after when the next format war will finish , wee are going to have the opposite (the BD are going to be a Trojan for ps3)

satel

04-02-2007, 11:56 AM

the xbox360 has 3 red lights of death (sh!te hardware) & the PS3 has top quality hardware ;)

JimmyHACK_KH

04-02-2007, 11:58 AM

i was saying it's a trojan horse for bluray 2 years ago

Dpa

04-02-2007, 12:07 PM

the xbox360 has 3 red lights of death (sh!te hardware) & the PS3 has top quality hardware ;)

Why does every thread have to turn into 360 vs PS3? Both have their good and bad points, only time will show us which is truly better.

And no i dont think PS3 was used just for blu-ray films. Obviously that was a big feature of it but as sony have said themselves the PS3 is intended to be like a home media center which means games, films, music etc.

Turbojugend

04-02-2007, 12:10 PM

Of course it is a trojan horse, release a console with like 2-3 good games, what else do you spend your money on after dropping 700 bones on a system. Smart business move for sure, and once there are some more good games that come out, I'll get one. I do think now though it is a major blow for HD-DVD, which I have believed in since day one, but now I am on the fence.

msanchez

04-02-2007, 12:28 PM

This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned

Why does every thread have to turn into 360 vs PS3? Both have their good and bad points, only time will show us which is truly better....

Thank God! some common sense at last :)

As far as the topic goes, yeah we all know it is. Is that a bad thing? no, not necessarily; if they ramp up the game releases (which I think they are doing) BD playback will fall back to being a nice + feature instead of a system selling feature.

gonepostl

04-02-2007, 12:37 PM

This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned.

Back to the topic, it's VERY obvious they used it as a trojan horse, the problem is, that's what they focused on. If they had at least focused on games HALF as much as they focused on selling blu-ray, then the system would be decent...

Calm down dude. Back to subject.
Simple answer yes. Even better answer, duh.

CZroe

04-02-2007, 12:47 PM

Calm down dude. Back to subject.
Simple answer yes. Even better answer, duh.
Says everything I came here to say.
"Is the PS3 a trojan horse to help sell Blu-Ray?" Duh. Is that a serious question?! It's also the cheapest Blu-Ray player around, so it actually works in reverse a little bit. I never owned a PS2, but I bought the PS3 for Blu-Ray and now I own many PS2 games and rent PS3 games. I laugh when people tell me to my face that no one bought the PS3 for Blu-Ray movies and therefore player sales are irrelevant. HAH!

AceMilo

04-02-2007, 01:08 PM

Sony has repeatedly made it clear that they no longer care about games, they are all about general purpose computing and trying to introduce formats. How many new games have come out on the ps3 since launch? Fight night (old), oblivion (old), motorstorm, and um... well thats about it. Frankly I'm a gamer, and I want a system to play games (strange huh?) which is why I have NO interest in the ps3. I have my 360 and wii and I'm more than happy. There are NO games on the horizon on the ps3 that I want to play, but there are plenty of 360 games I can't wait for. Everyone I know with a ps3, well the 1 person I know that bought one, never plays it and has been trying to sell it since the day he bought it. Everyone else I know that has a 360 loves it, and everyone I know that has played a ps3 has no interest in it since they see how much it looks like a 360 and isn't worth the price.

04-02-2007, 01:21 PM

of course it is, but its probably the smartest thing sony could have done if they wanted bluray to be a success.
I dont blame them really, Id have been happier to buy a PS3 at £150 less if it had just a normal dvdrom in but i would have probably ended up wanting a HD movie player at some point in time and it will be a very long time before they will be £150 for a stand alone.

Section8

04-02-2007, 01:27 PM

spikerules

04-02-2007, 02:35 PM

This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned.

Back to the topic, it's VERY obvious they used it as a trojan horse, the problem is, that's what they focused on. If they had at least focused on games HALF as much as they focused on selling blu-ray, then the system would be decent...

Thats odd... when its he other way around, which it normally always is on this site, we get no posts from mods to this effect? Is that because if you said the same to xbots you'd have to close the site because no one else would visit you? HMMMMMMMMmmmmmMMMMM

Razgrith

04-02-2007, 02:45 PM

Obvious-fecking-ly. Where are the games? Wait. You seriously want me to wait until late 2007 for 2 puny games like MGS4 and Final Fantasy XII? HEEEEELLLLLLOOOOO Sony! Isn't gaming the reason why you called it the Playstation in the first place? *sob sob* Why can't it be like the good old days of the PS1?

madagoknee

04-02-2007, 02:49 PM

smart move to win the format war...bad move to win the console war :confused:

Dpa

04-02-2007, 02:54 PM

2 puny games like MGS4 and Final Fantasy XII?

Puny? Both those games have the power to bring alot of other console fans over to the PS3.

btotheg

04-02-2007, 02:54 PM

People have been saying this for a while, and I don't really see it as news. Of course they were hoping that the PS3's success would lead to domination of the format war. IGN did a piece on this a while ago about Sony's gamble.

msanchez

04-02-2007, 03:14 PM

Says everything I came here to say.
"Is the PS3 a trojan horse to help sell Blu-Ray?" Duh. Is that a serious question?! It's also the cheapest Blu-Ray player around, so it actually works in reverse a little bit. I never owned a PS2, but I bought the PS3 for Blu-Ray and now I own many PS2 games and rent PS3 games. I laugh when people tell me to my face that no one bought the PS3 for Blu-Ray movies and therefore player sales are irrelevant. HAH!

So you bought it for BD playback? well your a small percentage I would think. I don't really mind it having it, but to be honest by the time I start buying BD movies I'll probably have bought a BD player by then.

I've noticed that most people complaining about BD aren't even ps3 owners, with a few exceptions. Most ps3 owners seem to be happy with BD, and there's over 2.8 million (according to some sites), so they can't all be wrong. While some don't see any worthwhile games for the ps3 in the future, as Acemilo said, aside from the new Ninja Gaiden sequel and Blue Dragon the 360 has nothing that appeals to me.

Frankly people need to get stop hating BD so much. First we had some claiming it had no chance of wining the format war... well it's looking more and more like it's only a matter of time before it does, then we had people claiming it had bad quality... I don't hear that after most movies are being encoded with the AVC and VC-1 codecs. So now the only "BAD" thing about BD is that it adds $150 - $200 to the price tag, well for that there is a simple solution.... DON'T BUY A PS3. Some brainiacs may not think that sony execs are smart (they certainly seem stupid), but you've gotta be really closed minded to not admit that their strategy is working. Why do some of us "HATE" a company for trying to make money? I will never understand that, at least I hope I never will.

mtamimi

04-02-2007, 03:32 PM

This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned.

Back to the topic, it's VERY obvious they used it as a trojan horse, the problem is, that's what they focused on. If they had at least focused on games HALF as much as they focused on selling blu-ray, then the system would be decent...

i've been away for long time. Sometning did change??! Or it depends on if a mod like/dislike a console? :) I have many threads that i want them to be deleted.

daps83777

04-02-2007, 03:36 PM

Frankly people need to get stop hating BD so much. First we had some claiming it had no chance of wining the format war... well it's looking more and more like it's only a matter of time before it does, then we had people claiming it had bad quality... I don't hear that after most movies are being encoded with the AVC and VC-1 codecs. So now the only "BAD" thing about BD is that it adds $150 - $200 to the price tag, well for that there is a simple solution.... DON'T BUY A PS3. Some brainiacs may not think that sony execs are smart (they certainly seem stupid), but you've gotta be really closed minded to not admit that their strategy is working. Why do some of us "HATE" a company for trying to make money? I will never understand that, at least I hope I never will.

i don't see it the way most people do. blu ray is fine but most people won't notice hd video quality unless they have a huge hdtv. also people think hdtv's have to be adopted, well i recently found out that at least in the USA, in 2009 they aren't requiring everything to go to digital tv's but to rather get rid of the ntsc analog tuners and go to the atsc digital ones instead. so sdtv's aren't going anywhere so alot of people will buy a few hunder dollar sdtv with digital tuner and be fine with that. it will be like watching a flawless dvd to most people. the adoption rate of actual hdtv's isn't going nearly as well as alot of people would make you think.

so what i am getting at is most people will be satisfied with dvd's they already have, they don't want to re purchase a whole movie collection, and the difference isn't very noticeable unless the hdtv is fairly large, around 50" plus in size. plus personally even if i had a huge hdtv i would rather spend $200 on an oppo upconverting dvd player, i might not barely get to the blu ray quality but i saved hundreds of dollars on the player, and even more money on the fact i don't have to buy my movie collection all over again.

CLShortFuse

04-02-2007, 03:47 PM

I'm getting a PS3 this week, after i check my bank accounts and see how much i can spend. I would like a xbox360 but I can only get one of the two at the moment and i'm mostly getting the ps3 for the blu-ray. netflix ships out blu-ray discs and i think i'll join gamefly for the long drought of ps3 games. i know the xbox360 is the better gaming console, but ps3 is the better package. i bought a 42" 1080p westinghouse last month and i really want HD movie playback. the ps3 will pick up steam, and rumble is coming back. i should wait, but if we've learned anything from the PSP, we want to have the oldest firmware revision for homebrew/iso loading. paradox says their loader works on US consoles already, but aren't releasing it until they get it working for europe.

PSPWAD

04-02-2007, 03:56 PM

i've been away for long time. Sometning did change??! Or it depends on if a mod like/dislike a console? :) I have many threads that i want them to be deleted.
It's not about my likes or dislikes, it's about all the immature users that keep posting in EVERY SINGLE THREAD about the PS3 that the 360 sucks and the PS3 is so much better. It is off topic in this thread and I'm tired of flame wars about it in EVERY thread.

msanchez

04-02-2007, 04:11 PM

i don't see it the way most people do. blu ray is fine but most people won't notice hd video quality unless they have a huge hdtv. also people think hdtv's have to be adopted, well i recently found out that at least in the USA, in 2009 they aren't requiring everything to go to digital tv's but to rather get rid of the ntsc analog tuners and go to the atsc digital ones instead. so sdtv's aren't going anywhere so alot of people will buy a few hunder dollar sdtv with digital tuner and be fine with that. it will be like watching a flawless dvd to most people. the adoption rate of actual hdtv's isn't going nearly as well as alot of people would make you think.

so what i am getting at is most people will be satisfied with dvd's they already have, they don't want to re purchase a whole movie collection, and the difference isn't very noticeable unless the hdtv is fairly large, around 50" plus in size. plus personally even if i had a huge hdtv i would rather spend $200 on an oppo upconverting dvd player, i might not barely get to the blu ray quality but i saved hundreds of dollars on the player, and even more money on the fact i don't have to buy my movie collection all over again.

Well I'm not saying that BD is going to erase DVD of the face of the earth anytime soon, but eventually one of them (BD or HD-DVD) will. What I'm trying to say is that people hate the format with a passion and that's just stupid, while some won't pay the $$ for these things others will. I bought a $700 phone, sure some people will think I'm crazy and they believe that they can get the same out of a $250 phone. No one is right or wrong in their decision, we all buy what we think is right for us. The fact that there are things that don't appeal to us doesn't make them bad. I would buy a ps3 for it's gaming capabilities and dish out the $600 without giving it a second though, on the other hand, I won't part with $300 for any movie player, be it BD or HD-DVD. Using the same example other people will spend $1200 on a BD player and won't buy a wii for $250 (of course there's apparently WAAAAYYYYY more people willing to buy the wii :p)

Oh and as far as HDTV's adoption rate it can only grow, SDTVs aren't even common when you go to a store anymore. All you see are HDTV's and you can get 'em rather cheap now. Are they even manufacturing SDTVs anymore? We can agree that most, if not everyone, that buys a TV nowadays buys an HDTV, and true that there's no big difference on anything under 50" (I would go as far as saying 65"). While you and me and a whole lot of people don't think that buying a BD or HD-DVD movie is appropriate, there's others that will. My brother wants to buy a ps3, he's waiting for me to take the plunge first, after he buys it I can guarantee to you that he will never buy a DVD movie ever. Anyways quality is the least important factor to HDTV sells, 1ups-manship and showing off are probably the #1 factor....... and good luck trying to control that.

It's not about my likes or dislikes, it's about all the immature users that keep posting in EVERY SINGLE THREAD about the PS3 that the 360 sucks and the PS3 is so much better. It is off topic in this thread and I'm tired of flame wars about it in EVERY thread.

Even though I agree with your earlier post, in this post you clearly show what the problem that some are having is, it seems to me that your problem is not the flamewars, but the 360 bashing. By what you said it would be totally ok for the ps3 to get bashed to hell and back in a 360 thread. That doesn't seem right.

indierocker

04-02-2007, 04:15 PM

how do they consider having 5 times as much players out there, but yet only 2 times as much software sales a good thing....that means that a lot of blu-ray owners don't even care to buy that much software....if film studios were smart, they would go with HD-DVD, as it's owners are actually buying movies, which is what will happen in the end....Sony is dreaming if they are going to win this thing with only 40% of their install base accounting for the amount of software sales they have when compared to that of HD-DVD

PSPWAD

04-02-2007, 04:19 PM

Even though I agree with your earlier post, in this post you clearly show what the problem that some are having is, it seems to me that your problem is not the flamewars, but the 360 bashing. By what you said it would be totally ok for the ps3 to get bashed to hell and back in a 360 thread. That doesn't seem right.
The problem is flame wars, as 360 users will see this and reply. As for the PS3 getting bashed, I'm sick of that happening in every thread too (where it doesn't apply). In threads such as ones about the elite, the PS3 is fair game being it is a direct comparison of the two. Topics like this however is about WHY Blu-ray was included in the PS3, not why the 360 red lights. Get the picture?

Trashcat

04-02-2007, 04:23 PM

id say the blu-ray feature is a "gift", not a trojan.
Your definition of "gift" is something you pay 200$ for? Make that something you don't want that you have to pay 200$ for because it is attached to something you want.

eggroll

04-02-2007, 04:29 PM

note: most of the well respected, insightful, regular posters are all saying the same thing. its only the asshats who fan the flames with the contrary. is anyone really arguing that sony included blu-ray in the ps3 for the benefit of its selection of games? if not, stfu

Reset

04-02-2007, 04:35 PM

The problem is flame wars, as 360 users will see this and reply. As for the PS3 getting bashed, I'm sick of that happening in every thread too (where it doesn't apply). In threads such as ones about the elite, the PS3 is fair game being it is a direct comparison of the two. Topics like this however is about WHY Blu-ray was included in the PS3, not why the 360 red lights. Get the picture?
dont worry pspwad, I know ur unbiased and just want things to stay on topic, since even if the topics about myamoto makes a new wii game, the frist post is 360 sucks or ps3 sucks, or 360 owns wii or ps3 owns wii, when that is not what the story is about. there are plenty of threads that it makes sense to argue that, but it seems ppl just want to have there latest flame on the latest thread no matter what the topic.

its funny ppl dont even realize ur name is PSPwad when they say u bash sony lol. ur name is based on a sony product and they still think ur an xbot, that is hilarious to me.

hey ppl, guess what. this isnt an ms, sony, or wii site, pspwad is getting pissed for the same reason as many others, that we cant even have a conversation about a topic for more than 2 posts before some troll comes along. no matter what system.

If you think maxconsole promotes one system over any other, your a fanboy of somehthing and only see what u want. or what u dont like.

Id be very happy if Max console started deleting troll posts, and obviously off topic posts. the forums might become readable again like it was before.

do ppl that think this is an MS site realize Max console grew huge amounts of users from the psp and the fact that maxconsole had the best hack information and things for psp. why on earth would they think its an MS site, when they signed up to hack there psp.

daps83777

04-02-2007, 04:39 PM

Oh and as far as HDTV's adoption rate it can only grow, SDTVs aren't even common when you go to a store anymore. All you see are HDTV's and you can get 'em rather cheap now. Are they even manufacturing SDTVs anymore? We can agree that most, if not everyone, that buys a TV nowadays buys an HDTV, and true that there's no big difference on anything under 50" (I would go as far as saying 65"). While you and me and a whole lot of people don't think that buying a BD or HD-DVD movie is appropriate, there's others that will. My brother wants to buy a ps3, he's waiting for me to take the plunge first, after he buys it I can guarantee to you that he will never buy a DVD movie ever. Anyways quality is the least important factor to HDTV sells, 1ups-manship and showing off are probably the #1 factor....... and good luck trying to control that.

there are alot of sdtv's still being made and you can get them with atsc tuners and get all the digital channels for super cheap. i have seen 27" sdtv's with flat screens and atsc digital tuners for $200.

in the USA everyone thought everything was going completely digital as far as the actual tv's went, but as i have researched it i have found that in 2009 all that is being required is every tv have a digital atsc tuner in it. so hdtv's won't necessarily get adopted as fast as some think, alot of people believed that in 2009 you would have to buy an hdtv, but that is not the case.

also the adoption rate is going so slow that this is the third of fourth time the year had been pushed back and many believe that 2009 will not happen and it will get pushed back at least another year or so in the USA. the adoption of digital just isn't going as fast as people expected.

also dvd will stay around for a long time, people where fed up with vhs because it was so aweful, that is not the case right now, almost everyone is content with dvd and they aren't going to pay a ton more money to re purchase there movie collections or buy a super expensive hd movie player. just because better formats came out doesn't mean anything, if it did then laser disc would have won when it came out.

keyrat

04-02-2007, 04:50 PM

"Trojan" implies that it's a feature I didn't want. Of course I wanted it, it's one of the reasons I picked the PS3 over the 360.

Havok154

04-02-2007, 04:53 PM

Is the PS3 a trojan horse?

My response: "Is the sky blue?"

Also, it's good to see a mod actually attempting to mod this site finally. It's been getting out of hand and honestly, this place gets pretty irritating, having to put up with people trying to start flame wars, making fun of sh*t that doesn't even have to do with the topic, etc.

kayjay

04-02-2007, 04:57 PM

Your definition of "gift" is something you pay 200$ for? Make that something you don't want that you have to pay 200$ for because it is attached to something you want.

ACTUALLY youre paying 200 usd for the following features that the xbox360 does not come standard with:
rechargable joypad, much bigger hdd, hdmi, linux, support for standard memory cards, bluray, etc.

Reset

04-02-2007, 05:02 PM

ACTUALLY youre paying 200 usd for the following features that the xbox360 does not come standard with:
rechargable joypad, much bigger hdd, hdmi, linux, support for standard memory cards, bluray, etc.

yeah but the one even sony said is costing u 200 bucs is the blu-ray, I think ppl would be really happy with all those other features u mentioned, but they arent the reason it cost 200 more bucs than xbox. and ur right, if it was the same price as an xbox, Id be saying MS is lacking in features, but none of those features u mentioned are worth 200 dollars to me. including blue-ray

"Trojan" implies that it's a feature I didn't want. Of course I wanted it, it's one of the reasons I picked the PS3 over the 360.
very good point, A trojan is really something that is hidden within a gift (or something u want) that causes some kind of grief or problem.

the blu-ray player isnt hidden at all, so it cant be a trojan in that sense alone. Im sure there is a better word for what ppl are calling a trojan horse.
I personally call it getting kicked in the balls. but thats just me.;)

daps83777

04-02-2007, 05:13 PM

the problem with the PS3 having the blu ray drive, is even if blu ray does beat out hd-dvd by the time it happens blu ray players will be cheaper, and more than likely they will kick the crap out of the blu ray drive in the PS3. so unless you like to adopt every kind of technology and pay a price premium then i don't really see the advantage. you are paying at least $200 according to sony, if not more for the PS3's blu ray drive.

and my local best buy has maybe 20 blu ray movies total in stock, compared to the thousands of dvd's. so to me it seems like a ripoff, because even if blu ray takes off, by the time it does the player in the PS3 will be very outdated.

Scorpion3

04-02-2007, 05:16 PM

Why does every thread have to turn into 360 vs PS3? Both have their good and bad points, only time will show us which is truly better.

And no i dont think PS3 was used just for blu-ray films. Obviously that was a big feature of it but as sony have said themselves the PS3 is intended to be like a home media center which means games, films, music etc.

I've been asking myself this for a long, long time. It's like some people can't stay on topic, and then when they go off on their fanboy rants I feel obligated to retort and then try and get the thread back on track.

Calm down dude. Back to subject.
Simple answer yes. Even better answer, duh.

Well, I can understand where he's coming from, and you said it perfectly. But you would expect that from any company that wishes to push their format, it's just too bad it has to be a gameconsole Sony decided to use. It should have been one of their TVs, if not all of them. That'd be awesome.

Thats odd... when its he other way around, which it normally always is on this site, we get no posts from mods to this effect? Is that because if you said the same to xbots you'd have to close the site because no one else would visit you? HMMMMMMMMmmmmmMMMMM

God I hope you're banned. lol

The problem is flame wars, as 360 users will see this and reply. As for the PS3 getting bashed, I'm sick of that happening in every thread too (where it doesn't apply). In threads such as ones about the elite, the PS3 is fair game being it is a direct comparison of the two. Topics like this however is about WHY Blu-ray was included in the PS3, not why the 360 red lights. Get the picture?

Which is we need more mods like you. People like satel and that Spikerules guy don't do anything but try and turn every single thread around onto the faults of the 360 and then we have people like that Raz guy up there who comes in every so often and bashes the PS3. It's really getting old, don't get me wrong, I do my share of debating but I don't bash the PS3 up and down just because I can.

dont worry pspwad, I know ur unbiased and just want things to stay on topic, since even if the topics about myamoto makes a new wii game, the frist post is 360 sucks or ps3 sucks, or 360 owns wii or ps3 owns wii, when that is not what the story is about. there are plenty of threads that it makes sense to argue that, but it seems ppl just want to have there latest flame on the latest thread no matter what the topic.

its funny ppl dont even realize ur name is PSPwad when they say u bash sony lol. ur name is based on a sony product and they still think ur an xbot, that is hilarious to me.

hey ppl, guess what. this isnt an ms, sony, or wii site, pspwad is getting pissed for the same reason as many others, that we cant even have a conversation about a topic for more than 2 posts before some troll comes along. no matter what system.

If you think maxconsole promotes one system over any other, your a fanboy of somehthing and only see what u want. or what u dont like.

Id be very happy if Max console started deleting troll posts, and obviously off topic posts. the forums might become readable again like it was before.

do ppl that think this is an MS site realize Max console grew huge amounts of users from the psp and the fact that maxconsole had the best hack information and things for psp. why on earth would they think its an MS site, when they signed up to hack there psp.

Thoughts into words...very well put.

As for the subject of BD and hating on it or whatnot, I really don't care about BD. Not that I just don't like it, but just like HD-DVD, I don't care to buy it. No favor to one or the other, just favor to standard DVD. When there was VHS, there NEEDED to be an upgrade, here with the new format war, there doesn't need to be one just yet. Especially since Holograph DVDs (Don't laugh, they're real) can hold more then 3 BD 100GB discs, and that's only 1 layer. So if one wins, it's only going to win for 3 or 4 years anyway. Who cares? When Holograph DVDs come out to the mainstream, then I'll upgrade to a new format.

hurtween

04-02-2007, 05:41 PM

Sony is using the PS3 as their Blu-Ray Trojan horse?

Uhhhh, ya think?

msanchez

04-02-2007, 05:55 PM

sigma8

04-02-2007, 05:58 PM

Scorpion3

04-02-2007, 06:15 PM

I don't know. Is the PS3 a trojan horse for Blu-ray? Or is blu-ray a trojan horse for the PS3?

Due to the technological superiority of the format, a lot o tech heads favor blu-ray already. The fact that the PS3 has it for cheap is often an incentive for them to buy the PS3.

For me, I didn't get a blu-ray player because I bought a PS3. I got a PS3 because I bought a blu-ray player. Same for a friend of mine.

Of course, earlier I'd buy a PS3 for the BD for sure, but now that BD players are down to 600 bucks as well (Sony dropped the price of the Standalone player by 400 bucks or so a couple weeks ago), I would have to think it over whether or not I'd buy a PS3. Most people would say "But with the PS3, you could also play games." but A. I can't stand the SIXAXIS and need rumble and B. when they added rumble into the controller, it's most likely going to be the banana controller again. I owned a Baracuda for the PSX, and it was hard as hell to use, I don't want to go through that again. lol

IJTF_Cinder

04-02-2007, 06:21 PM

Doesn't help when it's a trojan horse I won't let into my living room. I don't want Blu-Ray, and I'm not going to pay for it. If they had focused on gaming more, and HD Movies less...and the price reflected that, they'd be where they were expected to be in sales.

sigma8

04-02-2007, 06:33 PM

Of course, earlier I'd buy a PS3 for the BD for sure, but now that BD players are down to 600 bucks as well (Sony dropped the price of the Standalone player by 400 bucks or so a couple weeks ago), I would have to think it over whether or not I'd buy a PS3.
If the video quality of the dedicated BD player was superior, I could see this. Otherwise, you're losing a lot of functionality for the same amount of money.

Most people would say "But with the PS3, you could also play games." but A. I can't stand the SIXAXIS and need rumble and B. when they added rumble into the controller, it's most likely going to be the banana controller again. I owned a Baracuda for the PSX, and it was hard as hell to use, I don't want to go through that again. lol

First of all, it will probably not be a batarang/banana.. Secondly, rumble is gimmickier than every "it's a gimmick" claim every levied against the Wii.. Unlike motion sensing, it adds nothing to the gameplay. Its ability to increase the immersion is debatable at best. IMO "no rumble" just became a rallying cry of anti-PS3/Sony fanboys to make fun of Sony. For no real reason other than "have" versus "have not". Of course, they concocted a bunch of hairbrained non-explainable reasons...because rumble is poorly implemented in 95% of games, and in the 5% where it's implemented decently, it's almost so subtle you don't really notice it.

msanchez

04-02-2007, 07:04 PM

....when they added rumble into the controller, it's most likely going to be the banana controller again. I owned a Baracuda for the PSX, and it was hard as hell to use, I don't want to go through that again. lol

Wash your mouth!!! stop talking about that horrible thing. I would hope they publicly neutered whoever designed that nightmarish atrocity (ok maybe not that much, but seriously the thing was ugly)

mtamimi

04-02-2007, 07:07 PM

It's not about my likes or dislikes, it's about all the immature users that keep posting in EVERY SINGLE THREAD about the PS3 that the 360 sucks and the PS3 is so much better. It is off topic in this thread and I'm tired of flame wars about it in EVERY thread.

Where have you been the past two years when every 360 thread was used to attack Sony???!!!! I want this *alleged* *fair* rule being implemented in every thread. Or even better, hire a PS3 user and let him do the job. If we want x360 only threads, we will go to that scene site; we are here hoping to see a better place for all the consoles.

This will be my last reply in this thread, enjoy your time.

xllzerollx

04-02-2007, 07:53 PM

talk about pointless thread,
and then talk about obvius questions.....

Scorpion3

04-02-2007, 07:55 PM

First of all, it will probably not be a batarang/banana.. Secondly, rumble is gimmickier than every "it's a gimmick" claim every levied against the Wii.. Unlike motion sensing, it adds nothing to the gameplay. Its ability to increase the immersion is debatable at best. IMO "no rumble" just became a rallying cry of anti-PS3/Sony fanboys to make fun of Sony. For no real reason other than "have" versus "have not". Of course, they concocted a bunch of hairbrained non-explainable reasons...because rumble is poorly implemented in 95% of games, and in the 5% where it's implemented decently, it's almost so subtle you don't really notice it.

First of all to YOU, I've read statements by Sony that the only reason they ditched the Boomerang Controller was because of no rumble, not because the fans didn't like it. Since they now have rumble, they could still want that type of controller.

Second, I don't know how you can say that. Rumble is crap, but force feedback is what you get in the 360/Wii controllers. Rumble is what you got in N64 and Dual Shock 1. Force Feedback or the new Rumble is as innovative and necissary as the Analog stick. And that's your oppinion, and I'm sure that's true to a lot of fanboys, but I just HAVE to have it. Unless it's a 2D game, it should have Feedback of some kind. And aparently you don't have a 360, I couldn't see playing Gears or Lost Planet without force feedback, it'd just take you far out of the game. You wouldn't feel like crap is blowing up around you in any way aside from visual. No offense, but you need to stop playing your PS3 and try and Wii or 360 for awhile, then your oppinion may be ripe for change.

Wash your mouth!!! stop talking about that horrible thing. I would hope they publicly neutered whoever designed that nightmarish atrocity (ok maybe not that much, but seriously the thing was ugly)

Which one, the Banana or Baracuda?

Ubertraka

04-02-2007, 08:10 PM

First of all to YOU, I've read statements by Sony that the only reason they ditched the Boomerang Controller was because of no rumble, not because the fans didn't like it. Since they now have rumble, they could still want that type of controller.

Second, I don't know how you can say that. Rumble is crap, but force feedback is what you get in the 360/Wii controllers. Rumble is what you got in N64 and Dual Shock 1. Force Feedback or the new Rumble is as innovative and necissary as the Analog stick. And that's your oppinion, and I'm sure that's true to a lot of fanboys, but I just HAVE to have it. Unless it's a 2D game, it should have Feedback of some kind. And aparently you don't have a 360, I couldn't see playing Gears or Lost Planet without force feedback, it'd just take you far out of the game. You wouldn't feel like crap is blowing up around you in any way aside from visual. No offense, but you need to stop playing your PS3 and try and Wii or 360 for awhile, then your oppinion may be ripe for change.

Which one, the Banana or Baracuda?

I come to this thread late in its life, but not late enough to tell everyone to stfu.

STFU everyone. You bunch of schoolgirl pansies...

rivera_129

04-02-2007, 08:10 PM

Hire me :cool:

btotheg

04-02-2007, 08:22 PM

First of all to YOU, I've read statements by Sony that the only reason they ditched the Boomerang Controller was because of no rumble, not because the fans didn't like it. Since they now have rumble, they could still want that type of controller.

Second, I don't know how you can say that. Rumble is crap, but force feedback is what you get in the 360/Wii controllers. Rumble is what you got in N64 and Dual Shock 1. Force Feedback or the new Rumble is as innovative and necissary as the Analog stick. And that's your oppinion, and I'm sure that's true to a lot of fanboys, but I just HAVE to have it. Unless it's a 2D game, it should have Feedback of some kind. And aparently you don't have a 360, I couldn't see playing Gears or Lost Planet without force feedback, it'd just take you far out of the game. You wouldn't feel like crap is blowing up around you in any way aside from visual. No offense, but you need to stop playing your PS3 and try and Wii or 360 for awhile, then your oppinion may be ripe for change.

Which one, the Banana or Baracuda?

Damn, I had a whole response written up but then I re-read your comment and I see that I actually misread it and agree somewhat. Rumble isn't necessary but it's defiantly a nice feature that can add to some games but in others it can just get annoying, especially when you bust up the rumble motor on a ps2 controller while not being so gentle with it...

Also for those wondering about whether trojan is the right term or not may have a point but I don't think that it can really be argued that Sony isn't at least trying to piggyback blu-ray on PS3. It has SOME uses for gaming but is far from essential to the gaming portion of what the PS3 offers.

kaoken

04-02-2007, 09:22 PM

This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned.

Back to the topic, it's VERY obvious they used it as a trojan horse, the problem is, that's what they focused on. If they had at least focused on games HALF as much as they focused on selling blu-ray, then the system would be decent...

Trojan horse seems harsh don't you think. (A bit biased if you ask me). And Sony doesn't make the majority of games...3rd party developers do.

gonepostl

04-02-2007, 09:54 PM

Scorpion3

04-02-2007, 10:15 PM

This whole quote is pure slander and based off your own perception which I don't feel is fair. Please try to at least pull some quotes because I haven't heard them say this yet (even though it may be true). And to all your friends with the 360 I'm sure they are having a blast. Until they put in graw 2 and it crashes their system. Too easy dude.

You're right about his post, I think he's one of the ocassional 360 fanboys who blow through here. But you're wrong about GRAW2, it only freezes consoles and it's for all the consoles it was released on, not just the 360.

Damn, I had a whole response written up but then I re-read your comment and I see that I actually misread it and agree somewhat. Rumble isn't necessary but it's defiantly a nice feature that can add to some games but in others it can just get annoying, especially when you bust up the rumble motor on a ps2 controller while not being so gentle with it...

Ubertraka, WTF? If you don't like the thread, stay out of it?

Also for those wondering about whether trojan is the right term or not may have a point but I don't think that it can really be argued that Sony isn't at least trying to piggyback blu-ray on PS3. It has SOME uses for gaming but is far from essential to the gaming portion of what the PS3 offers.

lol. I'm glad that I made a good point then. And I was starting to wonder if some people didn't understand what the phrase meant either, like Ubertraka, he's probably a Sony fanboy and thought it meant that BD is a virus to the PS3. Since the PS3 could have gone without BD, I suppose it could be seen as a Virus since it hacked the price up, but still, that's not what it means.

SSChevy2001

04-02-2007, 11:08 PM

No the PS3 is not a trojan horse.

Trojan horse tactics are those considered sneaky, underhand, deceitful.Everyone know that Sony put Blu-ray in the PS3 to sell movies, so that can't be consider sneaky or deceitful.

Was this thread really needed?

Edit This was taken right from ps3.com.

The built-in Blu-ray Disc™ player means you can enjoy next-generation high-definition entertainment, including games and movies. Sony has always stated that the built-in player was for movies and games. For me to see this a a trojan house tactics, Sony would of have to first sell the PS3 without movie support and then with a firmware update ad support.

dargalia

04-02-2007, 11:11 PM

Is the wii a gamecube with a wiimote?

CZroe

04-02-2007, 11:16 PM

Sony has repeatedly made it clear that they no longer care about games, they are all about general purpose computing and trying to introduce formats...
Uh, yeah. That's why they entered the game market too. They wanted a controlling interest in a game format. That's why Micrsoft did it too. I mean, they make games for Windows, but MS doesn't get paid for every game made for Windows like they do on the XBOX. They saw what Nintendo and Sony were doing and they wanted a piece.

Blu-Ray is more important to Sony than the game market. They can't afford to lose it, therefore they won't. They could give the current players away and it would eventually pay off because they'd be making money off of every high-def movie sold if the format won, but it's just an expense they couldn't justify (or sustain).

So you bought it for BD playback? well your a small percentage I would think. I don't really mind it having it, but to be honest by the time I start buying BD movies I'll probably have bought a BD player by then.

I've noticed that most people complaining about BD aren't even ps3 owners, with a few exceptions. Most ps3 owners seem to be happy with BD, and there's over 2.8 million (according to some sites), so they can't all be wrong. While some don't see any worthwhile games for the ps3 in the future, as Acemilo said, aside from the new Ninja Gaiden sequel and Blue Dragon the 360 has nothing that appeals to me.

Frankly people need to get stop hating BD so much. First we had some claiming it had no chance of wining the format war... well it's looking more and more like it's only a matter of time before it does, then we had people claiming it had bad quality... I don't hear that after most movies are being encoded with the AVC and VC-1 codecs. So now the only "BAD" thing about BD is that it adds $150 - $200 to the price tag, well for that there is a simple solution.... DON'T BUY A PS3. Some brainiacs may not think that sony execs are smart (they certainly seem stupid), but you've gotta be really closed minded to not admit that their strategy is working. Why do some of us "HATE" a company for trying to make money? I will never understand that, at least I hope I never will.
Those first people were short-sighted. The PS3 would be guaranteed to sell millions even in last place and that is a lead that HD-DVD just can't topple. It's nothing like UMD movies. It's nothing like Beta vs. VHS. The PS3 equivalent "format vehicle" didn't exist in the 80's.

there are alot of sdtv's still being made and you can get them with atsc tuners and get all the digital channels for super cheap. i have seen 27" sdtv's with flat screens and atsc digital tuners for $200.

in the USA everyone thought everything was going completely digital as far as the actual tv's went, but as i have researched it i have found that in 2009 all that is being required is every tv have a digital atsc tuner in it. so hdtv's won't necessarily get adopted as fast as some think, alot of people believed that in 2009 you would have to buy an hdtv, but that is not the case.

also the adoption rate is going so slow that this is the third of fourth time the year had been pushed back and many believe that 2009 will not happen and it will get pushed back at least another year or so in the USA. the adoption of digital just isn't going as fast as people expected.

also dvd will stay around for a long time, people where fed up with vhs because it was so aweful, that is not the case right now, almost everyone is content with dvd and they aren't going to pay a ton more money to re purchase there movie collections or buy a super expensive hd movie player. just because better formats came out doesn't mean anything, if it did then laser disc would have won when it came out.
Just like BD's biggest competitor will be DVD, it will also be forced to coexist with it, not replace it. This means that there will be no requirement that you repurchase your movies. In fact, part of the BD spec is that ALL players support DVD upscaling, so unless they revise this, DVD will be around for a loooong time. Rather than choosing between a single-disc and a 2-disc collector's edition for any given movie, you'll choose between the DVD or the premium BD + extras... unless they want to rush acceptance by charging less than DVDs. ;)

laesperanzapaz

04-02-2007, 11:46 PM

bluray is trojan horse indeed. ps3 is a BD player with gaming tacked on....for the offensive price of 600 bucks [more in the european states]

sigma8

04-03-2007, 12:56 AM

First of all to YOU, I've read statements by Sony that the only reason they ditched the Boomerang Controller was because of no rumble, not because the fans didn't like it. Since they now have rumble, they could still want that type of controller.Well, they aren't known for being completely forthcoming about their controller issues. That excuse lacks merit. Are they trying to say the batarang controller couldn't exist with less components inside of it? They obviously ditched it because of the backlash. Also, someone must have told them that "pssst, if we use the spiderman font, we shouldn't make our controller look like batman's boomerang"

Second, I don't know how you can say that. Rumble is crap, but force feedback is what you get in the 360/Wii controllers. Rumble is what you got in N64 and Dual Shock 1. Force Feedback or the new Rumble is as innovative and necissary as the Analog stick.

Necessary how? Tell me what it allows you to do. Does it allow you to reload? Does it allow you to aim? To shoot? Also, it's not force feedback. It's rumble. I don't know exactly how you think it's different that you can dress it up like that. If you want to try a real force feedback controller, try to locate one of those force feedback logitech sidewinders and find some flight game that actually supports it. The stick WILL FIGHT AGAINST YOU.

360 and Wii controllers just give you a little shakey in your handeys. That's not force feedback. And FYI, I have the Wii...as well as FOUR of those wiimotes, so I know what it feels like. I have also tried out the 360 an ample occasion, although I do not yet own one.

I'm not going to say "Noooo! Keep rumble away from me!" it's fun. It's a "neat trick" for the first time you feel it, and then you ignore it for the rest of the game as you focus on what you're actually doing.

And that's your oppinion, and I'm sure that's true to a lot of fanboys, but I just HAVE to have it.

You can call me an PS3/anti-rumble army fanboy member if you want. However, when Nintendo released its wireless wavebird controller for the GC, I had a choice of using a nice wireless controller, or giving up a competent rumble in the GC controller. It was a no brainer. Wireless won. And I didn't miss rumble ONE BIT. If and when the PS3 gets rumble, I will still poke vicious fun at the crappy use of rumble in games, and continue to ask if it's even possible to put to good use besides a couple parlor tricks, like Psycho Mantis moving your controller on the table. Which BTW is the ultimate gimmick. You see it once, you are amazed. After that, you are no longer amazed.

Unless it's a 2D game, it should have Feedback of some kind. And aparently you don't have a 360, I couldn't see playing Gears or Lost Planet without force feedback, it'd just take you far out of the game. You wouldn't feel like crap is blowing up around you in any way aside from visual. No offense, but you need to stop playing your PS3 and try and Wii or 360 for awhile, then your oppinion may be ripe for change.
No offense, but are you visually impaired? I can get quite involved in the game without a little drum spinning in circles inside my controller that exerts a force equivalent to about 5 jawbreakers dropped onto my hand. If I really need more "stimuli" I'll turn up my stereo. The subwoofer does much better "rumble".

Back to what you said about force-feedback. There is only one thing I've seen that remotely resembles force feedback...and that is using the Wii remote on the main menu screen. It happens when you wave the pointer across the channels (or any button) and anytime you hit a button border, you feel a slight "bump", caused by the rumble...which gives the screen a sense of texture.

The 360 is incapable of anything like that, since you don't get "feedback" by moving the controller. The controller has no way to sense its own movement. It would be force feedback if games could actually make the analog stick itself shake or fight against you. As it is, it's just a cause-effect rumble... It's like the difference between moving a "stuck" lever, and having the lever itself tangibly "click" when you get it past the difficult part...versus wearing a wriststrap that "clicks" as you effortlessly push the lever past a certain point.

Anyway, I think force feedback in that sense, would be valuable in some cases.. however, the possibilities with it only being rumble, even on the Wii, are very limited.

Another disadvantage for rumble, is that no dev seems to require it. Cames COULD need rumble if some puzzles required it. Like if some game used the controller as a geiger counter for detect radioactive bad guys, and there was no corresponding on-screen sound or visual cue.

As it stands, rumble is not useful. You can turn it off. It's a preference. Try turning it off and playing a GoW online match, and seeing if you really care after 30 minutes. I know you still will, just to prove me wrong..but go ahead.

DEDDOA

04-03-2007, 01:16 AM

Yes blu-ray is a "Trojan Horse" of sorts, but then we all know that.

One thing that did suddenly click for me is just how much focus Sony has put on Blu-ray in the PS3. I was nosing through another site when I saw the Sony comment on the 360 Elite, saying in not so many words that they had always been the leader in pushing HD. It suddenly occured to me that there were several things in the PS3 design that are there only for Blu-ray and not for games. HDMI is the main one, don't get me wrong HDMI is nice, but the PS3 had to have HDMI, no if no but's it was not an option, so all this spin they give on how they are giving people what they want is just spin. Without HDMI they would not be able to incorporate the movie protection (whatever it is called), and so considering the PS3 will be the main blu-ray player for some time, without it they would loose film studio support. The games would play fine with component, DVD's would play fine but that security issue for blu-ray movies would be out the window as it were. Then there is also the standard, 1.3 over 1.2. True enough that it's always nicer to have the newest standard, but for games 1.2 is more than good enough. So why 1.3, for Blu-ray movie playback is why. All the extra's that 1.3 adds are of no real use to games, but for movies they are of a lot of use.

So yeah, blu-ray is a trojan horse you could say, but the likes of HDMI, specifically the 1.3 standard, are much the same, as in they are not there for games. Blu-ray and HDMI (especially 1.3) were not needed for this generation of consoles, even though they are nice, both in terms of the PS3 are there to help push a format, no ifs no buts in my opinion.

I can sort of see now why they are so stuck on no price reductions, you have a full spec Blu-ray player stuck on a high spec games console. If they had skimped on components then the Blu-ray experience most people will get (as it will no doubt be via PS3 as opposed to a standalone) would be diminished and so put a negative slant on the format. The price still sucks tho for a games console, even if what it gets you is a bargain if thats what you want.

One other thing, sigma8 is right about it being rumble not force feedback, joysticks like the great MS sidewinder force feedback had as the name says, force feedback. The stick would move or pull against you depending on what you were playing. Mech warrior always sprigs to mind as ths stick would move left and right while walking making you have to compensate to fire accurately, so adding an extra level of interactivity to the game. I'd have no problems paying if MS were to release a stick like this for the 360 (it would work on the PC as well which would be my real reason for wanting them). But back to point, joypad rumble would be more acurately called tactile feedback, and I will have to say that it adds a lot to games. It adds an extra level of immerssion to a game and when used well can actually be a used as part of the game it's self.

PSPWAD

04-03-2007, 02:45 AM

Scorpion3

04-03-2007, 04:40 AM

Well, they aren't known for being completely forthcoming about their controller issues. That excuse lacks merit. Are they trying to say the batarang controller couldn't exist with less components inside of it? They obviously ditched it because of the backlash. Also, someone must have told them that "pssst, if we use the spiderman font, we shouldn't make our controller look like batman's boomerang"

Necessary how? Tell me what it allows you to do. Does it allow you to reload? Does it allow you to aim? To shoot? Also, it's not force feedback. It's rumble. I don't know exactly how you think it's different that you can dress it up like that. If you want to try a real force feedback controller, try to locate one of those force feedback logitech sidewinders and find some flight game that actually supports it. The stick WILL FIGHT AGAINST YOU.

360 and Wii controllers just give you a little shakey in your handeys. That's not force feedback. And FYI, I have the Wii...as well as FOUR of those wiimotes, so I know what it feels like. I have also tried out the 360 an ample occasion, although I do not yet own one.

I'm not going to say "Noooo! Keep rumble away from me!" it's fun. It's a "neat trick" for the first time you feel it, and then you ignore it for the rest of the game as you focus on what you're actually doing.

You can call me an PS3/anti-rumble army fanboy member if you want. However, when Nintendo released its wireless wavebird controller for the GC, I had a choice of using a nice wireless controller, or giving up a competent rumble in the GC controller. It was a no brainer. Wireless won. And I didn't miss rumble ONE BIT. If and when the PS3 gets rumble, I will still poke vicious fun at the crappy use of rumble in games, and continue to ask if it's even possible to put to good use besides a couple parlor tricks, like Psycho Mantis moving your controller on the table. Which BTW is the ultimate gimmick. You see it once, you are amazed. After that, you are no longer amazed.

No offense, but are you visually impaired? I can get quite involved in the game without a little drum spinning in circles inside my controller that exerts a force equivalent to about 5 jawbreakers dropped onto my hand. If I really need more "stimuli" I'll turn up my stereo. The subwoofer does much better "rumble".

Back to what you said about force-feedback. There is only one thing I've seen that remotely resembles force feedback...and that is using the Wii remote on the main menu screen. It happens when you wave the pointer across the channels (or any button) and anytime you hit a button border, you feel a slight "bump", caused by the rumble...which gives the screen a sense of texture.

The 360 is incapable of anything like that, since you don't get "feedback" by moving the controller. The controller has no way to sense its own movement. It would be force feedback if games could actually make the analog stick itself shake or fight against you. As it is, it's just a cause-effect rumble... It's like the difference between moving a "stuck" lever, and having the lever itself tangibly "click" when you get it past the difficult part...versus wearing a wriststrap that "clicks" as you effortlessly push the lever past a certain point.

Anyway, I think force feedback in that sense, would be valuable in some cases.. however, the possibilities with it only being rumble, even on the Wii, are very limited.

Another disadvantage for rumble, is that no dev seems to require it. Cames COULD need rumble if some puzzles required it. Like if some game used the controller as a geiger counter for detect radioactive bad guys, and there was no corresponding on-screen sound or visual cue.

As it stands, rumble is not useful. You can turn it off. It's a preference. Try turning it off and playing a GoW online match, and seeing if you really care after 30 minutes. I know you still will, just to prove me wrong..but go ahead.

That post was a little excesive, wasn't it? lol But anyway...

A. I never said it allowed you to do anything, it doesn't innovate games whatsoever and anyone that knows anything about gaming could tell you that. But it doesn't mean that it's not a good thing to have in your games.

B. Force Feedback is just a nickname for updated Rumble in the vocab of a lot of game devs. So because of them calling it that, it's what I call it, you also here it called Vibration Feedback. In other words, feedback means a variety of things, not just a change in the gameplay though Rumble does do that in a way, this statement unfortunatly answers most of your post. Now then, what games, besides the RE games (Which weren't good for rumble anyway), on the GC would you need Rumble for? Viewtiful Joe? lol I used the Wavebird too but when it comes to playing action games it just feels wrong to not have rumble. If you own a PS3 and have played Resistence or VF5, you know what I mean. A FPS without rumble? What are we playing on the PC back in the 90's? And do you really like Racing games without Rumble? That is another genre I couldn't see without feedback, especially a game like Motorstorm. I think that's why they pulled GTHD though, so that they could have rumble in it once they finally injected it into the new controller.

C. I did play, and I agree...but play the Single Player game where things happen all around you that are part of the story...and tell me if you feel like you're in the game as much as when it's on. In MP the game is so hectic most of the time you couldn't give 2 sh!ts if there's rumble or not because you only feel it right before you die. But even then, some games allow you to feel bullets passing you by so you know to take cover. So in all, Necissary? That varies by oppinion I suppose. Improves gameplay? In games that can use it, yes.

Trashcat

04-03-2007, 05:10 AM

ku16610

04-03-2007, 05:14 AM

Very boring thread , lots of arguing.

thebobevil

04-03-2007, 05:19 AM

Consoles should not be used to play movies. It simply is not good for the laser in the console when the console is used as a movie player.

(Which is why I am glad that M$ chose to release the HD-DVD drive as an add-on, and not to integrate it.)

Sony know this ... they know it very well from the PS2, as many people killed their PS2s by using then as DVD players, as well as games machines.

The PS3 is the cheapest bluray player, and Sony are banking on that to sell bucketloads of the console.

Then, as so many people kill their machines, using them as movie players, and then have to buy replacement machines, they will buy a new PS3, rather than a standalone Bluray player, due to it still being the cheapest.

Sony can then use these sales figures in the so-called 'format war'.

The main problem is, Sony have never had a successful format, and are desperate to have one.

Betamax, ATRAC, MiniDisc, UMD, Memory Sticks ... these all did poorly, and Sony are far too concerned with creating a successful format, that they are neglecting far more important issues.

(The Memory Stick did so far under expectation, that it wasn't even the only card usuable in the PS3 ... Sony simply couldn't rely on their own product.)

If someone could release a standalone Bluray player, that was less expensive than a PS3, Sony's new format could in fact kill their own gaming division.

Xenogears V

04-03-2007, 06:11 AM

grd94533

04-03-2007, 06:14 AM

I think Microsoft had the right idea about releasing the hd dvd drive as a separate unit. That way if blu-ray does win the war they can always come out with a blu-ray unit. I think Sony should have done the same thing. I own both systems and already I have created a pretty good size library for both formats so it really doesn't matter to me which one wins. But if blu-ray does win and Microsoft doesn't allow me to use my hd dvd unit on their future consoles then I will personally shove each one of my hd dvd disc straight up Bill Gate's ass!!!

STKD

04-03-2007, 07:02 AM

"Is the PlayStation 3 a Trojan horse to help sell Blu-ray films?"

No. It's the only damn reason the thing exists.

rivera_129

04-03-2007, 08:59 AM

Wow i thought this was gamespot.com for a sec seems like no one likes the ps3 oh well maybe u guys cant afford it:rolleyes:

kayjay

04-03-2007, 09:00 AM

Ichijoe

04-03-2007, 09:00 AM

Is the Sky Blue?! :rolleyes:

whackawookie

04-03-2007, 09:10 AM

Personally i use my ps3 for movies so if this was the case then sony is doing pretty decent for the bluray effect but that won't be for long considering the standalone players have been announced at a price just as low as the ps3 now and have been said to be even lower by christmas this year meaning if you only want the movies then the ps3 is going to have a hard time keeping the edge once those players are out

Razgrith

04-03-2007, 09:11 AM

this is the worst thread ever on maxconsole...

lots of anti-sony posts that go like: ps3 is a bluray player not a console, etc.
and people bitching about how the ps3 is much more expensive than a xbox360... BORING, youre only comparing the shelf price for the console itself, not the additional stuff one might need/want to buy e.g. online gaming.

maybe maxconsole should move ahead and tone down the anti-sony news on the frontpage a bit. 85% of all sony related news here is pure bitching about how the ps3 sucks... come on, the console just came out.

Really? Dig up thread archives (from May 2005 to Mid-2006) on gamespot's system wars. Or on any gaming website for that matter. You'll see that almost every post goes like "The xbox 360 ain't next gen", "3 Rings of Death galore!" or "look at the graphics! LOLZ!!!!"

kayjay

04-03-2007, 09:24 AM

Really? Dig up thread archives (from May 2005 to Mid-2006) on gamespot's system wars. Or on any gaming website for that matter. You'll see that almost every post goes like "The xbox 360 ain't next gen", "3 Rings of Death galore!" or "look at the graphics! LOLZ!!!!"

btw my xbox360 (samsung ms25) just died too.
i already talked to ms support and they sent over ups to pick it up.

maybe i should go through the old news posts on maxconsole....
reading negative posts about microsofts xbox360 could actually be fun.

eggroll

04-03-2007, 09:44 AM

Is the wii a gamecube with a wiimote?

yes, i think so

msanchez

04-03-2007, 11:35 AM

Consoles should not be used to play movies. It simply is not good for the laser in the console when the console is used as a movie player.
In my opinion a console's main selling feature shouldn't be playing movies. Though I never use it, I don't mind the ability to play movies being available to me.

....Then, as so many people kill their machines, using them as movie players, and then have to buy replacement machines, they will buy a new PS3, rather than a standalone Bluray player, due to it still being the cheapest.......
By the time any ps3 dies BD players probably be at or under the $300, they already said that by Christmas there will be some models around that price range.

The main problem is, Sony have never had a successful format, and are desperate to have one.......
As someone said here no sony format has had a machine with the pull of the ps3, so past format wars are not really something to go by IMHO.

The Memory Stick did so far under expectation, that it wasn't even the only card usuable in the PS3 ... Sony simply couldn't rely on their own product.
People would have cried their eyes out saying sony is forcing yet another format on them, and in any case the only cameras that use memory sticks are sony's, there's a few mp3 players aside from sony ones that use it, but mostly mp3 also use MMC/SD as well. To me it's not that they don't have faith, it's that they realize memory sticks are not, and will not be for a while if ever, the leader in that field. Memory stick is basically not in a format war with the other formats, at least not in a do or die war like HD-DVD and BD.

.......If someone could release a standalone Bluray player, that was less expensive than a PS3, Sony's new format could in fact kill their own gaming division.
I think they rather the ps3 not do so good and assure that they will win the format war, then having the ps3 do well and being unsure that BD won't win. The profits they will get from BD far exceed what the ps3 can yield.

ku16610

04-03-2007, 11:52 AM

In my opinion a console's main selling feature shouldn't be playing movies. Though I never use it, I don't mind the ability to play movies being available to me.

By the time any ps3 dies BD players probably be at or under the $300, they already said that by Christmas there will be some models around that price range.

As someone said here no sony format has had a machine with the pull of the ps3, so past format wars are not really something to go by IMHO.

People would have cried their eyes out saying sony is forcing yet another format on them, and in any case the only cameras that use memory sticks are sony's, there's a few mp3 players aside from sony ones that use it, but mostly mp3 also use MMC/SD as well. To me it's not that they don't have faith, it's that they realize memory sticks are not, and will not be for a while if ever, the leader in that field. Memory stick is basically not in a format war with the other formats, at least not in a do or die war like HD-DVD and BD.

I think they rather the ps3 not do so good and assure that they will win the format war, then having the ps3 do well and being unsure that BD won't win. The profits they will get from BD far exceed what the ps3 can yield.

too long and frankly more boring than brataslavian pinup calender from 1923, who cares.

Basically it boils down to this , This is an english paper that prints crap , this is a website that just sheeps crap news , the forum users here love to argue over any crap.

so all in all very crap thread.

Nick255

04-03-2007, 11:54 AM

Is the Pope Catholic?

daps83777

04-03-2007, 12:08 PM

Hd-Dvd is already dead, is a tecnologies obsolete,

Blu-ray 8 layers up to 200 Gb
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu_Ray

Hd-dvd only 3 layers up to 51 Gb
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

You read the chart and noticed the abyss that is among the two supports!.

50TB discs

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060713-7259.html

300gb to 1TB discs

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article12559.html

Blu ray is already obsolete :cool:

CZroe

04-03-2007, 12:34 PM

50TB discs

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060713-7259.html

300gb to 1TB discs

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article12559.html

Blu ray is already obsolete :cool:
Good thing none of those are seriously proposed for a consumer format. :)

DanASBO

04-03-2007, 12:42 PM

"Is the PlayStation 3 a Trojan horse to help sell Blu-ray films?"

Yes.

^Which is the only comment needed. ;)

daps83777

04-03-2007, 12:44 PM

Good thing none of those are seriously proposed for a consumer format. :)

actually a couple of sources said the second one is going to be marketed to the consumer market next year i believe, and they said they will be available at consumer prices.

the first one was an experiment, so no one knows much about it.

my point is just that there will always be something better, and as long as people are content then it is very likely that hd-dvd and blu ray fail. just like laser disc. when people find something they actually see as price effective and they see bounds and leaps better quality then perhaps they will upgrade. dvd is no vhs, and people are satisfied with dvd, people had been praying for a replacement for vhs for years, and most thought that cd's would be the new movie media but it never did, and laser disc was way better than vhs yet it never took off big enough to take over for vhs.

sigma8

04-03-2007, 02:27 PM

That post was a little excesive, wasn't it? lol But anyway...
Yeah, sorry for the long post. This one was about as long too, I just finished editing it down.

Now then, what games, besides the RE games (Which weren't good for rumble anyway), on the GC would you need Rumble for? Viewtiful Joe?
Waverace, MarioKart, Zelda games, MGS: Twin Snakes, Metroid Prime games, Soul Calibur 2, F-zero GX, Monkey Ball games (woot monkey fight!), Smash Brothers Melee, Eternal Darkness (insanity effects).. That includes a mix of racers, first-person viewpoint games, action-adventure... and "other"..

In fact, I think MGS was the best use of rumble I've seen in a game, overall. Better than in any FPS game I've played. Still, while I've had passing thoughts that it's a shame the wavebird didn't do rumble, I ultimately shrugged and used the wavebird anyway. It's not a big deal. Rumble is no big thing. Ridiculous really. People argue for hours on end about the merits of super fancy hi-rez graphics versus simple graphics, and graphics do or don't create great gameplay...but apparently it's universal that OMG RUMBLE IS NEEDED.

C. I did play, and I agree...but play the Single Player game where things happen all around you that are part of the story...and tell me if you feel like you're in the game as much as when it's on. In MP the game is so hectic most of the time you couldn't give 2 sh!ts if there's rumble or not because you only feel it right before you die. But even then, some games allow you to feel bullets passing you by so you know to take cover. So in all, Necissary? That varies by oppinion I suppose. Improves gameplay? In games that can use it, yes.

I'm not saying that rumble...as a technology...is inherently stupid or bad. I liked the rumble features in MGS a lot, but if I couldn't play with rumble on, I wouldn't really care. What I'm saying is that of the 5% of all games released that are actually good games, only another 5% of those games actually have a noteworthy implementation of rumble. This doesn't seem about to change in the near or intermediate future. Believe me, I'd rather see it improve. The state of the rumble art today, however...is pretty useless.

Before the PS3 shipped without rumble, nobody gave a rat's a** about rumble. People in fact happily bought controllers without rumble in order to get other features. But as soon as it was fodder to use to make fun of the PS3, suddenly you have people revealing that they actually married Rumble several years ago, but just never told anyone...and they can't live without Rumble.

I would rate the ergonomics of a controller far above rumble. I'd rather play Soul Calibur 2 with an arcade stick without rumble, than with a gamepad with rumble. Likewise, I'd rather play a FPS with a keyboard/mouse...for me that ups the immersion a lot more because I don't feel like I'm controlling the Spirit Rover on Mars with some slow and clunky analog joystick....mouse/keyboard is more analog, more precise.

sigma8

04-03-2007, 02:44 PM

Consoles should not be used to play movies. It simply is not good for the laser in the console when the console is used as a movie player.

(Which is why I am glad that M$ chose to release the HD-DVD drive as an add-on, and not to integrate it.)

Wait, so you are saying: if people buy something, and they get so much usage out of it, that it breaks...that this is a bad product? You know, your iPod would also last a lot longer if you bought a separate iPod for each of your favorite playlists. Using one iPod for all your playlists really wears down those drive heads.

iratasan

04-03-2007, 03:04 PM

This is not a topic of "how much the 360 sucks", any more of that talk in this thread will get deleted! Everyone has been warned.

finally. thank you, please do that more often. maybe then we will have some actual discussions round here.

as there is no sense in two hd formats and as the HD-DVD consortium wasn't able to find a way to get together with the blueray-consortium, even though the brc did everything to find a way into fusing both formats into one i would like the ps3 to succeed and wipe away HD-DVD from the market as soon as possible.

PSPWAD

04-03-2007, 03:21 PM

Wait, so you are saying: if people buy something, and they get so much usage out of it, that it breaks...that this is a bad product? You know, your iPod would also last a lot longer if you bought a separate iPod for each of your favorite playlists. Using one iPod for all your playlists really wears down those drive heads.
I'm sorry, but that's a really sh1tty example...

EDIT: A better example would be if the PSX or Saturn had used MD instead of CDs and charged $100 more for the system...

CZroe

04-03-2007, 03:47 PM

I don't know. Is the PS3 a trojan horse for Blu-ray? Or is blu-ray a trojan horse for the PS3?

Due to the technological superiority of the format, a lot o tech heads favor blu-ray already. The fact that the PS3 has it for cheap is often an incentive for them to buy the PS3.

For me, I didn't get a blu-ray player because I bought a PS3. I got a PS3 because I bought a blu-ray player. Same for a friend of mine.
I'm so glad that there are so many independant verifications that this actually happens and that I'm not the only one. It seems that everyone saying that we are the minority, few-to-none of the people claiming that have one!

[something I said]So you bought it for BD playback? well your a small percentage I would think. I don't really mind it having it, but to be honest by the time I start buying BD movies I'll probably have bought a BD player by then.

Of course, some do own one and still claim that, but according to these forums, THEY actually seem to be the minority!

CZroe

04-03-2007, 03:49 PM

I'm sorry, but that's a really sh1tty example...

EDIT: A better example would be if the PSX or Saturn had used MD instead of CDs and charged $100 more for the system...
No, he's very specifically talking about NOT using it for general-purpose movie watching or else you will wear it out.

Unfortunately, it's just too convenient to watch my DVDs on the PS3 and the promised DVD upscaling will make it the best DVD player I own, so I'm not likely to stop... but I have had the same concern (to the point where it's difficult to enjoy the movie!). Sony's history shows that virtually any drive of theirs will fail under heavy but normal use within a few years.

sigma8

04-03-2007, 04:04 PM

I'm sorry, but that's a really sh1tty example...

EDIT: A better example would be if the PSX or Saturn had used MD instead of CDs and charged $100 more for the system...
No, a better example would be if used a CD-ROM for games, music, and videoCDs, and then charged an extra $200 for a DVD-player add-on..

But I wasn't trying to make a 1:1 comparison, I was emphasizing that if you get a lot of use out of something you buy, that it's a good thing. If you use it to the point of breaking, that only proves what a good purchase it's been...unless it breaks really easily.

sigma8

04-03-2007, 04:11 PM

No, he's very specifically talking about NOT using it for general-purpose movie watching or else you will wear it out.

Unfortunately, it's just too convenient to watch my DVDs on the PS3 and the promised DVD upscaling will make it the best DVD player I own, so I'm not likely to stop... but I have had the same concern (to the point where it's difficult to enjoy the movie!). Sony's history shows that virtually any drive of theirs will fail under heavy but normal use within a few years.

There are two ways to do things:

- buy few multi-function devices
- buy many single-function devices

You can either spend $600 on the PS3 and treat it as your games/dvd/blu-ray/sacd player.. Or you can spent $400+$200+$600+$200 on a games+dvd+bluray+sacd player. Or maybe cut out the SACD player (who plays those?).. Also the $200 I estimated for the dvd is an estimated price for a high quality upconverting player. Cheapo $50 wouldn't satisfy.

Personally, I got the PS3 with the 2 year retailer warranty. It was pricey, but now I can abuse it without worrying about it. In 2 years, if it breaks, replacing it will be a lot cheaper and there may be more appealing options. Or you can treat the thing like a glass menagerie and not get your enjoyment out of it, and have a perfectly working, potentially obsolete PS3 in 3 years.

msanchez

04-03-2007, 07:09 PM

too long and frankly more boring than brataslavian pinup calender from 1923, who cares.

Basically it boils down to this , This is an english paper that prints crap , this is a website that just sheeps crap news , the forum users here love to argue over any crap.

so all in all very crap thread.

That's a shame that you find my post boring, I was so hoping to entertain you :rolleyes:

Basically it boils down to this, we come in here to "ARGUE" our different points of views. Some of us are bored at work or at home, and for lack of anything better do to we come in here and exchange ideas, if you can't understand that then that's fine, but really what are you doing posting in the thread if it's so boring? I'm sure you can find some porn if you look well enough.

Good luck to you on your endless quest for entertainment.

Trashcat

04-03-2007, 07:11 PM

as there is no sense in two hd formats and as the HD-DVD consortium wasn't able to find a way to get together with the blueray-consortium, even though the brc did everything to find a way into fusing both formats into one i would like the ps3 to succeed and wipe away HD-DVD from the market as soon as possible.
Excuse me but who the **** is this betamax2 consortium? Isn't it just some members of the DVD-consortium who got too greedy (mostly sony) because the consortium would not let them own HD-DVD as much as they would like to? Why do you want betamax2 to win? Didn't the world have enough of sony's proprietary formats?

iratasan

04-03-2007, 07:26 PM

Excuse me but who the **** is this betamax2 consortium? Isn't it just some members of the DVD-consortium who got too greedy (mostly sony) because the consortium would not let them own HD-DVD as much as they would like to? Why do you want betamax2 to win? Didn't the world have enough of sony's proprietary formats?

actually sony invited their opponents and their supporters to find a way to unite both formats advantages into one, so there would be no format war.

anyway, please take a look at the supporters of blueray and then tell me who besides toshiba and microsoft supports HD-DVD.

apart from that, if you don't have any arguments, why even use complete sentences? just shout out "betamax" everytime someone does not share your opinion. e.g.

A: what do you think of the wii?
B: betamax!!! betamax!!! aaaargh!

A: who do you think will win the election?
B: betamax!! betamax!! baaaad.

but to make it easier for you, i give you a second argumnt you could use, how about "minidisk" for example. that's even shoutable. cute, eh?

i bet you are burning to shout "3do" into someones face but are just waiting for the right moment, aren't you?

i also bet if you had a ps3 you would shout out "baaaah, Xbox 1, boooh" as soon as someone says something about the 360.

so, don't forget if you see someone wearing an ATARI tshirt next time to shout "jaguar!" at him. :D

Trashcat

04-03-2007, 08:10 PM

actually sony invited their opponents and their supporters to find a way to unite both formats advantages into one, so there would be no format war.
Source of that claim? I doubt thats true since the biggest advantage of the format is that sony gets a bigger cut, DVD-forum obviously would not give sony a bigger cut (why should they?) so there is no way to join formats any more. You make it sound like sony started their own format because they were not pleased by the technology behind HD-DVD which is not the true reason, just like any other format sony started it was for the sole purpose of having a proprietary format. Its sony who went against DVD-forum and started the format war over again and just for that they deserve to fail.

anyway, please take a look at the supporters of blueray and then tell me who besides toshiba and microsoft supports HD-DVD.
google is your friend

apart from that, if you don't have any arguments, why even use complete sentences? just shout out "betamax" everytime someone does not share your opinion. e.g.
The word betamax really gets you off, would you happen to have bought one back in the day? If betamax2 wins the format war will that make you feel good about your previous investment? Hey maybe they will make a dual format recorder so you can tape your betamax2 movies onto a betamax1 tape and watch it on your old TV for nostalgic effect.

msanchez

04-03-2007, 11:22 PM

I don't get how MS, Toshiba, NEC, Intel and Universal are any less evil then Sony, Compaq, HP, Apple, Dell, Panasonic and the other movie studios who support BD. As you can see there's a bigger # of companies supporting BD, so who would you think is the one causing the disagreement? Wouldn't it be easier for HD-DVD camp to agree with BD-camp? Democratically it's easier for the minority to agree with the majority so let's see about 11 companies support BD exclusively, and about 5 support HD-DVD exclusively..... think about it who's really causing the war.

Scorpion3

04-03-2007, 11:23 PM

Fanboys are funny, like those fanboys who deny rumble even though its been standard ever since DualShock1. Fact is rumble brings an extra level of immersion that would be impossible to achieve any other way. Deny it all you want but even sony brings it back because thats what most people want.

My point exactly, except that Sony didn't bring it back for the fans, they bought it back for their games and then denied ever saying that they didn't need Rumble. lol. Even though it was less then a month before they settled for Rumble that they made those bogus claims.

And Iratasan, if you check google, you'll see a LOT of BD supporters have jumped ship about as fast as game devs have been jumping to Multiplatform instead of having exclusive games on the PS3.

msanchez

04-03-2007, 11:27 PM

My point exactly, except that Sony didn't bring it back for the fans, they bought it back for their games and then denied ever saying that they didn't need Rumble. lol. Even though it was less then a month before they settled for Rumble that they made those bogus claims.

And Iratasan, if you check google, you'll see a LOT of BD supporters have jumped ship about as fast as game devs have been jumping to Multiplatform instead of having exclusive games on the PS3.

On that video they posted that they interviewed Phil Harrison he quite clearly says when asked about his earlier comments on rumble "We were in litigation; what did you expect me to say?. We've got to look out for our companies interest" I don't think that's too hard to understand. Also which exclusive BD supporters have jumped ship?

sigma8

04-04-2007, 01:30 AM

google is your friend
And your enemy. If you used it, you'd find that more movie studios are onboard with Blu-ray (for now at least) and more tech companies are behind blu-ray as well.

The word betamax really gets you off, would you happen to have bought one back in the day? If betamax2 wins the format war will that make you feel good about your previous investment? Hey maybe they will make a dual format recorder so you can tape your betamax2 movies onto a betamax1 tape and watch it on your old TV for nostalgic effect.

I'm not sure why you hate betamax so much. There was really no huge difference to consumers in terms of price for the early adopters of either format. Betamax tapes provided higher quality video, but their running times were too short. The issue was addressed before VHS hit critical mass, but the supply and marketing were already out of Sony's favor.

I'm not sure why you think it would have been so horrible. Prices to consumers were similar. Both were "proprietary". It's not like VHS was done by some open-source committee. We just got to use Proprietary A versus Proprietary B. Once something dominates market long enough, "proprietary" becomes standard. E.g. compact discs. You think those were created by nature or something?

PSPWAD

04-04-2007, 08:53 AM

You can either spend $600 on the PS3 and treat it as your games/dvd/blu-ray/sacd player.. Or you can spent $400+$200+$600+$200 on a games+dvd+bluray+sacd player. Or maybe cut out the SACD player (who plays those?).. Also the $200 I estimated for the dvd is an estimated price for a high quality upconverting player. Cheapo $50 wouldn't satisfy.
If you wanna get technical about it, you would have to spend $600 every two years, as the drive would fail based on "Sony Quality" drives...

Also for DVD, the 360 will play upscaled DVDs and also will last longer because the companies making those drives make quality drives. This cuts your price theory down a bit. $400 for games + DVD. Then again my PC is the center of my entertainment center, so I don't worry about "upscaling DVD players" anyways...lol...

Ichinisan

04-04-2007, 09:37 AM

If you wanna get technical about it, you would have to spend $600 every two years, as the drive would fail based on "Sony Quality" drives...

That's so true. As described earlier, this is why I am so reluctant to use it as my DVD player, though it's too convenient so I can't resist. Sure enough, I watched some more on it last night (Da Ali G Show Compleet Seereez). :(

Edit: This is CZroe

iratasan

04-04-2007, 03:40 PM

Source of that claim? I doubt thats true since the biggest advantage of the format is that sony gets a bigger cut, DVD-forum obviously would not give sony a bigger cut (why should they?) so there is no way to join formats any more. You make it sound like sony started their own format because they were not pleased by the technology behind HD-DVD which is not the true reason, just like any other format sony started it was for the sole purpose of having a proprietary format. Its sony who went against DVD-forum and started the format war over again and just for that they deserve to fail.

google is your friend

The word betamax really gets you off, would you happen to have bought one back in the day? If betamax2 wins the format war will that make you feel good about your previous investment? Hey maybe they will make a dual format recorder so you can tape your betamax2 movies onto a betamax1 tape and watch it on your old TV for nostalgic effect.

if you had followed the format war just for a bit you should already know what i told you. that was by the end of the last year. anyway, what do you mean by dvd forum? if you mean the consortii, then you are wrong. the dvd, hd-dvd and blue ray consortii have nothing in common. sony get's a cut out of blue-ray as well as any other company in that consortium, same with hd-dvd and dvd. what do you mean by proprietary in that context? different manufacturers support blue ray, what's proprietary about that? ATRAC was a proprietarian format by sony, blueray is not.

anyway, you should differ between hardware manufacturers and movie companies. i was talking about hardware manufacturers in case you wonder. so, who's in there besides toshiba and microsoft?

about the betamax thing: lol, nice try but we had a vhs and we were the last in our trailer park to get one as we were quite broke at that time. i knew that you would try to get back at me with such a cheap trick. thanks for the satisfaction. :D

anyway, my point was, as you very well proved here, that the cheapest way to get attention in any sony related discussion is screaming out "betamax". thank you for that too. to give you at least a bit of satisfaction: i had a sony minidisk player. happy now? maybe i could introduce it to your zune so they can play in the garden.

I don't get how MS, Toshiba, NEC, Intel and Universal are any less evil then Sony, Compaq, HP, Apple, Dell, Panasonic and the other movie studios who support BD. As you can see there's a bigger # of companies supporting BD, so who would you think is the one causing the disagreement? Wouldn't it be easier for HD-DVD camp to agree with BD-camp? Democratically it's easier for the minority to agree with the majority so let's see about 11 companies support BD exclusively, and about 5 support HD-DVD exclusively..... think about it who's really causing the war.

absolutely right!

My point exactly, except that Sony didn't bring it back for the fans, they bought it back for their games and then denied ever saying that they didn't need Rumble. lol. Even though it was less then a month before they settled for Rumble that they made those bogus claims.

.. and that has to do with the actual discussion in what way?

And Iratasan, if you check google, you'll see a LOT of BD supporters have jumped ship about as fast as game devs have been jumping to Multiplatform instead of having exclusive games on the PS3.

you are talking about game developers of the ps3, not about supporters of the blueray format. studios that program for the 360 are not dvd supporters, ye know? sanchez did point out the supporters of the formats right and as they make money out of the format they support changing conssortii is not like deciding a game to be multiplatform instead of exclusive.