Revolution to be "2.5 times more powerful than Cube"

[Zeus]

Gamesindustry report developers speaking to GamesIndustry.biz this week have commented that the the Revolution console, hardware kits for which began shipping to third parties recently, is shaping up to be around 2.5 times more powerful than GameCube.



Up until the past week or so, developers close enough to Nintendo's inner circle to have seen any Revolution hardware were working with development kits that were simply GameCube kits with mock-ups of the "wand" controller attached - a clear signal, if any were required, that the system is more about innovative control than about the hardware specs.

Now, however, Nintendo has spoken to developers in more depth about its hardware plans for the new system - and has begun shipping more advanced development kits to selected third-parties, featuring early versions of some of the chips which will appear in the final console.

An article published by US website IGN this morning revealed some details of the console, and several developers today have spoken to GamesIndustry.biz to help fill in the gaps.

The picture we're building up of the final console is as follows; the Cube will be powered by the IBM CPU codenamed Broadway, which is very similar to the Gekko CPU used in the GameCube, but runs at around twice the clock speed and offers potentially two to three times the overall performance, and the ATI graphics chip codenamed Hollywood.

While Broadway is well-understood by developers, the ATI part remains "a bit of a black box", according to one senior developer we spoke to. "We have theoretical throughput figures and stats from Nintendo, but nobody's seen the hardware yet - we're just treating it like it's a faster version of the GameCube GPU, at the moment."


News Source: <a href="http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=13482" target="_blank">Gamesindustry.biz</a>

[jpxdude]

This is good news!

The gamecube is a pretty capable machine, hindered mainly by its mediocre media capacity. With the Rev, it wouldn't have to get much better than it already is to increase so much how well games play, it shouldn't be a case of how many fps you can achieve with a million enemies on screen with a trillion calculations per second and ultra realistic graphics etc,... it'll be innovation. I've already got the 'real world' if I ever get bored of fun :P

I can't wait :)

[Shadowsan]

The _really_ interesting bit from my point of view...

...quite a lot of the homebrew stuff already available should port over with very few modifications, if the rumours are true about the architecture etc :D

And because ninty have already claimed backward compatability and a 512mb flash drive... homebrew apps will already have a ready made home (hopefully)...

Will have to wait and see though - i've heard so many supposed 'facts' and specs recently that i'm gonna just sit on the fence and wait for it to come out.

It's success is totally dependant on:

a) price (to appeal to people who either already own another console to try it, or people who wouldn't usually buy a console)
b) marketing (again, to reach new markets and build up some true hype for it)
c) GAMES

[chukz]

see when they say 2.5x that is still hard to imagine, will it do the same things as GC but faster? do they actually have the new features that newer GPUs have or is it the same thing but faster clock rates?

another thing is 512mb flash ram is not a lot, considering some N64 roms (games) are 64mb... would suck to have to redownload them all the time... unless nintendo's built in emulator can read .zip files :D

other than that it makes sense that without HD capabilities it really doesn't need to do all that the other consoles can do. I'm just hoping some of the nicer and newer video effects will make it... will be hard convincing a 3rd party to release the same game on PS3 and 360 onto Revolution if they gotta downgrade it a lot and all that

[smudgeone]

As far as 3rd party devolpers go, they should not have any difficulty downgrading software. Just look at King Kong and NFS:MW, they both run on current-gen and 360. Developers just ramp up the polygons and the resolution for the 360 versions. The games still play the same, just the 360 versions are in High Def. And with supply shortages, Sony and even Nintendo have a very good chance at still stomping on the 360. Sony has been pushing the PSP with advertising extravaganzas, but the games on the DS have allowed that system to still dominate the PSP. I'm sure it wont last forever, but games do sell the system. Oops, I ranted again, 2.5x more powerful in computers is only about a 3 year jump. Too bad nintendo is so conservative, power doesnt have to mean price.

[Azariel]

What make a console solid or not are the games. X-Box is pointing to the american concept of "fun"..let's see.."shooting-racing-bloody" games on most case.. forget puzzles or IQ challenges on most occasions.. on the otehr side japanese developers have more wide variety to choose and apply from.. .
I choosed GC because the games really. Franchises as Metroid Prime and Mario games ( sunshine..Double dash, party, papermario ) coexist very nicely on Cube with multiplataform releases like Resident Evil , Need for Spee, The Sims. Still nintendo lacks a little "mature" marketing like sony ( "oh yeah..we are not for children.." ) so Nintendo always get this stamps of childy :) console..even that still is a great console..thinking that a little thing like Cube can be side by side with PS2 and X-Box.. more it have more fun games than "wasting time" games to full fill stocks..
A good example adn ahrd..is the PSP while is X times better hardware, much more $$$ and "cool" .. still is more fun to play on DS.. Interaction is everything on costumers mind.. graphics can stun most of viwers but how you can interact with them is another thing.. Marketing is very important also Revolution should make a great balance between wich kind of public they are targeting.. becoming a "teenager" gadget like PSP close many doors , the oppossite is true also. I guess Nintendo will continue to support their own "multiage" market, I hope so.. PS3 will eb a great hardware and far expenssive also, ( little fortune...) games shoudl be accessible, thats why Nintendo is smarter producing balanced products, and here Revolution have a poitn over X-Box and PS3, will be far more attractive for general public on teh way you interact with it. But while we speak here at Sony , they msut be hacking Nintendo servers to get their hands over the Motion detector :D , so maybe we will se a "mutation" over the new PS3 "beta controller to a "final version" .. ;) . Well you know when you are good when otehrs try to copy your work. Same to PSP ...I read soemwhere a PSP owner wishing for a "PSP tablet" ..to "make DS fans crazy" ..
Anyway, abotu ahrdware Nintendo revolution should be a upgrade of Cube and thats enough, comparing the hardware evolution on these years, deosnt need to be a "vision" because on 3 months becomes an obsolete "performance" but should be enough to increse the interactivity with new games..and also support new common feautures..like shadeing displacement..HDR..maybe Fake GI..and HD output off course.. Capability to play old titles is always welcome..Nintendo realised the necesity of a "built in" emulator..
Sooo..extra cehap feautres..USB connection .wi-fi..ınternet brower... should be enough to transform this console on a Hit..
But we must wait to see how much cheaper compared to the new "NASA masterpiece" with 7 processors and awesome non full interactive graphics from PS3 will be.

[thaddius]

I've never believed it when people say that Nintendo is kiddy. Resident Evil remake, zero, and 4 were exclusive releases. MGS: twin Snakes isn't a kids game. Those are two of the greatest third party franchises, the'yre pretty violent and they're on the GC.

The Revs speed won't matter. It's still going to have some great games on it. We all know it will.

[Azariel]

It never emans Nintendo is kiddy, but fact is Mario, Yoshi, Toad, Wario adn Cia.. are the Nintendo mascots..if you say Nintendo first things a gamer could say is "Mario".. sure is a unconciouss assotiation but comes from the Nes and even from before ( Mario against Donkey on Arcade platform..) ...but if you say "Playstation" ...Automatically comes "Tekken", "Gran Turismo" , "Final Fantasy" " Devil May Cry" etcetc.. exactly some Playstation hardcore fanatics keep saying Cube is childy because there is a infant target market..and is true! We can't denny it, but the mistake lies where people believe that is 100% this way. It is not. So Nintendo should , as I said..balance the marketing . A big msitake was the N64 platform transition from 16 bits to 64 bits.. where most games were pretty weak.. and really childy with some exceptions ( Zelda, Perfect Dark..) Fearing piracy Nintendo stucked on cartdridge , low capacity storage. Sony then was free to market and developers got a really huge space where to put games content and media at wish... Even I, after waiting for Ninendo 64 release, got very dissapointed , after some time I sold it, is true some games were great..but that s it, soem of them only. I got a PSX instead...adn got plenty satisfied.... IF just on that time Nintendo could have adopted the "mini CD" perhaps instead carts. the history could have been another way..

[thaddius]

It never emans Nintendo is kiddy, but fact is Mario, Yoshi, Toad, Wario adn Cia.. are the Nintendo mascots..if you say Nintendo first things a gamer could say is "Mario".. sure is a unconciouss assotiation but comes from the Nes and even from before ( Mario against Donkey on Arcade platform..) ...but if you say "Playstation" ...Automatically comes "Tekken", "Gran Turismo" , "Final Fantasy" " Devil May Cry" etcetc.. exactly some Playstation hardcore fanatics keep saying Cube is childy because there is a infant target market..and is true! We can't denny it, but the mistake lies where people believe that is 100% this way. It is not. So Nintendo should , as I said..balance the marketing . A big msitake was the N64 platform transition from 16 bits to 64 bits.. where most games were pretty weak.. and really childy with some exceptions ( Zelda, Perfect Dark..) Fearing piracy Nintendo stucked on cartdridge , low capacity storage. Sony then was free to market and developers got a really huge space where to put games content and media at wish... Even I, after waiting for Ninendo 64 release, got very dissapointed , after some time I sold it, is true some games were great..but that s it, soem of them only. I got a PSX instead...adn got plenty satisfied.... IF just on that time Nintendo could have adopted the "mini CD" perhaps instead carts. the history could have been another way..


I still play my 64. Love it.

None of the 'things associated with PSX' that you mentioned are playstation mascots.

When I think Nintendo I think, yes Mario, but Zelda, Metroid, Advance\Batallion Wars, Fire Emblem, Smash Bros. as mascot titles. And I also think RE and MGS. None of those are very kiddy. In fact the Metroid and Battalsion Wars games are quite violent. I'm just saying it's a stigma that doesn't make sense.

[smudgeone]

Azariel, I agree with you on every point except where you said only some of the games on the N64 were good. I have a good collection of 24 or 25 carts and the only one of the bunch that i really hate is Mission Impossible. But this is the rev. forum so never mind. Gamecube has always had great titles that ranged from E to M. The image of the 'cube' and the 'handle' are what I think were the major downfall to the reputation of the gamecube. The revolution is a very sexy machine. Even in prototype form the Revolution is just so sexy.

Adn jsut as a sied noet Azariel, sepllchecking yuor posts adds readability

[Azariel]

Yes..spellcheck is my weak point on every forum :o , generally I am at work, so I write too fast and bypass spell check when something comes suddenly , and takes me away from the page ( I work with animation so suddenly I need to move to other stations ) . Sorry for that, to all readers that meets my "Elf language" :D . Well, I wanted to reafirm, yes Gamecube really is great, I was just talking about nintendo marketing strategy , that effected the image through the 4 generations of Console, GC was a great Comeback adn I wish NRV reafirms that Nitnendo , different from Sony, priorizes the fun voer the hardware. Monopoly of just one company could be a real pain.
And About N64 I didn't hate, I got titles as Mario64, MarioKart, Zelda(1 & 2) and one of the greatest , Japanese version of Mysthical Ninja , as soem of my favorites from all time. I really hope like Nintendo DS Revolution be pure fun, AND releases good titles too. Like New Metroids , RE, Mario Kart series, and new ways to play also.

[Revfan9]

Not trying to be mean, but I would expect y'all to be more knowledgable about this kinda stuff.

http://www.playbomb.com/2005/12/11/124/nintendo-displacement-mapping-patents-discoverec/

belive me, i'm no graphics whore. If it was as powerful as the brownbox I would buy it for the games, but this is just icing on the cake.

[Azariel]

I dont see a problem here, like the article said.. Nintendo is optimizing the way to use normal Maps to give a highpoly definition to its pipeline, indeed is what all the consoles are doing, starting from New Graphic cards with pixel shader capabilities on PC.
None could use raw high polygon data in a game nowaydays, because you are throwing by the window bandwidht to increase performance on other areas...so great look at cost of low speed and less objects on the screen? Never...so increase the graphics Core processor! yes and you get a mini boeing simulator unit over 50000 bucks!!
HW game Companies tend to optimize on many ways , using every drop of the processor ( as possible..generally doing it after second or thrid generation games on that console ), so be aware is not a war between hardware but how much creative you can be with your stuff.

Same can be said by other stuff, again look at Nintendo DS and look at PSP. They are different machines..different hardware...and so different interaction. I mentioned before already Nintendo should provide the new machine with features that are common to play new generation games. Normal Mapping is one of that and also offset mapping and otehr technologies, like HDR ( or fake as we know ) , all this tasks are Processor intenssive and require a good strategy, by HW developers to put them all toghether keeping a relatively accessible price. Sony tried some approach with its multimedia machine, PSP, even that is hard to reach all targets at once >>Internet browser? can you chat with that? MP3 Player..yes.. how much expenssive is 1GB memory card? maybe x 3 times a standard USB P&P player..
Another example how would we play Driving games on Revolution? Old GC control will fit it in? Or ... How to play fighting games ( like SNK vs Capcom2 ) with standard GC console.. ( is horrible ).. and so on.
The best is to wait and see how much "crative" the developers can be to bring something that is not a extra-expenssive gadget with comon features but instead a well balanced and robust enough machine but with its own spcecial characteristics. Believe or not this also stimulates gamers imagination, and this cicle of ideas can grow really faster, lets say new features adn combination of those..like dance pad + motion sensor , as an example.

[Revfan9]

I do know taht the GPU is based off ATi's RV5A0 (or something like that)

Which has:

600MHz core clock
1400Mhz memory clock
512MB memory for "XT"
256MB memory for "pro"

off the top of my head.

[ToolPunk]

another thing is 512mb flash ram is not a lot, considering some N64 roms (games) are 64mb... would suck to have to redownload them all the time... unless nintendo's built in emulator can read .zip files :D

The Internal Flash Drive is 512MB and is expandable by an SD card which are in the Gigs now so space isn't an issue.

I have brought up the idea of playing our PC version of these classics several times since this info came out a long time ago. My theory is that if these games are to be stored on the Internal Flash Drive and you can use an SD card to expand the space then the only hurdle would be to figure out what format Nintendo uses with the games and find a way to convert our games into this format and load them from the SD Card. Sounds more simple then it probably is though.

On a side note, with the Internal 512MB Flash Drive, the fact that you can run stuff from the Internal 512MB Flash Drive, the ease of development, the similarities to the GC and backwards compatibilities I think that the Rev is just saying do what you will.

If you think about it, the system that made out on top the last time around was the system that was the easiest to Mod and Backup games for. Kind of funny don't you think? :rolleyes: